The cards are mostly obvious, but if anyone has any specific questions, feel free to ask.
Most of this is basically what we've been talking about, but your changes are very interesting. How has hyppie held up as opposed to running Sorin? I can see why you run Marsh Casualties over Infest tho.
Most of this is basically what we've been talking about, but your changes are very interesting. How has hyppie held up as opposed to running Sorin? I can see why you run Marsh Casualties over Infest tho.
hippie has actually been a bit of an MVP in the hardest matches. He's more than your average threat, and pulls an inordinate amount of hate towards him. When I tested Sorin, he generally wasn't coming online until it was getting too late to matter. By the time I would have 6 lands in play, dropping Sorin was never what I was wanting to do.
The matchups where Sorin was the best (against non mono black control decks), Bloodghast proved to be enough better to not warrent the inclusion. He was always good when played, but never made the difference.
Hippie however, comes down turn 3, draws a kill spell, or starts gaining a lot of card advantage early. He chumps just fine (which is what I do with a lot of my creatures, since I tend to win with Consume Spirit) and causes agro decks to either focus on him - leaving my nighthawks alive (which are better vs. agro) or they don't kill him and instead over extend, and then Marsh casualties clears their board. Giving me another flyer really helps vs. Broodmates (chump on a hippie, marsh casualties or disfigure - dead broodmate). I side him out sometimes game two - against the mirror mostly, but he's never useless game one. If he hits even twice, it has a huge impact on the game.
The only deck I would rather have infest over marsh casualties against is Gobblins. Luckily no one is running it that I've seen.
One thing I'll note is that I run 4x Doom Blade, 3x Disfigure, 4x Gatekeeper, and 4x Tendrils in my MBC, and have Infest in the board. Another thing of note is that I'll be taking Infest out of my sideboard to make room for what I consider to be more powerful cards. All of my spot removal, combined with Gatekeeper and the deathtouchy goodness on my Nighthawks, has made it so that I don't even board Infest in despite having it in the board against decks like Soldiers and Boros. Since I run 4 Black Knight maindeck and 3 Bloodwitch maindeck, my white matchup is almost like a bye for me. Against Boros, I board in my 4 Vampire Hexmage, since the Bushwhacker deck only does a power boost, and I was able to stall out the game (meaning I win) in game 2 between first strikers and Tendrils. Infest is too slow for Boros, and kills a decent amount of my own guys. Infest is too slow for Soldiers, who run 11 toughness boosters (3 Ajani, 4 Honor of the Pure, 4 Armorsmith). And lastly, Infest is too slow for Jund. Bloodbraid has haste, Stag, Broodmate, and Thrinax live through it, and Leech has the pump. Not to mention, keeping my First Strikers alive to block+Disfigure and/or swing when the enemy field is clear is a plus for me.
What my deck does not have right now is Sign in Blood, as I'm having a hard time figuring out what to take out for it. I imagine that the best course of action for me would be to side out some of my spot removal, since Sign would let me draw into it. If I decide to play the MBC on Sunday again, I'll do that.
Anyway, I guess I'll post a list of what I plan on bringing come Sunday if I decide to run this again:
This was basically me making room for some of the cards I wanted to test. The reason the Sideboard is so cluttered is because I'd like to do Sign in Blood this time around, which will of course move some removal to the board. On top of that, I'd like to take Infest out of the board and test out both Haunting Echoes and Scepter of Fugue. I also took Duress out of my sideboard, because it's been a really unimpressive topdeck in the maindeck, and when I moved it to the board, I wound up not wanting it as much as other stuff, since late game that one card might not do much, whereas a resolved Scepter of Fugue will eventually have someone playing everything they have on their own turn. The other card that really disgusted me after testing was Consume Spirit. Maybe I was just spoiled by Corrupt, and I know it can finish a game for me, but I hated drawing into it early game and wound up wishing for board presence late game anyway.
At this point, the only card I could see being an absolutely horrible topdeck late late game is probably Quest for the Gravelord, which at times pisses me off. It's my favorite play turn one, since I kill so much stuff I usually get a 5/5 pretty easily, but it's also the card I hate to see the most in the late game.
By the way, my meta consists of:
Sphinx/Grixis Control
White Weenie/Midrange
Naya Zoo
Jund
Boros Bushwhacker
Warp World
R/B Aggro
Spanish Inquisition
The decks that Top 4/8 most consistently are the White decks, my MBC deck, Spanish Inquisition, Naya Zoo, and Jund. Two Jund players split the top last weekend, while I made the biggest play mistake of my life in the Top 8 (I don't even want to share it, let's just say reading cards is tech), but placed 1st the weekend prior.
One thing I'll note is that I run 4x Doom Blade, 3x Disfigure, 4x Gatekeeper, and 4x Tendrils in my MBC, and have Infest in the board. Another thing of note is that I'll be taking Infest out of my sideboard to make room for what I consider to be more powerful cards. All of my spot removal, combined with Gatekeeper and the deathtouchy goodness on my Nighthawks, has made it so that I don't even board Infest in despite having it in the board against decks like Soldiers and Boros. Since I run 4 Black Knight maindeck and 3 Bloodwitch maindeck, my white matchup is almost like a bye for me. Against Boros, I board in my 4 Vampire Hexmage, since the Bushwhacker deck only does a power boost, and I was able to stall out the game (meaning I win) in game 2 between first strikers and Tendrils. Infest is too slow for Boros, and kills a decent amount of my own guys. Infest is too slow for Soldiers, who run 11 toughness boosters (3 Ajani, 4 Honor of the Pure, 4 Armorsmith). And lastly, Infest is too slow for Jund. Bloodbraid has haste, Stag, Broodmate, and Thrinax live through it, and Leech has the pump. Not to mention, keeping my First Strikers alive to block+Disfigure and/or swing when the enemy field is clear is a plus for me.
What my deck does not have right now is Sign in Blood, as I'm having a hard time figuring out what to take out for it. I imagine that the best course of action for me would be to side out some of my spot removal, since Sign would let me draw into it. If I decide to play the MBC on Sunday again, I'll do that.
Anyway, I guess I'll post a list of what I plan on bringing come Sunday if I decide to run this again:
This was basically me making room for some of the cards I wanted to test. The reason the Sideboard is so cluttered is because I'd like to do Sign in Blood this time around, which will of course move some removal to the board. On top of that, I'd like to take Infest out of the board and test out both Haunting Echoes and Scepter of Fugue. I also took Duress out of my sideboard, because it's been a really unimpressive topdeck in the maindeck, and when I moved it to the board, I wound up not wanting it as much as other stuff, since late game that one card might not do much, whereas a resolved Scepter of Fugue will eventually have someone playing everything they have on their own turn. The other card that really disgusted me after testing was Consume Spirit. Maybe I was just spoiled by Corrupt, and I know it can finish a game for me, but I hated drawing into it early game and wound up wishing for board presence late game anyway.
At this point, the only card I could see being an absolutely horrible topdeck late late game is probably Quest for the Gravelord, which at times pisses me off. It's my favorite play turn one, since I kill so much stuff I usually get a 5/5 pretty easily, but it's also the card I hate to see the most in the late game.
By the way, my meta consists of:
Sphinx/Grixis Control
White Weenie/Midrange
Naya Zoo
Jund
Boros Bushwhacker
Warp World
R/B Aggro
Spanish Inquisition
The decks that Top 4/8 most consistently are the White decks, my MBC deck, Spanish Inquisition, Naya Zoo, and Jund. Two Jund players split the top last weekend, while I made the biggest play mistake of my life in the Top 8 (I don't even want to share it, let's just say reading cards is tech), but placed 1st the weekend prior.
I feel I have a pretty good match up with all decks other then jund.
I just played 2 matches and went 1-2 and 0-2. Its sick that jund is so good. T5 Mind Sludge wins games. The Sb isn't done yet but I really like Sadistic Scrament , Haunting Echos has pretty much won me every game I have played it, and never sad to see Sorin Markov. I would think making the SB against Jund would be going in the right direction. Let me know what you think and your ideas!
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T2 Decks
:symb:The Night Mono Black Control:symb:
:symw::symr::symu:IonaMorph:symw::symr::symu:
As explained in the paragraph, I hated topdecking it when I had it maindeck and then preferred either Mind Sludge or repeatable discard out of the board, leaving it a card in my 75 that I wasn't using. If control becomes more popular around here, I'll probably throw it back in.
I would think making the SB against Jund would be going in the right direction. Let me know what you think and your ideas!
Against Jund I side in 3 Bloodghasts, 4 Deathmarks, 1 Tendrils of Corruption, and 3 Hexmages. I side out 3 marsh casualties, 3 Consume Spirit, 3 Hypnotic Specters, and 1 Malakir Bloodwitch.
If that helps you at all.
Reasons: First Strike from the Hexmages are awesome vs. Bloodbraid, and they kill Planeswalkers. Deathmarks kill most of the relevant creatures in the deck for 1 mana. Tendrils kills Broodmates and stuff and gains you life (which is really solid against Jund), and Bloodghasts kill a lot of their stuff, come back from their sweepers, and generally are a pain to get rid of (you hold land after you have 5 on the board and only play one to bring back a bloodghast).
Marsh casualties are too slow vs. Jund, Consume spirit has the same problem, Hypies never live long enough to generate any card advantage, and can be sweeped, and Bloodwitch is a bit too slow and pro white doesn't do anything.
Bloodwitch is a bit too slow and pro white doesn't do anything.
Your right, she really is a dead card, well not dead, but just doesn't do much in the Jund match up, a good target for bit blast...Bloodghast would be worth testing for sure, I think he would also be good vs a control match up.
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T2 Decks
:symb:The Night Mono Black Control:symb:
:symw::symr::symu:IonaMorph:symw::symr::symu:
Your right, she really is a dead card, well not dead, but just doesn't do much in the Jund match up, a good target for bit blast...Bloodghast would be worth testing for sure, I think he would also be good vs a control match up.
Very good. If you can draw out paths for other creatures, he's unstoppable.
As explained in the paragraph, I hated topdecking it when I had it maindeck and then preferred either Mind Sludge or repeatable discard out of the board, leaving it a card in my 75 that I wasn't using. If control becomes more popular around here, I'll probably throw it back in.
Apologies, my eyes skipped over that part.
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Against Jund I side in 3 Bloodghasts, 4 Deathmarks, 1 Tendrils of Corruption, and 3 Hexmages. I side out 3 marsh casualties, 3 Consume Spirit, 3 Hypnotic Specters, and 1 Malakir Bloodwitch.
If that helps you at all.
Reasons: First Strike from the Hexmages are awesome vs. Bloodbraid, and they kill Planeswalkers. Deathmarks kill most of the relevant creatures in the deck for 1 mana. Tendrils kills Broodmates and stuff and gains you life (which is really solid against Jund), and Bloodghasts kill a lot of their stuff, come back from their sweepers, and generally are a pain to get rid of (you hold land after you have 5 on the board and only play one to bring back a bloodghast).
Marsh casualties are too slow vs. Jund, Consume spirit has the same problem, Hypies never live long enough to generate any card advantage, and can be sweeped, and Bloodwitch is a bit too slow and pro white doesn't do anything.
I'm sorry, but what does bloodghast kill?
Bloodwitch, at the very least trades with half a dragon, gains you 1/2 life. There are combat synergies between the 4/4 body and disfigures. Saying she dies to terminate/bituminous blast is not a valid argument, as everything else in the deck dies to it.
@powurz - It is NOT a dead draw late game, you can use them to protect your planeswalkers, your bloodwitches, your tendrils etc. This is just like saying path to exile is a bad card since its a poor topdeck after you cast day of judgement.
Hexmage is almost boarded in for every matchup, does anyone have opinions on having him mainboard? She's a 2 power 1st striker that eats lightning against red decks. She scares putrid leech often enough against jund. She kills planeswalkers too. The only thing SHE doesnt DO is clean your laundry. Theres an issue with too many creatures drawing removal spells, but your kill condition are also creatures, and diverting some of them away from your bloodwitch and nighthawks are always welcome.
Here's a list of played removal spells in the format, and their breakdown against another 2 drop.
Disfigure - affected, gives them a target they otherwise wouldnt have
Doomblade - No Issue
Lightning bolt - Good, saves you 3 life
Burst lightning - Good, saves you 1 dead bloodwitch
Terminate - Saves you 1 dead bloodwitch
Maelstrom pulse - saves you 1 dead anything
Path to exile - Free Land
Oblivion Ring - Saves you one dead anything
Edit for poor temper, lack sleep, sorry if I offended anyone.
Hexmage is almost boarded in for every matchup, does anyone have opinions on having him mainboard? She's a 2 power 1st striker that eats lightning against red decks. She scares putrid leech often enough against jund. She kills planeswalkers too. The only thing SHE doesnt DO is clean your laundry. Theres an issue with too many creatures drawing removal spells, but your kill condition are also creatures, and diverting some of them away from your bloodwitch and nighthawks are always welcome.
Here's a list of played removal spells in the format, and their breakdown against another 2 drop.
Disfigure - affected, gives them a target they otherwise wouldnt have
Doomblade - No Issue
Lightning bolt - Good, saves you 3 life
Burst lightning - Good, saves you 1 dead bloodwitch
Terminate - Saves you 1 dead bloodwitch
Maelstrom pulse - saves you 1 dead anything
Path to exile - Free Land
Oblivion Ring - Saves you one dead anything
Edit for poor temper, lack sleep, sorry if I offended anyone.
I'd rather keep them in the board because I find them more useful after game 1 for those reasons. I like using them as anti-aggro mini-walls that stall the ground better after they board out some of their removal once they realise you're running less creatures than them. At least, that's usually the logic I use anyway.
Incidentally, for the sake of comparison and whatever, I think I've decided this is the list I'm going to run (pending further testing with Hyppie/Nyx):
What do you think? It's very similar to a lot of lists out there but I'm happiest with these numbers (so far). I think 25 lands is necessary for this deck, but I wish Consume Spirit was better to bump it to 3 copies to have, y'know, something else to do with it all!
The miser's Haunting Echoes is awesome, but you don't want to see it all the time, hence 1 copy. Also left Sludge at 2 because it's a bad topdeck, and I expect a lot of aggro where it won't be as relevant. If I'm up against control, there's a 3rd in the board.
Speaking of which, it's geared to hose Jund as best as I think we can do for now. That matchup is a coin-toss at best after board anyway. If they hit a Blightning it REALLY hurts.
One problem I'm having is against Time Seive combo though. Sometimes they just toally outrace me. Can I get some help there from the board? Is Sacrament actually worth putting in there for it?
I'd rather keep them in the board because I find them more useful after game 1 for those reasons. I like using them as anti-aggro mini-walls that stall the ground better after they board out some of their removal once they realise you're running less creatures than them. At least, that's usually the logic I use anyway.
Incidentally, for the sake of comparison and whatever, I think I've decided this is the list I'm going to run (pending further testing with Hyppie/Nyx):
What do you think? It's very similar to a lot of lists out there but I'm happiest with these numbers (so far). I think 25 lands is necessary for this deck, but I wish Consume Spirit was better to bump it to 3 copies to have, y'know, something else to do with it all!
The miser's Haunting Echoes is awesome, but you don't want to see it all the time, hence 1 copy. Also left Sludge at 2 because it's a bad topdeck, and I expect a lot of aggro where it won't be as relevant. If I'm up against control, there's a 3rd in the board.
Speaking of which, it's geared to hose Jund as best as I think we can do for now. That matchup is a coin-toss at best after board anyway. If they hit a Blightning it REALLY hurts.
One problem I'm having is against Time Seive combo though. Sometimes they just toally outrace me. Can I get some help there from the board? Is Sacrament actually worth putting in there for it?
Its almost the same as mine, except I have infest over consume spirit. I think a sweeper is really important vs white weenie(and the landfall beatdown deck from philly), elspeth and conquerer's pledge are nightmares that eat up sacrifice effects for free.
They're pretty good against vampires as well, taking out most of they early drops.
Blightnings hurt against every deck, nothing we can do but suck it up.. sigh..
If you have problems against time sieve I'd suggest some number of pithing needles. Between needles, sludges and duress you should do fairly well against timesieve combo.
The MD needles work for many reasons. I use them regularly to stop Unearth, PL, PW's, etc. The SB'ed Earth are there to kill Valakut and Emeria. The deck is pretty resilient, and the only real close matches are Cascade, so far. They should win, but they never seem to. If I can stop the Leech early and Duress Blightning, them I'm in great shape.
No bloodghast please.. Mainboard needles are pretty decent if your meta is control oriented. I'll cut 1 liliana for the last SiB, liliana is very poor against non-control strategies.
No bloodghast please.. Mainboard needles are pretty decent if your meta is control oriented. I'll cut 1 liliana for the last SiB, liliana is very poor against non-control strategies.
I agree about Liliana, but the meta here is about 50/50 aggro and control. She's helps control the Sphinx/Baneslayer decks, as well as MWC and Valakut.
On Bloodghast, not only is he a recurring threat versus control, even in aggro matchups, when I drop him early, say turn 2, he's great to pump up the Bloodwitch drain. Drop your 5th land, they recur, play Bloodwitch and then profit. It hasn't tested poorly, so far; but I understand your concern.
I agree about Liliana, but the meta here is about 50/50 aggro and control. She's helps control the Sphinx/Baneslayer decks, as well as MWC and Valakut.
On Bloodghast, not only is he a recurring threat versus control, even in aggro matchups, when I drop him early, say turn 2, he's great to pump up the Bloodwitch drain. Drop your 5th land, they recur, play Bloodwitch and then profit. It hasn't tested poorly, so far; but I understand your concern.
Vampire Nighthawk can gain you just as much life than the 'extra' trigger that you'd get from the Bloodwitch with Bloodghast in play after one swing/chump block, and acts as removal as well. It's the closest this deck has to a black version of Finks. I really think Bloodghast's home is Vamp.Aggro, or at most in the SB vs. control.
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I agree about Liliana, but the meta here is about 50/50 aggro and control. She's helps control the Sphinx/Baneslayer decks, as well as MWC and Valakut.
On Bloodghast, not only is he a recurring threat versus control, even in aggro matchups, when I drop him early, say turn 2, he's great to pump up the Bloodwitch drain. Drop your 5th land, they recur, play Bloodwitch and then profit. It hasn't tested poorly, so far; but I understand your concern.
I'm gonna assume here any aggro deck in the format can out race bloodghast, they're just not gonna waste time trying kill it. any burn spell will be directed at your face, removal will be spent on actual blockers etc.
Okay yes I know this is just theory but it just does not seem that Jund should be a bad match up if you do not give them targets to cast Bit Blast on until either their hand is in the bin or you can gut their deck with Echoes. Yes they still have BBE but without the Ram Gang their just not pushing damage.
The winning Philly deck ran 15 creatures 4 Thrinax, 4 BBE, 4 Leech, 3 Dragons. Okay we can pack more removal than they have creatures, have ways to get their Dragons out of their deck--Sadistic Sacrament, and can win without a creature seeing the board (Soren life to 10, followed by a big Consume Spirit--not the best but it is possible). They are banking on their free spells to net them advantage--don't let them cast their Bit Blast.
With Disfigure, Infest, Doom Blade, Tendrils, Deathmark, and Consume Spirit there is more than enough single target removal to not commit a creature to the board. With no Ram Gangs the only hasty they got is the Elf which is easily dealt with Disfigure. Doom Blade for the Dragon token, Deathmark/Tendrils/Consume for the Leech, Thrinax, Dragon. Infest for the tokens. Duress for their Garruks, Hexmages are fine for them as well as they do not stay on board. What is our win? Well eventually to play a beater after their hand is dealt with of course. Yes I am suggesting that against Jund the Gatekeepers are not needed nor are the Nighthawks. Witches stay for a win con after their hand and potentially deck is gutted with Duress/Sludge/Echoes
Okay yes I know this is just theory but it just does not seem that Jund should be a bad match up if you do not give them targets to cast Bit Blast on until either their hand is in the bin or you can gut their deck with Echoes. Yes they still have BBE but without the Ram Gang their just not pushing damage.
The winning Philly deck ran 15 creatures 4 Thrinax, 4 BBE, 4 Leech, 3 Dragons. Okay we can pack more removal than they have creatures, have ways to get their Dragons out of their deck--Sadistic Sacrament, and can win without a creature seeing the board (Soren life to 10, followed by a big Consume Spirit--not the best but it is possible). They are banking on their free spells to net them advantage--don't let them cast their Bit Blast.
With Disfigure, Infest, Doom Blade, Tendrils, Deathmark, and Consume Spirit there is more than enough single target removal to not commit a creature to the board. With no Ram Gangs the only hasty they got is the Elf which is easily dealt with Disfigure. Doom Blade for the Dragon token, Deathmark/Tendrils/Consume for the Leech, Thrinax, Dragon. Infest for the tokens. Duress for their Garruks, Hexmages are fine for them as well as they do not stay on board. What is our win? Well eventually to play a beater after their hand is dealt with of course. Yes I am suggesting that against Jund the Gatekeepers are not needed nor are the Nighthawks. Witches stay for a win con after their hand and potentially deck is gutted with Duress/Sludge/Echoes
Jund Aggro is going to be a rough one--Lightning Bolts, Pulses and Bit Blasts take out Vampires' main beaters easily, and if they feel really spunky, they could use a Jund Charm to remove a dead Bloodghast or two before you can play a land.
The best bet to win will be hand disruption/library hate. I myself pack Sadistic Sacrament, Duress and Mind Sludge in the sideboard. For any creature they play, I have Tendrils and Disfigure (for now, I play Disfigure over Duress in the main, but as my meta evolves, I'll shift those two from MD to SB accordingly).
You could play Sorin Markov and pray they don't have a Pulse, Nocturnus or Bloodwitch and pray for no Bit Blasts, or a swarm of smaller Vamps and pray they have no Jund Charm.
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Currently Playing:
Standard: Vampires, U/W Control, Jund Cascade
Extended: Faeries!
Elder-Dragon Highlander: Niv-Mizzet, Mayael the Anima, Korlash, Teneb the Harvester, Jaya Ballard, Momir Vig, Darigaaz the Igniter, Horde of Notions (5-color)
Just curious if anyone has tried running Bloodcheif Ascension? Seems with a resolved Mind Sludge it would win you the game pretty easily. I can understand that it might be too slow to get online though if you aren't running cheap fast critters right away other than Gast. Also, is it just flat out racing versus Iona builds? I saw a few of those this week. Seems like the more mono-colored decks show up, the more she'll be seen in Cobra Control type builds.
Just curious if anyone has tried running Bloodcheif Ascension? Seems with a resolved Mind Sludge it would win you the game pretty easily. I can understand that it might be too slow to get online though if you aren't running cheap fast critters right away other than Gast. Also, is it just flat out racing versus Iona builds? I saw a few of those this week. Seems like the more mono-colored decks show up, the more she'll be seen in Cobra Control type builds.
First off, theres no such thing is a cobra control deck. Cobra is a tempo generating creature, not a mana engine for combo. Let alone an accelerator for control.
Second, ascension is bad in so many levels.. It doesnt affect board position, we have no ways of triggering it on their turn, few ways to do it our own.
Third, if you resolve a mind sludge you should win. period.
Fourthly, no, we don't run bloodghast either. You're either in the wrong forum or did not bother reading the last 5 pages.
Fifth, we've said before, plan against mono white control involve any 2 of haunting echoes/liliana/mind sludge. You should have more than enough time to pull it off before turn 9.
Third, if you resolve a mind sludge you should win. period.
Mind Sludge is good but not that strong that it wins game alone... against a deck with Jace, howling mines or heavy on cascade, 1 mind sludge is often not sufficient... at least this is my experience
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Mind Sludge is good but not that strong that it wins game alone... against a deck with Jace, howling mines or heavy on cascade, 1 mind sludge is often not sufficient... at least this is my experience
You are right here.
The cascade deck seems to be most problematic, stealing initiative out of no where. But think about it this way, had you not cast the mind sludge, they you have an enlisted ultimatum AND a full hand.
I wouldn't worry about howling mine or jace though, since these let you draw into more discard, planeswalkers and haunting echoes.
If mill/fog becomes dominant we can try to accommodate more disruption in the sideboard.
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Most of this is basically what we've been talking about, but your changes are very interesting. How has hyppie held up as opposed to running Sorin? I can see why you run Marsh Casualties over Infest tho.
hippie has actually been a bit of an MVP in the hardest matches. He's more than your average threat, and pulls an inordinate amount of hate towards him. When I tested Sorin, he generally wasn't coming online until it was getting too late to matter. By the time I would have 6 lands in play, dropping Sorin was never what I was wanting to do.
The matchups where Sorin was the best (against non mono black control decks), Bloodghast proved to be enough better to not warrent the inclusion. He was always good when played, but never made the difference.
Hippie however, comes down turn 3, draws a kill spell, or starts gaining a lot of card advantage early. He chumps just fine (which is what I do with a lot of my creatures, since I tend to win with Consume Spirit) and causes agro decks to either focus on him - leaving my nighthawks alive (which are better vs. agro) or they don't kill him and instead over extend, and then Marsh casualties clears their board. Giving me another flyer really helps vs. Broodmates (chump on a hippie, marsh casualties or disfigure - dead broodmate). I side him out sometimes game two - against the mirror mostly, but he's never useless game one. If he hits even twice, it has a huge impact on the game.
The only deck I would rather have infest over marsh casualties against is Gobblins. Luckily no one is running it that I've seen.
I'd love input and advice!
What my deck does not have right now is Sign in Blood, as I'm having a hard time figuring out what to take out for it. I imagine that the best course of action for me would be to side out some of my spot removal, since Sign would let me draw into it. If I decide to play the MBC on Sunday again, I'll do that.
Anyway, I guess I'll post a list of what I plan on bringing come Sunday if I decide to run this again:
23 Swamp
2 Gargoyle Castle
Creatures - 15
4 Black Knight
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
3 Quest for the Gravelord
Planeswalkers - 2
2 Sorin Markov
Sorceries - 6
2 Mind Sludge
4 Sign in Blood
Instants - 9
2 Doom Blade
3 Disfigure
4 Tendrils of Corruption
3 Vampire Hexmage
2 Scepter of Fugue
1 Mind Sludge
1 Disfigure
1 Malakir Bloodwitch
2 Doom Blade
2 Haunting Echoes
3 Deathmark
This was basically me making room for some of the cards I wanted to test. The reason the Sideboard is so cluttered is because I'd like to do Sign in Blood this time around, which will of course move some removal to the board. On top of that, I'd like to take Infest out of the board and test out both Haunting Echoes and Scepter of Fugue. I also took Duress out of my sideboard, because it's been a really unimpressive topdeck in the maindeck, and when I moved it to the board, I wound up not wanting it as much as other stuff, since late game that one card might not do much, whereas a resolved Scepter of Fugue will eventually have someone playing everything they have on their own turn. The other card that really disgusted me after testing was Consume Spirit. Maybe I was just spoiled by Corrupt, and I know it can finish a game for me, but I hated drawing into it early game and wound up wishing for board presence late game anyway.
At this point, the only card I could see being an absolutely horrible topdeck late late game is probably Quest for the Gravelord, which at times pisses me off. It's my favorite play turn one, since I kill so much stuff I usually get a 5/5 pretty easily, but it's also the card I hate to see the most in the late game.
By the way, my meta consists of:
Sphinx/Grixis Control
White Weenie/Midrange
Naya Zoo
Jund
Boros Bushwhacker
Warp World
R/B Aggro
Spanish Inquisition
The decks that Top 4/8 most consistently are the White decks, my MBC deck, Spanish Inquisition, Naya Zoo, and Jund. Two Jund players split the top last weekend, while I made the biggest play mistake of my life in the Top 8 (I don't even want to share it, let's just say reading cards is tech), but placed 1st the weekend prior.
Why no Duress?
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Malakir Bloodwitch
4x Tendrils of Corruption
3x Doom Blade
2x Infest
4x Sign in Blood
4x Duress
3x Mind Sludge
2x Consume Spirit
1x Haunting Echoes
22x Swamp
2x Gargoyle Castle
4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Pithing Needle
3x Disfigure
3x Sadistic Sacrament
1x Malakir Bloodwitch
I feel I have a pretty good match up with all decks other then jund.
I just played 2 matches and went 1-2 and 0-2. Its sick that jund is so good. T5 Mind Sludge wins games. The Sb isn't done yet but I really like Sadistic Scrament , Haunting Echos has pretty much won me every game I have played it, and never sad to see Sorin Markov. I would think making the SB against Jund would be going in the right direction. Let me know what you think and your ideas!
:symb:The Night Mono Black Control:symb:
:symw::symr::symu:IonaMorph:symw::symr::symu:
As explained in the paragraph, I hated topdecking it when I had it maindeck and then preferred either Mind Sludge or repeatable discard out of the board, leaving it a card in my 75 that I wasn't using. If control becomes more popular around here, I'll probably throw it back in.
Against Jund I side in 3 Bloodghasts, 4 Deathmarks, 1 Tendrils of Corruption, and 3 Hexmages. I side out 3 marsh casualties, 3 Consume Spirit, 3 Hypnotic Specters, and 1 Malakir Bloodwitch.
If that helps you at all.
Reasons: First Strike from the Hexmages are awesome vs. Bloodbraid, and they kill Planeswalkers. Deathmarks kill most of the relevant creatures in the deck for 1 mana. Tendrils kills Broodmates and stuff and gains you life (which is really solid against Jund), and Bloodghasts kill a lot of their stuff, come back from their sweepers, and generally are a pain to get rid of (you hold land after you have 5 on the board and only play one to bring back a bloodghast).
Marsh casualties are too slow vs. Jund, Consume spirit has the same problem, Hypies never live long enough to generate any card advantage, and can be sweeped, and Bloodwitch is a bit too slow and pro white doesn't do anything.
I'd love input and advice!
Your right, she really is a dead card, well not dead, but just doesn't do much in the Jund match up, a good target for bit blast...Bloodghast would be worth testing for sure, I think he would also be good vs a control match up.
:symb:The Night Mono Black Control:symb:
:symw::symr::symu:IonaMorph:symw::symr::symu:
Very good. If you can draw out paths for other creatures, he's unstoppable.
I'd love input and advice!
Apologies, my eyes skipped over that part.
I'm sorry, but what does bloodghast kill?
Bloodwitch, at the very least trades with half a dragon, gains you 1/2 life. There are combat synergies between the 4/4 body and disfigures. Saying she dies to terminate/bituminous blast is not a valid argument, as everything else in the deck dies to it.
@powurz - It is NOT a dead draw late game, you can use them to protect your planeswalkers, your bloodwitches, your tendrils etc. This is just like saying path to exile is a bad card since its a poor topdeck after you cast day of judgement.
TLDR:
Infest > Marsh Casualties
Haunting Echoes > Sadistic Sacrament
Mind Sludge > Opponent
Duress > Sludge
Some issues I'd like to throw out..
Hexmage is almost boarded in for every matchup, does anyone have opinions on having him mainboard? She's a 2 power 1st striker that eats lightning against red decks. She scares putrid leech often enough against jund. She kills planeswalkers too. The only thing SHE doesnt DO is clean your laundry. Theres an issue with too many creatures drawing removal spells, but your kill condition are also creatures, and diverting some of them away from your bloodwitch and nighthawks are always welcome.
Here's a list of played removal spells in the format, and their breakdown against another 2 drop.
Disfigure - affected, gives them a target they otherwise wouldnt have
Doomblade - No Issue
Lightning bolt - Good, saves you 3 life
Burst lightning - Good, saves you 1 dead bloodwitch
Terminate - Saves you 1 dead bloodwitch
Maelstrom pulse - saves you 1 dead anything
Path to exile - Free Land
Oblivion Ring - Saves you one dead anything
Edit for poor temper, lack sleep, sorry if I offended anyone.
I'd rather keep them in the board because I find them more useful after game 1 for those reasons. I like using them as anti-aggro mini-walls that stall the ground better after they board out some of their removal once they realise you're running less creatures than them. At least, that's usually the logic I use anyway.
Incidentally, for the sake of comparison and whatever, I think I've decided this is the list I'm going to run (pending further testing with Hyppie/Nyx):
What do you think? It's very similar to a lot of lists out there but I'm happiest with these numbers (so far). I think 25 lands is necessary for this deck, but I wish Consume Spirit was better to bump it to 3 copies to have, y'know, something else to do with it all!
The miser's Haunting Echoes is awesome, but you don't want to see it all the time, hence 1 copy. Also left Sludge at 2 because it's a bad topdeck, and I expect a lot of aggro where it won't be as relevant. If I'm up against control, there's a 3rd in the board.
Speaking of which, it's geared to hose Jund as best as I think we can do for now. That matchup is a coin-toss at best after board anyway. If they hit a Blightning it REALLY hurts.
One problem I'm having is against Time Seive combo though. Sometimes they just toally outrace me. Can I get some help there from the board? Is Sacrament actually worth putting in there for it?
Its almost the same as mine, except I have infest over consume spirit. I think a sweeper is really important vs white weenie(and the landfall beatdown deck from philly), elspeth and conquerer's pledge are nightmares that eat up sacrifice effects for free.
They're pretty good against vampires as well, taking out most of they early drops.
Blightnings hurt against every deck, nothing we can do but suck it up.. sigh..
If you have problems against time sieve I'd suggest some number of pithing needles. Between needles, sludges and duress you should do fairly well against timesieve combo.
04 Bloodghast
04 Gatekeeper of Malakir
03 Malakir Bloodwitch
Spells
04 Duress
04 Tendrils of Corruption
03 Sign in Blood
03 Doom Blade
03 Mind Sludge
02 Infest
02 Pithing Needle
02 Liliana Vess
02 Sorin Markov
Lands
18 Swamp
03 Verdant Catacombs
03 Marsh Flats
04 Disfigure
03 Desecrated Earth
02 Infest
02 Pithing Needle
02 Fleshbag Marauder
02 Sadistic Sacrament
The MD needles work for many reasons. I use them regularly to stop Unearth, PL, PW's, etc. The SB'ed Earth are there to kill Valakut and Emeria. The deck is pretty resilient, and the only real close matches are Cascade, so far. They should win, but they never seem to. If I can stop the Leech early and Duress Blightning, them I'm in great shape.
I agree about Liliana, but the meta here is about 50/50 aggro and control. She's helps control the Sphinx/Baneslayer decks, as well as MWC and Valakut.
On Bloodghast, not only is he a recurring threat versus control, even in aggro matchups, when I drop him early, say turn 2, he's great to pump up the Bloodwitch drain. Drop your 5th land, they recur, play Bloodwitch and then profit. It hasn't tested poorly, so far; but I understand your concern.
Vampire Nighthawk can gain you just as much life than the 'extra' trigger that you'd get from the Bloodwitch with Bloodghast in play after one swing/chump block, and acts as removal as well. It's the closest this deck has to a black version of Finks. I really think Bloodghast's home is Vamp.Aggro, or at most in the SB vs. control.
I'm gonna assume here any aggro deck in the format can out race bloodghast, they're just not gonna waste time trying kill it. any burn spell will be directed at your face, removal will be spent on actual blockers etc.
The winning Philly deck ran 15 creatures 4 Thrinax, 4 BBE, 4 Leech, 3 Dragons. Okay we can pack more removal than they have creatures, have ways to get their Dragons out of their deck--Sadistic Sacrament, and can win without a creature seeing the board (Soren life to 10, followed by a big Consume Spirit--not the best but it is possible). They are banking on their free spells to net them advantage--don't let them cast their Bit Blast.
With Disfigure, Infest, Doom Blade, Tendrils, Deathmark, and Consume Spirit there is more than enough single target removal to not commit a creature to the board. With no Ram Gangs the only hasty they got is the Elf which is easily dealt with Disfigure. Doom Blade for the Dragon token, Deathmark/Tendrils/Consume for the Leech, Thrinax, Dragon. Infest for the tokens. Duress for their Garruks, Hexmages are fine for them as well as they do not stay on board. What is our win? Well eventually to play a beater after their hand is dealt with of course. Yes I am suggesting that against Jund the Gatekeepers are not needed nor are the Nighthawks. Witches stay for a win con after their hand and potentially deck is gutted with Duress/Sludge/Echoes
Jund Aggro is going to be a rough one--Lightning Bolts, Pulses and Bit Blasts take out Vampires' main beaters easily, and if they feel really spunky, they could use a Jund Charm to remove a dead Bloodghast or two before you can play a land.
The best bet to win will be hand disruption/library hate. I myself pack Sadistic Sacrament, Duress and Mind Sludge in the sideboard. For any creature they play, I have Tendrils and Disfigure (for now, I play Disfigure over Duress in the main, but as my meta evolves, I'll shift those two from MD to SB accordingly).
You could play Sorin Markov and pray they don't have a Pulse, Nocturnus or Bloodwitch and pray for no Bit Blasts, or a swarm of smaller Vamps and pray they have no Jund Charm.
Standard: Vampires, U/W Control, Jund Cascade
Extended: Faeries!
Elder-Dragon Highlander: Niv-Mizzet, Mayael the Anima, Korlash, Teneb the Harvester, Jaya Ballard, Momir Vig, Darigaaz the Igniter, Horde of Notions (5-color)
Just curious if anyone has tried running Bloodcheif Ascension? Seems with a resolved Mind Sludge it would win you the game pretty easily. I can understand that it might be too slow to get online though if you aren't running cheap fast critters right away other than Gast. Also, is it just flat out racing versus Iona builds? I saw a few of those this week. Seems like the more mono-colored decks show up, the more she'll be seen in Cobra Control type builds.
First off, theres no such thing is a cobra control deck. Cobra is a tempo generating creature, not a mana engine for combo. Let alone an accelerator for control.
Second, ascension is bad in so many levels.. It doesnt affect board position, we have no ways of triggering it on their turn, few ways to do it our own.
Third, if you resolve a mind sludge you should win. period.
Fourthly, no, we don't run bloodghast either. You're either in the wrong forum or did not bother reading the last 5 pages.
Fifth, we've said before, plan against mono white control involve any 2 of haunting echoes/liliana/mind sludge. You should have more than enough time to pull it off before turn 9.
It really will win you games when you can nab that blightning before it hits you, or nab the counter so your sludge/wincon will get down.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=299420
Mind Sludge is good but not that strong that it wins game alone... against a deck with Jace, howling mines or heavy on cascade, 1 mind sludge is often not sufficient... at least this is my experience
Her ashes new-create another heir
As great in admiration as herself.”
—William Shakespeare, King Henry the Eighth
You are right here.
The cascade deck seems to be most problematic, stealing initiative out of no where. But think about it this way, had you not cast the mind sludge, they you have an enlisted ultimatum AND a full hand.
I wouldn't worry about howling mine or jace though, since these let you draw into more discard, planeswalkers and haunting echoes.
If mill/fog becomes dominant we can try to accommodate more disruption in the sideboard.