This deck tries to drop the opponent to zero as quickly as it can via a large army of tokens and persist creatures coupled with Nantuko Husk.
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So, is the persist version considered better than the more hardcore tokens version? My deck runs Dragon FodderGilt Leif Ambush and Marsh Flitter with Torrent of Souls but still has the feel of this deck because alot of the cards are similar.
So are they different decks completely, or just different builds? Which is better?
Here's a deck list from the Building on a Budget column at Wizard's website that's more focused on token making. I've got to question some of the guy's choices (like the random Ravenous Rats and the inclusion of Elvish Visionary), but it seems like a solid budget deck and he explains all parts of it for those interested in the archetype.
I think Kitchen Finks is too good not to be maindeck, other than that I'd use Shriekmaw over Terror because of Torrent of Soul's reanimating ability. I'd also throw in some Gutteral Responses for the highly improbable chance you might play Faeries or Five-Color Control.
I think this might have the potential to be a very solid deck for budget players to put together. I'm not sure if straight token-making is better right now than the persistent rock deck that Shin posted, but it's probably better on the wallet.
I know post ALA there was Garg, SeigeGang, and Husk. I'd say now that March Flitter is even more prevalent. Also, it has synergy with Fodder and the Goblin Enchantment.
Actually, money is the reason said friend isn't running Sarkhan. SB Fulminator, a stable manabase, and MD Bitterblossom are likely all more important than Sarkhan in Torrent.
Then again, those are all finishers, and the best finisher most probably is Torrent of Souls, as it can win by itself as long as you have something worthy in your graveyard.
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I like that build, but has anyone considered Mercy Killing here? I've been eyeing this build for a while (I love token decks), and it seems like popping a Thrinax with a Mercy Killing is just an awesome move, and all the things you can do with the six tokens that have just come into play - either hasty beats with Sarkhan Vol, or using the hasted imparted from him to drop Furystroke Giant and have them tap out for big burn, or feeding the Husk, or what not. Would also tempt me to run Unwilling Recruit or Threaten so that you could steal their critter, hit em with it, then pop it with MK. Kind of a pricy combo, but it could be fun.
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Decks
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks) Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks) Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Here is what I have been playing. Sarkhan Vol and Garruk are the nuts in this deck. Both are hard to deal with when so many tokens are always in play. Also bring lots of tokens to play. This deck can make 7 different kinds of tokens!!! I actually want to fit in another Vol...
The side board is still a work in progress, but magma spray has been an MVP in testing, and has been boarded in almost every game. Also I have noticed that furystoke giant is becoming less and less useful as well as nantuko husk.
Most games go:
tap land pass
land BB or dragon fodder
land thrinax or blightning or pass and play ambush on end step.
every turn after this is threat, threat, threat, threat.
Against 5 color control I have not had any problems overwhelming them on turns 5-7 and usually winning the game right after a wrath/spout.
Against kithkin I crushed with magma spray and guilt leaf ambush.
3-2 at FNM last week losing only to the same fairies deck in rounds and the top 8. too many counterspells.
From TMD
Round One: Bill Copes playing Stax
Bill seems like a nice guy till I see that he's playing Stax and realize (by way of a concrete Magic formula I learned from my 4th grade math teacher) he has no soul.
What are the opinions on adding more spot removal to the deck (say, Lash Out)? Seems like we could use the extra bit of reach against Fae and Kithkin (not to mention RDW, Merfolk, etc.).
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Quote from "Kuro42, on Scars of Mirrodin" »
This is the forty-second expansion set in a row that will definitely kill magic, going by poster complaints on the internets.
Sarkhan Vol -> Siege-gang is the best possible play for this deck.
I feel like Goblin Fodder is just Wrath Fodder, perhaps Fulminator Mage instead.
Gilt leaf ambush is just bad. Kitchen Finks instead here.
How is gilt-leaf ambush bad? Instant speed blockers with the possibility of deathtouch...and you get to see if you like your next draw or not? It's saved me so many times that I would have a hard time dropping them from the MD list. The only time I really take them out is against fae when having 1/1 deathtouching blockers doesn't really do anything for me.
Dragon Fodder isn't a great card, but it really helps out the curve and helps defend against early RDW attackers...aside from that I haven't had much success with it. I would consider taking those out for fulminators any day.
Finks could be a good addition to this deck, but I really like the advantage of having instant speed blockers better. Alot of people don't really see that coming and it's helped me countless number of times against people in my own meta and at the 5K this past weekend.
As far as sarkhan vol -> Siege-gang, I agree that it's awesome...but I haven't really been able to test siege-gang's alot as I've been having a hard time fitting them into my curve. The furystokes and the torrents are just too good to remove from the list imo.
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DCI Rules Advisor
Play at the following shops:
Luckys Card Shop (Greensboro, NC)
Sci-Fi Genre (Durham, NC)
All Fun and Games (Apex, NC)
Sarkhan Vol -> Siege-gang is the best possible play for this deck.
Not really.... Many decks go for a turn 5 Furystoke Giant or Torrent of Souls as finishers. In the case you gave, you have at most 13 damage to give in an attack, but you (hopefully) can cast out some dragon tokens the next turn.
Not really.... Many decks go for a turn 5 Furystoke Giant or Torrent of Souls as finishers. In the case you gave, you have at most 13 damage to give in an attack, but you (hopefully) can cast out some dragon tokens the next turn.
Both those require that your opponent has no sweep.
The biggest reason that its a good play is that your opponent is now in a MUST wrath situation. If they dont you untap and they die, or they do wrath and you follow it up with broodmate, or another SGC, or torrent, or marsh flitter...any of these + sarkhan on board = another must wrath situation.
I crushed 5cc because of plays just like this. they dont have the wrath everyturn, and they cant keep up when all of our spells are X for 1's. Blightning has also been a house in this deck forcing control decks to keep wrath effects instead of finishers or counterspells.
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Quote from TJ-Whoopy »
From TMD
Round One: Bill Copes playing Stax
Bill seems like a nice guy till I see that he's playing Stax and realize (by way of a concrete Magic formula I learned from my 4th grade math teacher) he has no soul.
Dragon Fodder is a really bad card for the deck. It doesn't do anything you would truly want it to. Sure, its 2 creatures for Furystoke Giant or 2 chump blockers, but it still ends up being 2 damage. I would much rather have something that they actively have to play around.
The problem with Gilt-Leaf Ambush is that it is 3cc. It competes with Sprouting Trinax, Nantuko Husk, Resounding Thunder, Kitchen Finks, Fulminator Mage, Blightning, and Goblin Assault. The 1st 3 options are superior in nearly every matchup, Kitchen Finks is better against aggro, which is where you might want Gilt-Leaf Ambush in the first place, Fulminator and Blightning is superior against control decks, and Goblin Assault is another consistent token generator for the deck. It is like Bitterblossom, but differen't as well.
As for the token deck I like, I'll post again in just a minute.
Originally I thought Dragon Fodder to be a cool card and perfect for this deck. In my testing it has been unimpressive to say the least.
I dropped the 4 I was playing for a third Sarhkan Vol a 4th thoughtsieze and 2 Vexing Shusher!
the shusher is a great 2 drop that works for torrenting back a creature of an early profane command target (x=2). I run 2 of each. Best of all the get him in early against fairies/bant/or anything running cryptics (that mill deck?) and its good times. Anyone else thinking or using this guy? in minimal testing he's been great.
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I'm good at drafting.
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2 Fire-lit Thicket
3 Gilt-leaf Palace
2 Graven Cairns
4 Reflecting Pool
4 Savage Lands
3 Treetop Village
2 Twilight Mire
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
Creatures
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Murderous Redcap
4 Nantuko Husk
2 Puppeteer Clique
4 Safehold Elite
4 Sprouting Thrinax
4 Profane Command
3 Thoughtseize
3 Bitterblossom
3 Eyeblight's Ending
1 Loxodon Warhammer
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Guttural Response
3 Blightning
4 Firespout
This deck tries to drop the opponent to zero as quickly as it can via a large army of tokens and persist creatures coupled with Nantuko Husk.
Keep all posts on-topic. Decks posted in this thread are to be of similar design and all posts herein are to be related to this archetype. Anything else will be marked as spam and infracted.
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So are they different decks completely, or just different builds? Which is better?
It's just a broader deck now.
7 Mountain
4 Savage Lands
6 Swamp
1 Treetop Village
3 Vivid Crag
4 Marsh Flitter
4 Nantuko Husk
3 Predator Dragon
1 Ravenous Rats
4 Sprouting Thrinax
4 Hunting Triad
2 Loxodon Warhammer
4 Torrent of Souls
If I were to change this deck I'd cut the Elvish Visionarys for Kitchen Finks, Predator Dragons for Furystoke Giants, and probably the Ravenous Rats and one other card for a couple of Shriekmaws.
His suggested sideboard:
I think Kitchen Finks is too good not to be maindeck, other than that I'd use Shriekmaw over Terror because of Torrent of Soul's reanimating ability. I'd also throw in some Gutteral Responses for the highly improbable chance you might play Faeries or Five-Color Control.
I think this might have the potential to be a very solid deck for budget players to put together. I'm not sure if straight token-making is better right now than the persistent rock deck that Shin posted, but it's probably better on the wallet.
L1 Judge
4 Sprouting Thrinax
4 Nantuko Husk
4 Marsh Flitter
3 Furystoke Giant
3 Murderous Redcap
3 Shriekmaw
Spells
4 Dragon Fodder
3 Gilt-Leaf Ambush
4 Bitterblossom
4 Torrent of Souls
4 Savage Lands
6 Swamp
4 Mountain
2 Forest
3 Sulfurous Springs
3 Karplusan Forest
2 Llanowar Wastes
3 Grave Pact
4 Fulminator Mage
3 Everlasting Torment
3 Jund Charm
2 Blightning
Undecided
Extended/Standard+
:symg::symw: Elves! :symw::symg:
EDH
:symr::symb: Wort, Boggart Auntie :symb::symr:
Kiku, Night's Flower
Undecided
Extended/Standard+
:symg::symw: Elves! :symw::symg:
EDH
:symr::symb: Wort, Boggart Auntie :symb::symr:
Kiku, Night's Flower
Then again, those are all finishers, and the best finisher most probably is Torrent of Souls, as it can win by itself as long as you have something worthy in your graveyard.
4 Sprouting Thrinax
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Nantuko Husk
3 Broodmate Dragon
3 Ambassador Oak
4 Bitterblossom
4 Dragon Fodder
3 Sarkhan Vol
3 Torrent of Souls
Lands: 22
2 Fire-Lit Thicket
2 Twilight Mire
2 Graven Cairns
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Sulfurous Springs
4 Savage Lands
2 Karplusan Forest
2 Llanowar Wastes
Is what I plan on testing right now.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
4x Sprouting Thrinax
4x Marsh Flitter
4x Nantuko Husk
2x Furystoke Giant
2x Shriekmaw
Sorcery:7
3x Torrent of Souls
4x Dragon Fodder
4x Gilt-Leaf Ambush
Planeswalkers:3
3x Sarkhan Vol
Enchantments:6
4x Bitterblossom
2x Grave Pact
Lands:24
4x Savage Lands
4x Reflecting Pool
2x Fire-lit Thicket
2x Karplusan Forest
2x Twilight Mire
2x Llanowar Wastes
2x Graven Cairns
2x Sulfurous Springs
2x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Forest
I've built it to try and be as "wrathproof" as possible (torrent, thrinax, bb, use to run ga, etc etc).
Pretty much any game where GP hits the board, I almost always win :O.
Suggestions welcome!
Play at the following shops:
Luckys Card Shop (Greensboro, NC)
Sci-Fi Genre (Durham, NC)
All Fun and Games (Apex, NC)
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks)
Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks)
Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Standard
Waiting for Innistrad...
Extended
Hah!
Modern
Living End Cascade (RGB)
Legacy
Burn
Vintage
None
Casual
WB Aggro-Control
Green Stompy
Pink Floyd (UWr Wall Control)
Lunch Box (Fatty ramp)
D-Bag (White Control)
Level 13 Task Mage
Play at the following shops:
Luckys Card Shop (Greensboro, NC)
Sci-Fi Genre (Durham, NC)
All Fun and Games (Apex, NC)
4 sprouting thrinax
4 marsh flitter
2 seige gang commander
2 broodmate dragon
spells 20
4 bitterblossom
4 goblin fodder
4 gilt leaf ambush
4 torrent of souls
4 blightning
2 Sarkhan Vol
2 Garruk
Land 24
4 savage lands
4 vivid lands
4 reflecting pool
6 filter lands
6 basic land
4 magma spray
3 jund charm
4 fulminator mage
4 flame javalin
Most games go:
tap land pass
land BB or dragon fodder
land thrinax or blightning or pass and play ambush on end step.
every turn after this is threat, threat, threat, threat.
Against 5 color control I have not had any problems overwhelming them on turns 5-7 and usually winning the game right after a wrath/spout.
Against kithkin I crushed with magma spray and guilt leaf ambush.
3-2 at FNM last week losing only to the same fairies deck in rounds and the top 8. too many counterspells.
Sarkhan Vol -> Siege-gang is the best possible play for this deck.
I feel like Goblin Fodder is just Wrath Fodder, perhaps Fulminator Mage instead.
Gilt leaf ambush is just bad. Kitchen Finks instead here.
How is gilt-leaf ambush bad? Instant speed blockers with the possibility of deathtouch...and you get to see if you like your next draw or not? It's saved me so many times that I would have a hard time dropping them from the MD list. The only time I really take them out is against fae when having 1/1 deathtouching blockers doesn't really do anything for me.
Dragon Fodder isn't a great card, but it really helps out the curve and helps defend against early RDW attackers...aside from that I haven't had much success with it. I would consider taking those out for fulminators any day.
Finks could be a good addition to this deck, but I really like the advantage of having instant speed blockers better. Alot of people don't really see that coming and it's helped me countless number of times against people in my own meta and at the 5K this past weekend.
As far as sarkhan vol -> Siege-gang, I agree that it's awesome...but I haven't really been able to test siege-gang's alot as I've been having a hard time fitting them into my curve. The furystokes and the torrents are just too good to remove from the list imo.
Play at the following shops:
Luckys Card Shop (Greensboro, NC)
Sci-Fi Genre (Durham, NC)
All Fun and Games (Apex, NC)
Not really.... Many decks go for a turn 5 Furystoke Giant or Torrent of Souls as finishers. In the case you gave, you have at most 13 damage to give in an attack, but you (hopefully) can cast out some dragon tokens the next turn.
Both those require that your opponent has no sweep.
You're in the same situation if you tap out to play a siege-gang...right?
Play at the following shops:
Luckys Card Shop (Greensboro, NC)
Sci-Fi Genre (Durham, NC)
All Fun and Games (Apex, NC)
I crushed 5cc because of plays just like this. they dont have the wrath everyturn, and they cant keep up when all of our spells are X for 1's. Blightning has also been a house in this deck forcing control decks to keep wrath effects instead of finishers or counterspells.
The problem with Gilt-Leaf Ambush is that it is 3cc. It competes with Sprouting Trinax, Nantuko Husk, Resounding Thunder, Kitchen Finks, Fulminator Mage, Blightning, and Goblin Assault. The 1st 3 options are superior in nearly every matchup, Kitchen Finks is better against aggro, which is where you might want Gilt-Leaf Ambush in the first place, Fulminator and Blightning is superior against control decks, and Goblin Assault is another consistent token generator for the deck. It is like Bitterblossom, but differen't as well.
As for the token deck I like, I'll post again in just a minute.
I dropped the 4 I was playing for a third Sarhkan Vol a 4th thoughtsieze and 2 Vexing Shusher!
the shusher is a great 2 drop that works for torrenting back a creature of an early profane command target (x=2). I run 2 of each. Best of all the get him in early against fairies/bant/or anything running cryptics (that mill deck?) and its good times. Anyone else thinking or using this guy? in minimal testing he's been great.