actually i haven't seen his list. im running a 2/1 split because thats what i have, and that in my mind is the best way to get the red source i need considering im only running 1 red card. and what kind of idiot taps himself out in a control deck to play their finisher? id cast it with support in hand. What i did see of the interview was the 1 iona and i happen to like that. instead of acting like a dick you may want to offer suggestions. do you find something wrong with the mana base if so what? dont like the list offer suggestions as to what you would replace.
This isn't the place for budget discussion. Don't post FNM decks with crap mana bases because you don't have the cards to make it better.
Obviously from my comments, your mana base should have 4/4 on fetches.
If you're paying 8 mana to play something in a control deck, you damn well better hope you don't need to leave two more mana open to protect it. Lorthos is terrible in traditional Control lists.
Statistically, he should have one red mana source every 10 cards (until he uses fetches), which means he should get his mountain by turn four each game. This is fine in theory, especially in Limited when trying to figure out lands per splash color, but one mulligan or a badly-shuffled deck can really screw you over in this case.
Statistically, he will get no red mana by turn 4 in many cases, 1 red mana in some cases, and 2-3 in the rest...
Basically, statiscally, you can be sure he will have trouble playing Ajani way too often. Mana is a biach in this game, playing it sure leads to more wins than playing risking too much.
I would run 4/4 fetches and 1 mountain with his deck at least, thats 9 posible red mana sources... then again, if someone destroys or puts an Spreding Seas in your only Mountain... you are toast. Probably a 4/4 split with 2 Mountains? or 3/3 Split with 3 Mountain? I don't know, many posibilities. All I'm sure off, is that just 6 posible red mana souces is too few in his deck, even with just 3 red spells. Specially when is so easy to get 2-3 more red sources without hurting the rest of your deck.
Statistically, he will get no red mana by turn 4 in many cases, 1 red mana in some cases, and 2-3 in the rest...
Basically, statiscally, you can be sure he will have trouble playing Ajani way too often. Mana is a biach in this game, playing it sure leads to more wins than playing risking too much.
Trust me, I'm not agreeing with how he built his mana base. I was just trying to be somewhat helpful without trolling him for not being able to afford eight fetches and other duals, even if this forum doesn't actually permit budget discussion and I wouldn't necessarily be wrong to do so.
Trust me, I'm not agreeing with how he built his mana base. I was just trying to be somewhat helpful without trolling him for not being able to afford eight fetches and other duals, even if this forum doesn't actually permit budget discussion and I wouldn't necessarily be wrong to do so.
I know, the reason for my answer is so he can see why we think his mana base could give him problems. And how easy it can be to fix it.
I'm pleasantly surprised. I expected most people in this thread to rip off/netdeck chapin's list almost card-for-card, but there hasn't been nearly as much bandwagon thinking yet.
Kudos
Regardless, hopefully UW's performance in San Diego earns the color combination a competitive thread, Lord knows it needs it (though not till after the Richmond Open! )
Speaking of jumping on the bandwagon, I was never really a fan of UW lists, I thought the red splash was superior, but having access to Halimar Depths and Tectonic Edge in the mana base is making me rethink that. I think you're right, in that UW will have better matchups across the board, although it's got less reliable win conditions. As far as Chapin's list, there's a couple of cards I wouldn't use (obviously they were meta calls), but I think I'll be sleeving up a similar list for testing.
Jace and Tectonic Edge really gave UW the extra oomph it needed to push it over the edge, I think. And as much as it pains me to say it, I even like Treasure Hunt in Chapin's list (shock, horror!)
I know, the reason for my answer is so he can see why we think his mana base could give him problems. And how easy it can be to fix it.
I don't know if there's already been an open discussion about this, but where do people weigh in on Lightning Bolt v. Burst Lightning?
Lightning Bolt Pros: Bolt always costs R. It always does 3, which is more than 2. It costs RR to kill a Baneslayer Angel with two Bolts. It's easier to Bolt and "Other" in the same turn. Bolt can kill a Great Sable Stag or Vampire Nighthawk for one mana.
Burst Lightning Pros: (And this is key) Flexibility. Burst can do 2 damage early, and 4 damage late. As Shock, it can do the tango with Putrid Leech just as well as Bolt, but once you hit 4R, you do the same dance, but have the option of just killing it no matter what. Burst deals with Garruk Wildspeaker and Ajani Vengeant much better than Bolt (killing them as opposed to wounding, assuming the opponent used the +1 ability). Burst can kill half of a Broodmate Dragon or a whole Raging Ravine (the second time it attacks, as Bolt can kill a Ravine the first time) or Stirring Wildwood. Also, 2 toughness creatures equipped with a Behemoth Sledge can be killed with Burst. And let us not forget that at the end of the game, 4 to the dome is 1 more than 3.
I suppose the real question is whether or not 4R is a large enough drawback to make us go for the Bolt. I suppose a mix of both, say a 3-2 or 3-1 split, could be optimal, but this is not generally true, as one card will prove to be more useful more of the time.
Edit: Assuming you are playing Everflowing Chalice, which you ought to be, the 4R gets a lot easier.
I think Burst Lightning is superior in my particular list. The only creatures that have caused me problems have been pro-white creatures and creatures that beat Sphinx in battle. For this reason, Burst Lightning and Mind Control are in and Sphinx and Essence Scatter are out. I have no idea how the FNM meta will look next week after people net deck Boss Naya, White Weenie and Bant, but Scepter/Day of Judgment is a blowout to all those decks and Naya and Bant can be seriously slowed down with mana disruption.
The only issue I'm mulling over is going 3 Negate and 3 Burst Lightning or 4 Negate and 2 O-Ring. With Basilisk Collar and equipments out I might want some O-rings. However, with man-lands Burst Lightning would be better. Also, to always have the Negate against Mind Sludge and Blightning seems like the safest decision.
I think Burst Lightning is superior in my particular list. The only creatures that have caused me problems have been pro-white creatures and creatures that beat Sphinx in battle. For this reason, Burst Lightning and Mind Control are in and Sphinx and Essence Scatter are out. I have no idea how the FNM meta will look next week after people net deck Boss Naya, White Weenie and Bant, but Scepter/Day of Judgment is a blowout to all those decks and Naya and Bant can be seriously slowed down with mana disruption.
Speaking of mana disruption, Seas + Scepter + Ajani is so elegant (Using Scepter to tap down lands during their upkeep). And Scepter + Ajani both deal with creatures, too.
Well, the core of the deck is Scepter/Ajani/DoJ. The rest of the deck is good card (Jace), answers, and cards that revolve around that core.
Spreading Seas is great disruption on it's own, and is a game ender if I have a Scepter and an Ajani out. It's great against any 3 color deck, even decks that run blue. It still does it's job against Vamps because they need double and triple black much of the time.
Scepter is great with Everflowing Chalice. T3 Ajani T4 Scepter T5 Jace/DoJ/Obelisk/Card Draw/anything really, T6 Jace/Martial Coup/Obelisk/DoJ.... The deck curves out very well.
Well, i am glad that you have taken the time to test the Burst Lightnings. I've modified my deck list and gonna test it against the new meta decks like Naya Boss or U/W Control and of course Jund.
I've cut Chandra as everytime i want to put it out on the board, i am already in a losing/winning board position, and most of the time it is always sitting in my hand.
He is so man, he is mario, and I will tell my opponents such. As and when I bounce their permanent I will exclaim "MARIO" as though he were stomped on by our mighty Jace. Every time someone kill him I will give them 99 USD (not AUS!!!) because their lightning bolt should cost 100 DOLLARS...
Jace even made it into the Teenage Super Hero Mutant Ninja Hero Turtles.
Worlds is going to make a lot of decks popular that use creatures that are highly susceptible to Lightning Bolt but shrug off early Burst Lightnings (Knight of the Reliquary, Wild Nacatl, Loam Lion, Great Sable Stag, Skyfisher, most WW creatures, and so forth). Those are not the sort of creatures you want to wait around until T5 (at least) to begin dealing with with spot removal.
The only things Burst Lightning is really better at killing are Bloodwitch (Wrath or Mind Control are both superior/more efficient here), War Monk (no home competitively), and Stirring Wildwood (I'll give it this one).
Lightning Bolt is the 2nd best removal spell in Standard (right behind Path to Exile). RWU needs it to survive early game, particularly with its mana base and fetchlands. That said, if you're running Everflowing Chalice, Burst Lightning may begin to look a bit more reasonable, but there's really only two decks that should be running that card-- Boros and RDW.
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Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Did a little testing tonight with a modified UW Mind Taker (Chapin's) List and noticed a few things:
-A little to counter heavy for an varied/unknown meta such as FNM.
-Like Chapin said, aggro red decks really have a strong advantage.
-Jace rarely ever dies, 4 is probably to many.
-Mill still kills us...lol.
After toying with some ideas, here is a new list to go forward with:
I added a Tezzeret to either power out mana off a Chalice, fetch up a Pithing Needle, or to give an alternate win condition (Chalice smash!). I expect to see Pithing Needles end up in a lot more Sideboards because it deals with Equipment, Planeswalkers, and Man-Lands. I like the deck as it gives a better match vs Vamps then Traditional UWr, but trades that for a less then stellar match up vs RDW/Boros. Overall, needs more testing until I will sign off on a final list.
I played in 2 tournaments this weekend; FNM and a Saturday Standard tournament. At FNM I went 3-1-1 (barely missed top 8 out of like 40 people, I think I got 9th) and on Saturday I went 3-0-1 in swiss but was then knocked out round 1 in Top 8.
So that's a 6-2-2 record over a span of those tournaments. My losses were to Jacerator, which this deck cannot reliably beat at all, and an RDW variant where I get mana screwed game 1 and he lands back to back to back Goblin Ruinblaster Game 3. One of my ties was an ID, while the other was against Jacerator (He couldn't answer luminarch ascension in time for Game 2.)
Hi guys, it's the list i've been working on for a little time. I would ran UWr at Regionals (in France) but UW seems better. Ajani and Bolts are awesome but since UW can run Techtonic Egde and a manabase with 4 Colonnade and 4 Halimars without problems, it is more attractive. Plus I don't think Chalice is good enough in UWr.
@Bankai : I have also compared my deck to UW one to take some trick and I really think Iona could have a place in the deck as a one-of to finish games radically. In my test as a 1-of she is fine with and without Chalices.
I tested the Chalices/Martial Coup package and I'm not a great fan of those in UWr since the deck is more color heavy. I think they are pretty good in UW but not for us.
For me your list is a UW list splashing red for Ajani and It seems weaker than a straight UW. Tezzeret is a bad random slot for me.
I really thinking of running UW and I want to know what to do you think about that ?
My deck have pretty good results against Vamp/Midrange decks but I have some difficulties against Jund and heavy problems against Heavy burn and Combos Decks (like everybody :p). I maindecked more early removal for Heavy Burn and added more Flashfreeze SB for Naya/Jund. Oblivion Ring in MD/SB are a bit slow but great against so many deck actually.
I prefer Double Negative over Cancel because I don't have so much problems to cast it and it can counters BBElf and Cascade which both are present in Jund and New Naya decks.
I need some advices for the SB, and it is possible to consider Telemin Performance as a 1 or 2-of, Relic of Progenitus ?
I think Performance will become a much more relevent card if UW starts running rampant in your meta. Ironicly it also helps in that dreaded Mill match up. I am also deciding if the 4 Spreading Seas in my SB can be swaped for 1 Pthining Needle, 1 Performance, 2 Mind Control and still be effective. Man lands seem like a big problem and Tectonic Edge just doesn't fit into a Red splash.
Though 4 Tectonic, 4 Ajani, and 4 Seas seems like one heck of a mana denial package...
Did a little testing tonight with a modified UW Mind Taker (Chapin's) List and noticed a few things:
-A little to counter heavy for an varied/unknown meta such as FNM.
-Like Chapin said, aggro red decks really have a strong advantage.
-Jace rarely ever dies, 4 is probably to many.
-Mill still kills us...lol.
After toying with some ideas, here is a new list to go forward with:
I added a Tezzeret to either power out mana off a Chalice, fetch up a Pithing Needle, or to give an alternate win condition (Chalice smash!). I expect to see Pithing Needles end up in a lot more Sideboards because it deals with Equipment, Planeswalkers, and Man-Lands. I like the deck as it gives a better match vs Vamps then Traditional UWr, but trades that for a less then stellar match up vs RDW/Boros. Overall, needs more testing until I will sign off on a final list.
What, are we allowed to discuss UW in this thread now?
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Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Well, assuming we can talk about it as mods haven't issued out any warnings...
I'm very seriously thinking about playing the UW deck at the Worldwake Game Day tournament. Has anyone tested it seriously yet? I'm worried about getting overrun by crappy aggro decks. Even this deck's good match-ups seem like a grind. Admittedly, I have yet to play a single game with Chapin's deck, so I do apologize if my assumptions are completely off-base.
Did a little testing tonight with a modified UW Mind Taker (Chapin's) List and noticed a few things:
-A little to counter heavy for an varied/unknown meta such as FNM.
-Like Chapin said, aggro red decks really have a strong advantage.
-Jace rarely ever dies, 4 is probably to many.
-Mill still kills us...lol.
After toying with some ideas, here is a new list to go forward with:
I added a Tezzeret to either power out mana off a Chalice, fetch up a Pithing Needle, or to give an alternate win condition (Chalice smash!). I expect to see Pithing Needles end up in a lot more Sideboards because it deals with Equipment, Planeswalkers, and Man-Lands. I like the deck as it gives a better match vs Vamps then Traditional UWr, but trades that for a less then stellar match up vs RDW/Boros. Overall, needs more testing until I will sign off on a final list.
I don't think the R splash is worth it if Vengeant is your only R card left in the deck. He's a great card and all, but the strength of going straight UW is that you gain access to some powerful lands that you can't afford to use in UWr. By splashing red for Vengeant, you're forced to use mountains + more fetchlands in order to meet your mana requirements for Ajani, and although he's one of the best Planeswalkers available at the moment, I don't think it's worth the sacrifice to the lands you can get. If you're going with a red splash, you might as well keep in Bolts etc, rather than having UW with Ajani Splash.
I've tried Baneslayer, but I think Firewalker is better when I need to square off with any red deck, and it can't be terminated. Smother yes, but black should roll over to this deck anyhow.
I'm not sure, but I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's a very similar deck.
A lot of people wanted to even before Chapin's list (my inbox gets PMs daily about); now it seems to have people chomping at the bit. I just want some sort of nod from a mod just be on the safe side.
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Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
A lot of people wanted to even before Chapin's list (my inbox gets PMs daily about); now it seems to have people chomping at the bit. I just want some sort of nod from a mod just be on the safe side.
I agree. Can't we just message a mod with Chapin's and Nassif's Standard record from the PT with a list and a request for a new thread? I think that's how it works.
A lot of people wanted to even before Chapin's list (my inbox gets PMs daily about); now it seems to have people chomping at the bit. I just want some sort of nod from a mod just be on the safe side.
We're in the process of converting to the new meta now. It just takes a few days. For now, we might as well discuss the UW Chapin list here for now. We will probably be having sub-forums for all the Competitive archetypes, so UW and UWr will probably share a sub. For the next few days, we might as well discuss this here.
That is my build for now. I know the sideboard is missing 'Slayers, and I will put them in in due course. The reason this build seems kind of hap-hazard is that it was built the morning before a tournament, on zero hours of sleep. It ran pretty well, and managed to go 2-2, evening beating Jacerator 2-0. The QforAS were in their against Runeflare and Jacerator, but the Jacerator deck is dismantled now, so they can leave.
The MB Twincasts are proving AMAZING. It's a counterspell (effectively) against a Control MU, even a Mirror. And you blast a removal spell back at them, or double your bolt to take out their Planeswalker.
The AddyAngels are an interesting choice, but I have never had a game go long enough to get them out or use them, which is disappointing.
The four Luminarchs are a lot, and I am thinking about cutting them down to 2-3 or maybe even 1-2 with an extra on the SB. they do win games once online.
The MB Flashfreezes are a bit annoying as one of the metagames I play in has very little Jund, but when I do come up against Jund, I dominate.
Opinions and tips are very wlecome, and changes will be considered. (:
What, are we allowed to discuss UW in this thread now?
After UW Mind Taker's amazing success (76% wins) and UWr struggles (44% wins), shift in philosphy may be necessary. I think a strong UWr list can come out of Chapin's list, becuase it provides us with a solid base.
As you can see from my list, I heart Ajani Vengeant and I wan't the list to stay UWr. But I cannot just blindly ignore such outstanding sucess.
The simple switch between the lists is to add Vengeant and Lightning Bolt (or just Ajani like mine) in place of the four Chalices and a few counters. Pretty sure that is about all that can be afforded to be swapped to make it UWr.
@Moruk: That is exactly where I am right now. Stuck between the sheer game changing power of Ajani and the consistency of UW manabase. I felt that the UW Mind Taker list was really threat light and extremely vulnerable to Pithing Needle (which should see a ton more play now with Equipment, Man-lands, and Jace) so I added in Ajani. The Helix on Vengeant also gets you out of some tight spots against Aggro that the UW list struggles with. I also feel that Ajani is better then the Tectonic Edges in the Vampires, Elfdrazi, RDW, Boros, and White Weenie matchups.
This isn't the place for budget discussion. Don't post FNM decks with crap mana bases because you don't have the cards to make it better.
Obviously from my comments, your mana base should have 4/4 on fetches.
If you're paying 8 mana to play something in a control deck, you damn well better hope you don't need to leave two more mana open to protect it. Lorthos is terrible in traditional Control lists.
Statistically, he will get no red mana by turn 4 in many cases, 1 red mana in some cases, and 2-3 in the rest...
Basically, statiscally, you can be sure he will have trouble playing Ajani way too often. Mana is a biach in this game, playing it sure leads to more wins than playing risking too much.
I would run 4/4 fetches and 1 mountain with his deck at least, thats 9 posible red mana sources... then again, if someone destroys or puts an Spreding Seas in your only Mountain... you are toast. Probably a 4/4 split with 2 Mountains? or 3/3 Split with 3 Mountain? I don't know, many posibilities. All I'm sure off, is that just 6 posible red mana souces is too few in his deck, even with just 3 red spells. Specially when is so easy to get 2-3 more red sources without hurting the rest of your deck.
Trust me, I'm not agreeing with how he built his mana base. I was just trying to be somewhat helpful without trolling him for not being able to afford eight fetches and other duals, even if this forum doesn't actually permit budget discussion and I wouldn't necessarily be wrong to do so.
I know, the reason for my answer is so he can see why we think his mana base could give him problems. And how easy it can be to fix it.
Speaking of jumping on the bandwagon, I was never really a fan of UW lists, I thought the red splash was superior, but having access to Halimar Depths and Tectonic Edge in the mana base is making me rethink that. I think you're right, in that UW will have better matchups across the board, although it's got less reliable win conditions. As far as Chapin's list, there's a couple of cards I wouldn't use (obviously they were meta calls), but I think I'll be sleeving up a similar list for testing.
Jace and Tectonic Edge really gave UW the extra oomph it needed to push it over the edge, I think. And as much as it pains me to say it, I even like Treasure Hunt in Chapin's list (shock, horror!)
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
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I don't know if there's already been an open discussion about this, but where do people weigh in on Lightning Bolt v. Burst Lightning?
Lightning Bolt
Pros: Bolt always costs R. It always does 3, which is more than 2. It costs RR to kill a Baneslayer Angel with two Bolts. It's easier to Bolt and "Other" in the same turn. Bolt can kill a Great Sable Stag or Vampire Nighthawk for one mana.
Burst Lightning
Pros: (And this is key) Flexibility. Burst can do 2 damage early, and 4 damage late. As Shock, it can do the tango with Putrid Leech just as well as Bolt, but once you hit 4R, you do the same dance, but have the option of just killing it no matter what. Burst deals with Garruk Wildspeaker and Ajani Vengeant much better than Bolt (killing them as opposed to wounding, assuming the opponent used the +1 ability). Burst can kill half of a Broodmate Dragon or a whole Raging Ravine (the second time it attacks, as Bolt can kill a Ravine the first time) or Stirring Wildwood. Also, 2 toughness creatures equipped with a Behemoth Sledge can be killed with Burst. And let us not forget that at the end of the game, 4 to the dome is 1 more than 3.
I suppose the real question is whether or not 4R is a large enough drawback to make us go for the Bolt. I suppose a mix of both, say a 3-2 or 3-1 split, could be optimal, but this is not generally true, as one card will prove to be more useful more of the time.
Edit: Assuming you are playing Everflowing Chalice, which you ought to be, the 4R gets a lot easier.
The only issue I'm mulling over is going 3 Negate and 3 Burst Lightning or 4 Negate and 2 O-Ring. With Basilisk Collar and equipments out I might want some O-rings. However, with man-lands Burst Lightning would be better. Also, to always have the Negate against Mind Sludge and Blightning seems like the safest decision.
Speaking of mana disruption, Seas + Scepter + Ajani is so elegant (Using Scepter to tap down lands during their upkeep). And Scepter + Ajani both deal with creatures, too.
Well, i am glad that you have taken the time to test the Burst Lightnings. I've modified my deck list and gonna test it against the new meta decks like Naya Boss or U/W Control and of course Jund.
I've cut Chandra as everytime i want to put it out on the board, i am already in a losing/winning board position, and most of the time it is always sitting in my hand.
Here is the list :
4x Arid Mesa
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Celestial Colonnade
3x Island
3x Mountain
4x Plains
4x Burst Lightning
3x Day of Judgment
1x Martial Coup
1x Mind Spring
1x Earthquake
4x Spreading Seas
4x Everflowing Chalice
3x Courier's Capsule
3x Scepter of Dominance
3x Ajani Vengeant
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Celestial Purge
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Essence Scatter
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Obelisk of Alara
1 Banefire
1 Pithing Needle
1 Mind Control
The only things Burst Lightning is really better at killing are Bloodwitch (Wrath or Mind Control are both superior/more efficient here), War Monk (no home competitively), and Stirring Wildwood (I'll give it this one).
Lightning Bolt is the 2nd best removal spell in Standard (right behind Path to Exile). RWU needs it to survive early game, particularly with its mana base and fetchlands. That said, if you're running Everflowing Chalice, Burst Lightning may begin to look a bit more reasonable, but there's really only two decks that should be running that card-- Boros and RDW.
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-A little to counter heavy for an varied/unknown meta such as FNM.
-Like Chapin said, aggro red decks really have a strong advantage.
-Jace rarely ever dies, 4 is probably to many.
-Mill still kills us...lol.
After toying with some ideas, here is a new list to go forward with:
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Halimar Depths
3 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Plains
3 Island
2 Mountain
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Ajani Vengeant
1 Tezzeret, the Seeker
2 Essence Scatter
1 Negate
3 Day of Judgment
2 Martial Coup
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Path to Exile
3 Treasure Hunt
2 Mind Spring
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Baneslayer Angel
4 Kor Firewalker
1 Day of Judgment
2 Flash Freeze
2 Negate
2 Pithing Needle
I added a Tezzeret to either power out mana off a Chalice, fetch up a Pithing Needle, or to give an alternate win condition (Chalice smash!). I expect to see Pithing Needles end up in a lot more Sideboards because it deals with Equipment, Planeswalkers, and Man-Lands. I like the deck as it gives a better match vs Vamps then Traditional UWr, but trades that for a less then stellar match up vs RDW/Boros. Overall, needs more testing until I will sign off on a final list.
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
4 Mountain
2 Plains
3 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
4 Wall of Denial
3 Ajani Vengeant
1 Chandra Nalaar
2 Scepter of Dominance
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Earthquake
3 Essence Scatter
3 Negate
3 Courier's Capsule
2 Mysteries of the Deep
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Luminarch Ascension
2 Flashfreeze
2 Mind Control
2 Celestial Purge
3 Day of Judgment
So that's a 6-2-2 record over a span of those tournaments. My losses were to Jacerator, which this deck cannot reliably beat at all, and an RDW variant where I get mana screwed game 1 and he lands back to back to back Goblin Ruinblaster Game 3. One of my ties was an ID, while the other was against Jacerator (He couldn't answer luminarch ascension in time for Game 2.)
I think Performance will become a much more relevent card if UW starts running rampant in your meta. Ironicly it also helps in that dreaded Mill match up. I am also deciding if the 4 Spreading Seas in my SB can be swaped for 1 Pthining Needle, 1 Performance, 2 Mind Control and still be effective. Man lands seem like a big problem and Tectonic Edge just doesn't fit into a Red splash.
Though 4 Tectonic, 4 Ajani, and 4 Seas seems like one heck of a mana denial package...
What, are we allowed to discuss UW in this thread now?
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"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi."
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I'm not sure, but I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's a very similar deck.
I'm very seriously thinking about playing the UW deck at the Worldwake Game Day tournament. Has anyone tested it seriously yet? I'm worried about getting overrun by crappy aggro decks. Even this deck's good match-ups seem like a grind. Admittedly, I have yet to play a single game with Chapin's deck, so I do apologize if my assumptions are completely off-base.
I don't think the R splash is worth it if Vengeant is your only R card left in the deck. He's a great card and all, but the strength of going straight UW is that you gain access to some powerful lands that you can't afford to use in UWr. By splashing red for Vengeant, you're forced to use mountains + more fetchlands in order to meet your mana requirements for Ajani, and although he's one of the best Planeswalkers available at the moment, I don't think it's worth the sacrifice to the lands you can get. If you're going with a red splash, you might as well keep in Bolts etc, rather than having UW with Ajani Splash.
Just my two cents, anyway.
It's still a UWr list, technically
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
[other][32]
4 Path to Exile
3 Ajani Vengeant
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Treasure Hunt
4 Ponder
2 Hindering Light
2 Day of Judgment
4 Double Negative
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Negate
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
5 Mountain
2 Plains
2 Arid Mesa
2 Halimar Depths
3 Pithing Needle
3 Meddling Mage
3 Celestial Purge
1 Hindering Light
1 Day of Judgment
4 Kor Firewalker
I've tried Baneslayer, but I think Firewalker is better when I need to square off with any red deck, and it can't be terminated. Smother yes, but black should roll over to this deck anyhow.
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A lot of people wanted to even before Chapin's list (my inbox gets PMs daily about); now it seems to have people chomping at the bit. I just want some sort of nod from a mod just be on the safe side.
Sig by ChibiSwan~!
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi."
Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
I agree. Can't we just message a mod with Chapin's and Nassif's Standard record from the PT with a list and a request for a new thread? I think that's how it works.
We're in the process of converting to the new meta now. It just takes a few days. For now, we might as well discuss the UW Chapin list here for now. We will probably be having sub-forums for all the Competitive archetypes, so UW and UWr will probably share a sub. For the next few days, we might as well discuss this here.
2x Admonition Angel
3x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Other Spells: 33
1x Double Negative
2x Twincast
2x Flashfreeze
3x Path to Exile
1x Mysteries of the Deep
3x Essence Scatter
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Earthquake
1x Mind Spring
1x Day of Judgment
1x Courier's Capsule
2x Spreading Seas
4x Luminarch Ascension
3x Ajani Vengeant
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3x Halimar Depths
2x Glacial Fortress
3x Celestial Colonnade
5x Island
3x Mountain
2x Plains
2x Arid Mesa
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Negate
2x Day of Judgment
2x Convincing Mirage
2x Quest for Ancient Secrets
1x Path to Exile
2x Kor Firewalker
2x Flashfreeze
2x Spreading Seas
That is my build for now. I know the sideboard is missing 'Slayers, and I will put them in in due course. The reason this build seems kind of hap-hazard is that it was built the morning before a tournament, on zero hours of sleep. It ran pretty well, and managed to go 2-2, evening beating Jacerator 2-0. The QforAS were in their against Runeflare and Jacerator, but the Jacerator deck is dismantled now, so they can leave.
The MB Twincasts are proving AMAZING. It's a counterspell (effectively) against a Control MU, even a Mirror. And you blast a removal spell back at them, or double your bolt to take out their Planeswalker.
The AddyAngels are an interesting choice, but I have never had a game go long enough to get them out or use them, which is disappointing.
The four Luminarchs are a lot, and I am thinking about cutting them down to 2-3 or maybe even 1-2 with an extra on the SB. they do win games once online.
The MB Flashfreezes are a bit annoying as one of the metagames I play in has very little Jund, but when I do come up against Jund, I dominate.
Opinions and tips are very wlecome, and changes will be considered. (:
After UW Mind Taker's amazing success (76% wins) and UWr struggles (44% wins), shift in philosphy may be necessary. I think a strong UWr list can come out of Chapin's list, becuase it provides us with a solid base.
As you can see from my list, I heart Ajani Vengeant and I wan't the list to stay UWr. But I cannot just blindly ignore such outstanding sucess.
The simple switch between the lists is to add Vengeant and Lightning Bolt (or just Ajani like mine) in place of the four Chalices and a few counters. Pretty sure that is about all that can be afforded to be swapped to make it UWr.
@Moruk: That is exactly where I am right now. Stuck between the sheer game changing power of Ajani and the consistency of UW manabase. I felt that the UW Mind Taker list was really threat light and extremely vulnerable to Pithing Needle (which should see a ton more play now with Equipment, Man-lands, and Jace) so I added in Ajani. The Helix on Vengeant also gets you out of some tight spots against Aggro that the UW list struggles with. I also feel that Ajani is better then the Tectonic Edges in the Vampires, Elfdrazi, RDW, Boros, and White Weenie matchups.
Because I don't think anyone has actually posted Chapin's full list...
For reference:
2 Arid Mesa
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Halimar Depths
3 Island
4 Plains
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Tectonic Edge
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Everflowing Chalice
1 Negate
2 Flashfreeze
2 Essence Scatter
4 Cancel
1 Path to Exile
1 Celestial Purge
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Day of Judgment
2 Martial Coup
4 Treasure Hunt
2 Mind Spring
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Essence Scatter
2 Flashfreeze
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Mind Control
2 Negate
1 Perimeter Captain
1 Plains