I hope some people begin to listen to me, now. UW has all of RWU's strengths (and more) and none of its weaknesses.
Oh, and Jazzy may be pleased to know it has 4 Everflowing Chalice's in it (I still hate the card, however).
I saw the deck tech and thought the deck was really interesting. Its sole wincon is Jace, but I guess Coup or Manlands could get there. I tweeked it up a bit and cut all the Red except for Ajani Vengeant and Lightning Bolt. Went creatureless (still thinking of adding the single Iona) and use the walkers to win. It plays really freaking slow, but it gets there. I think Pithing Needle is really gonna hurt the deck, but lucky for us its not played that often!
For those considering playing Chapin's UW deck in tournaments, just remember that Pro Tour rounds are longer than the rounds in any other tournament. This actually is relevant when you have so few main deck win conditions, especially if you end up going to time in Game Three.
I'm certainly not telling you to not play the deck, just make sure you can play it well (duh) and in a timely manner and you should be fine.
I hope some people begin to listen to me, now. UW has all of RWU's strengths (and more) and none of its weaknesses.
Oh, and Jazzy may be pleased to know it has 4 Everflowing Chalice's in it (I still hate the card, however).
Yeah, in fact I am pleased. I seriously missed Everflowing Chalice last night. The games that I lost were way too hard to take control of and would have really helped to have had it.
As for the matches I faced, it went like this:
Match 1: Esper aggro/midrange? Yeah this was really rough, I just got unlucky. If I had the Everflowing Chalice here I could have disrupted his mana and kept up with him. He built up his dudes and just before I was going to wrath the board he would always Tidehollow Sculler my DoJ and sac it with the trigger on the stack using Thopter Foundry. That was rough. I had to mull to 5 and a 2 land hand the second game and he Esper Charm'd and Sculler'd my answers. I got to 7 mana and had a hand consisting of Land, Martial Coup, DoJ and Negate. If I had chosen DoJ I would have counter'd his Countersquall and been stabilized but I chose the Coup and didn't get past his countersquall. Just a bad start for me, the deck and the night in general.
Match 2: Vamps. I lost game one because I was too slow and he mindsludged me. Here I missed Everflowing Chalice because I would have had enough extra mana to counter and keep answering his threats. Games 2 and 3 I totally dominated, it wasn't even close. I sided out Sphinxes and put in Obelisks but never needed them. I burned him out with Ajani, negated his Tendrils and Earthquaked for the win both games.
Match 3: Some janky GWR Manabarbs with ramp. Both games were just me burning him out with Ajani and countering his bombs.
Match 4: The Vamps player that got his mindsludge swerved back at him last week. He was pretty pissed about last week to say the least. This time he mainboarded Tectonic Edge, and 4 Black Knights and 4 Pithing Needles came in from the side. Both games were just me playing incorrectly around Tectonic Edge and him beating down with pro-white guys while he kept me off red mana by naming Arid Mesa with Pithing Needles (I drew three mesas in a row after he named it)
Match 5: Won both games against my friend's B/R Persecutor aggro deck. His deck just wasn't prepared for me and I answered his threats, gained life and Obelisk sealed the deal.
When I come back to this deck I'm going to keep 4 Everflowing Chalice's in the main. It's just really annoying to be so slow.
EDIT: After watching Patrick Chapin's deck tech, I'm extremely thrilled to see him come to some of the same conclusions. He cut Sphinx completely. I wouldn't say that Everflowing Chalice is better than Mindstone, but it's definitely going back in my deck.
I actually might put in Mind Controls instead of Sphinx's. Stealing a Bloodwitch, Thrinax, Persecutor, Baneslayer or anything really, is amazing. People in my meta are starting to run those cards more and more and having Mind Control seems awesome, and I'll still have counters for other control deck's Sphinx's.
EDIT 2 (no posting so I'll just keep editing this post if nobody minds):
Yeah, I'm in love with it and can't wait to play with it when I come back to the deck in about 2 weeks. I want to play some Siege-Gangs and Chandras a couple times before I bring the deck back to FNM. I want to fit in more Jace too, since he's the best card in standard. I'll make it work.
I am not sure I like the idea of not having any spot removal! this seems like a bad idea. Bolt, path, o-ring, journey, or w/e. All wrath effects seems slow, and what do you do if you don't get ever flowing chalice? Cheap spot removal seems mandatory in this meta. Also, more Jace Mindsculptors would be a good idea. Apparently this deck wants between 2 and 4 of them.
P.S. way to ninja edit out the essense scatters for lightning bolts!
And yeah I noticed that since I have Mind Control, I don't need Scatters so in come Lightning Bolts/Paths/O-rings (still deciding which one I like better).
I plan on fitting some more Jace in some how and if I don't get a Chalice, I just play it out. The game will be slower, but not impossible because the deck isn't totally reliant on it. However, Chalice does improve the deck overall because I can lock down the game quick and stabilize fast.
@ your ninja edit: I wouldn't drop a Scepter, but I would drop an Obelisk or both of them, since they do the same thing, which is get me out of tight spots or completely take the game over. Jace just costs less.
I went 3-0 then drew against a mirror then immidiatly got defeated by valakut ramp. On my last round, the winner would of made it into the top8. Unfortunatly, I lost against grixis control.
If I could go back in time, I would cut the one mysteries of the deep for an additionnal negate main and the old jace for a fourth new one. 6 of the 7 players I played against were playing blue. I believe there was more jace the mindsculptor at the event than players (which is getting closer to BBE!). There was ALOT of blue decks running spreading sees so I would up my mountain count to 3.
I saw the deck tech and thought the deck was really interesting. Its sole wincon is Jace, but I guess Coup or Manlands could get there. I tweeked it up a bit and cut all the Red except for Ajani Vengeant and Lightning Bolt. Went creatureless (still thinking of adding the single Iona) and use the walkers to win. It plays really freaking slow, but it gets there. I think Pithing Needle is really gonna hurt the deck, but lucky for us its not played that often!
Hi, i see that you are running lightning bolts instead of burst lightnings in your list. Is Lightning Bolt proved to be better than Burst Lightning most of the time in this deck ? Since with 4 Everflowing Chalice you are almost able to kick it most of the time, it deals with Malakir Bloodwitch as well.
He is so man, he is mario, and I will tell my opponents such. As and when I bounce their permanent I will exclaim "MARIO" as though he were stomped on by our mighty Jace. Every time someone kill him I will give them 99 USD (not AUS!!!) because their lightning bolt should cost 100 DOLLARS...
Jace even made it into the Teenage Super Hero Mutant Ninja Hero Turtles.
Hi, i see that you are running lightning bolts instead of burst lightnings in your list. Is Lightning Bolt proved to be better than Burst Lightning most of the time in this deck ? Since with 4 Everflowing Chalice you are almost able to kick it most of the time, it deals with Malakir Bloodwitch as well.
It is something I have to think about, and test so only time will tell.
first, on calcite snapper: i love having him over wall of denial. being able to attack at all is nice - but potentially swinging for 4 early in the game is big. being able to take out an x/4 that's swinging at you (with clever play of fetches, natch) is also good. it's also great when your opponent forgets he has shroud...
it's also nice to be able to win without activating the ultimates on either of your planeswalkers. the one time i actually got ajani up to 7 counters, my opponent was at 12, had no blockers, and was staring down a sphinx and a switched-on snapper. jace never got above 5 counters all night, as i was freestorming my way into the cards i needed. obviously, using the snapper changes the mindset of how you have to play the deck, as going ultimate is not important.
treasure hunt won me a game by sparing me from drawing eight consecutive lands, only three of which i knew about.
r1: vs. the goblin annoyance, WWK version:
g1: after a lot of back and forth, we're both at low life totals. with no defense in my hand anyway, i tap out to drop a sphinx and i get double bolted for my heresy.
g2: oops, you can't burst lightning my snapper with 2 damage on him after blocking. sorry! comet storm, ajani and sphinx take it from here.
g3: with one snapper on board, he swings through with a guide, a raging gobbo, and two (!) instigators. with DoJ in hand and mana on board to cast, i reveal a land and block the guide. he only drops one goblin from the four triggers, but it was a chieftain. never fear, he wasn't slow-rolling; he had no dudes left in hand. DoJ and two planeswalkers later, and the goblins are toast.
for the record, the poor guy didn't see any of his SGCs in all three games - i didn't even realize he had them until i saw him play one in his next round match - so i may have caught a bit of dumb luck here.
r2: vs. WGB reliquary with abyssal persecutor
g1: my nuts hand against him >>> his nuts hand, since every creature he tried to play died quickly. ajani screws him off green long enough to threaten the ultimate, but i had dudes on board already (-2 helix FTW).
g2: two BSA's show up to the party. unfortunately, they weren't mine. by the time i get rid of the bums, i'm at 6 and he's well over 30. he drops persecutor, which i can't answer, and swings me to 0. his o-ring meets a negate. i had another negate in hand next turn, but he baited me with an elspeth, and i stupidly bit. in retrospect, this was actually a GOOD move, as we went to time in...
g3: he gets savagely color screwed, but it took me more time than i'd have liked to assemble the win. i win on turn 3 of extras.
r3: vs. mirror, but the version most of you guys play
g1: can't path the snapper, snapperhead. my opponent quickly realizes that my two snappers beat his one WoD, and that he's sorely underestimated the value of swinging for 4... especially after i counter his 'quake for 4.
g2: i get some early snapper beats in (and he realizes he punted by not siding out his PtE's), but he DoJ's to kill the lonely snapper. a few turns later, he taps out of counter range to drop a sphinx; i martial coup for 6 dudes. he drops a WoD, i drop my own sphinx and proceed to smash face.
r4: vs. white weenie (we ID'ed as the only 3-0's but played two games anyway)
g1: i keep a questionable two-land hand with a halimar depths and a fetch. i t1 halimar to see a hunt, a counter, and jace. that's an express to frowntown for me.
g2: i own the board all game. i dropped turn 3 snapper, turn 4 ajani, turn 5 jace. freestorming every turn from turn 5 and "wasting" the ajani on helixes with another in hand, along with the rest of my hand, finally grinds the weenie train to a halt, and he scoops.
i very much so like your list. one card i do not agree with, however, is comet storm. don't see the point of it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
But control never dies; it simply adapts and becomes a different machine. The icy grip will never let go.
It is something I have to think about, and test so only time will tell.
Yes, please do as so far i prefer to see a Burst Lightning instead of Lightning Bolt. Also, does the Scepter of Dominance really do well ? I always find it slow most of the time.
Perhaps i wasn't playing it with Spreading Sea to control the mana bases along w Scepter. Somehow, i don't like playing Spreading Sea as it sucks to draw into one when you need actual answers. I understand that it cycle itself but space are really limited in the deck.
He is so man, he is mario, and I will tell my opponents such. As and when I bounce their permanent I will exclaim "MARIO" as though he were stomped on by our mighty Jace. Every time someone kill him I will give them 99 USD (not AUS!!!) because their lightning bolt should cost 100 DOLLARS...
Jace even made it into the Teenage Super Hero Mutant Ninja Hero Turtles.
ok guys, I am taking a bit different approach to RWU control. I have been testing with this build and in the final preparations to taking it to the 5k. I will post it here to see what you guys think.
So yea I took a more or less "creature-less" planeswalker heavy type of build. Using cancel as a catch all. Also using negates in the sense that most creatures really wont be much of a bother really. However it is the spells that are a killer. Pulse, Ultimatum, other counters, other planeswalker. All can be a major hindrance.
So the play style in mind is to take takes some hits and what not until a stabilization can happen with ajani wall or day/coup. Once this deck stabalizes it gets a hold of the game very quickly with Jace and ajani with wall support for them. Ive included the wall of denial as what it quote reads, Time to think. It is there to slow down attacking decks and allow me to think things through. Also allows them to over extend into a day of judgment.
Deft duelists got removed from my past build because 2/1 unfortantley is not standing up to this standard. I tested the snapper and for this build he just does not fit the gameplan. I want to be able to use the walls to provide me time but also protection post wrath from like a baneslayer.
In all honesty I don't care about lifegain. Seriously I have brought down a naya deck from 132 life. The only life I would care about is the untouchable life totals that is absurd to obtain with standard tier decks atm.
Singleton Elsepth and Chandra are there for catch alls , and they have been just awesome. Elspeth and Jace and just so strong together. Chandra can provide an extra 10 damage or rid the field of a bothersome creature.
Win cons come from Jace, The man land with or without an elspeth pump, or Martial Coup. Ajani is there to gain life but can also set up a destroy all land plot follow up by a martial coup.
Mysteries of the deep was very nice but I needed a bit more reliable draw, hence the courier's capsule. I am not using treasure hunt because I am still not a fan of that card. It is still a wild card. Look at one of the twitters on about the pro tour. 2 treasure hunts both revealed non land card on the first reveal, when land was needed. Not to mention I don't like revealing my secrets.
---
Sorry about the read guys but yea I have been wracking my brain on this and just getting ready for my first 5k.
Yes, please do as so far i prefer to see a Burst Lightning instead of Lightning Bolt. Also, does the Scepter of Dominance really do well ? I always find it slow most of the time.
Perhaps i wasn't playing it with Spreading Sea to control the mana bases along w Scepter. Somehow, i don't like playing Spreading Sea as it sucks to draw into one when you need actual answers. I understand that it cycle itself but space are really limited in the deck.
Well, the core of the deck is Scepter/Ajani/DoJ. The rest of the deck is good card (Jace), answers, and cards that revolve around that core.
Spreading Seas is great disruption on it's own, and is a game ender if I have a Scepter and an Ajani out. It's great against any 3 color deck, even decks that run blue. It still does it's job against Vamps because they need double and triple black much of the time.
Scepter is great with Everflowing Chalice. T3 Ajani T4 Scepter T5 Jace/DoJ/Obelisk/Card Draw/anything really, T6 Jace/Martial Coup/Obelisk/DoJ.... The deck curves out very well.
i very much so like your list. one card i do not agree with, however, is comet storm. don't see the point of it.
thanks, i can't take credit for the list, but i had an instant desire to play this when i saw it.
anyway, re: comet storm - ordinarily, you'd play earthquake in this spot. if your earthquake has to be X >= 4, it can kill your snappers - or, worse, yourself. i find when i play this deck that my life total at end of game is in the 4-6 range, and not dying to someone's mised lightning bolt, consume spirit, etc. seems like a good plan. both comet storm and earthquake can be used for the final kill - but comet storm doesn't threaten to kill YOU along with your opponent. too many decks run lightning bolt now to play around.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Now playing Transformers: Legends. 27-time top tier finisher and admin of the TFL Wikia site.
Yeah, so I am replacing the 2 Obelisks with 1 Jesus and 1 Iona. I came to the same conclusion as Chapin did for Sphinx, that if I'm casting it when I have 8 or 9 mana anyway it might as well be Iona. Not going as crazy on Jace as he did though.
I'm pleasantly surprised. I expected most people in this thread to rip off/netdeck chapin's list almost card-for-card, but there hasn't been nearly as much bandwagon thinking yet.
Kudos
Regardless, hopefully UW's performance in San Diego earns the color combination a competitive thread, Lord knows it needs it (though not till after the Richmond Open! )
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig by ChibiSwan~!
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi." Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
I'm pleasantly surprised. I expected most people in this thread to rip off/netdeck chapin's list almost card-for-card, but there hasn't been nearly as much bandwagon thinking yet.
Kudos
Regardless, hopefully UW's performance in San Diego earns the color combination a competitive thread, Lord knows it needs it (though not till after the Richmond Open! )
I too am hoping for a UW thread soon; or at least a UWx thread again.
I went 3-2 Friday; a bit underwhelming. The two rounds I lost were not surprising though: Vamps and Jund. Everything else was a one-sided slaughter!
r1 UWb Mirror-ish (2-0): He "splashed" B for Esper Charm (I love that card) and Persecutor (not such a splash). If the mana wasn't so clunky, it seems like it could work; he runs Into the Roil to bounce, and that, along with Jace, PtE, and DoJ can get his Persecutor off of the board fairly consistently. Luckily, I hit Jace AND Ajani both games to keep him off of needed cards and to mess with his mana even more. RWU is much more solid. Snapepr wtw g1!!
r2 WWg (2-0): I saw this list the night before (or at least one like it) running Stoneforge Mystic + Collar/Sledge and a lot of W beats, but I just mowed threw him. I was worried that he may be able to recover since his equipment stayed after I swept, but this was just not the case. Spreading Seas was an MVP here, seeing 2 g1 and 3 g2. Snapper was also a BOMB!!!
r3 Vamps (0-2): Ugh. I don't want to spend much time reliving this. Let's just say that he had t2 Hexmage and t5 Mindsludge both games.:-/ G2 was actually really close, as I brought in Essence Scatter from the SB, which two of kept him off of a Nocturnous and a Bloodwitch, sadly he top-decked another Bloodwitch right after I dropped a BSA, so that I couldn't get above 4 life AND my next draw was another BSA!! I would have definitely been able to recover, but I couldn't stop his 4 damage.:-/:-/ I can't wait to play UW!
r4 Jund (1-2): She, yeah that's right, she got t3 Blightening into t4 BBE EVERY game EVEN with me hitting t2 Spreading Seas (both on Savage Lands) two of those games!! G3 I had to sweep a Siege-gang with a DoJ, and she top-decked another SGC the next turn.
r5 Valakut Ramp (2-0): Even though I got this 2-0, it was a struggle. They want to play against decks that take a while and, if it wasn't for Spreading Seas, I don't think that I would have won! I do love getting land off of GG and then Bolting them before they deal damage, but the last thing that I want to do is Path any of his dorks!
I could go into, "I think that this should be done to the deck...blah blah blah," but I am gonna give UW a shot next week (if I don't end up trying out "Boss" Naya), and I hope that there will be a competitive home for UW on these forums soon enough! That being said, I do still really enjoy the RWU version, it's just that there are way too many Vamp decks at my store now (at least 5), and I don't want to play a deck that so definitely rolls over to another prevalent deck.:-/:-/:-/
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'll go against a tank with a shank for my dreams and that's my f@#$%n' word!" -Dead Prez
I could go into, "I think that this should be done to the deck...blah blah blah," but I am gonna give UW a shot next week (if I don't end up trying out "Boss" Naya), and I hope that there will be a competitive home for UW on these forums soon enough! That being said, I do still really enjoy the RWU version, it's just that there are way too many Vamp decks at my store now (at least 5), and I don't want to play a deck that so definitely rolls over to another prevalent deck.:-/:-/:-/
Play my version! Vamps dies easily unless they have 4 Pithing Needles 4 Black Knights and 4 Tectonic Edge, and realistically nobody is going to want to put those in there unless they hold a grudge against you. (I experienced this last week.
I'm pleasantly surprised. I expected most people in this thread to rip off/netdeck chapin's list almost card-for-card, but there hasn't been nearly as much bandwagon thinking yet.
Kudos
Regardless, hopefully UW's performance in San Diego earns the color combination a competitive thread, Lord knows it needs it (though not till after the Richmond Open! )
Yeah, you can't always netdeck control decks from PTs because of the time limitations, as has been mentioned previously. Plus, I love Jace, but I want more win conditions than just Jace/Coup/Iona and I also think Ajani is very worth it to splash for. Playing the two best planeswalkers in the game seems like a solid strategy on it's own.
Playing the two best planeswalkers in the game seems like a solid strategy on it's own.
I couldn't agree with this statement more. Ajani and Jace can both single-handedly take control of a game and get you there. Because of the time limitations, I'm still not 100% on what I want in total for my finishers. I think I might test with a miser's Iona (in addition to Colonnades) and actually time my play test matches. If I find it gets too hard to win, I can either add in finishers to the main deck one by one, or go for the Bankslayer sideboard plan. Does anyone have experience using this strategy?
so this is my list of what i plan to run for fnm this week. Since we are running a control Deck i figured Mentos, the fresh maker might actually be a fun little tech. Lets face it you are ganna have mana and denying them the ability to play things or attack is pretty good
so this is my list of what i plan to run for fnm this week. Since we are running a control Deck i figured Mentos, the fresh maker might actually be a fun little tech. Lets face it you are ganna have mana and denying them the ability to play things or attack is pretty good
You: Tap 8, play Lorthos. End my turn.
Them: EOT, Path Lorthos?
Yeah, awesome tech.
By the way, you're using three Fetchlands... why? Because you saw Chapin's list with a 2/1 split on Mesa/Tarn and figured that must be the new pro mana base? Look at his list again - he didn't use mountains. -_-
I'm new to this deck, but I had the idea to play it for a long time, and ever since I made my own version I had a blast with it.
The one thing I must say, I'm surprised Chandra Nalaar doesn't see more play in most list as a 1 of, even as a 2 of. In my personal experience, the casting cost of 5 with RR was never a problem, and she can be insane, a win condition by herself, card advantage (most times is 2 for 1, even 3 for 1), can deal with all the best creatures in the format, and puts all decks, specially control or slow ones, in a short clock.
Also, people talk about how WW, RR can be hard to get with this deck, but still haven't had a problem with that yet, the mana base seams to work really well. Was I just lucky so far?
This is my deck so far, it may change a lot, since, as I said, I'm lacking playing experience.
You: Tap 8, play Lorthos. End my turn.
Them: EOT, Path Lorthos?
Yeah, awesome tech.
By the way, you're using three Fetchlands... why? Because you saw Chapin's list with a 2/1 split on Mesa/Tarn and figured that must be the new pro mana base? Look at his list again - he didn't use mountains. -_-
actually i haven't seen his list. im running a 2/1 split because thats what i have, and that in my mind is the best way to get the red source i need considering im only running 1 red card. and what kind of idiot taps himself out in a control deck to play their finisher? id cast it with support in hand. What i did see of the interview was the 1 iona and i happen to like that. instead of acting like a dick you may want to offer suggestions. do you find something wrong with the mana base if so what? dont like the list offer suggestions as to what you would replace.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
actually i haven't seen his list. im running a 2/1 split because thats what i have, and that in my mind is the best way to get the red source i need considering im only running 1 red card. and what kind of idiot taps himself out in a control deck to play their finisher? id cast it with support in hand. What i did see of the interview was the 1 iona and i happen to like that. instead of acting like a dick you may want to offer suggestions. do you find something wrong with the mana base if so what? dont like the list offer suggestions as to what you would replace.
In that case, why not a second Iona instead of him? Iona doesn't need protection, wins the game as soon as you cast her, and it costs 9 mana. While you need 10 mana for your oversize octupus + counter to protec him, and he doesn't win the game as surely as Iona does.
And the problem with your mana base is that you only have 6 sources of red mana, meaning, many times your Ajanis will be a dead card in your hand.
In that case, why not a second Iona instead of him? Iona doesn't need protection, wins the game as soon as you cast her, and it costs 9 mana. While you need 10 mana for your oversize octupus + counter to protec him, and he doesn't win the game as surely as Iona does.
And the problem with your mana base is that you only have 6 sources of red mana, meaning, many times your Ajanis will be a dead card in your hand.
My 2 cents
Statistically, he should have one red mana source every 10 cards (until he uses fetches), which means he should get his mountain by turn four each game. This is fine in theory, especially in Limited when trying to figure out lands per splash color, but one mulligan or a badly-shuffled deck can really screw you over in this case.
I saw the deck tech and thought the deck was really interesting. Its sole wincon is Jace, but I guess Coup or Manlands could get there. I tweeked it up a bit and cut all the Red except for Ajani Vengeant and Lightning Bolt. Went creatureless (still thinking of adding the single Iona) and use the walkers to win. It plays really freaking slow, but it gets there. I think Pithing Needle is really gonna hurt the deck, but lucky for us its not played that often!
Gonna test it and see how it goes.
I'm certainly not telling you to not play the deck, just make sure you can play it well (duh) and in a timely manner and you should be fine.
Yeah, in fact I am pleased. I seriously missed Everflowing Chalice last night. The games that I lost were way too hard to take control of and would have really helped to have had it.
As for the matches I faced, it went like this:
Match 1: Esper aggro/midrange? Yeah this was really rough, I just got unlucky. If I had the Everflowing Chalice here I could have disrupted his mana and kept up with him. He built up his dudes and just before I was going to wrath the board he would always Tidehollow Sculler my DoJ and sac it with the trigger on the stack using Thopter Foundry. That was rough. I had to mull to 5 and a 2 land hand the second game and he Esper Charm'd and Sculler'd my answers. I got to 7 mana and had a hand consisting of Land, Martial Coup, DoJ and Negate. If I had chosen DoJ I would have counter'd his Countersquall and been stabilized but I chose the Coup and didn't get past his countersquall. Just a bad start for me, the deck and the night in general.
Match 2: Vamps. I lost game one because I was too slow and he mindsludged me. Here I missed Everflowing Chalice because I would have had enough extra mana to counter and keep answering his threats. Games 2 and 3 I totally dominated, it wasn't even close. I sided out Sphinxes and put in Obelisks but never needed them. I burned him out with Ajani, negated his Tendrils and Earthquaked for the win both games.
Match 3: Some janky GWR Manabarbs with ramp. Both games were just me burning him out with Ajani and countering his bombs.
Match 4: The Vamps player that got his mindsludge swerved back at him last week. He was pretty pissed about last week to say the least. This time he mainboarded Tectonic Edge, and 4 Black Knights and 4 Pithing Needles came in from the side. Both games were just me playing incorrectly around Tectonic Edge and him beating down with pro-white guys while he kept me off red mana by naming Arid Mesa with Pithing Needles (I drew three mesas in a row after he named it)
Match 5: Won both games against my friend's B/R Persecutor aggro deck. His deck just wasn't prepared for me and I answered his threats, gained life and Obelisk sealed the deal.
When I come back to this deck I'm going to keep 4 Everflowing Chalice's in the main. It's just really annoying to be so slow.
.........................................................................
EDIT: After watching Patrick Chapin's deck tech, I'm extremely thrilled to see him come to some of the same conclusions. He cut Sphinx completely. I wouldn't say that Everflowing Chalice is better than Mindstone, but it's definitely going back in my deck.
I actually might put in Mind Controls instead of Sphinx's. Stealing a Bloodwitch, Thrinax, Persecutor, Baneslayer or anything really, is amazing. People in my meta are starting to run those cards more and more and having Mind Control seems awesome, and I'll still have counters for other control deck's Sphinx's.
EDIT 2 (no posting so I'll just keep editing this post if nobody minds):
My newest list:
4x Arid Mesa
2x Celestial Colonnade
3x Glacial Fortress
3x Island
2x Mountain
4x Plains
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Sejiri Refuge
Instant (6)
3x Lightning Bolt
3x Negate
2x Mind Control
4x Spreading Seas
Sorcery (7)
4x Day of Judgment
2x Martial Coup
1x Mind Spring
Artifact (12)
3x Courier's Capsule
4x Everflowing Chalice
2x Obelisk of Alara
3x Scepter of Dominance
Planeswalker (4)
3x Ajani Vengeant
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3x Celestial Purge
3x Kor Firewalker
3x Pithing Needle
2x Swerve
4x White Knight
Yeah, I'm in love with it and can't wait to play with it when I come back to the deck in about 2 weeks. I want to play some Siege-Gangs and Chandras a couple times before I bring the deck back to FNM. I want to fit in more Jace too, since he's the best card in standard. I'll make it work.
And yeah I noticed that since I have Mind Control, I don't need Scatters so in come Lightning Bolts/Paths/O-rings (still deciding which one I like better).
I plan on fitting some more Jace in some how and if I don't get a Chalice, I just play it out. The game will be slower, but not impossible because the deck isn't totally reliant on it. However, Chalice does improve the deck overall because I can lock down the game quick and stabilize fast.
@ your ninja edit: I wouldn't drop a Scepter, but I would drop an Obelisk or both of them, since they do the same thing, which is get me out of tight spots or completely take the game over. Jace just costs less.
4 Calcite Snapper
3 Ajani Vengeant
3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Jace Beleren
1 Mind Spring
1 Mysteries of the Deep
3 Earthquake
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Path to Exile
1 Essence Scatter
1 Flashfreeze
2 Negate
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Arid Mesa
4 Island
3 Plains
2 Mountains
3 Flashfreeze
2 Negate
1 Double Negative
1 Essence Scatter
2 Celestial purge
2 Mind Control
2 Day of Judgment
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Ajani Vengeant
I went 3-0 then drew against a mirror then immidiatly got defeated by valakut ramp. On my last round, the winner would of made it into the top8. Unfortunatly, I lost against grixis control.
If I could go back in time, I would cut the one mysteries of the deep for an additionnal negate main and the old jace for a fourth new one. 6 of the 7 players I played against were playing blue. I believe there was more jace the mindsculptor at the event than players (which is getting closer to BBE!). There was ALOT of blue decks running spreading sees so I would up my mountain count to 3.
The UW list does have a single Iona.
Special thanks to High~Light Studios for the sig.
My trade thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=279327
Hi, i see that you are running lightning bolts instead of burst lightnings in your list. Is Lightning Bolt proved to be better than Burst Lightning most of the time in this deck ? Since with 4 Everflowing Chalice you are almost able to kick it most of the time, it deals with Malakir Bloodwitch as well.
It is something I have to think about, and test so only time will tell.
4 glacial fortress
2 jungle shrine
2 sejiri refuge
1 crumbling necropolis
1 celestial colonnade
6 island
4 plains
4 mountain
4 ajani vengeant
4 day of judgment
4 negate
4 curiers capsul
3 double negative
3 path to exile
3 burst lightning
1 earthquake
1 chain reaction
4 wall of denial
3 sphinx of jwar isle
1 baneslayer angel
1 felidar soveriegn
its the list i run now....needs some mods
baneslayer and felidar will become mind sculptor
2 islands 1 mountain for 3 halimar depths
4 curiers capsul for 4 treasure hunt
let me know what you think
i very much so like your list. one card i do not agree with, however, is comet storm. don't see the point of it.
Yes, please do as so far i prefer to see a Burst Lightning instead of Lightning Bolt. Also, does the Scepter of Dominance really do well ? I always find it slow most of the time.
Perhaps i wasn't playing it with Spreading Sea to control the mana bases along w Scepter. Somehow, i don't like playing Spreading Sea as it sucks to draw into one when you need actual answers. I understand that it cycle itself but space are really limited in the deck.
4 Arid mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Island
3 Mountain
4 Plains
Creatures
4 Wall of Denial
Spells
4 Ajani Vengeant
4 Jace, the mind sculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Chandra Nalaar
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Day of Judgment
2 Martial Coup
4 Negate
3 Cancel
3 Courier's Capsule
4 Flashfreeze
4 Celestial Purge
4 Luminarch Ascension
3 Path to exile
So yea I took a more or less "creature-less" planeswalker heavy type of build. Using cancel as a catch all. Also using negates in the sense that most creatures really wont be much of a bother really. However it is the spells that are a killer. Pulse, Ultimatum, other counters, other planeswalker. All can be a major hindrance.
So the play style in mind is to take takes some hits and what not until a stabilization can happen with ajani wall or day/coup. Once this deck stabalizes it gets a hold of the game very quickly with Jace and ajani with wall support for them. Ive included the wall of denial as what it quote reads, Time to think. It is there to slow down attacking decks and allow me to think things through. Also allows them to over extend into a day of judgment.
Deft duelists got removed from my past build because 2/1 unfortantley is not standing up to this standard. I tested the snapper and for this build he just does not fit the gameplan. I want to be able to use the walls to provide me time but also protection post wrath from like a baneslayer.
In all honesty I don't care about lifegain. Seriously I have brought down a naya deck from 132 life. The only life I would care about is the untouchable life totals that is absurd to obtain with standard tier decks atm.
Singleton Elsepth and Chandra are there for catch alls , and they have been just awesome. Elspeth and Jace and just so strong together. Chandra can provide an extra 10 damage or rid the field of a bothersome creature.
Win cons come from Jace, The man land with or without an elspeth pump, or Martial Coup. Ajani is there to gain life but can also set up a destroy all land plot follow up by a martial coup.
Mysteries of the deep was very nice but I needed a bit more reliable draw, hence the courier's capsule. I am not using treasure hunt because I am still not a fan of that card. It is still a wild card. Look at one of the twitters on about the pro tour. 2 treasure hunts both revealed non land card on the first reveal, when land was needed. Not to mention I don't like revealing my secrets.
---
Sorry about the read guys but yea I have been wracking my brain on this and just getting ready for my first 5k.
Thought guys?
Standard : Mono Black Control
Pauper : Mostly U/R Post but also every deck except infect, mono green aggro and tortured existence.
Well, the core of the deck is Scepter/Ajani/DoJ. The rest of the deck is good card (Jace), answers, and cards that revolve around that core.
Spreading Seas is great disruption on it's own, and is a game ender if I have a Scepter and an Ajani out. It's great against any 3 color deck, even decks that run blue. It still does it's job against Vamps because they need double and triple black much of the time.
Scepter is great with Everflowing Chalice. T3 Ajani T4 Scepter T5 Jace/DoJ/Obelisk/Card Draw/anything really, T6 Jace/Martial Coup/Obelisk/DoJ.... The deck curves out very well.
anyway, re: comet storm - ordinarily, you'd play earthquake in this spot. if your earthquake has to be X >= 4, it can kill your snappers - or, worse, yourself. i find when i play this deck that my life total at end of game is in the 4-6 range, and not dying to someone's mised lightning bolt, consume spirit, etc. seems like a good plan. both comet storm and earthquake can be used for the final kill - but comet storm doesn't threaten to kill YOU along with your opponent. too many decks run lightning bolt now to play around.
The MirroCube - 420 card Mirrodin themed cube
And if I've offended you, I'm sorry, but maybe you need to be offended. But here's my apology and one more thing...
New list:
4x Arid Mesa
2x Celestial Colonnade
3x Glacial Fortress
3x Island
2x Mountain
4x Plains
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Sejiri Refuge
Instant (4)
4x Negate
Enchantment (6)
2x Mind Control
2x Oblivion Ring
4x Spreading Seas
4x Day of Judgment
2x Martial Coup
1x Mind Spring
Artifact (10)
3x Courier's Capsule
4x Everflowing Chalice
3x Scepter of Dominance
Planeswalker (5)
3x Ajani Vengeant
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Creature (1)
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
3x Celestial Purge
3x Kor Firewalker
3x Pithing Needle
2x Swerve
4x White Knight
Kudos
Regardless, hopefully UW's performance in San Diego earns the color combination a competitive thread, Lord knows it needs it (though not till after the Richmond Open! )
Sig by ChibiSwan~!
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi."
Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
I too am hoping for a UW thread soon; or at least a UWx thread again.
I went 3-2 Friday; a bit underwhelming. The two rounds I lost were not surprising though: Vamps and Jund. Everything else was a one-sided slaughter!
r1 UWb Mirror-ish (2-0): He "splashed" B for Esper Charm (I love that card) and Persecutor (not such a splash). If the mana wasn't so clunky, it seems like it could work; he runs Into the Roil to bounce, and that, along with Jace, PtE, and DoJ can get his Persecutor off of the board fairly consistently. Luckily, I hit Jace AND Ajani both games to keep him off of needed cards and to mess with his mana even more. RWU is much more solid. Snapepr wtw g1!!
r2 WWg (2-0): I saw this list the night before (or at least one like it) running Stoneforge Mystic + Collar/Sledge and a lot of W beats, but I just mowed threw him. I was worried that he may be able to recover since his equipment stayed after I swept, but this was just not the case. Spreading Seas was an MVP here, seeing 2 g1 and 3 g2. Snapper was also a BOMB!!!
r3 Vamps (0-2): Ugh. I don't want to spend much time reliving this. Let's just say that he had t2 Hexmage and t5 Mindsludge both games.:-/ G2 was actually really close, as I brought in Essence Scatter from the SB, which two of kept him off of a Nocturnous and a Bloodwitch, sadly he top-decked another Bloodwitch right after I dropped a BSA, so that I couldn't get above 4 life AND my next draw was another BSA!! I would have definitely been able to recover, but I couldn't stop his 4 damage.:-/:-/ I can't wait to play UW!
r4 Jund (1-2): She, yeah that's right, she got t3 Blightening into t4 BBE EVERY game EVEN with me hitting t2 Spreading Seas (both on Savage Lands) two of those games!! G3 I had to sweep a Siege-gang with a DoJ, and she top-decked another SGC the next turn.
r5 Valakut Ramp (2-0): Even though I got this 2-0, it was a struggle. They want to play against decks that take a while and, if it wasn't for Spreading Seas, I don't think that I would have won! I do love getting land off of GG and then Bolting them before they deal damage, but the last thing that I want to do is Path any of his dorks!
I could go into, "I think that this should be done to the deck...blah blah blah," but I am gonna give UW a shot next week (if I don't end up trying out "Boss" Naya), and I hope that there will be a competitive home for UW on these forums soon enough! That being said, I do still really enjoy the RWU version, it's just that there are way too many Vamp decks at my store now (at least 5), and I don't want to play a deck that so definitely rolls over to another prevalent deck.:-/:-/:-/
"I'll go against a tank with a shank for my dreams and that's my f@#$%n' word!" -Dead Prez
Play my version! Vamps dies easily unless they have 4 Pithing Needles 4 Black Knights and 4 Tectonic Edge, and realistically nobody is going to want to put those in there unless they hold a grudge against you. (I experienced this last week.
Yeah, you can't always netdeck control decks from PTs because of the time limitations, as has been mentioned previously. Plus, I love Jace, but I want more win conditions than just Jace/Coup/Iona and I also think Ajani is very worth it to splash for. Playing the two best planeswalkers in the game seems like a solid strategy on it's own.
I couldn't agree with this statement more. Ajani and Jace can both single-handedly take control of a game and get you there. Because of the time limitations, I'm still not 100% on what I want in total for my finishers. I think I might test with a miser's Iona (in addition to Colonnades) and actually time my play test matches. If I find it gets too hard to win, I can either add in finishers to the main deck one by one, or go for the Bankslayer sideboard plan. Does anyone have experience using this strategy?
4x Celestial colonnade
4x Sejiri refuge
4x Kabira crossroads
3x Halimar Depths
3x Mountain
2x Arid mesa
2x Plains
2x Island
1x Scalding tarn
creatures
1x Lorthos, the tidemaker
1x Iona, shield of emeria
2x Elspeth, knight-errant
3x Jace, the mind sculptor
3x Ajani Vengent
4x Treasure hunt
4x everflowing chalice
4x spreading seas
3x oblivion ring
3x cancel
3x Day of Judgement
2x Mind spring
2x Marshal coup
4x Perimeter Captain
3x Luminarch ascension
3x Telemins performance
3x Negate
2x Mind control
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
You: Tap 8, play Lorthos. End my turn.
Them: EOT, Path Lorthos?
Yeah, awesome tech.
By the way, you're using three Fetchlands... why? Because you saw Chapin's list with a 2/1 split on Mesa/Tarn and figured that must be the new pro mana base? Look at his list again - he didn't use mountains. -_-
The one thing I must say, I'm surprised Chandra Nalaar doesn't see more play in most list as a 1 of, even as a 2 of. In my personal experience, the casting cost of 5 with RR was never a problem, and she can be insane, a win condition by herself, card advantage (most times is 2 for 1, even 3 for 1), can deal with all the best creatures in the format, and puts all decks, specially control or slow ones, in a short clock.
Also, people talk about how WW, RR can be hard to get with this deck, but still haven't had a problem with that yet, the mana base seams to work really well. Was I just lucky so far?
This is my deck so far, it may change a lot, since, as I said, I'm lacking playing experience.
4x Arid Mesa
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Celestial Colonnade
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Island
3x Mountain
3x Plains
1x Terramorphic Expanse
Instant (11)
2x Negate
2x Essence Scatter
2x Double Negative
1x Into the Roil
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Day of Judgment
1x Mind Spring
1x Earthquake
Artifact (7)
4x Courier's Capsule
3x Scepter of Dominance
Planeswalker (9)
3x Ajani Vengeant
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Chandra Nalaar
Creature (2)
2x Sphinx of Jwar isle
4x Celestial Purge
3x Kor Firewalker
4x Spreading Seas
2x Swerve
2x Mind Control
I'll take any criticism you may have for me. Thanks.
actually i haven't seen his list. im running a 2/1 split because thats what i have, and that in my mind is the best way to get the red source i need considering im only running 1 red card. and what kind of idiot taps himself out in a control deck to play their finisher? id cast it with support in hand. What i did see of the interview was the 1 iona and i happen to like that. instead of acting like a dick you may want to offer suggestions. do you find something wrong with the mana base if so what? dont like the list offer suggestions as to what you would replace.
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
In that case, why not a second Iona instead of him? Iona doesn't need protection, wins the game as soon as you cast her, and it costs 9 mana. While you need 10 mana for your oversize octupus + counter to protec him, and he doesn't win the game as surely as Iona does.
And the problem with your mana base is that you only have 6 sources of red mana, meaning, many times your Ajanis will be a dead card in your hand.
My 2 cents
Statistically, he should have one red mana source every 10 cards (until he uses fetches), which means he should get his mountain by turn four each game. This is fine in theory, especially in Limited when trying to figure out lands per splash color, but one mulligan or a badly-shuffled deck can really screw you over in this case.
Edit: Also, if you don't slow-roll your red source, you can get blown out by a Spreading Seas or, I suppose, even a Scepter of Dominance.