I definently think both these cards are awesome, and I love to play black, but (though I'm sure its been said before) the pricing is so high because the demand for these cards is extremely high, in porportion to the supply. If everyone other magic player in the world were to want a copy of One with Nothing, then the cost of it would skyrocket to 30 bucks as well, unfortunately its the very nature of capitalism. This is why awesome commons such as Rancor increase in value over time, because gradually the card is no longer printed, and the supply slowly runs drier. If wizards was still printing black lotus at the same amount as Swamps, then of course it'd be cheaper.
Now onto the current discussion, whether or not a card is considered good by the majority of magic players, then it will be highly priced, whereas Thoughseize on turn 8, is not particularly appealing.
So I don't like that huge price for Tarmogoyf either, but its unvoidable, and my opinion is that if wizards (for some reason) decided to ban it, you;d quickly see it drop down to 10 or 15, because the demand for it would suddenly go away.
i don't play yugi oh, but i do know this. us magic players are lucky. we don't pay the insane prices for cards that yugi oh players pay. omg, i heard theres this ultra secret rare that takes like i think 16 boxes to find. oh btw, theres this gold? pack thats selling out like crazy and the price is jacked up high. my store had a sign that said one pack per person. as far as i'm concerned wizards is awesome for not makeing these ridiculous rarities. i've played other card games in the past, and though they don't come close to the prices of legacy and type 1 decks they are a lot more expensive then our type 2. i can't beleive there is 27 pages worth of complaining on 2 cards. lol, thoughtseize isn't even worth 30$ anymore. from what i've seen, there are several yugi oh cards that are above 50$.
I saw that Yugi Oh pack thing, Gold Collector's Edition, $30 a pack - a pack - and there is the ultra slim possibility of pulling a $400 card
Thank you so much, I'll stick to Magic, more than expensive enough for poor little me :P.
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Decks
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks) Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks) Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
ok, for the tarmogolf matter, I remember that I returned to playing magic when future sight just came out, and I remember looking at all review there where on the web. Now guess what, Tarmogolf was considered as a mediocre card, when cards like magus of the moon where considered as THE HARCORE LEGEND CARD OF THE EDITION (this one mostly because of rav<s bi-land, I heard, and later saw, where extreme strong).
This link is one among many that said tarmo was junk. As a matter of fact, my local shop owner even told me that future sight wasn<t selling at all in the start. It took a ramdom guy at the world champs who played tarmo and won it and, suprise, everyone started playing it. All of this to say that Tarmo was worth 5 box before, and was considered A BAD CARD TO AVOID IN COMPETITIVE. Witch leads me to say that Tarmo might be strong now, but noone said that when it came out, much less said that it was the best creature even printed. Now is that card a must in every deck, I don t think so. Is it the card that will make you win EVERY FNM, I dont think so ether. Hell, I play a mana ramp deck that I made at TS block contructed, and then modified for T2, and I never played a Tarmo, even less tryed to trade for one, AND MY DECK WAS AND IS STILL A FEARED ONE, at local store. So, you dont NEED a tarmo in every deck to win, just try to add card that will synergyze with your deck. It is good, VERY GOOD, but not A MUST, IMHO
Fort toughtseize, that, also, i thnik isn<t a must card. look, fae rogue deck use nagging wag on turn two, and it also does the job, even if its not turn one.
mow, after that thesis, ill go eat
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Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
Skill! In Magic! I thought if I played 4x Goyfs, 4x Thoughtseizes and 4x Garruks that I automatically won. Damn! Seriously, though, skill is so important and is so often forgotten in this game. Two players can play the exact same decks, card for card, but will have vastly different results if their play skills differ. Give me a UB Faerie deck and I can probably beat a good Lark deck. But, give that same Lark deck to Jonny Magic to play and I will likely lose. He just doesn't make play mistakes. I am definitely human and make plenty of play mistakes. (Sigh!) At least I continue to learn from them:rolleyes:. Nice post, Drizzt.
now a smart point here. i am a 18 years old college guy, needing to pay for school, for what I wear, sometimes lunch. now, I can t afford to go buy tarmos because my deck will be more "scary"(even tho i don t even think a need him). now, How many 14-16 years old, or olders, have I crushed even if they had tarmos and all the 400 box kit and thatwent crying after match?A LOT!!!!! If you don t play with what your deck needs, or if you do not play smart, YOU CAN LOOSE. Sometimes, it<s even the weardest moves with some random card that will save you, or some when placed gambit, not playing EVERY 20$+ cards. By the way, if you dont wanna play thoughseize, PLAY DISTRESS, SAMETHING. Maybe turn two, but does the job.
weatherguy, i respect you dude, and dritzz too
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Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
Well if you don't like the prices now, wait until May and see what they're like. People will scramble harder to find them for Regionals. It makes me happy at least.
One of the reasons I play paper magic less is not having access to a specific card I want to see in my deck. The reason for the card's inaccessibility is usually its price.
-So what do I do?
+I play budgetized decks.
I don't play Thoughtseize&Tarmogoyf, I beg my opponent to play a turn 1 weakling and I play sheltering ancient&Might of old Krosa! The difference is obvious. But listen! I am a monk that has patience, I am a sensei that knows when to play the ancients, I am a master of turning weaknesses to strengths... shortly playing with worse cards made me a better player (Of course that has something to do with optimism, what did you think!).
Also there is a Supply//Demand issue here:
Say I have won big with ancients and no goyfs. people see my decklist all over the place and hunt for their own copies of ancients now and ancients' price hits 30$ (impossible is nothing!*insert ironic grin*). So who is laughing now goyf!!! Ancients price has beaten you! and that's exactly because "ancients has beaten goyf in play" (Beware the Rogue player that has a deck of 50$!).
So one card beats every other card comparable to it in play/games/tournaments= its price goes rocketing up because everyone wants it. people don't want it= it is cheap. not the other way around. I love little mana big creatures, everyone does, you can't blame them because tournament play awards that. Is there a pro. that has siege wurm in his ext. tournament deck? Siege Wurms and pro.players don't get along well.
Lastly let me remember the name of this game:
It's about "Gathering" and it is a "trading card game"; not about "Goyfhunting" and a "buying cards over the internet game". at least it didn't use to be that...
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Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics, and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.
Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
One of the reasons I play paper magic less is not having access to a specific card I want to see in my deck. The reason for the card's inaccessibility is usually its price.
-So what do I do?
+I play budgetized decks.
I don't play Thoughtseize&Tarmogoyf, I beg my opponent to play a turn 1 weakling and I play sheltering ancient&Might of old Krosa! The difference is obvious. But listen! I am a monk that has patience, I am a sensei that knows when to play the ancients, I am a master of turning weaknesses to strengths... shortly playing with worse cards made me a better player (Of course that has something to do with optimism, what did you think!).
Also there is a Supply//Demand issue here:
Say I have won big with ancients and no goyfs. people see my decklist all over the place and hunt for their own copies of ancients now and ancients' price hits 30$ (impossible is nothing!*insert ironic grin*). So who is laughing now goyf!!! Ancients price has beaten you! and that's exactly because "ancients has beaten goyf in play" (Beware the Rogue player that has a deck of 50$!).
So one card beats every other card comparable to it in play/games/tournaments= its price goes rocketing up because everyone wants it. people don't want it= it is cheap. not the other way around. I love little mana big creatures, everyone does, you can't blame them because tournament play awards that. Is there a pro. that has siege wurm in his ext. tournament deck? Siege Wurms and pro.players don't get along well.
Lastly let me remember the name of this game:
It's about "Gathering" and it is a "trading card game"; not about "Goyfhunting" and a "buying cards over the internet game". at least it didn't use to be that...
again, i gota agree there, but i dunno for the ancient lol. and yes, you can own with a 50 dollar rogue deck, you just need to know how to play. and again, why do i never buy cards on the internet? TRADING CARD GAME. oh, and nice pic with the baby, dude i did not took time to look at name before have reply tread popping.
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Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
its great how the "omg magic sucks becouse tarm/thoughseize is so expensive" have stopped talking. its been 3 months that i've been tarmo free in my playing. i think my playset is in a box or binder :). oddly enough the moment i stopped using them(note, i still think they are a great card) my rating went up. lolololol.
ya well, except the mutavaults na dthe horizon a guess...but still fairly cheap
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Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
its great how the "omg magic sucks becouse tarm/thoughseize is so expensive" have stopped talking. its been 3 months that i've been tarmo free in my playing. i think my playset is in a box or binder :). oddly enough the moment i stopped using them(note, i still think they are a great card) my rating went up. lolololol.
I think a lot of people find an excuse to play Tarmogoyf in decks that aren't suited for it. Yes, it's almost always better than Grizzly Bears, but you didn't need the Grizzly Bears, you needed a 2-drop that's relevant for your deck. Now, obviously there are plenty of decks that enjoy swinging with their 4/5 Vanilla on turn 3 because that's something they can support. It's not Jesus, just Goliath.
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Lurking since Guildpact. Procrastinating for...
Current Decks
Tarmogoyf is really expensive, it's not even that great in a lot of decks. So much of the meta is based around what kills tarmogoyf and what IS tarmogoyf... thoughtseize isn't even really that expensive, I hate how expensive chameleon colossus and extirpate are. We need one of those threads.
Luckily shadowmoor isn't too pricey. but the old cards arn't gonna go down in price which sucks .... Also going mono black rogues doesn't really seem to be working to well against shadowmoor.
well, vexing shusher is going to stay high becouse its going to be played alot in extended. I'm not a vintage player so i don't know if this will see play in that format. tarm is expensive becouse all competetive formats use this guy. Thoughtseize is used outside standard, but is usually not played as often as the other discard choices.(though not my much). collossus is soo good and considering that morningtide hasn't been out that long, i can understand its price. extirpate isn't that bad of a price. Also extirpate is not an "auto" include in most decks/sideboards. plus, i would think that 3 is needed, not a playset.
the prices for shadowmoor reflect type chase rares before ravnica came out. i remember in mirrodin that ravager was the most expensive(except for chrome mox, but what do you expect out of a playable mox varient?) card in mirrodin. he topped at 15$, and he made one of the most broken type 2/block deck since urza block.
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Now onto the current discussion, whether or not a card is considered good by the majority of magic players, then it will be highly priced, whereas Thoughseize on turn 8, is not particularly appealing.
So I don't like that huge price for Tarmogoyf either, but its unvoidable, and my opinion is that if wizards (for some reason) decided to ban it, you;d quickly see it drop down to 10 or 15, because the demand for it would suddenly go away.
was that statement necissary?
Thank you so much, I'll stick to Magic, more than expensive enough for poor little me :P.
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks)
Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks)
Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Standard
Waiting for Innistrad...
Extended
Hah!
Modern
Living End Cascade (RGB)
Legacy
Burn
Vintage
None
Casual
WB Aggro-Control
Green Stompy
Pink Floyd (UWr Wall Control)
Lunch Box (Fatty ramp)
D-Bag (White Control)
Level 13 Task Mage
http://forum.tcgplayer.com/showthread.php?t=96810&highlight=future+sight+review
This link is one among many that said tarmo was junk. As a matter of fact, my local shop owner even told me that future sight wasn<t selling at all in the start. It took a ramdom guy at the world champs who played tarmo and won it and, suprise, everyone started playing it. All of this to say that Tarmo was worth 5 box before, and was considered A BAD CARD TO AVOID IN COMPETITIVE. Witch leads me to say that Tarmo might be strong now, but noone said that when it came out, much less said that it was the best creature even printed. Now is that card a must in every deck, I don t think so. Is it the card that will make you win EVERY FNM, I dont think so ether. Hell, I play a mana ramp deck that I made at TS block contructed, and then modified for T2, and I never played a Tarmo, even less tryed to trade for one, AND MY DECK WAS AND IS STILL A FEARED ONE, at local store. So, you dont NEED a tarmo in every deck to win, just try to add card that will synergyze with your deck. It is good, VERY GOOD, but not A MUST, IMHO
Fort toughtseize, that, also, i thnik isn<t a must card. look, fae rogue deck use nagging wag on turn two, and it also does the job, even if its not turn one.
mow, after that thesis, ill go eat
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
now a smart point here. i am a 18 years old college guy, needing to pay for school, for what I wear, sometimes lunch. now, I can t afford to go buy tarmos because my deck will be more "scary"(even tho i don t even think a need him). now, How many 14-16 years old, or olders, have I crushed even if they had tarmos and all the 400 box kit and thatwent crying after match?A LOT!!!!! If you don t play with what your deck needs, or if you do not play smart, YOU CAN LOOSE. Sometimes, it<s even the weardest moves with some random card that will save you, or some when placed gambit, not playing EVERY 20$+ cards. By the way, if you dont wanna play thoughseize, PLAY DISTRESS, SAMETHING. Maybe turn two, but does the job.
weatherguy, i respect you dude, and dritzz too
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
Awesome banner and avatar thanks to spiderboy4 from highlight studios!
One of the reasons I play paper magic less is not having access to a specific card I want to see in my deck. The reason for the card's inaccessibility is usually its price.
-So what do I do?
+I play budgetized decks.
I don't play Thoughtseize&Tarmogoyf, I beg my opponent to play a turn 1 weakling and I play sheltering ancient&Might of old Krosa! The difference is obvious. But listen! I am a monk that has patience, I am a sensei that knows when to play the ancients, I am a master of turning weaknesses to strengths... shortly playing with worse cards made me a better player (Of course that has something to do with optimism, what did you think!).
Also there is a Supply//Demand issue here:
Say I have won big with ancients and no goyfs. people see my decklist all over the place and hunt for their own copies of ancients now and ancients' price hits 30$ (impossible is nothing!*insert ironic grin*). So who is laughing now goyf!!! Ancients price has beaten you! and that's exactly because "ancients has beaten goyf in play" (Beware the Rogue player that has a deck of 50$!).
So one card beats every other card comparable to it in play/games/tournaments= its price goes rocketing up because everyone wants it. people don't want it= it is cheap. not the other way around. I love little mana big creatures, everyone does, you can't blame them because tournament play awards that. Is there a pro. that has siege wurm in his ext. tournament deck? Siege Wurms and pro.players don't get along well.
Lastly let me remember the name of this game:
It's about "Gathering" and it is a "trading card game"; not about "Goyfhunting" and a "buying cards over the internet game". at least it didn't use to be that...
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics,
and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
again, i gota agree there, but i dunno for the ancient lol. and yes, you can own with a 50 dollar rogue deck, you just need to know how to play. and again, why do i never buy cards on the internet? TRADING CARD GAME. oh, and nice pic with the baby, dude i did not took time to look at name before have reply tread popping.
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mf195
check chris eng<s deck and tell me about almost NOTHING that costy
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
Nice mutavaults
ya well, except the mutavaults na dthe horizon a guess...but still fairly cheap
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
I think a lot of people find an excuse to play Tarmogoyf in decks that aren't suited for it. Yes, it's almost always better than Grizzly Bears, but you didn't need the Grizzly Bears, you needed a 2-drop that's relevant for your deck. Now, obviously there are plenty of decks that enjoy swinging with their 4/5 Vanilla on turn 3 because that's something they can support. It's not Jesus, just Goliath.
Current Decks
WKithkin-Block
GEpic Druids-Casual
Cheap T2 Staples
techoverrated.Awesome banner and avatar thanks to spiderboy4 from highlight studios!
Somewhat disappointing that there's nothing really splashy for Constructed play. A lot of decent-to-good rares like the Cairn lands, though.
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
the prices for shadowmoor reflect type chase rares before ravnica came out. i remember in mirrodin that ravager was the most expensive(except for chrome mox, but what do you expect out of a playable mox varient?) card in mirrodin. he topped at 15$, and he made one of the most broken type 2/block deck since urza block.