your playing mill would you reveal it in game 1 on turn 1 with a crab or would you wait a turn to path to exile and hopefully they will search and you hit them with archive trap? I was just wondering will be testing out this theory
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I would say if you have a Hedron Crab that you can use and your goal is to actually win the game, then yes, you should reveal that you are playing mill by playing mill.
well it depends. do you have the p2e and traps in hand?If you do, read further.If not, play the crab. Also, do you know what your opponent is playing?
If you are playing against an aggro deck, the right play is to play kraken hatchling first turn and then p2e their one drop when it attacks.
If you are playing control, the right play is the crab. depending on the control deck, they wont really get rid of it soon. it will probably stay until turn 3 or 4.
The people that play legacy / vintage always amuse me. They want their formats to be represented more. They want more tournaments. But when anyone suggests allowing more people access to the formats by reprinting cards, the same people start screaming about the reprint policy.
Either way, it benefits you. The crab can't live through a goblin guide or warren instigator for example. I normally take the damage or put a bigger blocker on the field by turn 2-3. So if they path it, you're one land faster than them. You can use that mana to counter something they play.
The majority of the decks you play against are going to have fetchlands, so I would go ahead and play the crab and not even worry about the path to exile "combo", since any fetchland will active archive trap's trap cost. Worst possible case, you might have to hardcast it on turn 5.
Obvious exception being if you have a hand with 3+ archive traps, then you might want to play it sneaky since if you can get them off your chance of winning is pretty high.
The correct play against archive trap is to get a land with path if a land is needed, and not to get a land if it is not needed. So yes, reveal you are playing mill. It might get them to make a terrible misplay by not searching when you path early. The threat of the execution is stronger than the surprise. Also, an early crab can mean a 'dredge' or graveyard loving variant, so they can't be sure you're playing mill.
The idea here is taking your logic a step further, and seeing it from the opponent's eyes. You should jump for joy if you path and they decline to search. You just got an rfg for W with no drawback, which is the strongest creature removal play possible for your deck, and standard in general.
edit: I agree with the exception above by drakantus. I would require 3 or 4 Archive Traps to not play my crab. Even then, the value is marginal.
Personally, if it was the first turn, I'd just drop a Plains and hope to Path/Trap them. Also, with the use of fetches in Standard (I'm talking about you Bushwhacker), you can probably Archive Trap them the first game easily. The only issue is second game and third games, your opponent will be expecting the Trap so they won't crack fetches or use the Path for land unless they know you can't play the Trap, but this means that your Path has no draw back and your opponent is tying up their mana base, which is still good for you.
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I do find it amusingly cool that Path to Exile becomes a 2 for 1 in a mill deck; even if it's ramping them. Or maybe even a 14 for 2, or a 1 for 1 instant speed removal spell with no drawback, for one mana, if they're playing around Archive Trap
if they're at all good, unless they know some of the other cards in your deck, they won't neccesarily put you on mill. they could also put you on that hedron crab-crypt of agadeem-unearth 'combo' deck, so they won't automatically assume you're playing mill until the land drop after you play the crab, when you mill them.
and even if they know enough to put you on mill, if they are so afraid of being hit with archive trap that they refuse to search for a land when you path their creature turn 1/2, congratulations! they just went into your deck, took all your copies of path, and erased all the text after the word 'creature' - you're now running removal that is strictly better than swords to plowshares!
Drop crab on T1 if you want to win. The "surprise" of even triple Archive Trap is only 36 cards. I know I said "only" but that means you still need to realistically mill 8+ more cards to win the game.
Whereas if you drop the crab, chances are they'll still trigger Archive Trap with a fetch or taking the land off a Path (despite knowing you're running mill, most people will risk it and get the land). If they never pop a fetch or take a free land, the game is yours *anyway*.
I do find it amusingly cool that Path to Exile becomes a 2 for 1 in a mill deck; even if it's ramping them. Or maybe even a 14 for 2, or a 1 for 1 instant speed removal spell with no drawback, for one mana, if they're playing around Archive Trap
Mill is not card advantage. In no way is it a 14 for 2 etc.
Lets see, you shouldn't reveal your mill on turn one, like a Zoo deck shouldn't play Wild Nactl on turn one because they might get figured out.... besides maybe you aren't mill, maybe your standard dredge, lol...
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If you are playing against an aggro deck, the right play is to play kraken hatchling first turn and then p2e their one drop when it attacks.
If you are playing control, the right play is the crab. depending on the control deck, they wont really get rid of it soon. it will probably stay until turn 3 or 4.
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Obvious exception being if you have a hand with 3+ archive traps, then you might want to play it sneaky since if you can get them off your chance of winning is pretty high.
The idea here is taking your logic a step further, and seeing it from the opponent's eyes. You should jump for joy if you path and they decline to search. You just got an rfg for W with no drawback, which is the strongest creature removal play possible for your deck, and standard in general.
edit: I agree with the exception above by drakantus. I would require 3 or 4 Archive Traps to not play my crab. Even then, the value is marginal.
But you shouldnt be playing mill anyway unless its for casual.
if they're at all good, unless they know some of the other cards in your deck, they won't neccesarily put you on mill. they could also put you on that hedron crab-crypt of agadeem-unearth 'combo' deck, so they won't automatically assume you're playing mill until the land drop after you play the crab, when you mill them.
and even if they know enough to put you on mill, if they are so afraid of being hit with archive trap that they refuse to search for a land when you path their creature turn 1/2, congratulations! they just went into your deck, took all your copies of path, and erased all the text after the word 'creature' - you're now running removal that is strictly better than swords to plowshares!
Whereas if you drop the crab, chances are they'll still trigger Archive Trap with a fetch or taking the land off a Path (despite knowing you're running mill, most people will risk it and get the land). If they never pop a fetch or take a free land, the game is yours *anyway*.
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Mill is not card advantage. In no way is it a 14 for 2 etc.
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