Maybe this is the wrong place to do this, but I've been trying to combine the best out of two lists that I've seen floating around. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to calculate a solid manabase.
Could someone suggest a stable manabase for the following cardlist? Thanks.
Not sure what it's meant to be nor what it's focused for....
Just a general mish-mash of cards, extremely good for the mirror but little else.
I talked to him about it Friday night, and he said he was pretty confident in it. I personally don't think he would have played it today had he participated, though.
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I cannot for the life of me figure out how this deck lives without Kitchen Finks.
My metagame consists of 2-3 Kithkin, BG Elves, Fae, a Mirror, and 2 RDW.
It seems the only reason I win games is because of Finks backup =o
What all do you use the resounding waves and thunders for? Are they really that necessary? I understand they're good against Planeswalkers, but between Negate and Finks I don't seem to have a problem with them.
Thanks for all the help with the list, and side boarding for the match ups. Me and my team mate took the deck to NY states and both did good with it, i ended up 5-3 due to not being able to handle Jace and playing faeries 4 of the 8 rounds. And he went 6-1-1 and made top 8. Then beat 2 faeries and 1 kithkin deck to win the whole thing!!!
PS is Resounding Thunder our best answer to jace. My only losses where too T1 Seize (my finks) T2 Blossom T3 Jace..........
Also Shin how did u end up? I assume that one of the UB Fae in the top 8 was u
I made Top 8 with 5 Color Control yesterday at Pennsylvania States. I played RDW in Top 8 and lost to 2-1. Before I go into the day, here is the list that I played.
No Cruel Ultimatum - I know there has been a lot of talk about whether this is worth the spot in the main board, and during testing before States, I had concluded typically when I played it, I was usually in a position to win anyways. Because of this, I cut it and was never disappointed all day.
Remove Soul - At no point during the day did I regret this over Negate MD. It simply was too good in so many of the matchups that I played that had I had Negate MD I definitely would not have won as many games as I did. It was crucial.
Cloudthresher - I wanted to be able to beat Faeries Game 1, and not have to rely on sideboarding to win me two games. Cloudthresher showed it usefulness far beyond just the Faeries matchup though, and was an MVP all day long. I'd be interested to hear why he was cut from so many builds, because I find him invaluable.
Before the tournament started, I searched around and noticed a very high density of Kithkin and Faeries, which I what I had expected going into the event. What was rather surprising (IMO) was the severe lack of Reveillark, though this did not disappoint me in the least. The round break down was as follows (based of my slightly scribbled notes, so my apologies if they are exactly accurate - At a minimum, I did face all of those match ups, though one might be out of order).
Round 1 - Sanity Grinding - Win, 2-1
An interesting way to start off the tournament to say the least. It was a build with no Twincast, and opted for more enchantment based mill via Memory Erosion and relying on Sunken Hope for board control.
Game 1 - He mills me out.
Game 2 - An early Kitchen Finks which beats down for several turns goes all the way.
Game 3 - Again, early Kitchen Finks beats takes him down but he did not go down without a fight. Ultimately, I managed to kill him on the back of Cloudthresher with my library going down to 4 cards remaining.
Round 2 - Faeries - Win, 2-1
Game 1 - He gets mana screwed, and never gets anything beyond double filter land. I quickly drop 2 Kitchen Finks to take advantage of this, and he scoops soon after.
Game 2 - Far more in his favor. He gets the Turn 2 Bitterblossom, counters important stuff with Spellstutter Sprite and soon flashes in a Mistbind Clique to win the game.
Game 3 - Again he gets out Turn 2 Bitterblossom, but I have a turn 3 Kitchen Finks which after a turn or two, opts to start blocking. We fought back and forth for a while, and the major turning point was when he dropped his second Bitterblossom in hopes of accelerating his victory. Unfortunately, the second Bitterblossom was what led to his ultimate demise. I Thresher'd the board away, and on the following turn dropped Oona, Queen of the Fae. He had no answer in hand, and was frantically using Jace and whatever draw spells he had for her, but it wasn't enough before he did to Bitterblossom.
Round 3 - Quillspike Combo - Win, 2-1
Game 1 - He goes Turn 2 Devoted Druid, Turn 3 Quillspike, I go Turn 3 Firespout, clear the board and we start again. We both lay down creatures, and he throws down a Bitterblossom and eventually I overwhelm him with Finks and Mulldrifter beats.
Game 2 - I should have won this game. On his turn later in the game, he played Nantuko Husk with 4 Faeries from Bitterblossom on the board, Mosswort Bridge x2 out. As he played Husk, I had the option to flash in Cloudthresher to kill the tokens but I stupidly opted not to, and he came in, and Rite of Consumption me to death.
Game 3 - Rode the back again of Finks and Cloudthresher beats.
Round 4 - Kithkin - Lose, 1-2
Game 1 - He is the beatdown, not much to say. Kithkin did was Kithkin does best, and he did it pretty quickly too.
Game 2 - He played a few guys, before I Firespout'd them all away, and then dropped Stillmoon Cavalier. I Runed Halo'd it, and then we stalled.... for a long time. When I finally drew a win condition, Oona, I played here and had enough mana to use her ability to mill him for 14 on the same turn. He scooped, and we moved to Game 3.
Game 3 - Sadly, exactly like Game 1. He came out fast, and I wasn't quick enough to stop him.
Round 5 - Merfolk - Win, 2-1
Game 1 - He keep a hand with 2 Mystic Gate and 2 Mutavault and never draws another land. He gets a few swings with Mutavault in, but can't handle the double Finks that is dropped on turns 3 and 4.
Game 2 - He had complete control of this game, dropping an early Silvergill Adept for card draw, and Bannerett for cheap Sage's Dousing. Between that and his Cryptic Command I wasn't able to play much.
Game 3 - This time I had control, Condemning a Banneret, and dropping a Finks and Mulldrifter which carried my way to victory.
Round 6 - Kithkin - Win, 2-0
Game 1 - He quickly drops me to 13 life, before I play Finks, trade with one of his Figure of Destiny, and then play another Finks the following turn. Eventually, I flashed out Cloudthresher and swung for a lot to win the game.
Game 2 - After waiting 10 minutes for our deck check to finish, we resumed! Unfortunately for him, I had early Condemn and Runed Halo, which allowed me enough time to find Finks and Mulldrifter.
Round 7 - Kithkin - Tie, 1-1-1
Game 1/2 - I don't remember much of this round. From my notes, Game 1 was very close, as far as life totals go, but I pulled it out. And game 2, he whooped me pretty badly.
Game 3 - Draw. If my deck had given me any kind of creature to cast, I could have swung for the win, but alas it did not. Instead, my ending hand was x2 ***s, x1 Firespout, x1 Runed Halo and x1 Vivd Creek. Oh well!
Round 8 - Faeries (UB) - Win, 2-0
Going into this round, I knew I had to win if I wanted to make Top 8, and I had a sneaky suspicion I would play Faeries, if for no other reason than a lot of the people sitting around me were Faeries when we were in Round 7. And I was right.
Game 1 - Bitterblossom ticks down his life total for 10 turns, while I rely on Finks keeping me at enough life to survive the match. I Bant Charm'd his Mistbind Clique during my upkeep, and on the next turn I Cloudthresher'd the board to clear everything, and finished up the game with Finks.
Game 2 - He early Thoughtseize taking Cryptic Command, and then drops Bitterblossom, turn 2 and turn 3. Around turn 5, I played Jund Charm at the end of his turn to clear the board, and let the Bitterblossom continue to eat away at him. When he reached 8 life, I tried to hard cast Cloudthresher which he Cryptic'd, which I had anticipated and was happy he did. He was tapped out and still at the end of his turn I casted Makeshift Mannequin, brought Thresher back, cleared the board and swung for the win the following turn.
So there is what I played at States ( Ohio ) and I had to endure nine rounds of swiss. Not exactly what I had in mind, but whatever.
Round 1: Jank & Mannequin: Yeah uhm, this wasn't a match. ( 2/0 )
Round 2: Toast: Luck of the draw on this one, memory plunder on Violent Ultimatum for the win. ( 2/1 )
Round 3: I played Toast, and I won, thats really all I can remember. -.^ ( 2/1 ) I know Oona, was involved.
Round 4: GB Elves: He ouldn't keep up with Condemn and Wrath, wrapped up with Oona both games. ( 2/0 )
Round 5: Reveliark Stuff: Sort of an interesting list recurring Fulminators, and Ranger of Eos. Basically anything that was stupid with Reveliark was in this deck. We got timed although I could have pulled it out game 3 if we had more time. ( 1-1-1 )
Round 6: RDW: Interesting match, game one he blows me out with a bunch of Hell's Thunder's and I dont see any counter magic. Game two I draw all 3 of my Runed Halo's and he scoops. Game 3 he brings in everlasting torment which keeps my Halo's in check. I esper charm his Torment away, slam down Runed Halo on Flame Javelin at 4 life, and slam one down on Demigod. He had 2 Demigod's and 1 Javelin in his hand. Of course, he ripped a demigod, it wasn't long before Oona took over. ( 2/1 )
Round 7: Cruel Control: He basically just plays more ultimatum's then I have counters for, gets one to stick and the games over. Game two I keep a shady 3 land hand of all filters, and never see another land for 4 more draws. I proceed to scoop and shake hands. ( 0/2 )
Round 8: Crazy Top 8'ing homebrew: This deck is essentially just piles of Plainswalkers and piles of anti creature spells. Pretty janky, but considering he kept hitting Toast MU's he did really well. He slammed down 3 Plainswalkers game one, but I drew 3 Finks and pulled it out. Game 2 and 3 I get blown out by a resolved Shaarkan Vol, that ultimate hurts. ( 1/2 )
Round 9: Faeries: The MU I had dodged all day, with no more top 8 on the line I was very relaxed. Game one he opens on the play with Thoughtseize -- Bitterblossom - Mistbind Clique, Mistbind Clique, ok whatever. Game two I keep a shady 2 lander and hit 3 land draws in a row. He still hits his turn 2 Bitterblossom and then double Thoughtseize stripping away a Cloudthresher and a Firespout. We play back and fourth for awhile, and I manage to keep my life total up, he fails to attack a Jace several times which draws me enough cards to stall him out. Eventually I get a sweeper through, condemn a Mistbind and blossom eventually kills him after a Thresher swing. Game three he misses his turn 2 blossom. He still manages to play 3 Thoughtseize within 5 turns which leaves me pretty much stripped of relevant spells. I proceed to slap down threats which all get countered. He errors attempting to Spellstutter a Mulldrifter, with 1 Faerie short. I allow a takeback ( This is stupid ) and drifter resolves. From that point the game really starts to lean in my favor, I manage to slap down a Runed Halo on Mistbind Clique ( Which he has 2 of in his hand ) and I then proceed to cast threat after threat until Makeshift Mannequin brings an Oona he fails to answer. The game ends to an army of Faerie tokens smashing him down. ( 2/1 )
Final Standing: 6-2-1 - 23 Place: Yes I suck
Final Notes: Revise decklist, practice the mirror a bit more. Edit: Also, I need to stop letting Cruel Ultimatum's Resolve
i ended up dropping once i hit 3-3 and i still cant believe the amount of fae that was present. my matches were, in order, Lark, Fae, Fae, Fae, Fae, Fae. i might as well have just been testing the fae matchup with the buddy that came with me playing it.
the event itself was really fun though, and i ended up getting to talk to chapin about tri-ala draft, which was interesting.
Maybe this is the wrong place to do this, but I've been trying to combine the best out of two lists that I've seen floating around. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to calculate a solid manabase.
Could someone suggest a stable manabase for the following cardlist? Thanks.
I played this at MI states and i put 3 threshers main and 2 chameleon colossii in the SB... this actualy gave me a decent edge against Fae Game 1 and Game 2... Unfortuanately i decided that i'd go with the worst topdecks and getiing either no mana or all 25 every game i played on saturday so i ended up dropping so i could just trade.
Hey, I'm playing 4 Wrath of Gods maindeck, and I was wondering if people side these out against faeries? I know mass removal is necessary against them, but Faeries is particularly good at dealing with four mana sorceries since they a) have a lot of counterspells b) play stuff at eot. Plus, I already have 2 threshas main/2side and 1 Firespout main/1 side. They haven't been working out for me, and I feel like I need room for other cards I want to side in. What do people think?
Yes, *** gets sided out vs Fae... Jund charm is actually a ton better, it's board wipe at instant speed. that way you can play it after they tap out to flash in a scion at the end of your turn.
I played that at MB champs and finished third with it, thus making sure I don't make it three(four with limited) in a row
Rd #1 Faeries 0-2
Mana Problems and a small missplay. I should have let him resolve a thoughtseize against me so that he would have take 2 more damage so I could have thundered him out......oh well
Rd #2 BW Aggro Control 2-0
Second game he was at 40 from gaining life with Ajani and Kitchen Finks and what not. Managed to deck him with Jace though
Rd #3 Rdw 2-0
Fought my way back from 1 life in both games. Gotta love playing tight!
Rd #4 Dunno..... 2-0
uhm yeah
Rd #5 WW 2-1 (with the game loss for having 5 resounding waves and no resounding thunders on my decklist, DOH!)
Wrath, Wrath, finks, finks, ultimatum, cryptic you - rinse repeat + story circle game #3
Rd #6 Rdw 2-0
I offerered the draw since I know my opponent but he wanted to play since prizes were based on swiss performance. Finks and Ultimatum rocked him
Quarters': Rdw 2-0
Rd 6 opponent, rinse and repeat
Semis: Faeries 0-2
Stuck on 3 lands in the second game with tripple Cloudthresher, just a slight annoyance
Beat the faerie player twice in a 4x Sarkhan Vol Tournament the week before....but that was with the lands+spells combo that I couldn't assemble this time...
Hey, I'm playing 4 Wrath of Gods maindeck, and I was wondering if people side these out against faeries? I know mass removal is necessary against them, but Faeries is particularly good at dealing with four mana sorceries since they a) have a lot of counterspells b) play stuff at eot. Plus, I already have 2 threshas main/2side and 1 Firespout main/1 side. They haven't been working out for me, and I feel like I need room for other cards I want to side in. What do people think?
Yes, I would definitely side out ***s against Faeries games 2 and 3 and bring in Cloudthresher and Jund Charm. When all of your removal suddenly happens at instance speed, it becomes much easier to interrupt their creatures, as jjflipped said.
I actually have a different gameplan for games 2-3 and keep the ***s sided in, since they are very good late-game, and they help you win with the "death via Bitterblossom" plan. What I side out are all those clunky expensive spells that hardly ever resolve at the time you need them to. I keep in Condemns and Negates and side out Bant Charm, I keep in Drifters and Oonas Grace and side out Ultimatums(obv), and I try to maximize the number of *** effects(whether they be instant speed or not) so that I don't die. There's only so much you can do against all of their counterspells, and playing one of your instant speed board-clearing spells during their turn can often bait a counter so as to open up a window for one of your sorcery-speed board-clearers.
I find Bant Charm to be really good against Faeries. It's instant speed, so you can kill your opponent's eot creatures, and it can also counter their Broken Ambitions/Cryptic Commands. The only disadvantage is it costs more manas than Negate/Condemn, but since you can play it when they tap out, that's usually fine. I've found Wrath of God to be among those clunky, expensive spells.
I find Bant Charm to be really good against Faeries. It's instant speed, so you can kill your opponent's eot creatures, and it can also counter their Broken Ambitions/Cryptic Commands. The only disadvantage is it costs more manas than Negate/Condemn, but since you can play it when they tap out, that's usually fine. I've found Wrath of God to be among those clunky, expensive spells.
Agreed. I found Bant Charm particularly helpful when I have no counters in hand and they go to Mistbind Clique during my upkeep. At least then, if I don't have the counter, I have some way to get rid of Clique, or another counter spell, so they aren't swinging with it next turn.
I actually have a different gameplan for games 2-3 and keep the ***s sided in, since they are very good late-game, and they help you win with the "death via Bitterblossom" plan. What I side out are all those clunky expensive spells that hardly ever resolve at the time you need them to. I keep in Condemns and Negates and side out Bant Charm, I keep in Drifters and Oonas Grace and side out Ultimatums(obv), and I try to maximize the number of *** effects(whether they be instant speed or not) so that I don't die. There's only so much you can do against all of their counterspells, and playing one of your instant speed board-clearing spells during their turn can often bait a counter so as to open up a window for one of your sorcery-speed board-clearers.
I don't see how you can keep in Condemns but side out Bant Charms. Condemns aren't that great vs. Faeries. It has no benefit that Bant Charm doesn't have. It's cheaper, but that isn't necesarily good vs. Faeries. The fact that it costs 1 mana makes it a lot easier to counter via Spellstutter. The fact that the creature has to be attacking means that the Faerie player hasn't tapped mana yet, so he can easily just Scion in response. Bant Charm does what Condemn does at instant speed, any time. Meaning when they tap out EOT to play something, you can Bant in response. Plus, Bant has the added benefit of countering a CC. Bant is just better than Condemn vs. Faeries.
On top of that, a Spellstutter Sprite isn't randomly good vs. Bant Charm (3cc vs. Condemn's 1cc). I'd rather bring the Condemn count to one, board out less relevant wipers (a single Firespout) and bring in your instant speed anti-Faerie board sweepers.
I'm not sure if this is a valid question, but if the Cruel Control builds are slow, greedy and clunky how do people get away with a 2 Ultimatum + Nucklavee setup, let alone that States deck that scored 6 Ultimatums? I currently still think Cruel Ultimatum is too slow, but running two Cruel Ultimatums and a Nucklavee has started looking really nice again.
The new list I'll be testing out after my dismal 3-4 performance at Champs. Chameleon Colossus was a 2-of in the build I took to Champs, and he was an MVP all day long. Cruel Ultimatum, also a 2-of, was anything but. Getting one in your opening hand really hurts and every time I resolved it, it was either 1. win-more or 2. enough to knock my opponent down to the point where had 2 or 3 cards in hand, one of which would be HIS game-breaking spell, with the others being counter backup. Definitely removing it from the deck.
The new list I'll be testing out after my dismal 3-4 performance at Champs. Chameleon Colossus was a 2-of in the build I took to Champs, and he was an MVP all day long. Cruel Ultimatum, also a 2-of, was anything but. Getting one in your opening hand really hurts and every time I resolved it, it was either 1. win-more or 2. enough to knock my opponent down to the point where had 2 or 3 cards in hand, one of which would be HIS game-breaking spell, with the others being counter backup. Definitely removing it from the deck.
I recently added 2 Chameleon Colossi MD, along with my 3 Cloudthresher. I can't believe I didn't try it sooner. It's been nothing but amazing so far. The Colossus is so good vs. Faeries, and isn't bad against anything. I'm thinking about adding a 3rd MD, or atleast to the SB.
The new list I'll be testing out after my dismal 3-4 performance at Champs. Chameleon Colossus was a 2-of in the build I took to Champs, and he was an MVP all day long. Cruel Ultimatum, also a 2-of, was anything but. Getting one in your opening hand really hurts and every time I resolved it, it was either 1. win-more or 2. enough to knock my opponent down to the point where had 2 or 3 cards in hand, one of which would be HIS game-breaking spell, with the others being counter backup. Definitely removing it from the deck.
very close to my new main deck. the only thing i dont like in the board are the memory plunders; i havent found it to be very effective in the one matchup i bring it in for, 5c, and very lacking against anything else. maybe add the last bant charm and another resounding thunder to the sb, instead? thunder has been very, very good against faeries for me; they've taken it instead of a cloudthresher via thoughtseize more than once. looks good, though.
We had 62 people so it was 6 rounds of swiss. We knew it was a big 6 rounder so all X-2's and some X-1-1's would miss.
Round 1 - Elves
He shows up with no sleeves and a 73 card deck so I'm pretty comfortable this entire match. Every dude he played I killed and won by attacking with Mulldrifter and Kitchen Finks.
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2 - Cruel Control
One of the locals from my shop so I know what he's playing. Game 1 I cast Ultimatum more times than he does and I win. Games 2 and 3 I have to mull and my spells are just outclassed.
1-1 (3-2)
Round 3 - Kithkin
One of my friends friends. He sits down with yellow sleeves which I know my friend had on a Kithkin deck, so I put him on Kithkin. I keep a hand that kills kithkin in game 1 and win no problem. For game 2, I again keep a hand that should destroy kithkin, but 18 lands later, he gets there. 8 minutes left on the clock for game 3 so we have to move quick. As extra turns end, he has a land in hand and no creatures, to my Nucklavee and Mulldrifter on board with Wrath, Bant Charm, and Condemn in hand. He wasn't winning game 3, and with 10 more minutes, I probably was. Oh well.
1-1-1 (4-3-1)
Round 4 - White Weenie
Another one of the locals at the shop I play at so I know exactly what I'm in for. I steamroll him game 1, he didn't put up a fight at all. Game 2 I cast Cryptic at the end of his turn, bouncing his elspeth and drawing a card. On my turn I firespout his creatures leaving 2 open for Negate. Except I didn't have it. I'm able to bluff him out for about 4 turns but it doesn't end up mattering. Game 3 is much like game 1.
2-1-1 (6-4-1)
Round 5 - UBr Mannequin
A very interesting hybrid of the old mannequin decks. It seemed to play a lot like Cruel Control, but used Mannequin and Redcap instead of things like Bant Charm and Condemn. I doubt his deck could do anything against Faeries and it just seemed like a worse version of my deck. He gets me game 1 with a Nucklavee getting back Cryptic on his absolute last chance. I get him on turn 4 of extras in game 2 with a cycled Resounding Thunder and since he was 2-2 and out of contention, he concedes the match to me. A very standup guy and I'm quite grateful.
3-1-1 (8-5-1)
Round 6 - Cruel Control
Game 1 I resolve Cruel Ultimatum
Game 2 He mulligans, then I resolve Cruel Ultimatum.
4-1-1 (10-5-1) 9th Place.
Fun tournament all around but it sucks being the only X-1-1 not to top 8. Oh well, there's always next year (hopefully).
because Jace is an absolute house in the mirror match. If you can resolve him and start drawing, your chances of winning the game greatly increase since the mirror match is all about card advantage.
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Could someone suggest a stable manabase for the following cardlist? Thanks.
2 Cloudthresher
4 Mulldrifter
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Broodmate Dragon
1 Empyrial Archangel
4 Cryptic Command
3 Wrath of God
2 Firespout
3 Esper Charm
3 Bant Charm
3 Condemn
1 Resounding Silence
2 Makeshift Mannequin
3 Runed Halo
1 Shriekmaw
2 Memory Plunder
2 Mind Shatter
2 Negate
1 Jund Charm
3 Vexing Shusher
I talked to him about it Friday night, and he said he was pretty confident in it. I personally don't think he would have played it today had he participated, though.
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My metagame consists of 2-3 Kithkin, BG Elves, Fae, a Mirror, and 2 RDW.
It seems the only reason I win games is because of Finks backup =o
What all do you use the resounding waves and thunders for? Are they really that necessary? I understand they're good against Planeswalkers, but between Negate and Finks I don't seem to have a problem with them.
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Thanks for all the help with the list, and side boarding for the match ups. Me and my team mate took the deck to NY states and both did good with it, i ended up 5-3 due to not being able to handle Jace and playing faeries 4 of the 8 rounds. And he went 6-1-1 and made top 8. Then beat 2 faeries and 1 kithkin deck to win the whole thing!!!
PS is Resounding Thunder our best answer to jace. My only losses where too T1 Seize (my finks) T2 Blossom T3 Jace..........
Also Shin how did u end up? I assume that one of the UB Fae in the top 8 was u
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I made Top 8 with 5 Color Control yesterday at Pennsylvania States. I played RDW in Top 8 and lost to 2-1. Before I go into the day, here is the list that I played.
2 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
3 [EVE] Flooded Grove
1 [10E] Llanowar Wastes
1 [9E] Brushland
3 [LRW] Vivid Grove
4 [SHM] Reflecting Pool
1 [LRW] Vivid Marsh
2 [LRW] Vivid Meadow
4 [LRW] Vivid Creek
1 [EVE] Cascade Bluffs
4 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
1 [SHM] Oona, Queen of the Fae
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
3 [LRW] Cloudthresher
1 [EVE] Nucklavee
4 [ALA] Esper Charm
3 [ALA] Bant Charm
4 [5E] Wrath of God
4 [LRW] Cryptic Command
2 [DIS] Condemn
1 [LRW] Makeshift Mannequin
3 [7E] Remove Soul
1 Plumeveil
1 Condemn
2 Runed Halo
1 Firespout
2 Resounding Thunder
3 Negate
1 Cloudthresher
2 Jund Charm
2 Memory Plunder
No Cruel Ultimatum - I know there has been a lot of talk about whether this is worth the spot in the main board, and during testing before States, I had concluded typically when I played it, I was usually in a position to win anyways. Because of this, I cut it and was never disappointed all day.
Remove Soul - At no point during the day did I regret this over Negate MD. It simply was too good in so many of the matchups that I played that had I had Negate MD I definitely would not have won as many games as I did. It was crucial.
Cloudthresher - I wanted to be able to beat Faeries Game 1, and not have to rely on sideboarding to win me two games. Cloudthresher showed it usefulness far beyond just the Faeries matchup though, and was an MVP all day long. I'd be interested to hear why he was cut from so many builds, because I find him invaluable.
Before the tournament started, I searched around and noticed a very high density of Kithkin and Faeries, which I what I had expected going into the event. What was rather surprising (IMO) was the severe lack of Reveillark, though this did not disappoint me in the least. The round break down was as follows (based of my slightly scribbled notes, so my apologies if they are exactly accurate - At a minimum, I did face all of those match ups, though one might be out of order).
Round 1 - Sanity Grinding - Win, 2-1
An interesting way to start off the tournament to say the least. It was a build with no Twincast, and opted for more enchantment based mill via Memory Erosion and relying on Sunken Hope for board control.
Game 1 - He mills me out.
Game 2 - An early Kitchen Finks which beats down for several turns goes all the way.
Game 3 - Again, early Kitchen Finks beats takes him down but he did not go down without a fight. Ultimately, I managed to kill him on the back of Cloudthresher with my library going down to 4 cards remaining.
Round 2 - Faeries - Win, 2-1
Game 1 - He gets mana screwed, and never gets anything beyond double filter land. I quickly drop 2 Kitchen Finks to take advantage of this, and he scoops soon after.
Game 2 - Far more in his favor. He gets the Turn 2 Bitterblossom, counters important stuff with Spellstutter Sprite and soon flashes in a Mistbind Clique to win the game.
Game 3 - Again he gets out Turn 2 Bitterblossom, but I have a turn 3 Kitchen Finks which after a turn or two, opts to start blocking. We fought back and forth for a while, and the major turning point was when he dropped his second Bitterblossom in hopes of accelerating his victory. Unfortunately, the second Bitterblossom was what led to his ultimate demise. I Thresher'd the board away, and on the following turn dropped Oona, Queen of the Fae. He had no answer in hand, and was frantically using Jace and whatever draw spells he had for her, but it wasn't enough before he did to Bitterblossom.
Round 3 - Quillspike Combo - Win, 2-1
Game 1 - He goes Turn 2 Devoted Druid, Turn 3 Quillspike, I go Turn 3 Firespout, clear the board and we start again. We both lay down creatures, and he throws down a Bitterblossom and eventually I overwhelm him with Finks and Mulldrifter beats.
Game 2 - I should have won this game. On his turn later in the game, he played Nantuko Husk with 4 Faeries from Bitterblossom on the board, Mosswort Bridge x2 out. As he played Husk, I had the option to flash in Cloudthresher to kill the tokens but I stupidly opted not to, and he came in, and Rite of Consumption me to death.
Game 3 - Rode the back again of Finks and Cloudthresher beats.
Round 4 - Kithkin - Lose, 1-2
Game 1 - He is the beatdown, not much to say. Kithkin did was Kithkin does best, and he did it pretty quickly too.
Game 2 - He played a few guys, before I Firespout'd them all away, and then dropped Stillmoon Cavalier. I Runed Halo'd it, and then we stalled.... for a long time. When I finally drew a win condition, Oona, I played here and had enough mana to use her ability to mill him for 14 on the same turn. He scooped, and we moved to Game 3.
Game 3 - Sadly, exactly like Game 1. He came out fast, and I wasn't quick enough to stop him.
Round 5 - Merfolk - Win, 2-1
Game 1 - He keep a hand with 2 Mystic Gate and 2 Mutavault and never draws another land. He gets a few swings with Mutavault in, but can't handle the double Finks that is dropped on turns 3 and 4.
Game 2 - He had complete control of this game, dropping an early Silvergill Adept for card draw, and Bannerett for cheap Sage's Dousing. Between that and his Cryptic Command I wasn't able to play much.
Game 3 - This time I had control, Condemning a Banneret, and dropping a Finks and Mulldrifter which carried my way to victory.
Round 6 - Kithkin - Win, 2-0
Game 1 - He quickly drops me to 13 life, before I play Finks, trade with one of his Figure of Destiny, and then play another Finks the following turn. Eventually, I flashed out Cloudthresher and swung for a lot to win the game.
Game 2 - After waiting 10 minutes for our deck check to finish, we resumed! Unfortunately for him, I had early Condemn and Runed Halo, which allowed me enough time to find Finks and Mulldrifter.
Round 7 - Kithkin - Tie, 1-1-1
Game 1/2 - I don't remember much of this round. From my notes, Game 1 was very close, as far as life totals go, but I pulled it out. And game 2, he whooped me pretty badly.
Game 3 - Draw. If my deck had given me any kind of creature to cast, I could have swung for the win, but alas it did not. Instead, my ending hand was x2 ***s, x1 Firespout, x1 Runed Halo and x1 Vivd Creek. Oh well!
Round 8 - Faeries (UB) - Win, 2-0
Going into this round, I knew I had to win if I wanted to make Top 8, and I had a sneaky suspicion I would play Faeries, if for no other reason than a lot of the people sitting around me were Faeries when we were in Round 7. And I was right.
Game 1 - Bitterblossom ticks down his life total for 10 turns, while I rely on Finks keeping me at enough life to survive the match. I Bant Charm'd his Mistbind Clique during my upkeep, and on the next turn I Cloudthresher'd the board to clear everything, and finished up the game with Finks.
Game 2 - He early Thoughtseize taking Cryptic Command, and then drops Bitterblossom, turn 2 and turn 3. Around turn 5, I played Jund Charm at the end of his turn to clear the board, and let the Bitterblossom continue to eat away at him. When he reached 8 life, I tried to hard cast Cloudthresher which he Cryptic'd, which I had anticipated and was happy he did. He was tapped out and still at the end of his turn I casted Makeshift Mannequin, brought Thresher back, cleared the board and swung for the win the following turn.
4 Vivid Creek
3 Vivid Meadow
1 Vivid Grove
3 Flooded Grove
4 Mystic Gate
2 Sunken Ruins
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Yavamiya Coast
4 Reflecting Pool
1 Shivan Reef
1 Cascade Bluffs
4 Mulldrifter
2 Cloudthresher
4 Kitche Finks
1 Empyrical Archangel
1 Oona Queen of the Fae
Spells:
4 Cryptic Command
3 Broken Amibtions
4 Wrath of God
2 Firespout
2 Bant Charm
4 Esper Charm
3 Condemn
2 Cloudthresher
2 Memory Plunder
2 Negate
2 Jund Charm
1 Condemn
3 Runed Halo
3 Jace Beleren
So there is what I played at States ( Ohio ) and I had to endure nine rounds of swiss. Not exactly what I had in mind, but whatever.
Round 1: Jank & Mannequin: Yeah uhm, this wasn't a match. ( 2/0 )
Round 2: Toast: Luck of the draw on this one, memory plunder on Violent Ultimatum for the win. ( 2/1 )
Round 3: I played Toast, and I won, thats really all I can remember. -.^ ( 2/1 ) I know Oona, was involved.
Round 4: GB Elves: He ouldn't keep up with Condemn and Wrath, wrapped up with Oona both games. ( 2/0 )
Round 5: Reveliark Stuff: Sort of an interesting list recurring Fulminators, and Ranger of Eos. Basically anything that was stupid with Reveliark was in this deck. We got timed although I could have pulled it out game 3 if we had more time. ( 1-1-1 )
Round 6: RDW: Interesting match, game one he blows me out with a bunch of Hell's Thunder's and I dont see any counter magic. Game two I draw all 3 of my Runed Halo's and he scoops. Game 3 he brings in everlasting torment which keeps my Halo's in check. I esper charm his Torment away, slam down Runed Halo on Flame Javelin at 4 life, and slam one down on Demigod. He had 2 Demigod's and 1 Javelin in his hand. Of course, he ripped a demigod, it wasn't long before Oona took over. ( 2/1 )
Round 7: Cruel Control: He basically just plays more ultimatum's then I have counters for, gets one to stick and the games over. Game two I keep a shady 3 land hand of all filters, and never see another land for 4 more draws. I proceed to scoop and shake hands. ( 0/2 )
Round 8: Crazy Top 8'ing homebrew: This deck is essentially just piles of Plainswalkers and piles of anti creature spells. Pretty janky, but considering he kept hitting Toast MU's he did really well. He slammed down 3 Plainswalkers game one, but I drew 3 Finks and pulled it out. Game 2 and 3 I get blown out by a resolved Shaarkan Vol, that ultimate hurts. ( 1/2 )
Round 9: Faeries: The MU I had dodged all day, with no more top 8 on the line I was very relaxed. Game one he opens on the play with Thoughtseize -- Bitterblossom - Mistbind Clique, Mistbind Clique, ok whatever. Game two I keep a shady 2 lander and hit 3 land draws in a row. He still hits his turn 2 Bitterblossom and then double Thoughtseize stripping away a Cloudthresher and a Firespout. We play back and fourth for awhile, and I manage to keep my life total up, he fails to attack a Jace several times which draws me enough cards to stall him out. Eventually I get a sweeper through, condemn a Mistbind and blossom eventually kills him after a Thresher swing. Game three he misses his turn 2 blossom. He still manages to play 3 Thoughtseize within 5 turns which leaves me pretty much stripped of relevant spells. I proceed to slap down threats which all get countered. He errors attempting to Spellstutter a Mulldrifter, with 1 Faerie short. I allow a takeback ( This is stupid ) and drifter resolves. From that point the game really starts to lean in my favor, I manage to slap down a Runed Halo on Mistbind Clique ( Which he has 2 of in his hand ) and I then proceed to cast threat after threat until Makeshift Mannequin brings an Oona he fails to answer. The game ends to an army of Faerie tokens smashing him down. ( 2/1 )
Final Standing: 6-2-1 - 23 Place: Yes I suck
Final Notes: Revise decklist, practice the mirror a bit more.
Edit: Also, I need to stop letting Cruel Ultimatum's Resolve
Thanks to [High~Light Studios]
the event itself was really fun though, and i ended up getting to talk to chapin about tri-ala draft, which was interesting.
my list was:
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Caves of Koilos
3 Flooded Grove
1 Island
3 Mystic Gate
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Sunken Ruins
1 Underground River
4 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Grove
4 Vivid Meadow
1 Yavimaya Coast
3 Cloudthresher
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Mulldrifter
1 Nucklavee
1 Oversoul of Dusk
// Spells [21]
2 Bant Charm
1 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Cryptic Command
4 Esper Charm
2 Negate
1 Pyroclasm
3 Remove Soul
4 Wrath of God
2 Bant Charm
1 Cloudthresher
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Infest
1 Oversoul of Dusk
1 Remove Soul
3 Resounding Thunder
3 Wispmare
Probably too late now but... uh...
Not sure it has quick enough action to get Esper Charm working. Is Vivid Meadow a staple in this deck?
4x Reflecting Pool
4x Vivid Creek
4x Vivid Grove
1x Vivid Marsh
3x Flooded Grove
2x Mystic Gate
1x Shivan Reef
1x Adarkar Wastes
1x Underground River
2x Yavimaya Coast
2x Island
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
4 Vivid Meadow
4 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Marsh
2 Vivid Grove
4 Reflecting Pool
1 Caves of Koilos
2 Island
1 Cascade Bluffs
2 Mystic Gate
2 Sunken Ruins
4 Mulldrifter
2 Cloudthresher
1 Nucklavee
3 Resounding Thunder
3 Condemn
4 Cryptic Command
4 Wrath of God
3 Remove Soul
2 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Esper Charm
3 Story Circle
2 Runed Halo
2 Resounding Wave
2 Mind Shatter
2 Cloudthresher
3 Jace Beleren
1 Firespout
I played that at MB champs and finished third with it, thus making sure I don't make it three(four with limited) in a row
Rd #1 Faeries 0-2
Mana Problems and a small missplay. I should have let him resolve a thoughtseize against me so that he would have take 2 more damage so I could have thundered him out......oh well
Rd #2 BW Aggro Control 2-0
Second game he was at 40 from gaining life with Ajani and Kitchen Finks and what not. Managed to deck him with Jace though
Rd #3 Rdw 2-0
Fought my way back from 1 life in both games. Gotta love playing tight!
Rd #4 Dunno..... 2-0
uhm yeah
Rd #5 WW 2-1 (with the game loss for having 5 resounding waves and no resounding thunders on my decklist, DOH!)
Wrath, Wrath, finks, finks, ultimatum, cryptic you - rinse repeat + story circle game #3
Rd #6 Rdw 2-0
I offerered the draw since I know my opponent but he wanted to play since prizes were based on swiss performance. Finks and Ultimatum rocked him
Quarters': Rdw 2-0
Rd 6 opponent, rinse and repeat
Semis: Faeries 0-2
Stuck on 3 lands in the second game with tripple Cloudthresher, just a slight annoyance
Beat the faerie player twice in a 4x Sarkhan Vol Tournament the week before....but that was with the lands+spells combo that I couldn't assemble this time...
Yes, I would definitely side out ***s against Faeries games 2 and 3 and bring in Cloudthresher and Jund Charm. When all of your removal suddenly happens at instance speed, it becomes much easier to interrupt their creatures, as jjflipped said.
Have/Want List
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
Agreed. I found Bant Charm particularly helpful when I have no counters in hand and they go to Mistbind Clique during my upkeep. At least then, if I don't have the counter, I have some way to get rid of Clique, or another counter spell, so they aren't swinging with it next turn.
I don't see how you can keep in Condemns but side out Bant Charms. Condemns aren't that great vs. Faeries. It has no benefit that Bant Charm doesn't have. It's cheaper, but that isn't necesarily good vs. Faeries. The fact that it costs 1 mana makes it a lot easier to counter via Spellstutter. The fact that the creature has to be attacking means that the Faerie player hasn't tapped mana yet, so he can easily just Scion in response. Bant Charm does what Condemn does at instant speed, any time. Meaning when they tap out EOT to play something, you can Bant in response. Plus, Bant has the added benefit of countering a CC. Bant is just better than Condemn vs. Faeries.
I'm not sure if this is a valid question, but if the Cruel Control builds are slow, greedy and clunky how do people get away with a 2 Ultimatum + Nucklavee setup, let alone that States deck that scored 6 Ultimatums? I currently still think Cruel Ultimatum is too slow, but running two Cruel Ultimatums and a Nucklavee has started looking really nice again.
3x Mystic Gate
3x Flooded Grove
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Cascade Bluffs
4x Vivid Creek
3x Vivid Meadow
2x Vivid Grove
1x Vivid Marsh
2x Adarkar Wastes
1x Yavimaya Coast
4x Kitchen Finks
3x Cloudthresher
3x Chameleon Colossus
4x Cryptic Command
4x Esper Charm
4x Wrath of God
3x Bant Charm
3x Remove Soul
2x Firespout
1x Makeshift Mannequin
2x Memory Plunder
2x Resounding Thunder
2x Condemn
2x Negate
2x Runed Halo
2x Jund Charm
2x Mind Shatter
1x Cloudthresher
The new list I'll be testing out after my dismal 3-4 performance at Champs. Chameleon Colossus was a 2-of in the build I took to Champs, and he was an MVP all day long. Cruel Ultimatum, also a 2-of, was anything but. Getting one in your opening hand really hurts and every time I resolved it, it was either 1. win-more or 2. enough to knock my opponent down to the point where had 2 or 3 cards in hand, one of which would be HIS game-breaking spell, with the others being counter backup. Definitely removing it from the deck.
I recently added 2 Chameleon Colossi MD, along with my 3 Cloudthresher. I can't believe I didn't try it sooner. It's been nothing but amazing so far. The Colossus is so good vs. Faeries, and isn't bad against anything. I'm thinking about adding a 3rd MD, or atleast to the SB.
very close to my new main deck. the only thing i dont like in the board are the memory plunders; i havent found it to be very effective in the one matchup i bring it in for, 5c, and very lacking against anything else. maybe add the last bant charm and another resounding thunder to the sb, instead? thunder has been very, very good against faeries for me; they've taken it instead of a cloudthresher via thoughtseize more than once. looks good, though.
1 Cascade Bluffs
2 Flooded Grove
3 Island
2 Mystic Gate
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Sunken Ruins
4 Vivid Creek
3 Vivid Grove
2 Vivid Marsh
3 Vivid Meadow
Creatures
2 Cloudthresher
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Mulldrifter
1 Nucklavee
1 Shriekmaw
3 Bant Charm
2 Condemn
2 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Cryptic Command
3 Esper Charm
1 Firespout
1 Negate
2 Remove Soul
4 Wrath of God
2 Cloudthresher
2 Condemn
1 Firespout
2 Jace Beleren
1 Negate
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
3 Resounding Thunder
3 Vexing Shusher
We had 62 people so it was 6 rounds of swiss. We knew it was a big 6 rounder so all X-2's and some X-1-1's would miss.
Round 1 - Elves
He shows up with no sleeves and a 73 card deck so I'm pretty comfortable this entire match. Every dude he played I killed and won by attacking with Mulldrifter and Kitchen Finks.
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2 - Cruel Control
One of the locals from my shop so I know what he's playing. Game 1 I cast Ultimatum more times than he does and I win. Games 2 and 3 I have to mull and my spells are just outclassed.
1-1 (3-2)
Round 3 - Kithkin
One of my friends friends. He sits down with yellow sleeves which I know my friend had on a Kithkin deck, so I put him on Kithkin. I keep a hand that kills kithkin in game 1 and win no problem. For game 2, I again keep a hand that should destroy kithkin, but 18 lands later, he gets there. 8 minutes left on the clock for game 3 so we have to move quick. As extra turns end, he has a land in hand and no creatures, to my Nucklavee and Mulldrifter on board with Wrath, Bant Charm, and Condemn in hand. He wasn't winning game 3, and with 10 more minutes, I probably was. Oh well.
1-1-1 (4-3-1)
Round 4 - White Weenie
Another one of the locals at the shop I play at so I know exactly what I'm in for. I steamroll him game 1, he didn't put up a fight at all. Game 2 I cast Cryptic at the end of his turn, bouncing his elspeth and drawing a card. On my turn I firespout his creatures leaving 2 open for Negate. Except I didn't have it. I'm able to bluff him out for about 4 turns but it doesn't end up mattering. Game 3 is much like game 1.
2-1-1 (6-4-1)
Round 5 - UBr Mannequin
A very interesting hybrid of the old mannequin decks. It seemed to play a lot like Cruel Control, but used Mannequin and Redcap instead of things like Bant Charm and Condemn. I doubt his deck could do anything against Faeries and it just seemed like a worse version of my deck. He gets me game 1 with a Nucklavee getting back Cryptic on his absolute last chance. I get him on turn 4 of extras in game 2 with a cycled Resounding Thunder and since he was 2-2 and out of contention, he concedes the match to me. A very standup guy and I'm quite grateful.
3-1-1 (8-5-1)
Round 6 - Cruel Control
Game 1 I resolve Cruel Ultimatum
Game 2 He mulligans, then I resolve Cruel Ultimatum.
4-1-1 (10-5-1) 9th Place.
Fun tournament all around but it sucks being the only X-1-1 not to top 8. Oh well, there's always next year (hopefully).