Guys, thank you for posting your deck lists but we really don't need them unless you explain the cards you are using that are not in a standard Jund Token decks. I'm all for new ideas but just posting a decklist doesn't help much and kind of clogs the forum and its harder to find useful posts.
Guys, thank you for posting your deck lists but we really don't need them unless you explain the cards you are using that are not in a standard Jund Token decks. I'm all for new ideas but just posting a decklist doesn't help much and kind of clogs the forum and its harder to find useful posts.
Thanks. Has anyone tested out Earwig yet?
I'm getting some extensive testing in tomorrow with a friend of mine who's ranked pretty high in NC with fae. I'll be checking out some earwig action and i'll let everyone know how it goes :P.
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Earwig's effectiveness is gonna rely on what you take out, so against things like lark it'll probably shine, against toast and faeries, idk. Cryptics maybe?
If you can take out Control/Toast's finishers they can't really win, also I would say Cruel Ultimatum would be a big target for Earwig. You could take out Cryptics though if you wanted instead of going for their finishers.
If you can take out Control/Toast's finishers they can't really win, also I would say Cruel Ultimatum would be a big target for Earwig. You could take out Cryptics though if you wanted instead of going for their finishers.
I thought most of them just beat with all their utility creatures...
I thought most of them just beat with all their utility creatures...
nope they usualy finnish with one of 3 cards now, cruel ultimatum, Oona, or broodmate dragon. usualy having 2 ultimatum, 1 oona and maybe 2 broodmate. so 5 finnisher cards (at most). the things to hit should really be the ultimatum's and oona. the ultimatum's as it hits on our life and hand and somewhat on our board while buffing their life. and oona just cua she can create the hoards of blockers to stall us out to nothing, so those should be the primary targets.
anything else we can more easily deal with.
nope they usualy finnish with one of 3 cards now, cruel ultimatum, Oona, or broodmate dragon. usualy having 2 ultimatum, 1 oona and maybe 2 broodmate. so 5 finnisher cards (at most). the things to hit should really be the ultimatum's and oona. the ultimatum's as it hits on our life and hand and somewhat on our board while buffing their life. and oona just cua she can create the hoards of blockers to stall us out to nothing, so those should be the primary targets.
anything else we can more easily deal with.
I second this. The deck should have access to Guteral response to prevent Cryptic Command from fogging or countering a finisher. Toast has little to no way to win without a finisher, because those Kitchen finks are just not going to cut it. Cloudthresher is not too big of a threat to the deck, and Bant Charm is not the end of the world.
That means you detemine the finisher first. If you get a second, go for the Cryptic Commands and Bant Charms.
Just would like to ask everyone if you think Eyes of the Wisent" target="blank">Eyes of the Wisent is too much of a situational card or if I would be a viable card to SB against Fae and 5CC?
Just would like to ask everyone if you think Eyes of the Wisent" target="blank">Eyes of the Wisent is too much of a situational card or if I would be a viable card to SB against Fae and 5CC?
I've never played with it, wo it depends on its interaction with Bant Charm, Cryptic Command (bounce), and Esper Charm. If it produces tokens in response to those targeting it, then yes, it would make a great sideboard card.
The token comes into play as soon as their blue spell is put on the stack. So it would go
1 Attempt to play blue spell
2 Token
3 Resolution of spell
So even if they tried to destroy or bounce the enchantment we would still get the 4/4 token.
They only problem is that they would wait until their turn to get rid of it would they? It would tap them out on their turn to give us an opportunity to play something.
The token comes into play as soon as their blue spell is put on the stack. So it would go
1 Attempt to play blue spell
2 Token
3 Resolution of spell
So even if they tried to destroy or bounce the enchantment we would still get the 4/4 token.
They only problem is that they would wait until their turn to get rid of it would they? It would tap them out on their turn to give us an opportunity to play something.
actually it goes
1 attempt a blue spell
2 eyes trigger goes on the stack
3 blue spell resolves
4 eyes trigger resolves you get a 4/4...this is an important difference if they are using cryptic to tap you out as the 4/4 will not be tapped.
Its not good because they just kill it or bounce it on the endstep, giving you the 4/4, then wrath on their turn. its not worth the space.
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Quote from TJ-Whoopy »
From TMD
Round One: Bill Copes playing Stax
Bill seems like a nice guy till I see that he's playing Stax and realize (by way of a concrete Magic formula I learned from my 4th grade math teacher) he has no soul.
actually it goes
1 attempt a blue spell
2 eyes trigger goes on the stack
3 blue spell resolves
4 eyes trigger resolves you get a 4/4...this is an important difference if they are using cryptic to tap you out as the 4/4 will not be tapped.
Its not good because they just kill it or bounce it on the endstep, giving you the 4/4, then wrath on their turn. its not worth the space.
Umm, you're wrong. The 4/4 will be tapped. The stack goes in reverse. The most recent trigger/cast will happen 1st. It still isn't worth it, but was just you had your example incorrect.
Also, for everyone who saw me post a few pages ago, I tried to post my decklist after, but the site froze up on me. So, I'm posting it now.
Ok, this version has several things different. The biggest, is the lack of Furystoke Giant. I've played with it a lot. I think that it isn't good enough as a 5cc. I mean, it has a lot of power to it, but it doesn't help the deck where you exactly need it. There are a lot of times where you will be forced to chump block with tokens against aggro, or where control has just tapped out to whipe the board. Furystoke Giant doesn't nothing in those scenarios, which are quite common.
Mycoloth is an unknown powerhouse. It takes only 1 creature devoured to be good. 5cc for a 6/6 that produces 2 1/1's every turn is good. 5cc for an 8/8 and 4 1/1's every turn is amazing. You add on the synergy it has with Sarkhan Vol(steal a creature, devour it, and haste all the tokens the next turn) and Grave Pact, it is just a good choice.
Elvish Visionary is a superior replacement for Dragon Fodder. The "draw a card" is much better then a 2nd token. It helps smooth out all your draws(drastically needed for these token decks) and still gives you a creature to chump or devour.
There has been a lot of debate over Grave Pact, Sarkhan Vol, and Goblin Assault. Sarkhan Vol is really good. It should be played if you have either sac outlets or good spells to give haste. A lot of these versions have both. Grave Pact should be played if you have sac outlets or long-term creatures(ie; Bitterblossom, Goblin Assault, Sprouting Thrinax.) Goblin Assault is only really playable if you have Grave Pact. Otherwise, it still remains a good option as a sideboard card against control.
Loxodon Warhammer is a card I've been suprised to not see. It is a good long win. It forces aggro decks into terrible situations, and it makes control have an incredibly hard time when added on to an ass-ton of token makers. We all know its good, so why isn't it in many lists?
As a final statement, don't play Dragon Fodder or Gilt-Leaf Ambush. Dragon Fodder is just nearly always worse then Elvish Visionary. Gilt-Leaf Ambush is just worse then so many 3cc. It gives you 2 tokens, it gives you the possability of a good removal spell or putting extra pressure against decks with counterspells, but it just does nothing when those situations don't happen. Against most decks, you would just want something else. Resounding Thunder puts a lot more presure on control decks later on, as well as just being a straight up removal spell. Thats what you want from Gilt-Leaf Ambush, at least from the testimony I've heard here.
Umm, you're wrong. The 4/4 will be tapped. The stack goes in reverse. The most recent trigger/cast will happen 1st. It still isn't worth it, but was just you had your example incorrect.
You are correct. switch 3 and 4...dont know what I was thinking. My bad.
I am glad to see another list that is not playing the husk or furystroke. They can be great cards, but very rarely do what I want them to do against control decks. Mycolith seems like it could be very good here, but I think SGC is my guy at 5 mana. I will test both if given an oppertunity. I dont play T2 as much as i used to. The elf is also probably better in every way than dragon fodder, but wouldnt Visera dragger be better than both? It is instant spead cantrip and you can unearth it for cheap post wrath.
I disagree with you on playing goblin assult though. I would rather have pretty much any other 3 mana spell in that slot. Gilt leaf ambush, as underwhelming as it can be is still better than letting your 1/1 goblin bash into a figure of destiny or a kitchen finks or a mulldrifter every turn and get you nothing.
Visera dragger will definately be getting tested at the 2 mana slot over the elf and dragon fodder.
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Quote from TJ-Whoopy »
From TMD
Round One: Bill Copes playing Stax
Bill seems like a nice guy till I see that he's playing Stax and realize (by way of a concrete Magic formula I learned from my 4th grade math teacher) he has no soul.
My only problem with viscera dragger is even though it's an instant speed draw for two, it leaves you open to figures and whatnot in the early part of games whereas dragon fodder and whatnot does not.
I think elvish visionary may be a better idea for the two spot instead of dragon fodder, and I will definitely be giving that a try.
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Luckys Card Shop (Greensboro, NC)
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All Fun and Games (Apex, NC)
Here is another list if you guys care. It doesn't have quite the token theme some of the other lists have, but it still abuses them quite a bit. I've always had a problem with some of the token decks because they weren't as overpowering as you'd like for how easily they get hosed. This deck just has a lot of powerful cards they have to deal with; several with synergies.
Seems to me that Guttural Response is just better than Eyes of the Wisent. Think about it, wouldn't you rather counter a CC or charm than just get a 4/4 out of it? I don't know, though, I'm willing to be proven wrong.
I have to say guys I think I might need to move on to a different deck. This deck is just less then impressive and loses more then i thought it would.
It rolls over to 5CC and Toast, has a tough time to kill Kithkin decks because you need to block with your tokens, same problem with elves and kithkin.
Grave Pacts just don't do enough against those fast creature decks. They have like four creatures out by the time you can even attempt to resolve one.
Could you post your most recent list? I might be able to help out, depending on how willing you are.
The problem with a lot of the lists is the lack of an early game. The deck needs to have constant threats against control, which can only be done through Persist or Token Generators like Bitterblossom or Goblin Assault. Against aggro it needs to have quick removal for their early fatties and then something to be able to counteract the late fatties. Loxodon Warhammer and Sarkhan Vol can outrace those super fatties, like Oversoul of Dusk or Chameleon Colossus. What you then need is to be able to handle fast creatures like Wren's Run Vanquisher or all the Kithken synergies. You have to make the assumption that you will be slower then those other aggro decks. Sure, you can out-race them with a good draw, but you can't rely on that. This is the control deck against other aggro decks.
For these reasons, I made furthur editing to my 1st list, the one more around tokens. I decided that a Maindeck win against aggro decks with a lesser game against the control is better. I have 8-12 slots against those decks if I need them.
I have to say guys I think I might need to move on to a different deck. This deck is just less then impressive and loses more then i thought it would.
It rolls over to 5CC and Toast, has a tough time to kill Kithkin decks because you need to block with your tokens, same problem with elves and kithkin.
Grave Pacts just don't do enough against those fast creature decks. They have like four creatures out by the time you can even attempt to resolve one.
Here is what I have been playing and I have to say that my experience with the deck has been the exact opposite. I role 5cc and toast, and my games are good against aggro 50/50 but much better after boards. The match I cant seem to win is fairies.
From TMD
Round One: Bill Copes playing Stax
Bill seems like a nice guy till I see that he's playing Stax and realize (by way of a concrete Magic formula I learned from my 4th grade math teacher) he has no soul.
I've been doing some testing, and I really like Garruk in this deck. The acceleration into an overrun is really nice, but at the same time it starts shifting the deck towards an Elf-Ball feel. Sarkahn Vol is also great in the deck as long as you've not run into any roadblocks. He really is amazing with Husk though.
I'm not sold by having any planeswalkers in the deck, but they do play well.
Dragon fodder is good for this deck. After testing though, I feel that elvish visionary is definitely a better fit though. The extra card draw+chump blocker/husk fodder is very nice.
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I think there is something to be said for Garruk in this deck, since he helps with hitting your mana, and since you have a large amount of good and easily deployed creatures he can be played, untap some lands to play more, then overrun ftw.
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Arrest this man he talks in math
The Tea Party is the working class fighting against the man fighting for the working class.
It's called EDH kids, there is no such thing as commander.
7 four drop planeswalkers??? just cause you have good cards, dosn't mean that they are always good to run together. its like the Dallas Cowboys, good palyers so-so team.
That necro card is slow.
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Arrest this man he talks in math
The Tea Party is the working class fighting against the man fighting for the working class.
It's called EDH kids, there is no such thing as commander.
Free Steve Argyle! Wizards is Censoring him!
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Thanks. Has anyone tested out Earwig yet?
I'm getting some extensive testing in tomorrow with a friend of mine who's ranked pretty high in NC with fae. I'll be checking out some earwig action and i'll let everyone know how it goes :P.
Play at the following shops:
Luckys Card Shop (Greensboro, NC)
Sci-Fi Genre (Durham, NC)
All Fun and Games (Apex, NC)
I thought most of them just beat with all their utility creatures...
nope they usualy finnish with one of 3 cards now, cruel ultimatum, Oona, or broodmate dragon. usualy having 2 ultimatum, 1 oona and maybe 2 broodmate. so 5 finnisher cards (at most). the things to hit should really be the ultimatum's and oona. the ultimatum's as it hits on our life and hand and somewhat on our board while buffing their life. and oona just cua she can create the hoards of blockers to stall us out to nothing, so those should be the primary targets.
anything else we can more easily deal with.
Ultimate hate of Spellstutter Sprite!
You just lost the game!!!
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The Game!
I second this. The deck should have access to Guteral response to prevent Cryptic Command from fogging or countering a finisher. Toast has little to no way to win without a finisher, because those Kitchen finks are just not going to cut it. Cloudthresher is not too big of a threat to the deck, and Bant Charm is not the end of the world.
That means you detemine the finisher first. If you get a second, go for the Cryptic Commands and Bant Charms.
I've never played with it, wo it depends on its interaction with Bant Charm, Cryptic Command (bounce), and Esper Charm. If it produces tokens in response to those targeting it, then yes, it would make a great sideboard card.
1 Attempt to play blue spell
2 Token
3 Resolution of spell
So even if they tried to destroy or bounce the enchantment we would still get the 4/4 token.
They only problem is that they would wait until their turn to get rid of it would they? It would tap them out on their turn to give us an opportunity to play something.
actually it goes
1 attempt a blue spell
2 eyes trigger goes on the stack
3 blue spell resolves
4 eyes trigger resolves you get a 4/4...this is an important difference if they are using cryptic to tap you out as the 4/4 will not be tapped.
Its not good because they just kill it or bounce it on the endstep, giving you the 4/4, then wrath on their turn. its not worth the space.
Umm, you're wrong. The 4/4 will be tapped. The stack goes in reverse. The most recent trigger/cast will happen 1st. It still isn't worth it, but was just you had your example incorrect.
Also, for everyone who saw me post a few pages ago, I tried to post my decklist after, but the site froze up on me. So, I'm posting it now.
4 Sprouting Thrinax
4 Murderous Redcap
4 Shriekmaw
3 Mycoloth
4 Bitterblossom
3 Goblin Assault
3 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Torrent of Souls
2 Grave Pact
2 Sarkhan Vol
4 Reflecting Pool
4 Savage Lands
4 Twilight Mire
3 Graven Cairns
2 Auntie's Hovel
2 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Sulfurous Springs
4 Vexing Shusher
3 Thoughtseize
2 Jund Charm
2 Primal Command
1 Grave Pact
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Caldera Hellion
1 Mournwhelk
Ok, this version has several things different. The biggest, is the lack of Furystoke Giant. I've played with it a lot. I think that it isn't good enough as a 5cc. I mean, it has a lot of power to it, but it doesn't help the deck where you exactly need it. There are a lot of times where you will be forced to chump block with tokens against aggro, or where control has just tapped out to whipe the board. Furystoke Giant doesn't nothing in those scenarios, which are quite common.
Mycoloth is an unknown powerhouse. It takes only 1 creature devoured to be good. 5cc for a 6/6 that produces 2 1/1's every turn is good. 5cc for an 8/8 and 4 1/1's every turn is amazing. You add on the synergy it has with Sarkhan Vol(steal a creature, devour it, and haste all the tokens the next turn) and Grave Pact, it is just a good choice.
Elvish Visionary is a superior replacement for Dragon Fodder. The "draw a card" is much better then a 2nd token. It helps smooth out all your draws(drastically needed for these token decks) and still gives you a creature to chump or devour.
There has been a lot of debate over Grave Pact, Sarkhan Vol, and Goblin Assault. Sarkhan Vol is really good. It should be played if you have either sac outlets or good spells to give haste. A lot of these versions have both. Grave Pact should be played if you have sac outlets or long-term creatures(ie; Bitterblossom, Goblin Assault, Sprouting Thrinax.) Goblin Assault is only really playable if you have Grave Pact. Otherwise, it still remains a good option as a sideboard card against control.
Loxodon Warhammer is a card I've been suprised to not see. It is a good long win. It forces aggro decks into terrible situations, and it makes control have an incredibly hard time when added on to an ass-ton of token makers. We all know its good, so why isn't it in many lists?
As a final statement, don't play Dragon Fodder or Gilt-Leaf Ambush. Dragon Fodder is just nearly always worse then Elvish Visionary. Gilt-Leaf Ambush is just worse then so many 3cc. It gives you 2 tokens, it gives you the possability of a good removal spell or putting extra pressure against decks with counterspells, but it just does nothing when those situations don't happen. Against most decks, you would just want something else. Resounding Thunder puts a lot more presure on control decks later on, as well as just being a straight up removal spell. Thats what you want from Gilt-Leaf Ambush, at least from the testimony I've heard here.
You are correct. switch 3 and 4...dont know what I was thinking. My bad.
I am glad to see another list that is not playing the husk or furystroke. They can be great cards, but very rarely do what I want them to do against control decks. Mycolith seems like it could be very good here, but I think SGC is my guy at 5 mana. I will test both if given an oppertunity. I dont play T2 as much as i used to. The elf is also probably better in every way than dragon fodder, but wouldnt Visera dragger be better than both? It is instant spead cantrip and you can unearth it for cheap post wrath.
I disagree with you on playing goblin assult though. I would rather have pretty much any other 3 mana spell in that slot. Gilt leaf ambush, as underwhelming as it can be is still better than letting your 1/1 goblin bash into a figure of destiny or a kitchen finks or a mulldrifter every turn and get you nothing.
Visera dragger will definately be getting tested at the 2 mana slot over the elf and dragon fodder.
I think elvish visionary may be a better idea for the two spot instead of dragon fodder, and I will definitely be giving that a try.
Play at the following shops:
Luckys Card Shop (Greensboro, NC)
Sci-Fi Genre (Durham, NC)
All Fun and Games (Apex, NC)
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Countryside Crusher
4 Sprouting Thrinax
4 Chameleon Colossus
3 Mycoloth
4 Bitterblossom
4 Resounding Thunder
3 Loxodon Warhammer
2 Sarkhan Vol
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
4 Karplusan Forest
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Treetop Village
4 Thoughtseize
4 Blightning
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Naturalize
Here is another list if you guys care. It doesn't have quite the token theme some of the other lists have, but it still abuses them quite a bit. I've always had a problem with some of the token decks because they weren't as overpowering as you'd like for how easily they get hosed. This deck just has a lot of powerful cards they have to deal with; several with synergies.
It rolls over to 5CC and Toast, has a tough time to kill Kithkin decks because you need to block with your tokens, same problem with elves and kithkin.
Grave Pacts just don't do enough against those fast creature decks. They have like four creatures out by the time you can even attempt to resolve one.
The problem with a lot of the lists is the lack of an early game. The deck needs to have constant threats against control, which can only be done through Persist or Token Generators like Bitterblossom or Goblin Assault. Against aggro it needs to have quick removal for their early fatties and then something to be able to counteract the late fatties. Loxodon Warhammer and Sarkhan Vol can outrace those super fatties, like Oversoul of Dusk or Chameleon Colossus. What you then need is to be able to handle fast creatures like Wren's Run Vanquisher or all the Kithken synergies. You have to make the assumption that you will be slower then those other aggro decks. Sure, you can out-race them with a good draw, but you can't rely on that. This is the control deck against other aggro decks.
For these reasons, I made furthur editing to my 1st list, the one more around tokens. I decided that a Maindeck win against aggro decks with a lesser game against the control is better. I have 8-12 slots against those decks if I need them.
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Sprouting Thrinax
4 Murderous Redcap
4 Shriekmaw
3 Mycoloth
4 Bitterblossom
3 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Torrent of Souls
2 Sarkhan Vol
1 Grave Pact
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Reflecting Pool
4 Savage Lands
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Twilight Mire
4 Thoughtseize
4 Vexing Shusher
4 Goblin Assault
3 Naturalize
Here is what I have been playing and I have to say that my experience with the deck has been the exact opposite. I role 5cc and toast, and my games are good against aggro 50/50 but much better after boards. The match I cant seem to win is fairies.
4 sprouting thrinax
4 marsh flitter
4 viscera dragger
2 seige gang commander
2 broodmate dragon
spells 16
4 bitterblossom
4 gilt leaf ambush
4 torrent of souls
4 blightning
3 Sarkhan Vol
1 Garruk
Land 24
4 savage lands
4 vivid lands
4 reflecting pool
6 filter lands
6 basic land
4 magma spray
3 jund charm
4 fulminator mage
4 gutteral response
I'm not sold by having any planeswalkers in the deck, but they do play well.
Play at the following shops:
Luckys Card Shop (Greensboro, NC)
Sci-Fi Genre (Durham, NC)
All Fun and Games (Apex, NC)
Here is my version of token deck. What do you think? I relay heavily on token enchantments and sharkan and garruk fit best in the deck.
3 sprouting thrinax
3 creakwood liege
3 mycoloth
2 furystoke giant
enchantment 10
4 bitterblossom
4 goblin assault
2 necrogenesis
instant spells 7
4 magma spray
3 jund charm
sorcery spells 2
2 profane command
Planeswalkers 6
3 garruk wildspeaker
3 sarkhan vol
4 savage lands
2 grixis panorama
2 reflecting pool
2 twilight mire
1 auntie' hovel
1 fire-lit thicket
1 vivid crag
1 vivid grove
1 vivid marsh
2 forest
3 mountain
4 swamp
3 blood cultist
1 jund charm
4 gleeful sabotage
1 shatterstorm
2 firespout
3 vexing shusher
3 shriekmaw
7 four drop planeswalkers??? just cause you have good cards, dosn't mean that they are always good to run together. its like the Dallas Cowboys, good palyers so-so team.
That necro card is slow.