Simple, straightforward premise. Ramp up to one of the 3 Landfallers. Get your landfall triggers. Win. Garruk is there to help with ramp, and also provide 3/3 blockers if needed. Overrun is also good when Emeria Angel gets on the field to give her birds +3/+3. Only problem is consistency. Is it worth staying b/g/w or Should I stay g/w ? or b/g? Undecided at this point.
I don't know if this build should be in GW Aggro, or this GW Landfall thread, but I made this GW Ramp deck earlier today, and it seems to do reasonably well.
Yes, some of these cards nobody would have expected to make this list, but, I have to disagree. A lot of these are under-rated. Cards like Baloth Cage Trap, even if you don't play it for it's Trap cost, is still good. I hear 4/4 beats with flash for 3GG win games.
Another very under-rated card I feel is Woodcrasher Baloth. Everybody says this guy is a "limited bomb" but is highly unplayable in Std. Really? I mean, one mid-combat Harrow turns this into a 12/12 trampling monstrosity; last I checked, that was pretty good. And it's not like his 4GG mana cost slows him down any, given the type of deck that likes this guy.I played him on T-4 thanks to the KotWO/Borderpost synergy, which those borderposts also help to pump this guy at the same time.
Martial Coup is still a fine contender here, given the mana accel this deck possess. Ideally, these would be Day of Judgment to help counter-act a faster starting deck such as RWG Zoo, but it still seems to be okay. Also, I've only pulled one from my two boxes of ZEN, and this card is quite hard to find.
Noble Hierarch and Steward of Valeron both provide that extra accel, while Steward can also bring in some damage to boot, so he isn't "just another mana dork". On the subject of accel, we also have 3 of Garruk Wildspeaker, and we all know what he is capable of.
The SB is just some generic hate type cards, Vines versus Vampires and other decks with heavy removal, Stomper and the Trap versus the inevitable control deck that does find it's way into Standard, 2 more Journey for extra removal, and a fourth Cage Trap for heavy artifact/Esper decks, or against control decks, in an effort to [attempt to] make them spend their counters on their own turn.
Thoughts/feedback is always welcomed, of course.
Addendum: Yes, I'm missing Knight of the Reliquary, I only have one, and virtually everywhere I've looked they've been out of him. v_v idk what I'd really like to take out for him.
The biggest concern I have for most of the decks that are posted here, is why are they using Noble Hierarch when they are G/W/B and there is no blue in there? Is there a reason he's better than Birds?
Haven't posted here in ages, but I've been lurking, and I thought I'd come back from the dead to get some deckbuilding help. I knew I wasn't the only one who thought of this Landfall idea.
I decided to go with Naya colors so that I could include Plated Geopede and Naya Charm for a much faster win. I thought about going with black for Ob Nixilis, but I don't have the kind of money for all the support cards it needs like Lotus Cobra and Maelstrom Pulse. So red it is! Even if it's only a splash.
I've culled out all the completely dead cards and narrowed it down to that list, but right now I'm trying to figure out if I should run Scute Mob, and if so, what I need to take out for it. Right now, the cards on the chopping block are Steppe Lynx and Dauntless Escort. I put in the two random Escorts as insurance policies against Day of Judgment or any instant-speed spell looking to kill my Emeria Angels or Knights of the Reliquary, but it's not much of an insurance policy against most other white removal, which scoffs at indestructibility. And Lynx is explosive in the early game, but he unfortunately becomes a dead card in late game if I don't have a Knight, so I always find myself going for two of the Nacatls whenever I drop a Ranger of Eos. Any thoughts?
Update: I decided to drop the 2 Escorts and 1 Emeria Angel for a total of 3 Scute Mobs. I figure I'll only need three because I don't wanna draw one in the early game. (He's like the anti-Lynx that way...) Good move?
Damn. This thread doesn't move that often...does it. ._.
Anyway, just looking for some feedback on my Baloth Ramp build. I played it earlier yesterday, but only against one guy, and it was a janky version of BU Vampires, so it wasn't as accurate. I mean, it worked the way it's supposed to, had a lot of raw power. But y'know.
Damn. This thread doesn't move that often...does it. ._.
Anyway, just looking for some feedback on my Baloth Ramp build. I played it earlier yesterday, but only against one guy, and it was a janky version of BU Vampires, so it wasn't as accurate. I mean, it worked the way it's supposed to, had a lot of raw power. But y'know.
The deck looks like it would work pretty well, but reads more like aggro than landfall. I tested mine with 3 of the rampaging baloths (I have 3 promos, wanted to use them), and found them to be too slow.
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The deck looks like it would work pretty well, but reads more like aggro than landfall. I tested mine with 3 of the rampaging baloths (I have 3 promos, wanted to use them), and found them to be too slow.
Thanks dude. I might head over to my bro's house later today and test with him a bit. He doesn't actually have his own deck, so he'll probably use my Naya Zoo like he does at FNM. Maybe he might use my Vampires as well. *shrugs*
Grim Discovery is almost always a 2 for 1. I particularly enjoy it with Dauntless Escort. I can pretty reliably use it to create 2 Landfall triggers Behemoth Sledge should maybe be a sideboard card against something with a lot of blockers. KotR, Baneslayer, Ob Nixilis, etc don't have Trample, so it's handy and I"ve got the mana to cast and use it, but it's probably not the best card for it's slot Rampaging Baloths - I brought this in because I didn't reliably enough have a good beater. I think probably the better thing to do is pull it and put in another baneslayer and something like Harrow. I can cast a 5CMC creature and create landfall on the same turn FAR more often than a 6CMC creature Lotus Cobra - Full of win. Sure, he may get killed sometimes, but Grim Discovery is handy for that too, and it's possible to cast a turn 1BoP and then cast Cobra and Harrow on turn 2. Not likely, or anything, but fun.
thoughts on cards left out
Steppe Lynx - I tried him for a while, looking for something to do early game other than ramp, and he just distracts from the ramping. He has moments of awesomeness, but far too often I wish I'd drawn something else Emeria Angel - A lot of people point out how Lightning Boltable she is, but to me thats not the biggest downside. What does this deck want with a bunch of 1/1 birds? They're too slow. Elspeth and Garruk - Tried Garruk, haven't tried Elspeth. Garruk was nice, and may go back in. Elspeth seems like she's full of win as well. Would take the Behemoth Sledge slot. Day of Judgment - Probably will end up in the sideboard, especially since I have the escorts, but it really depends on what the meta turns out to be. With the escorts and Grim Discovery, I feel like I can recover from it pretty well. Khalni Heart Expedition - Right now I prefer Harrow, but I definitely see the draw. Has anyone tested this and liked it?
So thats what I'm working with. I don't really have anyone to test against right now, anyone have any experience in the meta yet?
I like this build right now, but i need to do more testing for sure.
I really lke the hybrid Landfall/Rock feel that it has. trying to suck the most potential out of each archetype and the balancing is tough.
Behemoth sledge MAY be moved to sideboard... haven't given a ton of thought to the sideboard yet though.
With plenty of sac lands in an aggro environment, it would be nice to have the life gain and the evasion it grants to all my big guys is very welcome as well. Tough choice...
Really wish i had more room for a second Ranger of Eos at least... and possibly another grim discovery.
I like this build right now, but i need to do more testing for sure.
I really lke the hybrid Landfall/Rock feel that it has. trying to suck the most potential out of each archetype and the balancing is tough.
Behemoth sledge MAY be moved to sideboard... haven't given a ton of thought to the sideboard yet though.
With plenty of sac lands in an aggro environment, it would be nice to have the life gain and the evasion it grants to all my big guys is very welcome as well. Tough choice...
Really wish i had more room for a second Ranger of Eos at least... and possibly another grim discovery.
Jesus Christ, -1 Castle +3 Sunpetal Grove/+2 Sunpetal Grove. Your deck does have two six drops that walk like seven drops and three five drops that walk like six drops you know?
Since when did lifegain win tournaments outside of Limited, and Super Blocker Monk?
Drop the equip, and the Grim Discovery, and add your Rangers - I don't see where the tough choice was for where to get slots for him.
Move Duress to Sideboard, and add one more Harrow, another Ob Nixilis, and another Baloth/Path to Exile.
You're missing all these needed cards, and having fun with sideboard material cards maindecked playing rogue build against the meta.
Jesus Christ, -1 Castle +3 Sunpetal Grove/+2 Sunpetal Grove. Your deck does have two six drops that walk like seven drops and three five drops that walk like six drops you know?
Since when did lifegain win tournaments outside of Limited, and Super Blocker Monk?
Drop the equip, and the Grim Discovery, and add your Rangers - I don't see where the tough choice was for where to get slots for him.
Move Duress to Sideboard, and add one more Harrow, another Ob Nixilis, and another Baloth/Path to Exile.
You're missing all these needed cards, and having fun with sideboard material cards maindecked playing rogue build against the meta.
the one of castle and grove are simply search targets for the knight if i ABSOLUTELY need them. can't afford to add any more nonbasics as i'm already walking a thin line between running out of basics as it is and the additional harrow will push it over the edge i think... i will consider dropping the "toolbox" lands and adding more basics for sure though.
grim discovery is amazing in this deck and even though you are probably right in thinking i should drop it, i still think it's better than you realize.
I got in some decent test matches in between rounds and after a tournament today, and while I am still loving the deck, it has a very hard time dealling with discard coupled with removal. Since the deck burns through cards very quickly, getting your big Ob Nixilis / Harrow play swatted out of your hand is rough. Against decks that don't pack a ton of removal however, it is a house since if we topdeck a big threat it gets crazy quickly. I really want to love Baloths, but I think they may be to slow. I think I will be adding in one of the 4 drops I mention below as at least a 2 of, and either going to 2 or 0 Baloths.
I can vouch for the singleton Gargoyle Castle, KotR can tutor it up to block things like Hippy, and it pumps KotR as well. I run 25 lands including the castle and I won't be dropping it.
I can't see the equipment being good maindeck, since so often we're in topdeck mode and need to draw a threat.
Grim Discovery I think may not be optimal, but it's not bad in a deck with 8 fetches, Gargoyle Castle, and a ton of must-kill creatures. Your Cobra/Birds at least will likely not get pathed, and paying 2 for a birds and fetch seems good to me.
Emeria Angel does eat Lightning Bolt and friends, but if not it generates tons of blockers, and if so it ate a bolt that Ob may not eat next turn. I think the slot is needed, as either Garruk, Elspeth, or Emeria. Which one is best is iffy as they all have pros and cons. Something that can generate that kinda of card advantage is needed, and Conqueror's Pledge really doesn't fit the deck or the curve.
Thanks dude. I might head over to my bro's house later today and test with him a bit. He doesn't actually have his own deck, so he'll probably use my Naya Zoo like he does at FNM. Maybe he might use my Vampires as well. *shrugs*
If you can, try testing against the mirror match, Jund Ramp, and Bant Aggro. These were the toughest matchups for me.
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I got in some decent test matches in between rounds and after a tournament today, and while I am still loving the deck, it has a very hard time dealling with discard coupled with removal. Since the deck burns through cards very quickly, getting your big Ob Nixilis / Harrow play swatted out of your hand is rough. Against decks that don't pack a ton of removal however, it is a house since if we topdeck a big threat it gets crazy quickly. I really want to love Baloths, but I think they may be to slow. I think I will be adding in one of the 4 drops I mention below as at least a 2 of, and either going to 2 or 0 Baloths.
Any combo-aggro hybrid deck by its very nature gets hosed by decks with lots of removal and discard. (Vampires, Bloodchief Ascension, Cruel Control, etc.) And unfortunately, that's just something you're gonna have to play around. This is where Ranger of Eos comes in handy, because he thins your deck at least as good as a fetchland, and he always brings two threats (in this deck's case, Scute Mobs) to the party with him. Merci, Antoine!
As for Rampaging Baloths... They're great in ramp, but yeah, I agree that they're pretty slow here. I wouldn't run them at all unless you're packing lots of cheap, early threats to draw hate away from them.
I can vouch for the singleton Gargoyle Castle, KotR can tutor it up to block things like Hippy, and it pumps KotR as well. I run 25 lands including the castle and I won't be dropping it.
Grim Discovery I think may not be optimal, but it's not bad in a deck with 8 fetches, Gargoyle Castle, and a ton of must-kill creatures. Your Cobra/Birds at least will likely not get pathed, and paying 2 for a birds and fetch seems good to me.
I actually really like Grim Discovery in here, but if you're worried about Exile, I'd have them in the sideboard and run Vines of Vastwood game 1. If nothing else, you can use it to screw up your opponent's combat math.
Emeria Angel does eat Lightning Bolt and friends, but if not it generates tons of blockers, and if so it ate a bolt that Ob may not eat next turn. I think the slot is needed, as either Garruk, Elspeth, or Emeria. Which one is best is iffy as they all have pros and cons. Something that can generate that kinda of card advantage is needed, and Conqueror's Pledge really doesn't fit the deck or the curve.
I agree that Emeria Angel is a highly underrated card. For what this deck does, she can churn out tokens faster than Bitterblossom, even if you can't cast her until turn 3 at the earliest.
That said, I think Garruk Wildspeaker is best in the 4cc-slot for the GWB version of this deck. He fits in well with the green-heavy mana curve, and if you don't need to generate any tokens, his small ability can help you pull off your explosive turn faster. Oh, yeah, and there's also that potentially game-ending Overrun effect, I guess.
That said, I think Garruk Wildspeaker is best in the 4cc-slot for the GWB version of this deck. He fits in well with the green-heavy mana curve, and if you don't need to generate any tokens, his small ability can help you pull off your explosive turn faster. Oh, yeah, and there's also that potentially game-ending Overrun effect, I guess.
Agreed. My current build uses 2, but I may up it to 3 based on how useful he is.
Powering him out turn 3-4 is no problem at all, and he sets up game winning moves. You may not even need him past his untap lands ability, but in my experience the 3/3 chumps provide good protection against the various vampire weenies.
How good has Khalni Heart been for you, Zorak? Just by looking at your list, it almost seems like overkill next to eight fetchlands, four KotR, and four Harrow. =/
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How good has Khalni Heart been for you, Zorak? Just by looking at your list, it almost seems like overkill next to eight fetchlands, four KotR, and four Harrow. =/
Just going off of theory here, (I admit, I haven't tested yet) but with the Expedition, it gives you 2 more instant speed land drops per spell. If you have one in play and then you drop your land for the turn (1 token), then play Harrow (3 tokens), use the Knight for a sac land (5 tokens), pop that land you played for your one per turn (6 tokens), then pop the enchantment, that's 8 lands you just played in one turn. How does that sound to you? I don't think it's overkill.
Yes, but who runs that? People don't expect this deck to be any good at this point. No one if going to be siding for this deck right now. The only time people will is when we actually start winning major tournaments.
Ok, so I have posted often here with suggestions for people and the only time I have posted any decks were in the original post for this thread and a few posts later to get some more thought on other versions. Now for a deck that I am working on.
I'm a bit more interested in going a different route and that route is trying to swarm my opponent with lots of creatures with Ob-Nixilis as a back-up finisher. It's supposed to be a bit more controlling for the early game, but I'm skeptical about that. Here's the first incarnation of the deck and I plan to get some testing in tomorrow:
So, now to talk about some cards that really stand out.
Eldrazi Monument: It's an interesting card that I just wanted to try out something different that would also help my creatures beat down faster.
Bone Splinters: With the idea that I am creating so many creatures, I think that I can support both this and the monument. It also give me another creature kill option that can also hit black creatures.
Devout Lightcaster: It's here for any deck that plays black, but more specifically, Vamps. This card is truly for testing and finding out what my meta is around here. I think this could be a sleeper hit in the current meta.
Infest: Since I'm not playing red, I needed some form of mass removal for weenie decks. Yes it hurts me to an extent, but I think it's something that I can play around.
Great Sable Stag: Yeah, why not? It's amazing but against the right decks.
Ranger of Eos: As much as I like this card for the deck, in my deck it's only going to grab a specific creature. In fact, as I write this, I'm wondering why I chose this card. Maybe it should be Celestial Purge?
So, there it is. I hope this gets some ideas going for the rest of you.
Sledge on River Boa is pretty tough to take down for decks not running Path or Terminate and a bane to aggro. I tried to curve this abit like sligh. The manabase needs help, but it could be good. With plated Geopede and Linx out, Harrow can be really good. Need to fix this thing up though
I'm going to add my version for critique and to show some other versions. I went with a decklist that was similar to this last friday and got 2nd place.
Any suggestions for 3 open slots in sideboard?
Card choices:
Knight of the Reiliquary was originally Dauntless Escort but the synergy of KotR is too great for this deck.
I went with red over black because I didn't feel like going the jund way and I really like playing with the landfall/cascade triggers. Blood-braid gives me some card advantage against control decks which is nice.
Realm Razor can be a real beast especially if your opponent isn't aware your playing with it. The best thing about it is if they don't have the kill spell in their hand, they lose to the Razor, if they do, all of my land comes back into play with one of my land fall guys out ideally.
Played with this last FNM, with the escorts instead of KotR and did great. I played with Khalani, Heart Expedition was awesome. I used it instead of Harrow and now I'm having difficulties deciding which to use. I liked that I could build up the Heart Expedition, and then use it later after I had a land fall guy out, or after a Realm Razor to go get a plains for path to exile or something.
Is using Khalani just worse than harrow? I don't like topdecking Khalani late game, or cascading into it but it wasn't that bad.
Sideboard currenly has purges, escort and the sledge
From playtesting- MVP is Naya Charm. Can never have enough of those guys in my hand. From taping their team and swinging in for the win, to returning a lightning bolt to my hand for the last three damage, its just nasty.
I am thinking about taking out the heirarchs and worms and going for ranger of eos, wild nacatel and the mob but im not sure yet.
How good has Khalni Heart been for you, Zorak? Just by looking at your list, it almost seems like overkill next to eight fetchlands, four KotR, and four Harrow. =/
Surprisingly enough, they seem almost necessary the way the deck plays.
Often enough I can get Ob into play and have harrow in hand but I need to put him out of bolt range. At this point in the game Expedition goes off right away.
Some times it feels like a dead card, but for the most part if I grab it early on its a great card.
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4 [M10] Sunpetal Grove
6 [ZEN] Forest (2)
10 [ZEN] Plains (1)
4 [ZEN] Graypelt Refuge
// Creatures
2 [ALA] Ranger of Eos
2 Baneslayer Angel
4 [ZEN] Scute Mob
4 [ZEN] Rampaging Baloths
4 [ZEN] Emeria Angel
2 [M10] Master of the Wild Hunt
4 [CFX] Path to Exile
3 [M10] Garruk Wildspeaker
4 [ZEN] Harrow
4 [ZEN] Conqueror's Pledge
2 Rampent growth
1 Overrun
This took me to a 4-1 placing last night.
Basically losing only to double Baneslayer Angel+Elspeth
Thanks to .toRRent for the sig!
3 Ob Nixilis, The Fallen
3 Emeria Angel
3 Rampaging Baloths
4 Lotus Cobra
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Path to Exile
4 Harrow
3 Rampant Growth
3 Khalni Heart Expedition
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
4 Sunpetal Grove
5 Forest
4 Swamps
4 Plains
Simple, straightforward premise. Ramp up to one of the 3 Landfallers. Get your landfall triggers. Win. Garruk is there to help with ramp, and also provide 3/3 blockers if needed. Overrun is also good when Emeria Angel gets on the field to give her birds +3/+3. Only problem is consistency. Is it worth staying b/g/w or Should I stay g/w ? or b/g? Undecided at this point.
8 Plains
5 Forest
4 Wildfield Borderpost
4 Bant Panorama
2 Sunpetal Grove
Creatures(19)
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the White Orchid
3 Rampaging Baloths
4 Baloth Woodcrasher
4 Steward of Valeron
4 Harrow
2 Martial Coup
1 Day of Judgment
3 Baloth Cage Trap
3 Path to Exile
2 Journey to Nowhere
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Terra Stomper
2 Summoning Trap
2 Journey to Nowhere
1 Baloth Cage Trap
Yes, some of these cards nobody would have expected to make this list, but, I have to disagree. A lot of these are under-rated. Cards like Baloth Cage Trap, even if you don't play it for it's Trap cost, is still good. I hear 4/4 beats with flash for 3GG win games.
Another very under-rated card I feel is Woodcrasher Baloth. Everybody says this guy is a "limited bomb" but is highly unplayable in Std. Really? I mean, one mid-combat Harrow turns this into a 12/12 trampling monstrosity; last I checked, that was pretty good. And it's not like his 4GG mana cost slows him down any, given the type of deck that likes this guy.I played him on T-4 thanks to the KotWO/Borderpost synergy, which those borderposts also help to pump this guy at the same time.
Martial Coup is still a fine contender here, given the mana accel this deck possess. Ideally, these would be Day of Judgment to help counter-act a faster starting deck such as RWG Zoo, but it still seems to be okay. Also, I've only pulled one from my two boxes of ZEN, and this card is quite hard to find.
Noble Hierarch and Steward of Valeron both provide that extra accel, while Steward can also bring in some damage to boot, so he isn't "just another mana dork". On the subject of accel, we also have 3 of Garruk Wildspeaker, and we all know what he is capable of.
The SB is just some generic hate type cards, Vines versus Vampires and other decks with heavy removal, Stomper and the Trap versus the inevitable control deck that does find it's way into Standard, 2 more Journey for extra removal, and a fourth Cage Trap for heavy artifact/Esper decks, or against control decks, in an effort to [attempt to] make them spend their counters on their own turn.
Thoughts/feedback is always welcomed, of course.
Addendum: Yes, I'm missing Knight of the Reliquary, I only have one, and virtually everywhere I've looked they've been out of him. v_v idk what I'd really like to take out for him.
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I decided to go with Naya colors so that I could include Plated Geopede and Naya Charm for a much faster win. I thought about going with black for Ob Nixilis, but I don't have the kind of money for all the support cards it needs like Lotus Cobra and Maelstrom Pulse. So red it is! Even if it's only a splash.
3 Steppe Lynx
3 Scute Mob
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Plated Geopede
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Emeria Angel
3 Ranger of Eos
4 Path to Exile
4 Naya Charm
4 Harrow
Lands (24)
4 Arid Mesa
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Mountain
6 Plains
6 Forest
Update: I decided to drop the 2 Escorts and 1 Emeria Angel for a total of 3 Scute Mobs. I figure I'll only need three because I don't wanna draw one in the early game. (He's like the anti-Lynx that way...) Good move?
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Anyway, just looking for some feedback on my Baloth Ramp build. I played it earlier yesterday, but only against one guy, and it was a janky version of BU Vampires, so it wasn't as accurate. I mean, it worked the way it's supposed to, had a lot of raw power. But y'know.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The deck looks like it would work pretty well, but reads more like aggro than landfall. I tested mine with 3 of the rampaging baloths (I have 3 promos, wanted to use them), and found them to be too slow.
Standard - R/G Aggro RG
Standard - Book Burning UR
Modern - U/W Tempo UW
Legacy - Master of Affinity XX
Vintage - Burnination RR
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Thanks dude. I might head over to my bro's house later today and test with him a bit. He doesn't actually have his own deck, so he'll probably use my Naya Zoo like he does at FNM. Maybe he might use my Vampires as well. *shrugs*
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
4x Lotus Cobra
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Baneslayer Angel
3x Dauntless Escort
2x Rampaging Baloths
3x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Path to Exile
3x Grim Discovery
2x Harrow
1x Behemoth Sledge
Land (24)
4x Marsh Flats
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Sunpetal Grove
4x Swamp
4x Plains
6x Forest
Some thoughts on cards included
Grim Discovery is almost always a 2 for 1. I particularly enjoy it with Dauntless Escort. I can pretty reliably use it to create 2 Landfall triggers
Behemoth Sledge should maybe be a sideboard card against something with a lot of blockers. KotR, Baneslayer, Ob Nixilis, etc don't have Trample, so it's handy and I"ve got the mana to cast and use it, but it's probably not the best card for it's slot
Rampaging Baloths - I brought this in because I didn't reliably enough have a good beater. I think probably the better thing to do is pull it and put in another baneslayer and something like Harrow. I can cast a 5CMC creature and create landfall on the same turn FAR more often than a 6CMC creature
Lotus Cobra - Full of win. Sure, he may get killed sometimes, but Grim Discovery is handy for that too, and it's possible to cast a turn 1BoP and then cast Cobra and Harrow on turn 2. Not likely, or anything, but fun.
thoughts on cards left out
Steppe Lynx - I tried him for a while, looking for something to do early game other than ramp, and he just distracts from the ramping. He has moments of awesomeness, but far too often I wish I'd drawn something else
Emeria Angel - A lot of people point out how Lightning Boltable she is, but to me thats not the biggest downside. What does this deck want with a bunch of 1/1 birds? They're too slow.
Elspeth and Garruk - Tried Garruk, haven't tried Elspeth. Garruk was nice, and may go back in. Elspeth seems like she's full of win as well. Would take the Behemoth Sledge slot.
Day of Judgment - Probably will end up in the sideboard, especially since I have the escorts, but it really depends on what the meta turns out to be. With the escorts and Grim Discovery, I feel like I can recover from it pretty well.
Khalni Heart Expedition - Right now I prefer Harrow, but I definitely see the draw. Has anyone tested this and liked it?
So thats what I'm working with. I don't really have anyone to test against right now, anyone have any experience in the meta yet?
J
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
4 Lotus Cobra
3 Harrow
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Ob Nixilus
2 Rampaging Baloths
4 Scute Mob
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Grim Discovery
2 Behemoth Sledge
3 Duress
3 Path to Exile
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
6 Forest
4 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Gargoyle Castle
I like this build right now, but i need to do more testing for sure.
I really lke the hybrid Landfall/Rock feel that it has. trying to suck the most potential out of each archetype and the balancing is tough.
Behemoth sledge MAY be moved to sideboard... haven't given a ton of thought to the sideboard yet though.
With plenty of sac lands in an aggro environment, it would be nice to have the life gain and the evasion it grants to all my big guys is very welcome as well. Tough choice...
Really wish i had more room for a second Ranger of Eos at least... and possibly another grim discovery.
Jesus Christ, -1 Castle +3 Sunpetal Grove/+2 Sunpetal Grove. Your deck does have two six drops that walk like seven drops and three five drops that walk like six drops you know?
Since when did lifegain win tournaments outside of Limited, and Super Blocker Monk?
Drop the equip, and the Grim Discovery, and add your Rangers - I don't see where the tough choice was for where to get slots for him.
Move Duress to Sideboard, and add one more Harrow, another Ob Nixilis, and another Baloth/Path to Exile.
You're missing all these needed cards, and having fun with sideboard material cards maindecked playing rogue build against the meta.
the one of castle and grove are simply search targets for the knight if i ABSOLUTELY need them. can't afford to add any more nonbasics as i'm already walking a thin line between running out of basics as it is and the additional harrow will push it over the edge i think... i will consider dropping the "toolbox" lands and adding more basics for sure though.
grim discovery is amazing in this deck and even though you are probably right in thinking i should drop it, i still think it's better than you realize.
Rather sound advice, so thank you!
I can vouch for the singleton Gargoyle Castle, KotR can tutor it up to block things like Hippy, and it pumps KotR as well. I run 25 lands including the castle and I won't be dropping it.
I can't see the equipment being good maindeck, since so often we're in topdeck mode and need to draw a threat.
Grim Discovery I think may not be optimal, but it's not bad in a deck with 8 fetches, Gargoyle Castle, and a ton of must-kill creatures. Your Cobra/Birds at least will likely not get pathed, and paying 2 for a birds and fetch seems good to me.
Emeria Angel does eat Lightning Bolt and friends, but if not it generates tons of blockers, and if so it ate a bolt that Ob may not eat next turn. I think the slot is needed, as either Garruk, Elspeth, or Emeria. Which one is best is iffy as they all have pros and cons. Something that can generate that kinda of card advantage is needed, and Conqueror's Pledge really doesn't fit the deck or the curve.
If you can, try testing against the mirror match, Jund Ramp, and Bant Aggro. These were the toughest matchups for me.
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Any combo-aggro hybrid deck by its very nature gets hosed by decks with lots of removal and discard. (Vampires, Bloodchief Ascension, Cruel Control, etc.) And unfortunately, that's just something you're gonna have to play around. This is where Ranger of Eos comes in handy, because he thins your deck at least as good as a fetchland, and he always brings two threats (in this deck's case, Scute Mobs) to the party with him. Merci, Antoine!
As for Rampaging Baloths... They're great in ramp, but yeah, I agree that they're pretty slow here. I wouldn't run them at all unless you're packing lots of cheap, early threats to draw hate away from them.
Great. One more rare I need to shop for.
I actually really like Grim Discovery in here, but if you're worried about Exile, I'd have them in the sideboard and run Vines of Vastwood game 1. If nothing else, you can use it to screw up your opponent's combat math.
I agree that Emeria Angel is a highly underrated card. For what this deck does, she can churn out tokens faster than Bitterblossom, even if you can't cast her until turn 3 at the earliest.
That said, I think Garruk Wildspeaker is best in the 4cc-slot for the GWB version of this deck. He fits in well with the green-heavy mana curve, and if you don't need to generate any tokens, his small ability can help you pull off your explosive turn faster. Oh, yeah, and there's also that potentially game-ending Overrun effect, I guess.
:symu::symb: Blue-Black Control | Red Deck Wins
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Agreed. My current build uses 2, but I may up it to 3 based on how useful he is.
Powering him out turn 3-4 is no problem at all, and he sets up game winning moves. You may not even need him past his untap lands ability, but in my experience the 3/3 chumps provide good protection against the various vampire weenies.
My current build:
3 Ob nixilis, the fallen
2 Rampaging Baloths
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Path to Exile
4 Duress
3 Khalni Heart Expedition
2 Behemoth Sledge
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Plains
4 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Gargoyle Castle
Standard
GWUBant EnchantmentsUWG
BR Dos Rakis RB
UW Mill WU
Legacy
RGoblinsR
:symu::symb: Blue-Black Control | Red Deck Wins
Legacy
Elves
Commander
:symu::symr::symg: Riku of Two Reflections | :symb::symg::symw: Ghave, Guru of Spores
Just going off of theory here, (I admit, I haven't tested yet) but with the Expedition, it gives you 2 more instant speed land drops per spell. If you have one in play and then you drop your land for the turn (1 token), then play Harrow (3 tokens), use the Knight for a sac land (5 tokens), pop that land you played for your one per turn (6 tokens), then pop the enchantment, that's 8 lands you just played in one turn. How does that sound to you? I don't think it's overkill.
Evil Chocobo of the Alliance of Rogue Deckers!
A special thanks goes out to the one who loves atogs, thanks for the sig!
Come join Warmachine!!!!!!
Pewter Crack is Evil!
I have Magic ADD.
J
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
Evil Chocobo of the Alliance of Rogue Deckers!
A special thanks goes out to the one who loves atogs, thanks for the sig!
Come join Warmachine!!!!!!
Pewter Crack is Evil!
I have Magic ADD.
I'm a bit more interested in going a different route and that route is trying to swarm my opponent with lots of creatures with Ob-Nixilis as a back-up finisher. It's supposed to be a bit more controlling for the early game, but I'm skeptical about that. Here's the first incarnation of the deck and I plan to get some testing in tomorrow:
4x Emeria Angel
2x Rampaging Baloths
3x Ob-Nixili, the Fallen
4x Scute Mob
4x Knight of the Reliquary
Other
3x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Path to Exile
3x Bone Splinters
4x Harrow
3x Khalni Heart Expedition
1x Eldrazi Monument
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Marsh Flats
3x Terramorphic Expanse
5x Plains
5x Forest
5x Swamp
2x Devout Lightcaster
4x Infest
3x Duress
3x Great Sable Stag
2x Ranger of Eos
So, now to talk about some cards that really stand out.
Eldrazi Monument: It's an interesting card that I just wanted to try out something different that would also help my creatures beat down faster.
Bone Splinters: With the idea that I am creating so many creatures, I think that I can support both this and the monument. It also give me another creature kill option that can also hit black creatures.
Devout Lightcaster: It's here for any deck that plays black, but more specifically, Vamps. This card is truly for testing and finding out what my meta is around here. I think this could be a sleeper hit in the current meta.
Infest: Since I'm not playing red, I needed some form of mass removal for weenie decks. Yes it hurts me to an extent, but I think it's something that I can play around.
Duress: For control decks mainly.
Great Sable Stag: Yeah, why not? It's amazing but against the right decks.
Ranger of Eos: As much as I like this card for the deck, in my deck it's only going to grab a specific creature. In fact, as I write this, I'm wondering why I chose this card. Maybe it should be Celestial Purge?
So, there it is. I hope this gets some ideas going for the rest of you.
Evil Chocobo of the Alliance of Rogue Deckers!
A special thanks goes out to the one who loves atogs, thanks for the sig!
Come join Warmachine!!!!!!
Pewter Crack is Evil!
I have Magic ADD.
4x Steppe Linx
4x Plated Geopede
4x River Boa
2x Grazing Gladehart
2x Ranger of Eos
4x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Harrow
4x Ancient Ziggurat
4x Naya Panorama
4x Terramorphic Expanse
5x Plains
3x Forest
2x Mountain
Sledge on River Boa is pretty tough to take down for decks not running Path or Terminate and a bane to aggro. I tried to curve this abit like sligh. The manabase needs help, but it could be good. With plated Geopede and Linx out, Harrow can be really good. Need to fix this thing up though
Creatures:
4x Scute Mob
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Emeria Angel
4x Blood-braid Elf
3x Rampaging Baloths
2x Realm Razor
Total: 20
Spells:
4x Path to Exile
4x Rampant Growth
4x Harrow
2x Behemoth Sledge
3x Garruk, Wildspeaker
1x [c]Banefire
Total: 18
Lands:
4x Terramorphic Expanse
4x Sunpetal Grove
2x Rootbound Crag
1x Arid Mesa
2x Mountain
3x Plains
6x Forest
Total: 22
Sideboard:
3x Great Stable Stag
2x Banefire
3x Naturalize
3x Celestial Purge
3x Dauntless Escort ?? x3 open
Any suggestions for 3 open slots in sideboard?
Card choices:
Knight of the Reiliquary was originally Dauntless Escort but the synergy of KotR is too great for this deck.
I went with red over black because I didn't feel like going the jund way and I really like playing with the landfall/cascade triggers. Blood-braid gives me some card advantage against control decks which is nice.
Realm Razor can be a real beast especially if your opponent isn't aware your playing with it. The best thing about it is if they don't have the kill spell in their hand, they lose to the Razor, if they do, all of my land comes back into play with one of my land fall guys out ideally.
Played with this last FNM, with the escorts instead of KotR and did great. I played with Khalani, Heart Expedition was awesome. I used it instead of Harrow and now I'm having difficulties deciding which to use. I liked that I could build up the Heart Expedition, and then use it later after I had a land fall guy out, or after a Realm Razor to go get a plains for path to exile or something.
Is using Khalani just worse than harrow? I don't like topdecking Khalani late game, or cascading into it but it wasn't that bad.
I think that red is better then black because of Bloodbraid and Naya Charm
4 Cobra Lotus
4 Woolly Thoctar
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Baneslayer Angel
2 Enlisted Worm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Naya Charm
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Rootbound Craig
4 Arid Mesa
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
3 Forest
2 Mountain
Sideboard currenly has purges, escort and the sledge
From playtesting- MVP is Naya Charm. Can never have enough of those guys in my hand. From taping their team and swinging in for the win, to returning a lightning bolt to my hand for the last three damage, its just nasty.
I am thinking about taking out the heirarchs and worms and going for ranger of eos, wild nacatel and the mob but im not sure yet.
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Surprisingly enough, they seem almost necessary the way the deck plays.
Often enough I can get Ob into play and have harrow in hand but I need to put him out of bolt range. At this point in the game Expedition goes off right away.
Some times it feels like a dead card, but for the most part if I grab it early on its a great card.
Standard
GWUBant EnchantmentsUWG
BR Dos Rakis RB
UW Mill WU
Legacy
RGoblinsR