Topic above. Let's see, the deck has access to all of the best removal in the format, every creature in the deck is pretty unfair, almost every card generates CA (blightning just rapes face). Wouldn't you be crazy NOT to run jund if you were intent on winning a std constructed tournament?
Some people say spread 'em is the answer, it's great in theory. But I don't see too many spread 'em decks getting top 8 in tourny's. The problem is that if it hiccuips against jund, just for a few turns, it just plain loses. Not to mention not everyone has access to baneslayer angels.
So seriously, if I wanted to have at least a decent shot at winning a tourny, shouldn't I just play jund?
EDIT: okay sure, there's bant and naya, but again, the walletslayer problem.
if you don't want to get walletslayer, jund or RDW are probably your best bets. I'd say RDW would be more of a gamble though. Sure you could beat everyone... but the deck is notorious for losing to itself.
boros and eldrazi green are still good decks, however, that don't run the baneslayer. they just haven't seen as much success lately.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
:symw:Modern Death & Taxes:symw:
:sympu:NinjaFaerieStill:sympu:
:symb:Maga, Traitor to Mortals:symb:
jund is the best deck. but it does have a few weaknesses. and if you dont want to spend money on good cards like baneslayer, then you should expect to lose to people who do pay money for good cards. im not saying you should; hell, i dont. i play MWS. but its either lose or pay up. like with everything in life.
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck *********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like to to occur and validate you.
Completely false. No deck aside from the mirror had any chance of beating Affinity; even the R/G decks that were purely dedicated to hating out Affinity couldn't post any kind of positive matchup result.
Back then, the format was basically "Play Affinity or don't play T2". Jund is clearly the best deck in T2, but the format hasn't devolved into "Play Jund or don't play Standard".
Jund, Naya Lightsabre, and Boros Bushwacker are the three strongest decks at the moment in my mind. There are other competitive archetypes (heck, I play bloody Vampires), but I don't think they're quite on the same level as those three. We'll see what Worldwake has to offer.
I disagree, Vampires can easily win from those decks... it's just the abnormal amount of Jund around.
Vampires can and does defeat Naya and Boros. But I just meant from a generalist perspective. A case could certainly be made for Naya and Boros being more versatile and more effective archetypes than something like Vampires or Jacerator in general.
And the same cannot be said for Jund. Say what you will about tactics and play style. Jund should usually eat Vampires alive (or undead, in this case).
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
Completely false. No deck aside from the mirror had any chance of beating Affinity; even the R/G decks that were purely dedicated to hating out Affinity couldn't post any kind of positive matchup result.
Back then, the format was basically "Play Affinity or don't play T2". Jund is clearly the best deck in T2, but the format hasn't devolved into "Play Jund or don't play Standard".
well, post fifth dawn slide had a great matchup with it, but yeah, thats after all the bannings and such anyways.
umm I play Runeflare Trap without Time Warp and i can take on Jund, instead of Time Warp I run a jank card called Spell Pierce, it stops the turn 3 pulse/Bligthning. Sure i lose once and a while, but i have had something like 60/40 range for win lose against them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Generation 18: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
W/G/B can really give most of the decks out there a run for their money. It can usually get pretty fast starts, and it's very hard for it to run out of gas. Only problem is, it's a bajillion dollars if you factor in the costs of the duals, Planeswalkers, Baneslayers, and Pulses.
W/G/B can really give most of the decks out there a run for their money. It can usually get pretty fast starts, and it's very hard for it to run out of gas. Only problem is, it's a bajillion dollars if you factor in the costs of the duals, Planeswalkers, Baneslayers, and Pulses.
Junk is a great deck and can hold its own against the entire T2 field, but you're right, it is the most expensive standard deck to make.
that's ok, because the super-secret variant of jund that i'm playing gets 2-0 against your deck no matter what. thus reestablishing jund superiority.
Well the secret tech in my Junk deck is obviously the best because nobody else knows about, and if they did, they'd instantly scoop, allowing me to win by default.
Completely false. No deck aside from the mirror had any chance of beating Affinity; even the R/G decks that were purely dedicated to hating out Affinity couldn't post any kind of positive matchup result.
Back then, the format was basically "Play Affinity or don't play T2". Jund is clearly the best deck in T2, but the format hasn't devolved into "Play Jund or don't play Standard".
GW slide. Please pretend you know what you're talking about before you make such a sweeping assertion.
He is so man, he is mario, and I will tell my opponents such. As and when I bounce their permanent I will exclaim "MARIO" as though he were stomped on by our mighty Jace. Every time someone kill him I will give them 99 USD (not AUS!!!) because their lightning bolt should cost 100 DOLLARS...
Jace even made it into the Teenage Super Hero Mutant Ninja Hero Turtles.
I made a jund player concede turn 2 by playing Runeclaw Bear and shouting out loud its flavor text. So no, Bear.dec beats jund.
lol
Seriously op, just try and stfu. Jund isn't a win all. Better yet try some jund hate. Some of them win pretty consistently. RDW is really pretty good in this meta, just a lot of people dont like it and even more dont play it.
Completely false. No deck aside from the mirror had any chance of beating Affinity; even the R/G decks that were purely dedicated to hating out Affinity couldn't post any kind of positive matchup result.
Back then, the format was basically "Play Affinity or don't play T2". Jund is clearly the best deck in T2, but the format hasn't devolved into "Play Jund or don't play Standard".
Nah its just the hate deck had like a 55% win chance against affinity. A deck that was literally about 40 md hate slots was still realitively a coin flip. A deck packed with that much hate should have an outstanding winchance ie 60%+ against the deck it hates. The fact it didn't is what made affinity broke.
Jund actually doesn't do to well in my local meta. The decks that get ran are too randomn and spread em sees play along with an extremly odd but potent esper deck. (though that might be the player, he's run BUW since I've known him and always does very well with it.) Jund typically loses to a mono W deck thats popular around here because of its casual appeal (its soldiers but with 4 capain of the watch and 4 pledge) due to 8 anti jund sb and a decent md.
Jund is just annoying because the cascade chains tend to leave people beaten by it feeling bitter figuring the opponent just had a lucksack win.
Completely false. No deck aside from the mirror had any chance of beating Affinity; even the R/G decks that were purely dedicated to hating out Affinity couldn't post any kind of positive matchup result.
Back then, the format was basically "Play Affinity or don't play T2". Jund is clearly the best deck in T2, but the format hasn't devolved into "Play Jund or don't play Standard".
...
Umm talking about T2 here man you can just go away and cry now.
Runeflare Combo competly owns my currenty meta, minus the random RDWs or bad draws against Jund. it ultra cheap compaired to the other top decks around. try and proxy it up and give it a go. my own version makes almost all deck go "oh that sucks." or "F()<k you A$$ h()le!" it's quick and easy beats cruel control 95% of the time. My personal % of croase i don't know how other people place around the world. Where i play many people run counter control.
My 0.02 cents if you don't like it don't listen to me I don't overly care.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Generation 18: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
I think its pretty clear at this point that, if you want to win at T2, you play Jund and hope you cascade well.
There's a reason virtually everyone in my area has stopped caring about T2. I'm just playing Grixis Control (w/ Blightning) for fun. It attacks Jund in precisely the two areas where it is weak (virtual CA via blanking their removal & attacking their hand post-board since their CA comes from resolved spells). But even playing a deck tailor made to beat Jund I still don't manage better than a 50/50 matchup post-board. Whatever. Standard is a stupid format right now, and is likely to remain so until ARB rotates out and kills the mistake that is cascade.
Also, anyone claiming a better than 50/50 matchup vs. Jund while remaining viable against the rest of the field (IE not Spread'Em): would you mind posting some actual testing results vs. competent players to back up your claims? This "I am 60/40 vs. Jund with my kitchen table deck" stuff is annoying.
Well... Affinity had one bad-matchup that I remember, KCI, but still that deck didn't wreak havoc on Affinity, but if both decks had optimal draws, then KCI won by a turn.
My opinion on the whole ordeal with this standard format is that people always have preconcieved notions that their deck beats Jund. At states I heard probably 6 people claim "I want to face Jund, my deck is good against Jund," and by the end of the day those 6 people were doing side drafts. My friend 4-0'd Jund with Warp World and I 5-1'd Jund with Grixis, but that one loss was my second loss of the day knocking me out of contention.
Online I have been playing Grixis, Vampires, and a Jund Valakut deck. With Grixis I usually beat Jund, I have played in probably 2 queue's a day for the last few weeks and have only lost a single match to Jund. Vampires I am 50% with, the trick I have discovered is splashing 1 Plains and running a full set of Celestial Purge on the sideboard since the only card that Jund has that is troublesome for me and I cannot deal with is Sprouting Thrynax. My joke deck, Jund Valakut, only sees action in the Tournament Practice room and with that I am like 30% game one, but post sideboard I usually put up a fight.
To be honest, I don't think Jund is the best option, but I would play it if you were afraid to play something that was not the best deck. When I ask pros what I should play for a PTQ season they always tell me the best deck, like Ruben Zoo, but I have found that playing the best deck is not the only way to go about winning. I would run the deck you feel you can best play and best suites your playing style as well as has an at least 50% match-up against the best deck. Also, don't depend on luck, but on play skill. When I began to play the percentages I found myself winning very much more.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sigs. By Le_Gambit
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Some people say spread 'em is the answer, it's great in theory. But I don't see too many spread 'em decks getting top 8 in tourny's. The problem is that if it hiccuips against jund, just for a few turns, it just plain loses. Not to mention not everyone has access to baneslayer angels.
So seriously, if I wanted to have at least a decent shot at winning a tourny, shouldn't I just play jund?
EDIT: okay sure, there's bant and naya, but again, the walletslayer problem.
boros and eldrazi green are still good decks, however, that don't run the baneslayer. they just haven't seen as much success lately.
:sympu:NinjaFaerieStill:sympu:
:symb:Maga, Traitor to Mortals:symb:
even affinity had problems with tooth and nail
Completely false. No deck aside from the mirror had any chance of beating Affinity; even the R/G decks that were purely dedicated to hating out Affinity couldn't post any kind of positive matchup result.
Back then, the format was basically "Play Affinity or don't play T2". Jund is clearly the best deck in T2, but the format hasn't devolved into "Play Jund or don't play Standard".
Standard:
:symu::symb::symw:Solar Flare:symw::symb::symu:
Commander:
:symb::symw:Ghost Council of Orzhova:symw::symb:
Linger on death's door and risk being invited in.
Vampires can and does defeat Naya and Boros. But I just meant from a generalist perspective. A case could certainly be made for Naya and Boros being more versatile and more effective archetypes than something like Vampires or Jacerator in general.
And the same cannot be said for Jund. Say what you will about tactics and play style. Jund should usually eat Vampires alive (or undead, in this case).
Standard:
:symu::symb::symw:Solar Flare:symw::symb::symu:
Commander:
:symb::symw:Ghost Council of Orzhova:symw::symb:
Linger on death's door and risk being invited in.
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
well, post fifth dawn slide had a great matchup with it, but yeah, thats after all the bannings and such anyways.
Junk is a great deck and can hold its own against the entire T2 field, but you're right, it is the most expensive standard deck to make.
Currently playing in standard:
WWWMono white supermacyWWW
WRGThe millenaya falconWRG
Currently playing in extended:
WUXMartyr FoundryWUX
Currently working on:
WUBRGA fully powered 8 man cubeWUBRG
that's ok, because the super-secret variant of jund that i'm playing gets 2-0 against your deck no matter what. thus reestablishing jund superiority.
Well the secret tech in my Junk deck is obviously the best because nobody else knows about, and if they did, they'd instantly scoop, allowing me to win by default.
GW slide. Please pretend you know what you're talking about before you make such a sweeping assertion.
lol
Seriously op, just try and stfu. Jund isn't a win all. Better yet try some jund hate. Some of them win pretty consistently. RDW is really pretty good in this meta, just a lot of people dont like it and even more dont play it.
Nah its just the hate deck had like a 55% win chance against affinity. A deck that was literally about 40 md hate slots was still realitively a coin flip. A deck packed with that much hate should have an outstanding winchance ie 60%+ against the deck it hates. The fact it didn't is what made affinity broke.
Jund actually doesn't do to well in my local meta. The decks that get ran are too randomn and spread em sees play along with an extremly odd but potent esper deck. (though that might be the player, he's run BUW since I've known him and always does very well with it.) Jund typically loses to a mono W deck thats popular around here because of its casual appeal (its soldiers but with 4 capain of the watch and 4 pledge) due to 8 anti jund sb and a decent md.
Jund is just annoying because the cascade chains tend to leave people beaten by it feeling bitter figuring the opponent just had a lucksack win.
I'd to disagree here, I was pretty much crowned king for T2 tournament area, I consistently won with a mono green rogue deck which included threats like Ravenous Baloth, Troll Ascetic, Viridian Zealot, and Viridian Shaman MD. The Red Splash was purely for Shock for Disciple of the Vault. Wooded Foothills were amazing.
My rating went up almost 300 points.
...
Umm talking about T2 here man you can just go away and cry now.
Runeflare Combo competly owns my currenty meta, minus the random RDWs or bad draws against Jund. it ultra cheap compaired to the other top decks around. try and proxy it up and give it a go. my own version makes almost all deck go "oh that sucks." or "F()<k you A$$ h()le!" it's quick and easy beats cruel control 95% of the time. My personal % of croase i don't know how other people place around the world. Where i play many people run counter control.
My 0.02 cents if you don't like it don't listen to me I don't overly care.
There's a reason virtually everyone in my area has stopped caring about T2. I'm just playing Grixis Control (w/ Blightning) for fun. It attacks Jund in precisely the two areas where it is weak (virtual CA via blanking their removal & attacking their hand post-board since their CA comes from resolved spells). But even playing a deck tailor made to beat Jund I still don't manage better than a 50/50 matchup post-board. Whatever. Standard is a stupid format right now, and is likely to remain so until ARB rotates out and kills the mistake that is cascade.
Also, anyone claiming a better than 50/50 matchup vs. Jund while remaining viable against the rest of the field (IE not Spread'Em): would you mind posting some actual testing results vs. competent players to back up your claims? This "I am 60/40 vs. Jund with my kitchen table deck" stuff is annoying.
My opinion on the whole ordeal with this standard format is that people always have preconcieved notions that their deck beats Jund. At states I heard probably 6 people claim "I want to face Jund, my deck is good against Jund," and by the end of the day those 6 people were doing side drafts. My friend 4-0'd Jund with Warp World and I 5-1'd Jund with Grixis, but that one loss was my second loss of the day knocking me out of contention.
Online I have been playing Grixis, Vampires, and a Jund Valakut deck. With Grixis I usually beat Jund, I have played in probably 2 queue's a day for the last few weeks and have only lost a single match to Jund. Vampires I am 50% with, the trick I have discovered is splashing 1 Plains and running a full set of Celestial Purge on the sideboard since the only card that Jund has that is troublesome for me and I cannot deal with is Sprouting Thrynax. My joke deck, Jund Valakut, only sees action in the Tournament Practice room and with that I am like 30% game one, but post sideboard I usually put up a fight.
To be honest, I don't think Jund is the best option, but I would play it if you were afraid to play something that was not the best deck. When I ask pros what I should play for a PTQ season they always tell me the best deck, like Ruben Zoo, but I have found that playing the best deck is not the only way to go about winning. I would run the deck you feel you can best play and best suites your playing style as well as has an at least 50% match-up against the best deck. Also, don't depend on luck, but on play skill. When I began to play the percentages I found myself winning very much more.