What I have had problems with is Wb/r Tokens. Either deck seems to just explode without giving us a chance to stop them, anyone else having the same problem?
You're not the only one, I'm also having a bit of hassles with them - especially W/ Vengeant. Sideboard Infest helps but that darned Mogg Fanatic keeps on killing my precious Stillmoon Cavalier. A resolved Siege-Gang Commander is also very miserable. It's a tough matchup that's for sure!
I think I may just need a bit more play practice vs it, do you guys keep in Thoughtseize vs W/ Tokens? It definitely stays when facing W/ tokens for Bitterblossom.
Oh, wait. Nevermind. I should just immediately check IP addresses as soon as someone posts something moronic, because it's almost always shinjutsei.
no. Spellstutter is bad in standard only not when you have bitterblossom, its one extra guy. but negate, remove soul are good all the time, (vendilion also).
If you accept the fact 99% of people are going to hone to beat faeries and nothing else, why play crap like Scion of Oona?
Would you play a 1/1 lord for 3 mana in any other deck? why play it ini a deck so high powered as fae? Yea, its got flash, so does every removal spell. Pointless.
If you have found shroud to be useful, I don't play the same way that you do. I play like CA but not win more CA.
Esper charm are house, because whats better. EOT discard two cards or EOT flash in a 1/1 and they kill it with Tarfire???
How many times does it take for you to get the message? GTFO our forums. Please.
We don't tolerate trolling or flaming, therefore, infraction issued.
Esper charm are house, because whats better. EOT discard two cards or EOT flash in a 1/1 and they kill it with Tarfire???
What's better is not screwing up a consistent manabase to add stuff like Esper Charm. Scion of Oona pulls wins out of nowhere with a surprise 5-6 extra damage, shrouds gamewinners (think Sower of Temptation, Mistbind Clique) and negates spot removal and removal on the most important element in this deck, Bitterblossom. Mirrors are won and lost based on who has a Scion out to see whose faeries are larger. Those all seem like pretty damn good reasons to keep it in to me.
Also, Spellstutter Sprite is amazing, wtf is wrong with you? It's usually a two mana hard counterspell on a flashable body. What isn't to like about it?
Eh I dunno about WB/R Tokens, I havent actually had to play v the deck. I did play v B/W Token Round 1 of Fnm this week and won after losing game 1. I cant quite remember how it went except that the only reason I lost game 1 is coz I kept a near counterless 4 land hand and he dropped two tidehollow scullers and more stuff, in the second game he dropped 3 knight of the meadowgrain, the first pair attacked me down to 4 life (with glorius anthems on the field lol) before I stabilized and turned the game around to win, and game 3 Sower stole something of his and he had no creatures to save himself with.
And everyone at fnm played freaking wheenie, like 50% kithkin decks, a few BW Tokens, one RDW, my faes, Elf Combo, Artifact (why oh why to people keep trying...) and that was pretty much it. On the other hand it means I feel pretty comfortable with the Kithkin matchup. Its just horrible to see them play t1 fod, t2 kotmg, t3 kotmg, t4 spectral when you dont have counters for it.
Anyway Ive found Sower was really great, ive changed my opinion on her, whenever I drew her I benefited from it. I AM only running one atm so maybe thats why, but yeah.
And BTW went 3-1, losing to the elf combo deck that I didnt know existed in standard (make ten billion guys by t4, play some artifact to pump them all by heaps, if it doesnt get countered you win. I won game 2 off of a t1 seize, but JUST lost game 3 to a cloudthresher :S). My wins were two kithkin and one bw tokens.
The problem is that your only counter that works on it is Negate or Ambitions. Most builds don't run negate these days, and if you want to drop your turn 2 bitterblossom to fight his, he has an open area to cast Procession. If you hold back, his bitterblossom kills you. That's the point I'm trying to make.
Ok, good point.
On a semi related note, Id like to make mention of a couple of cardchoices that I have in my list that differ from most here.
THe first card would be Peppersmoke. In a heavily RDW and Wx decks, this card is great. I cant count the turn one FoDs ive killed with this thing.
The other is a bit more unconventional, Sage's Dousing. I like this card because it is a stronger late game spell than Broken Amibitions. I have only in my testing had two occurences where i have been unable to counter something that needed to be countered because they simply paid 3. I know that this doesnt do anything against t2 BB but, it does rape the t3 Spectral Procession. And since all my creatures ecept BB tokens and Scion of Oona are Wizards, I almost always get the card.
Also, the extra CA that both Peppersmoke and Sage's Dousing generate help me enough in the mirrior to help make up for not being able to counter the t2 BB.
On a semi related note, Id like to make mention of a couple of cardchoices that I have in my list that differ from most here.
THe first card would be Peppersmoke. In a heavily RDW and Wx decks, this card is great. I cant count the turn one FoDs ive killed with this thing.
And when you draw it on Turn 3, don't you wish you had a terror instead? Peppersmoke is fine in a Fae heavy environment, but against FoD, it probably isn't going to cantrip, only hits 1 creature and only that creature situationally. Terror seems far superior to Peppersmoke in a heavy RDW or Wx environment.
Except there was innovation at worlds. Rhox War Monk in 5cc was innovation. 4 Peppersmoke main was innovation on Akira Asahara's part. 0 Scions was innovation. It isn't always coming up with the crazy new deck. It is about coming up with a new way to beat people when they wouldn't expect it. He removed Scion of Oona, allowing room for more slots in the main deck for cards better against certain archetypes, which statistically is only a few % in the main deck, it becomes even larger in the sideboard, but overall increasing it where it needs to be to win.
Results show that he won worlds. Statistics also show that his deck had the best MU, compared to the other top 8 faerie decks, against Akira Asahara's faerie deck. It also shows that his faerie deck had the best MU against Hannes Kerem's kithkin deck. Kenji Tsumura's deck had the best matchup against Jamie Parke's, but then it was Antti Malin's!
B/W wants you to keep your silly Scions. Scion is only good against them if you have a Bitterblossom. If you have Bitterblossom, you want to counter their Spectral Procession. If you don't have Bitterblossom, you want to counter their Bitterblossom or Spectral Procession. So against them you'd rather have some sort of counterspell. After sideboard, you having Scions means it is just that much more likely to hit Infest with their Thoughtseize or Tidehollow Sculler.
The same goes with Lark. You want a counterspell.
As far as him going 3-3, I don't know what happened. Do you know the 6 decks he played against? Do you know the play by play and the draws? I don't. What I do know is all of the top 8 and the statistical probabilities. He didn't get any more lucky hands then the other players. He didn't have less bad luck. He got more cards that are good against the other decks because his deck had more slots to play those cards. His deck had better %'s. Don't put him winning worlds as luck. He won worlds not because he played better, he won worlds because he had a better deck.
I could argue this with more factual and concrete replies, but it would be a complete waste of time.
And if their hand and board is in such a position as to allow you to steal a scion, then you're going to win anyway. Most of the time its a card that'll tap you on on your turn and not have any meaningful effect. Yes there are situations where it'll stick against good players, but those are infrequent enough, or win more enough, to not make it worth its drawbacks in an eot deck.
This highlighted argument is such a generalization of not only the card in question, but the tenets of the game itself.
Suppose;
Player A has a board of BB, 2 Tokens, Scion. 4 Cards in hand.
Player B has a board of BB, 2 Tokens. 4 cards in hand.
Player B casts a Sower, stealing Player A's Scion.
Please explain to the readers how Player B was already in a position to "win anyway" (as you have broadly ascertained) prior to casting the Sower?
He was not, he was in a losing position, that was turned around via Sower.
Saying Sower is "bad" (in whatever specific application and match up) because it can be countered or killed is such a generic cop out. The card generates such a strong effect, that it naturally has it's draw backs (any card can be countered, any creature can be killed/dealt with), this is called balance.
The argument for or against Sower in any match up should never be solely predicated on whether it can be countered or removed, rather, the application and relevance it has against the match up that is being analyzed. In this case, the mirror match, it has high potential to outright win games through stealing a Scion or Mistbind Clique.
Your other assertion that Sower is bad against good players is foolish, as good players, including Pro's, run Sower for the very reason(s) I and others have mentioned, over and over again.
And also, Loxodon Warhammer. For those who mise it main, when exactly do you drop it? Turn 3 after a Bitterblossom? Turn 6 to equi straight away? Or wait till you about to die and use it as a surprise?
You go for Hammer when;
1. you have no other relevant plays or counters
2. you have stabilized the board and/or game state
3. turn 3 after BB, barring the match up and any other early considerations
Never be greedy with Hammer, let the deck do it's thing naturally, don't leave yourself tapped down because of casting Hammer with Removal or Counters in hand, when it is not essential.
If anyone has an idea on how to stop a turn 3 procession without countering it, please share it.
You don't, simple as that. You beat cards like Procession through counters, combat tricks, and Scion (pre board).
Running bad cards like Pestermite is not a remedy, it is a dilution of the overall core of the deck.
You stalled a turn 3 Procession (note the key word stall, and not stop as you have indicated in the quote) now what? You have a 2/1, they can play out a 1 or 2 drop, and still have their three drop Procession for the following turn.
The fact your altering your main deck core to presumably "help" against one card in the format is simply incorrect.
The other is a bit more unconventional, Sage's Dousing. I like this card because it is a stronger late game spell than Broken Amibitions.
Sage's Dousing, outside the Wizards version of this deck, and Fish, is strictly inferior to Broken Ambitions. You can not counter T2/T3 plays on the draw, and you can not counter T2 plays on the play. It is also becomes exponentially worse during the mid to late game, where Broken Ambitions still retains relevance.
I got to play a boxing day event, I finished 2nd place winning a box and a half. I lost to B/G Rock in the finals after winning game 1, and having some really bad mulligans game 2 and 3, which was disappointing as this list is really good against Rock.
Peppersmoke was MVP all day long, even good against 5C Control (maindeck Bitterblossom) , not that I needed help in that matchup, but anyways. I played against 3 x Faeries, 2 5CC (both unortodox, one with Bitterblossom and Elspeth and the other with heavy burn elements - like Flame Javelin and Lash Out) , 2 x Kithkins and Blightning Beatdown.
This highlighted argument is such a generalization of not only the card in question, but the tenets of the game itself.
Suppose;
Player A has a board of BB, 2 Tokens, Scion. 4 Cards in hand.
Player B has a board of BB, 2 Tokens. 4 cards in hand.
Player B casts a Sower, stealing Player A's Scion.
Please explain to the readers how Player B was already in a position to "win anyway" (as you have broadly ascertained) prior to casting the Sower?
He was not, he was in a losing position, that was turned around via Sower.
Saying Sower is "bad" (in whatever specific application and match up) because it can be countered or killed is such a generic cop out. The card generates such a strong effect, that it naturally has it's draw backs (any card can be countered, any creature can be killed/dealt with), this is called balance.
The argument for or against Sower in any match up should never be solely predicated on whether it can be countered or removed, rather, the application and relevance it has against the match up that is being analyzed. In this case, the mirror match, it has high potential to outright win games through stealing a Scion or Mistbind Clique.
Your other assertion that Sower is bad against good players is foolish, as good players, including Pro's, run Sower for the very reason(s) I and others have mentioned, over and over again.
Sower is bad because every single card apart from Bitterblossom, Lands and what ever miser card/Vendillion's you run (Which, if ran out turn 3 is also a semi-answer) answer it at instant speed. TWhen played and answered it then opens you up to getting blown out. It's much better to try and Agony Warp/Terror a Scion EOT than it is to try and Sower it because they are less mana, instant speed, and much, much easier to force through.
Another thing is, unless I'm in a position to win, or have the resources to protect Scion, I'm not running him out unless I'm losing or in a position where if I don't run out Scion NOW I will be in big trouble.
That's the reason why Sower is better against mediocre players as Elsyium stated. It's simply thinking through your matchup rather than just playing out the deck - as inexperienced/bad players will.
As for what the pro's do - Some take them out in the mirror, some don't.
All that I know is that Sower has resolved once against me taking Scion. I untapped and cut my losses by agony warping my scion and winning the game in short order due to Cryptic tap and swing. (We both had blossom's, and I actually saved 4 tokens by block phasing Scion and winning the counter war. This is exactly what I mean when I say I can protect it or it puts me in a position to win. After my tokens were saved I didn't care if he Sowered. I win regardless.)
Lastly - the only actual relevant Sower target is Scion. If you take Mistbind that means it's tapped, because it resolved in your upkeep and I already domed you for 4. It also allows me to remove Sower at my leisure, since it's not protected.
I LOVE, love love love love, Sowers played against me in the mirror. Keep playing them, all of you - I like it.
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I usually go -4 Seize, +4 Infest, maybe even taking out spell stutter sprite on the draw as they can't counter anything relevant.
Never, sideboard Spellstutter Sprite out. Kithkin decks are filled with cheap creatures. Spellstutter Sprite is absolutely fantastic, especially in this matchup.
And also, Loxodon Warhammer. For those who mise it main, when exactly do you drop it? Turn 3 after a Bitterblossom? Turn 6 to equi straight away? Or wait till you about to die and use it as a surprise?
@Johm: I'm not sure whether you are actually asking a question, or trying to start an argument against Warhammer.
Warhammer drops when you can drop it. When there's a chance on turn 3 (it's hard to get off the table once it hits), or on turn 5+ with counter backup. It's pretty easy to see why it's such a huge threat, and even though Oona is godly at what she does, she's bad for the same reasons as Sower... sorcery speed, and expensive. The positives for Oona however, is that she's at least hard to answer sometimes. Even so, she's pretty bad in the mirror. Warhammer, however, is pretty cheap in the scheme of things, and completely breaks Bitterblossom stalemates, or even gives you an advantage if you don't happen to have one, etc. (not to mention- a 4+ life swing is pretty huge in a Faeries mirrormatch)
Warhammer's applications outside of the mirror are also everywhere- and probably meaning it to be a nice 2x SB card (which some people do)- but I find it effective enough in EVERY game, that I keep one main, and board the other in for certain MUs. Sometimes the mirror (depends on my board that night to be honest).
Also, why would you board in Peppersmokes for FoD specifically? That sounds terrible. Why not just board in Terrors/Eyeblight's Ending? Hell, even Unsummon sounds better for tempo's sake.
Peppersmoke might have applications in the mirror- not that great if you ask me (not better than Agony Warp or a counterspell)- but it's definitely not great if you are using it only to take out FoDs. Agony Warp does that just fine. So does any other standard removal spell.
As for what to take out for Kithkin... -4 Thoughtseize, +4 Infest for one. I usually take out any remaining counterspells MD for Sowers/removal. I keep SSS's, but I actually agree with Tekno that I might take SOME of them out (for Sowers) on the draw. Sure, they conter a lot of stuff in their deck, but they are on the play- they are done casting FoD and Cenn by the time you play Bitterblossom. You play cleanup in that scenario- forget countering, and start killing. Terror/Eyeblights/Agony Warp/Infest/Sower>>>>Counterspells. As we know, Cryptic is not a normal counterspell, so it gets a free pass.
SSS is not going to do more than trade 1-1 with a spell (and that's not even a guaranteed thing). It does nothing to their best cards. You shouldn't be afraid to cut it in that MU. If you've got a SB card that's BETTER in that MU, then by all means, replace it.
The same goes for Sower in the mirror, as it can randomly be decent- it's tempo at worst- but there are BETTER cards to replace it. If it's a question of "Oh, I have 2 Sowers MD... no SB cards specifically against Faeries, I guess I'll keep them in", than I GUESS it's ok, but as far as anyone is concerned, additional instant speed removal spells are going to go much farther than a 4cc sorcery that's easily answered (at instant speed) by an opponent.
Also, Peppersmoke is just about the worst answer for Figure of Destiny ever beyond turn 1. You try to kill him, and in response they pump him. It can't kill him beyond turn 1 or 2 whatsoever and is pretty useless if you aren't in the mirror.
wha wha? Kithkin isnt so horrible to play against. I mean sometimes they just curve out really nicely for them, dropping 2/2 guys for a few turns that you have absolutely no answer for and just get beaten down, but yeah I mean post board you should be alright.
I side out my two seizes, remove soul, one ponder, one agony warp, and two other cards I feel arent working, and usually side in a second sower, 4 infest, two terror. Dont be afraid to infest even if they have two guys on the field, sometimes that loses them the game :P.
Also, Peppersmoke is just about the worst answer for Figure of Destiny ever beyond turn 1. You try to kill him, and in response they pump him. It can't kill him beyond turn 1 or 2 whatsoever and is pretty useless if you aren't in the mirror.
That's not how you kill Figure; they try to pump it, and you kill it is how it's done. and if it stays a 1/1, then so be it.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time. UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC. WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck. RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to victory 0-2 drop.
???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
That's not how you kill Figure; they try to pump it, and you kill it is how it's done. and if it stays a 1/1, then so be it.
Obviously, but once again, this is useless once they have anymore than 2 lands. And in that case, the card won't even cantrip since you won't have any faeries out. The only practical application for that card is the mirror; having it in for any other match-up is a waste of a precious card slot.
That's not how you kill Figure; they try to pump it, and you kill it is how it's done. and if it stays a 1/1, then so be it.
If only there were a spell that would let you kill a FoD when it was a 1/1, a 2/2, a 4/4 or an 8/8 if they had mana open or not. I'd even pay an extra colorless for something like that.
If only there were a spell that would let you kill a FoD when it was a 1/1, a 2/2, a 4/4 or an 8/8 if they had mana open or not. I'd even pay an extra colorless for something like that.
If only there were a spell that would let you kill a FoD when it was a 1/1, a 2/2, a 4/4 or an 8/8 if they had mana open or not. I'd even pay an extra colorless for something like that.
Peppersmoke's used for a reason. Terror's not used anymore for a reason that's sort of related, but has something to do with Agony Warp. Figure it out yourself. It has something to do with card advantage.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time. UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC. WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck. RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to victory 0-2 drop.
???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
That's weird. From my testing, I've beaten RDW without TOO much trouble. You just need to play carefully and not waste any opportunities.
Tokens is the murder, because 2-3 Windbrisks and you're in for trouble. And that's just their land!
I still feel that RDW is the harder MU, just in general.
Tokens is really tough, but let's be honest - they shouldn't be getting three Windbrisk Heights each game.
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Assuming you are running an ideal list (not trying anything cute- like Peppersmoke MD or something stupid), you side out Thoughtseizes, and put in Eyeblight's Endings, and side out some Scions, V Cliques and counterspells for Flashfreezes, Warhammers.. etc. (not sure what you have MD/SB)
If you have Sowers MD, they should definitely come out.
Use Bitterblossom as a forcefield, don't be afraid to use SSS to chump your way into removal spells, and just ride your CA. Warhammer, Eyeblights, Flashfreeze, and Agony Warp/Cryptic (etc) can definitely win it for you.
There are problem hands on your side and theirs, but it's not unwinnable.
Tokens is basically "Answer SpecProc, and try to win asap while working around 8 Thoughtseize".
Is RDW a horrible MU? Yes. Is it unwinnable? Absolutely not. If you know how to play Faeries, then RDW isn't too much of a headache. Just make sure you resolve that turn 2 Bitterblossom and back it up with Spellstutter Sprites, Remove Souls and Flashfreezes. If you draw fairly well (ie no 5 land in a row), you should be able to win.
Translation: Draw a good hand. Draw gas. Don't screw up once. I'm aware its not autoloss, but its bloody difficult. And far and away the hardest mu for faeries. Especially since the second you topdeck poorly its game over.
And, Divine? I've won plenty of times off a hammer. Even after getting lashered. If the RDW player focuses on connecting with it, they're wasting time and spells, giving your breathing room. And if you can get a hammered up clique across, lifelink or no, its game breaking. Or a hammered up Masticore if you run them still.
EDIT: Also, divine? Don't be a re re. No one is saying RDW is a good matchup. Except apparently Johm, but disregard that because its wrong and we all know it.
As am I mate. RDW is painful. And I've seen few RDW builds running lashout. Regardless.
And if they have board control, why bother forcing a lasher across. I was referring to when its in the early game and they're trying to connect to stop hammer from swinging the game.
You're not the only one, I'm also having a bit of hassles with them - especially W/ Vengeant. Sideboard Infest helps but that darned Mogg Fanatic keeps on killing my precious Stillmoon Cavalier. A resolved Siege-Gang Commander is also very miserable. It's a tough matchup that's for sure!
I think I may just need a bit more play practice vs it, do you guys keep in Thoughtseize vs W/ Tokens? It definitely stays when facing W/ tokens for Bitterblossom.
no. Spellstutter is bad in standard only not when you have bitterblossom, its one extra guy. but negate, remove soul are good all the time, (vendilion also).
If you accept the fact 99% of people are going to hone to beat faeries and nothing else, why play crap like Scion of Oona?
Would you play a 1/1 lord for 3 mana in any other deck? why play it ini a deck so high powered as fae? Yea, its got flash, so does every removal spell. Pointless.
If you have found shroud to be useful, I don't play the same way that you do. I play like CA but not win more CA.
Esper charm are house, because whats better. EOT discard two cards or EOT flash in a 1/1 and they kill it with Tarfire???
How many times does it take for you to get the message? GTFO our forums. Please.
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What's better is not screwing up a consistent manabase to add stuff like Esper Charm. Scion of Oona pulls wins out of nowhere with a surprise 5-6 extra damage, shrouds gamewinners (think Sower of Temptation, Mistbind Clique) and negates spot removal and removal on the most important element in this deck, Bitterblossom. Mirrors are won and lost based on who has a Scion out to see whose faeries are larger. Those all seem like pretty damn good reasons to keep it in to me.
Also, Spellstutter Sprite is amazing, wtf is wrong with you? It's usually a two mana hard counterspell on a flashable body. What isn't to like about it?
Call me crazy, but whats wrong with countering it?
And everyone at fnm played freaking wheenie, like 50% kithkin decks, a few BW Tokens, one RDW, my faes, Elf Combo, Artifact (why oh why to people keep trying...) and that was pretty much it. On the other hand it means I feel pretty comfortable with the Kithkin matchup. Its just horrible to see them play t1 fod, t2 kotmg, t3 kotmg, t4 spectral when you dont have counters for it.
Anyway Ive found Sower was really great, ive changed my opinion on her, whenever I drew her I benefited from it. I AM only running one atm
And BTW went 3-1, losing to the elf combo deck that I didnt know existed in standard (make ten billion guys by t4, play some artifact to pump them all by heaps, if it doesnt get countered you win. I won game 2 off of a t1 seize, but JUST lost game 3 to a cloudthresher :S). My wins were two kithkin and one bw tokens.
Ok, good point.
On a semi related note, Id like to make mention of a couple of cardchoices that I have in my list that differ from most here.
THe first card would be Peppersmoke. In a heavily RDW and Wx decks, this card is great. I cant count the turn one FoDs ive killed with this thing.
The other is a bit more unconventional, Sage's Dousing. I like this card because it is a stronger late game spell than Broken Amibitions. I have only in my testing had two occurences where i have been unable to counter something that needed to be countered because they simply paid 3. I know that this doesnt do anything against t2 BB but, it does rape the t3 Spectral Procession. And since all my creatures ecept BB tokens and Scion of Oona are Wizards, I almost always get the card.
Also, the extra CA that both Peppersmoke and Sage's Dousing generate help me enough in the mirrior to help make up for not being able to counter the t2 BB.
And when you draw it on Turn 3, don't you wish you had a terror instead? Peppersmoke is fine in a Fae heavy environment, but against FoD, it probably isn't going to cantrip, only hits 1 creature and only that creature situationally. Terror seems far superior to Peppersmoke in a heavy RDW or Wx environment.
I could argue this with more factual and concrete replies, but it would be a complete waste of time.
This highlighted argument is such a generalization of not only the card in question, but the tenets of the game itself.
Suppose;
Player A has a board of BB, 2 Tokens, Scion. 4 Cards in hand.
Player B has a board of BB, 2 Tokens. 4 cards in hand.
Player B casts a Sower, stealing Player A's Scion.
Please explain to the readers how Player B was already in a position to "win anyway" (as you have broadly ascertained) prior to casting the Sower?
He was not, he was in a losing position, that was turned around via Sower.
Saying Sower is "bad" (in whatever specific application and match up) because it can be countered or killed is such a generic cop out. The card generates such a strong effect, that it naturally has it's draw backs (any card can be countered, any creature can be killed/dealt with), this is called balance.
The argument for or against Sower in any match up should never be solely predicated on whether it can be countered or removed, rather, the application and relevance it has against the match up that is being analyzed. In this case, the mirror match, it has high potential to outright win games through stealing a Scion or Mistbind Clique.
Your other assertion that Sower is bad against good players is foolish, as good players, including Pro's, run Sower for the very reason(s) I and others have mentioned, over and over again.
You go for Hammer when;
1. you have no other relevant plays or counters
2. you have stabilized the board and/or game state
3. turn 3 after BB, barring the match up and any other early considerations
Never be greedy with Hammer, let the deck do it's thing naturally, don't leave yourself tapped down because of casting Hammer with Removal or Counters in hand, when it is not essential.
See my decklist below;
You don't, simple as that. You beat cards like Procession through counters, combat tricks, and Scion (pre board).
Running bad cards like Pestermite is not a remedy, it is a dilution of the overall core of the deck.
You stalled a turn 3 Procession (note the key word stall, and not stop as you have indicated in the quote) now what? You have a 2/1, they can play out a 1 or 2 drop, and still have their three drop Procession for the following turn.
The fact your altering your main deck core to presumably "help" against one card in the format is simply incorrect.
Peppersmoke MD is terrible unless your meta is predominantly Faeries...any other viable removal spell is better (Terror, Eyeblight's Ending).
Sage's Dousing, outside the Wizards version of this deck, and Fish, is strictly inferior to Broken Ambitions. You can not counter T2/T3 plays on the draw, and you can not counter T2 plays on the play. It is also becomes exponentially worse during the mid to late game, where Broken Ambitions still retains relevance.
I got to play a boxing day event, I finished 2nd place winning a box and a half. I lost to B/G Rock in the finals after winning game 1, and having some really bad mulligans game 2 and 3, which was disappointing as this list is really good against Rock.
I played the list I posted last week:
4 Underground River
4 Sunken Ruins
4 Mutavault
4 Secluded Glen
4 Island
3 Swamp
2 Faerie Conclave
Creatures
4 Scion of Oona
4 Mistbind Clique
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Sower of Temptation
4 Bitterblossom
4 Broken Ambitions
4 Agony Warp
4 Cryptic Command
3 Terror
1 Loxodon Warhammer
4 Thoughtseize
4 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 Infest
3 Flashfreeze
I beat 2x UB Fae, RDW, Doran, Lark, Tokens in the swiss. I beat RDW, and UBw Fae in the T8.
played this list;
4 Bitterblossom
3 Broken Ambitions
4 Cryptic Command
4 Peppersmoke
2 Jace Beleren
4 Scion of Oona
2 Sower of Temptation
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Mistbind Clique
2 Faerie Conclave
4 Mutavault
4 Secluded Glen
4 Sunken Ruins
4 Underground River
2 Swamp
3 Thoughtseize
3 Infest
1 Jace Beleren
3 Flashfreeze
4 Stillmoon Cavalier
1 Sower of Temptation
Peppersmoke was MVP all day long, even good against 5C Control (maindeck Bitterblossom) , not that I needed help in that matchup, but anyways. I played against 3 x Faeries, 2 5CC (both unortodox, one with Bitterblossom and Elspeth and the other with heavy burn elements - like Flame Javelin and Lash Out) , 2 x Kithkins and Blightning Beatdown.
Sower is bad because every single card apart from Bitterblossom, Lands and what ever miser card/Vendillion's you run (Which, if ran out turn 3 is also a semi-answer) answer it at instant speed. TWhen played and answered it then opens you up to getting blown out. It's much better to try and Agony Warp/Terror a Scion EOT than it is to try and Sower it because they are less mana, instant speed, and much, much easier to force through.
Another thing is, unless I'm in a position to win, or have the resources to protect Scion, I'm not running him out unless I'm losing or in a position where if I don't run out Scion NOW I will be in big trouble.
That's the reason why Sower is better against mediocre players as Elsyium stated. It's simply thinking through your matchup rather than just playing out the deck - as inexperienced/bad players will.
As for what the pro's do - Some take them out in the mirror, some don't.
All that I know is that Sower has resolved once against me taking Scion. I untapped and cut my losses by agony warping my scion and winning the game in short order due to Cryptic tap and swing. (We both had blossom's, and I actually saved 4 tokens by block phasing Scion and winning the counter war. This is exactly what I mean when I say I can protect it or it puts me in a position to win. After my tokens were saved I didn't care if he Sowered. I win regardless.)
Lastly - the only actual relevant Sower target is Scion. If you take Mistbind that means it's tapped, because it resolved in your upkeep and I already domed you for 4. It also allows me to remove Sower at my leisure, since it's not protected.
I LOVE, love love love love, Sowers played against me in the mirror. Keep playing them, all of you - I like it.
My DCI ELO Ratings - May they rest in peace :'(
Never, sideboard Spellstutter Sprite out. Kithkin decks are filled with cheap creatures. Spellstutter Sprite is absolutely fantastic, especially in this matchup.
The Kithkin matchup is not bad if you're running a version with 3 x Sower Of Temptation MD and 4 x Infest and 4 x Stillmoon Cavalier SB.
The true problems come in with Rock Elves, RDW and Tokens decks. Especially W/ Vengeant Lark which has such a high density of irksome cards.
@Johm: I'm not sure whether you are actually asking a question, or trying to start an argument against Warhammer.
Warhammer drops when you can drop it. When there's a chance on turn 3 (it's hard to get off the table once it hits), or on turn 5+ with counter backup. It's pretty easy to see why it's such a huge threat, and even though Oona is godly at what she does, she's bad for the same reasons as Sower... sorcery speed, and expensive. The positives for Oona however, is that she's at least hard to answer sometimes. Even so, she's pretty bad in the mirror. Warhammer, however, is pretty cheap in the scheme of things, and completely breaks Bitterblossom stalemates, or even gives you an advantage if you don't happen to have one, etc. (not to mention- a 4+ life swing is pretty huge in a Faeries mirrormatch)
Warhammer's applications outside of the mirror are also everywhere- and probably meaning it to be a nice 2x SB card (which some people do)- but I find it effective enough in EVERY game, that I keep one main, and board the other in for certain MUs. Sometimes the mirror (depends on my board that night to be honest).
Also, why would you board in Peppersmokes for FoD specifically? That sounds terrible. Why not just board in Terrors/Eyeblight's Ending? Hell, even Unsummon sounds better for tempo's sake.
Peppersmoke might have applications in the mirror- not that great if you ask me (not better than Agony Warp or a counterspell)- but it's definitely not great if you are using it only to take out FoDs. Agony Warp does that just fine. So does any other standard removal spell.
As for what to take out for Kithkin... -4 Thoughtseize, +4 Infest for one. I usually take out any remaining counterspells MD for Sowers/removal. I keep SSS's, but I actually agree with Tekno that I might take SOME of them out (for Sowers) on the draw. Sure, they conter a lot of stuff in their deck, but they are on the play- they are done casting FoD and Cenn by the time you play Bitterblossom. You play cleanup in that scenario- forget countering, and start killing. Terror/Eyeblights/Agony Warp/Infest/Sower>>>>Counterspells. As we know, Cryptic is not a normal counterspell, so it gets a free pass.
SSS is not going to do more than trade 1-1 with a spell (and that's not even a guaranteed thing). It does nothing to their best cards. You shouldn't be afraid to cut it in that MU. If you've got a SB card that's BETTER in that MU, then by all means, replace it.
The same goes for Sower in the mirror, as it can randomly be decent- it's tempo at worst- but there are BETTER cards to replace it. If it's a question of "Oh, I have 2 Sowers MD... no SB cards specifically against Faeries, I guess I'll keep them in", than I GUESS it's ok, but as far as anyone is concerned, additional instant speed removal spells are going to go much farther than a 4cc sorcery that's easily answered (at instant speed) by an opponent.
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I side out my two seizes, remove soul, one ponder, one agony warp, and two other cards I feel arent working, and usually side in a second sower, 4 infest, two terror. Dont be afraid to infest even if they have two guys on the field, sometimes that loses them the game :P.
That's not how you kill Figure; they try to pump it, and you kill it is how it's done. and if it stays a 1/1, then so be it.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time.
UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC.
WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck.
RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to
victory0-2 drop.???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
Obviously, but once again, this is useless once they have anymore than 2 lands. And in that case, the card won't even cantrip since you won't have any faeries out. The only practical application for that card is the mirror; having it in for any other match-up is a waste of a precious card slot.
If only there were a spell that would let you kill a FoD when it was a 1/1, a 2/2, a 4/4 or an 8/8 if they had mana open or not. I'd even pay an extra colorless for something like that.
Terror or Eyeblight's Ending? Too bad there's no cantrip.
I think peppersmoke has limited uses. Good for mirror but bad for kithkin and tokens.
Peppersmoke's used for a reason. Terror's not used anymore for a reason that's sort of related, but has something to do with Agony Warp. Figure it out yourself. It has something to do with card advantage.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time.
UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC.
WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck.
RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to
victory0-2 drop.???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
I still feel that RDW is the harder MU, just in general.
Tokens is really tough, but let's be honest - they shouldn't be getting three Windbrisk Heights each game.
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Cryptic command is a pretty cool guy. Eh bounces hideaways while tapping them down and doesn't afraid of anything.
Also I have to call bs. RDW is the worst mu this deck has. Either you're playing against scrubs or you're straight up lying.
Assuming you are running an ideal list (not trying anything cute- like Peppersmoke MD or something stupid), you side out Thoughtseizes, and put in Eyeblight's Endings, and side out some Scions, V Cliques and counterspells for Flashfreezes, Warhammers.. etc. (not sure what you have MD/SB)
If you have Sowers MD, they should definitely come out.
Use Bitterblossom as a forcefield, don't be afraid to use SSS to chump your way into removal spells, and just ride your CA. Warhammer, Eyeblights, Flashfreeze, and Agony Warp/Cryptic (etc) can definitely win it for you.
There are problem hands on your side and theirs, but it's not unwinnable.
Tokens is basically "Answer SpecProc, and try to win asap while working around 8 Thoughtseize".
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Translation: Draw a good hand. Draw gas. Don't screw up once. I'm aware its not autoloss, but its bloody difficult. And far and away the hardest mu for faeries. Especially since the second you topdeck poorly its game over.
And, Divine? I've won plenty of times off a hammer. Even after getting lashered. If the RDW player focuses on connecting with it, they're wasting time and spells, giving your breathing room. And if you can get a hammered up clique across, lifelink or no, its game breaking. Or a hammered up Masticore if you run them still.
EDIT: Also, divine? Don't be a re re. No one is saying RDW is a good matchup. Except apparently Johm, but disregard that because its wrong and we all know it.
And if they have board control, why bother forcing a lasher across. I was referring to when its in the early game and they're trying to connect to stop hammer from swinging the game.