I have been trying to make a B/W deck for a long time, but I was finding it was not good enough against top tier decks. I have added Blue and I found that has added some much needed consistency. Here is my list.
Now about some of my choices. I am a huge fan of Soul Manipulation for its potential card advantage and with all the great removal in the format now that will target your creatures. Although I found that 4 of them were too many. Agony Warp is also in for the potential card advantage on the blocks or attacks of the 2 drops in the deck. One card I am not a huge fan of Nyxathid in this deck but I needed a three or four drop that was a threat that I could play with the heavy black in the decks mana base. I tried using Vampire Nighthawk but although it is a great creature it is not a real threat, it holds the fort and trades very well. Bloodghast is there for lategame and to do some damage here and there.
Currently playing:
T2:
Tempered Steel:symw:
:symr::symu::symw: Birthing Pod:symr::symu::symw:
Legacy:
:symu::symb:
Four Horsemen
:symu::symb:
Thanks to Wrathchild for the Sig, it's perfect!!!
Thanks to Bookworm10 for the Avatar!
Countersquall used to be negate but I was finding my manabase was good enough to support it. First game against jund is hard but after siding it is a really decent match-up. Spreading sees is against Valakut and Emeria land decks. And Against Vamps as long as they dont get a mindsludge off it is a good match-up for me.
I think you can do better than Fleshbag Marauder and Nyxathid . With agony warp I would recommand something first strike like vampire hexmage
too bad esper doesn't have enough fetch or grim discovery would be a decent recovery spell
Esper does have a fetch. Marsh Flats. And you can use Terramorphic. You might be able to work Grim Discovery into the build if you included Terramorphic.
2 black is easy. 3 black is really hard to hit early game and I usually want to fleshbag at any time I may need it. And I like to recur them with the Soul Manipulation. Man I would love a Shriekmaw.
I think you need to go back and try Nighthawk again. While not a "threat," it is sure to eat removal, or gains you a bunch of life. Completely necessary with RDW in the format. Reads "Deal with or lose"
"The accumulation of their filth will foam up around their waists, and all the [prostitutes] and politicians will look up and shout, 'SAVE US.' and I'll look down and whisper,'No.'"
With all the instant removal in the deck and in the side and soul Manipulation rdw is not a problem. Also I have tried Hexmage in the past but found that Bloodghast was better in that slot.
With all the instant removal in the deck and in the side and soul Manipulation rdw is not a problem. Also I have tried Hexmage in the past but found that Bloodghast was better in that slot.
I dunno, a pumped up (elspeth) Hexmage could go head to head with Baneslayer. But not the case for Bloodghast
Looks good, although it looks like you are a bit light on threats. Maybe cut down a bit on the counter magic and throw 1-2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle or Sorin Markov. I think Nixathid is a wasted slot, and Gatekeeper or Black Knight would be a better fit. Either the knight to help against WW and RDW, or Gatekeeper for obvious reasons. Gatekeeper is probably more synergistic, but I would definitely either put some Wall of Reverence of first strikers at least in your board to deal with fast decks that will blow you out.
I think you aren't aggro enough to run Bloodghast, and that slot should be better threats or blockers. One other singleton card you might consider is Rise from the Grave to bring back Baneslayers and the like as a mise. I like the idea of agony warp, but I don't think I would run more than 2 since it can be hard to get much value out of it. Finally, you're in Zealous Persecution and Identity Crisis colors, and VS RDW/Boros for ZP, and control for ID Crisis, those might deserve sideboard slots depending on your meta.
Oh, and run 4 Esper Charm, it's one of the best cards in your deck, in my humble opinion.
Not sure how Nighthawk isn't a threat. It's a 4 point life swing for only 3, it at least trades with every relevant creature in the format other than a pumped Geopede, Baneslayer, and of course pro-black guys, all while gaining life. It's immediately removed because of how threatening it is. It's no BSA of course, but for 3 it's a damn big threat.
Since you're already running Sculler, Meddling Mage is worth running.
I think the problem with this deck is your creature quality is much lower than current popular creature decks out there. You probably won't be able to attack into or block their stronger creatures early or midgame. Those decks can win that part of the game by default, as long as they save their removal for when you resolve baneslayer I don't think you can come back. None of your creatures are really worthy of them spending removal on until BSA. I think you will have to use Sphinx of Jwar Isle as a finisher instead of BSA.
I think the problem with this deck is your creature quality is much lower than current popular creature decks out there. You probably won't be able to attack into or block their stronger creatures early or midgame. Those decks can win that part of the game by default, as long as they save their removal for when you resolve baneslayer I don't think you can come back. None of your creatures are really worthy of them spending removal on until BSA. I think you will have to use Sphinx of Jwar Isle as a finisher instead of BSA.
Quality wise Fleshbag Marauder and Nyxathid definately doesn't match up to the current meta creature quality. In the Esper Colour Jwar Isle is definately a good finisher, and there is also Sphinx of the Steel Wind.
low cmc threat I personally do consider nighthawk to be a annoying one despite it is not working too well with you.
i think the nighthawk is a sound choice.
it interacts well with the bloodwitch from the side.
provides a solid need to get rid of creature.
and a deck with both baneslayer and nighthawk is just gross.
but i play jund and i can understand the complexities of a crazy mana base.
and if you find that problematic i can understand that.
nyxathid i think requires a little more focus on removing the hand personally.
i find esper charm an immediate 4 of in esper.
you may not need the draw.
but maybe your opponent doesnt need their hand too.
discard is too disgusting in the current meta.
it makes a mess of things.
i think only 2 spreading seas is weak.
if your going that route. 4 is the way to go.
the card draw is cute.
but doubles seems light. theres other stuff you can do.
like another charm and/or fleshbag.
i agree. if your deck can handle the ub go for it.
but i think negate is less hectic on the base.
i think the 2 life is not signifigant enough to run a mana dependent card.
i also think 3 day of judgement main is solid.
2 seems light. 3, not too heavy. not too light.
thats my 2 cents. take it as you will
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Hah! Banefire? Real men cycle Resounding Thunder."
If your looking for a threat at the 3 drop slot and don't want to run nighthawk or nixathid and since hand disruption is as good as it is right now in the format how about hypnotic specter? true he's only a 2/2 flyer but if they dont deal with him they will start loosing their hand. and no one likes that. running 4 of those + 4 esper charm gives you 8 cards for hand disruption. Thats my thoughts anyway.
I dont have that much experience with Battlegrace angel but I like the idea of swinging with 3/2 bloodghasts with lifelink once and a while or a 6/6 Baneslayer. I might just give up playing creatures turn 3-4 while I negate other decks best turns with counter and removal.
Looks like I found my decks' 4 drop in the newly spoiled Abyssal Persecutor. It will also give the deck some punch so I wont need any Countersquall 's and can run off just Negate's. This is a sample future decklist.
I think the fleshbags, removal and the recursion I run in the deck already will help me find a way to kill the Persecutor when I need to. Also this creature will give the deck a name. Taboo Marriage (On account of the Baneslayers and the Persecutors in the same deck). Now I dont know if this thread should be moved for a short time since I am jamming in cards that are not legal yet in standard.
Infraction issued for Worldwake discussion. The local time is 3:05 PM. The weather is slightly cloudy.
I recently made a deck to utilize my favorite card, Baneslayer Angel, with the newest model, Abyssal Persecutor. This is what, after plenty of proxy testing, I came out with:
The orginal version was like the Wb aggro deck, but after a lot of testing I decided that the black lean was better. I dropped the White Knights for Vampire Nighthawks and the card advantage engine got an upgrade with Sign in Blood taking Knight of the White Orchid's slot. Another key change was that it was easier to cast that turn one Duress, as well as allow me to fit Soul Stair Expedition in over what had orginally been Marshal's Anthem. The creature return system works fantastic in the deck, as it allows you to get hand disruption back in Tidehollow's to use before attempting to remove Abyssal against control, as well as giving you Fleshbag Marauders in key situations (such as against control decks that are waiting to counter removal on the Abyssal), and that is added to the fact that you can use it to get back Baneslayers or Abyssal's if needed. Speaking of the Fleshbags, I have been loving them a lot more than I did with Bone Splinters, and it also makes it harder on control due to their decisions on Negate vs. Essence Scatter.
Since the deck only had 4 CIPT lands, I went ahead and added the 2 Creeping Tar Pit, giving the deck a great option after your singleton Day of Judgement, and allowed me to attack past Wall of Denials.
The Tidehollow's have been really good so far. Against Aggro I try to get rid of gas, usually baiting them into removing Tidehollow. That works out great, as it turns Tidehollow into a Time Walk that eats their removal. Control was a bit tough at first, because once Abyssal gets on board, all they have to do is counter a few removal spells to win. Tidehollow's become great in that situation as well, as you can Soul Stair them back and use them before you go to use your removal on Abyssal.
Sign in Blood has been important, as you can't afford to not have the removal you need once Abyssal is down.
All in all, I have been really happy with the way it has been working. The deck design flows incredibly more smooth that I had anticipated when I set out trying to figure out how to use Abyssal best.
Like the deck, dorp a threat ( baneslayer or prosecutor) and back it up with heavy hand disrutpion (tidehollows and duress). Only thing i might change is maybe grim discovery over soulstair? it gives you the same amount of card advantage without having to get 3 quest counters (better off the top). it can return terminated man lands or fetchlands.
I could do that, but returning 2 creatures over 1 creature and a land is really big. I will need to do more testing, but so far I have been getting Soul Stairs out early enough that they are better than Grims.
4x Bloodghast
4x Tidehollow Sculler
2x Fleshbag Marauder
3x Nyxathid
4x Baneslayer Angel
Instants
4x Path to Exile
3x Agony Warp
4x Countersquall
3x Soul Manipulation
3x Esper Charm
2x Day of Judgment
Lands
2x Island
3x Plains
6x Swamp
4x Marsh Flats
4x Drowned Catacombs
3x Glacial Fortress
2x Arcane Sanctum
1x Day of Judgment
4x Malakir Bloodwitch
4x Celestial Purge
2x Spreading Seas
4x Flashfreeze
Countersquall is yuck, but if your manabase can handle it, good.
T2:
Tempered Steel:symw:
:symr::symu::symw: Birthing Pod:symr::symu::symw:
Legacy:
:symu::symb:
Four Horsemen
:symu::symb:
Thanks to Wrathchild for the Sig, it's perfect!!!
Thanks to Bookworm10 for the Avatar!
too bad esper doesn't have enough fetch or grim discovery would be a decent recovery spell
Magic the Gathering - Planeswalker Analysis
Mahalo - Magic the Gathering Page
the keyword is enough. 4 I don't consider that to be enough. But yes Terramorphic is decent or even esper panaroama
Magic the Gathering - Planeswalker Analysis
Mahalo - Magic the Gathering Page
I dunno, a pumped up (elspeth) Hexmage could go head to head with Baneslayer. But not the case for Bloodghast
Magic the Gathering - Planeswalker Analysis
Mahalo - Magic the Gathering Page
I think you aren't aggro enough to run Bloodghast, and that slot should be better threats or blockers. One other singleton card you might consider is Rise from the Grave to bring back Baneslayers and the like as a mise. I like the idea of agony warp, but I don't think I would run more than 2 since it can be hard to get much value out of it. Finally, you're in Zealous Persecution and Identity Crisis colors, and VS RDW/Boros for ZP, and control for ID Crisis, those might deserve sideboard slots depending on your meta.
Oh, and run 4 Esper Charm, it's one of the best cards in your deck, in my humble opinion.
Since you're already running Sculler, Meddling Mage is worth running.
EDH:
W Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
GB Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
Quality wise Fleshbag Marauder and Nyxathid definately doesn't match up to the current meta creature quality. In the Esper Colour Jwar Isle is definately a good finisher, and there is also Sphinx of the Steel Wind.
low cmc threat I personally do consider nighthawk to be a annoying one despite it is not working too well with you.
Magic the Gathering - Planeswalker Analysis
Mahalo - Magic the Gathering Page
it interacts well with the bloodwitch from the side.
provides a solid need to get rid of creature.
and a deck with both baneslayer and nighthawk is just gross.
but i play jund and i can understand the complexities of a crazy mana base.
and if you find that problematic i can understand that.
nyxathid i think requires a little more focus on removing the hand personally.
i find esper charm an immediate 4 of in esper.
you may not need the draw.
but maybe your opponent doesnt need their hand too.
discard is too disgusting in the current meta.
it makes a mess of things.
i think only 2 spreading seas is weak.
if your going that route. 4 is the way to go.
the card draw is cute.
but doubles seems light. theres other stuff you can do.
like another charm and/or fleshbag.
i agree. if your deck can handle the
but i think negate is less hectic on the base.
i think the 2 life is not signifigant enough to run a mana dependent card.
i also think 3 day of judgement main is solid.
2 seems light. 3, not too heavy. not too light.
thats my 2 cents. take it as you will
Standard:
:symb::symu: Monoblack Devotion (W/ Notion Thief)
Previous Standards:
:symg::symr::symb::symw: Darthsaber
:symg::symw::symr: Naya Midrange
:symg::symw::symr: Naya Pod
:symg::symw::symr: GWr Caw Blade
:symg::symr::symb: Jund
:symu::symw: Merfolk
My Cube
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7854834#post7854834
:symu::symb: Modern Mill
:symr::symg: Philosophy of Fire
:symr::symu: Feel the Pulse
:symr::symg: Modern Dragons
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Modern Wacky Domain
4x Bloodghast
4x Tidehollow Sculler
2x Fleshbag Marauder
2x Battlegrace Angel
4x Baneslayer Angel
Instants
4x Path to Exile
3x Agony Warp
2x Countersquall
3x Negate
3x Soul Manipulation
3x Esper Charm
2x Day of Judgment
Lands
2x Island
3x Plains
6x Swamp
4x Marsh Flats
4x Drowned Catacombs
3x Glacial Fortress
2x Arcane Sanctum
1x Day of Judgment
4x Malakir Bloodwitch
4x Celestial Purge
2x Spreading Seas
4x Flashfreeze
I dont have that much experience with Battlegrace angel but I like the idea of swinging with 3/2 bloodghasts with lifelink once and a while or a 6/6 Baneslayer. I might just give up playing creatures turn 3-4 while I negate other decks best turns with counter and removal.
4x Bloodghast
4x Tidehollow Sculler
2x Fleshbag Marauder
3x Abyssal Persecutor
4x Baneslayer Angel
Instants
4x Path to Exile
3x Agony Warp
4x Negate
3x Soul Manipulation
3x Esper Charm
2x Day of Judgment
Lands
2x Island
3x Plains
6x Swamp
4x Marsh Flats
4x Drowned Catacombs
3x Glacial Fortress
2x Arcane Sanctum
1x Day of Judgment
4x Malakir Bloodwitch
4x Celestial Purge
2x Spreading Seas
4x Flashfreeze
I think the fleshbags, removal and the recursion I run in the deck already will help me find a way to kill the Persecutor when I need to. Also this creature will give the deck a name. Taboo Marriage (On account of the Baneslayers and the Persecutors in the same deck). Now I dont know if this thread should be moved for a short time since I am jamming in cards that are not legal yet in standard.
Infraction issued for Worldwake discussion. The local time is 3:05 PM. The weather is slightly cloudy.
I recently made a deck to utilize my favorite card, Baneslayer Angel, with the newest model, Abyssal Persecutor. This is what, after plenty of proxy testing, I came out with:
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Fleshbag Marauder
4x Baneslayer Angel
4x Abyssal Persecutor
Spells:
4x Duress
4x Path to Exile
4x Sign in Blood
3x Soul Stair Expedition
1x Day of Judgement
4x Arcane Sanctum
4x Marsh Flats
2x Creeping Tar Pit
6x Plains
7x Swamp
1x Basalisk Collar
4x Kor Firewalker
2x Refraction Trap
4x Nemesis Trap
4x Malakir Bloodwitch
The orginal version was like the Wb aggro deck, but after a lot of testing I decided that the black lean was better. I dropped the White Knights for Vampire Nighthawks and the card advantage engine got an upgrade with Sign in Blood taking Knight of the White Orchid's slot. Another key change was that it was easier to cast that turn one Duress, as well as allow me to fit Soul Stair Expedition in over what had orginally been Marshal's Anthem. The creature return system works fantastic in the deck, as it allows you to get hand disruption back in Tidehollow's to use before attempting to remove Abyssal against control, as well as giving you Fleshbag Marauders in key situations (such as against control decks that are waiting to counter removal on the Abyssal), and that is added to the fact that you can use it to get back Baneslayers or Abyssal's if needed. Speaking of the Fleshbags, I have been loving them a lot more than I did with Bone Splinters, and it also makes it harder on control due to their decisions on Negate vs. Essence Scatter.
Since the deck only had 4 CIPT lands, I went ahead and added the 2 Creeping Tar Pit, giving the deck a great option after your singleton Day of Judgement, and allowed me to attack past Wall of Denials.
The Tidehollow's have been really good so far. Against Aggro I try to get rid of gas, usually baiting them into removing Tidehollow. That works out great, as it turns Tidehollow into a Time Walk that eats their removal. Control was a bit tough at first, because once Abyssal gets on board, all they have to do is counter a few removal spells to win. Tidehollow's become great in that situation as well, as you can Soul Stair them back and use them before you go to use your removal on Abyssal.
Sign in Blood has been important, as you can't afford to not have the removal you need once Abyssal is down.
All in all, I have been really happy with the way it has been working. The deck design flows incredibly more smooth that I had anticipated when I set out trying to figure out how to use Abyssal best.
Anyway, here's to making Abyssal not be a bust.
Thanks to Spiderboy4 for the sig!
Thanks to Spiderboy4 for the sig!