4 Seaside Citadel, 4 Reflecting Pool, and 4 Treetop Villages are musts in this deck and although you don't like having miser copies of Cryptic Command, my opinion is you play as many as you have. It's Standard's version of Black Lotus.
Wooded Bastion and 4 Flooded Grove are needed too in my opinion. This deck should have a max of 3 basic lands, probably all Forests. I would try to fit in Glen-Elendra Archmage; it's so good in this meta right now.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
4 Seaside Citadel, 4 Reflecting Pool, and 4 Treetop Villages are musts in this deck and although you don't like having miser copies of Cryptic Command, my opinion is you play as many as you have. It's Standard's version of Black Lotus.
Wooded Bastion and 4 Flooded Grove are needed too in my opinion. This deck should have a max of 3 basic lands, probably all Forests. I would try to fit in Glen-Elendra Archmage; it's so good in this meta right now.
Eight CiPT lands is a bit much when this deck works best dropping a manadork turn one. I've been happy with five or six, depending on the day, really. But regardless of the total amount, four Treetops are necessary.
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""Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
I have to agree with Tessie. Eight CITP lands are too many. Depending on what happens this week, I might throw in another Treetop Village, but I went down to two Citadels after I got four Hierarchs in there because Missing a Hierarch drop because of a CITP land is annoying and if I can get one of those in play, I don't need the manafixing as bad.
I don't know what I'll do in terms of Sower or Archmage. I thought I had the Archmages, but ended up not having any, so I might default to Sowers for this week first and see how it goes. Other than the obvious, Archmage is awesome against mass removal because even if you can't counter it with her you can still kick ♥♥♥ the next turn with the Rafiq you've been sandbagging in your hand. It's a little less ♥♥♥-kicking since it would only be four damage, but that's better than attacking for nothing and could definitely be the difference between winning and losing.
This is My list its not done but i like it it consistetly goes 3-1-1 at the local FNM. It needs work what do youguys think.
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Originally Posted by badjuju As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
This is My list its not done but i like it it consistetly goes 3-1-1 at the local FNM. It needs work what do youguys think.
I'd look at the curve. You seem to have too many spells in the four-cc slot, while you have very few in the two-cc slot. Also, this deck shines with 23-24 land, even with six manadorks. Personally, I'd drop the Elspeth count to 3, get rid of the Story Circles (if you feel you need them, put them in sideboard--maindeck, they just slow you down) and add three Jhessian Infiltrators and one more land of your choice.
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""Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
This is My list its not done but i like it it consistetly goes 3-1-1 at the local FNM. It needs work what do youguys think.
It would help if you lets us know about your meta; since that will help us comment better
But from 1st glance, it looks like you only have 4 mana sources that allow you to play a 1st turn BoP or Noble. But is also looks like you are trying to turn more of a Bant Control build; then a Bant Aggro.
I would still suggest you up the number of lands that allow you to play a 1st turn Noble or BoP; running 4 and only 22 lands seems like asking for mana screw.
Also to me; running 7 planeswalkers is overkill; I would cut it down to 2 Garruk's and 3 Elspeth's if you want to run both. Drawing 2 or 3 in an opening hand can make them dead cards. Your curve is also 4 drop heavy, so adding in a few more 2 drops might smooth it out.
Psy
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Currently Playing:
Jeskai Control:42-23-5 Elves: 44-31-3 Red-Aggro: 18-9-0 B/G Energy 21-6-0
This is My list its not done but i like it it consistetly goes 3-1-1 at the local FNM. It needs work what do youguys think.
I agree with the two posts above mine. You have a lot of stuff at 4cc, which isn't a horrible thing, but personally, I would rather drop something a little cheaper and leave mana up to counter something or do something on the opponent's EOT.
Also, you have a lot of planeswalkers and surprisingly none of them are Jace. I would be worried about the late-game because you have no card-drawing in the deck and would more or less be relying on top-decking after about turn five or six. If it were me, I would drop the Garruks and replace them one for one with Jace because I'm not quite sure what Garruk does for you in this deck. Yeah, it's great to play him and then 2x Noble Hierarch or him with mana up for a counter, but that doesn't seem as good as dropping a Rafiq or Jace. Elspeth I'm alright with since she can immediately affect the board and would often enough punch through a ton of damage. Especially if there's a Rafiq on your team.
One last thing. Your mana base could use some work since as it stands right now you only have eight lands that come into play untapped that also produce colored mana on their own and of those, only four produce G for your Hierarch. I don't know what difference it makes to you and I'm not going to tell you how to play your deck, but getting a first turn manadork and accelerating your entire plan a turn quicker seems to warrant more consistency in first turn G. I will concede that that plan won't always work because of the sheer volume of cheap removal, but having the possibility of a mimic crashing over for 14 damage or War Monk creating a 20-point life difference by turn three is very tasty.
So yeah, my suggestions are to work some card-draw of some sort in there and tinker with the mana a bit.
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Post Ravnica Allegiance Type 2 - WUB Control
States '09: 14th place. Aiming for better next year.
States '10: 12th place. Aiming for better next year.
Hey I droped on one Garruk and one Cryptic and one elspeth to put in two jace and a forest and i fixed up the manabase by removing the vivids for yavamaya coast, brushlands, and flodded groves
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Originally Posted by badjuju As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
Another good answer to opponent's Planeswalkers is simply to have creatures with evasion: Vendilion clique, Jhessian Infiltrator, or the Trample from the Mimic or the Treetop (or granted by the Loxodon Warhammer).
I have never been frightened by a Planeswalker so far...
Otherwise, I'm still working on my list. I'm also trying to get a fourth Treetop in there, considering the many sweepers that are being run in the metagame.
Also in my area RDW, Cruek control, Bant control and jund is common we have a large group even reaching up to the 40s some nights
what should I put in.
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Originally Posted by badjuju As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
I agree with most of your arguments, except for the Warhammer: it's definitely not a turn 2 (or even 3 if you don't have your manadork). It's a late game play that will turn every creature draw into an awesome threat (save only for the Mimic if you don't connect it afterwards).
I agree as well with Gaddock Teeg, but remember we nearly all play Cryptic Command, and that's definitely a no-go for this.
If you prefer a more curved aggro deck, with less control and solutions against *** or such (Gaddock / Reveillark), I'd advice you to go and see the thread on the 4cc Chapin's Aggro. It has got good results (Top4 from Kyoto) and the list is tinkered very well now.
I'll probably catch quite a bit of flack for this, but I don't think Cryptics are necessary in this deck. Yes, Cryptics are almost always nice, and arguably one of the best cards in standard right now. But I don't think this deck needs them, and most definitely does not need all four. Most anything you'd ever counter is a board sweeper or target removal. Negate deals with that handily. But, on turn 4, I want to be swinging hard, not holding back land for a counter. Now, of course, you could be using the Cryptic for the tapdown ability, but I think that's second to the counter ability, and more utility can be had with Negates and removal.
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""Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
thank you im only running it becuse people keep saying its amazing in this deck but its not id rather run 4 chem colosos thats how i ran it preconflux cryptic only makes sence if you main board the stoics
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Originally Posted by badjuju As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
Don't run cards because people say they're great in decks. Play cards because you've playtested with them and they make the deck better. This deck is pretty flexible--it can easily be transformed, just by switching a few cards, to focus more on the permission/control aspect or the aggro/control aspect. You have to figure out what works best for you and your playstyle.
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""Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
Here is my Build. I have been watching this thread for about 6 pages, and decided to jump aboard. It a collaboration of all yalls thoughts, with a little of my playing preferences.
Well I figured I would rather run the colosos it seems to make for a stronger deck and its my favorite card
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Originally Posted by badjuju As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
I have lately had to always put out my Hurricane for most games, as well as my BoP which is silly in my opinion, so im left at 2 slots for something and im starting to see a flood of esperlark on the table. So these are getting taken out.
Real point of the post: What would be a good choice for a 2 of instead of Stoics? I just feel the CONs outweigh the risk of the PROs, because im just thinking theres something else out there I could use which is more versatile than her because i know id be getting a massive amount of hate for her.
Would it be workable to have a Glorius Anthem or maybe even Angelic Benediction in place of it? im just contemplating more of the control of the board versus running in full exalted, because the exalted part is the easiest part and the benediction helps slightly for single creatures via exalted, but the Anthem just makes my guys that much harder to kill. Plus its harder to kill an enchantment rather than a creature, seeing as how theres more creature removal than enchantment removal.
Thoughts?
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Thanks to Spiderboy4
iPhone users, if you use imtg or just want someone to play with on your iPhone, add me on the game center: Sgt black lotus.
Currently playing:
Standard - Whatever my friends give me that night lol
I would say if you find that you take those out the most and have room for 2 spots ... then put them to your sideboard, well -1 Hurricane -1 BoP... +2 of the card you side board in the most.... then for the sideboard slot run +2 hurricanes.
I would say if you find that you take those out the most and have room for 2 spots ... then put them to your sideboard, well -1 Hurricane -1 BoP... +2 of the card you side board in the most.... then for the sideboard slot run +2 hurricanes.
Thats the thing, I DO have 2 extra hurricanes in the SB. I stop running them, because they either get broken ambitioned or i pull it early game and never even have use in it... it becomes irrelevent when i have a 5/6 double striker with lifelink in the red zone being blocked by a 1/1 for nothing you know what im saying? I would just rather have something that works well instead of an irrelevent card, they are coming out regardless... hurricanes are SB material.... im just figuring this out.
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Thanks to Spiderboy4
iPhone users, if you use imtg or just want someone to play with on your iPhone, add me on the game center: Sgt black lotus.
Currently playing:
Standard - Whatever my friends give me that night lol
The two cards you mention would work wonders... but besides those, how abou more removal... such as o-rings, i'm not sure what your curve is, having a little trouble finding your updated list.
im begginging to agree with you on benidiction... its an easy, you cant block so die card, plus gives the creature an extra +1 +1 advantage. im actually goin to test that over my cliques, and see how it goes. But is the single BoP necessary?
Actually it sorta is, it give a greater atvantage to accelerate into your turn 2 war monk which is almost neccesary for you to even think about winning.
I thought the Benediction would work.
I just hope I don't get flamed for choosing a jank uncommon.
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Thanks to Spiderboy4
iPhone users, if you use imtg or just want someone to play with on your iPhone, add me on the game center: Sgt black lotus.
Currently playing:
Standard - Whatever my friends give me that night lol
Wooded Bastion and 4 Flooded Grove are needed too in my opinion. This deck should have a max of 3 basic lands, probably all Forests. I would try to fit in Glen-Elendra Archmage; it's so good in this meta right now.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Eight CiPT lands is a bit much when this deck works best dropping a manadork turn one. I've been happy with five or six, depending on the day, really. But regardless of the total amount, four Treetops are necessary.
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
I don't know what I'll do in terms of Sower or Archmage. I thought I had the Archmages, but ended up not having any, so I might default to Sowers for this week first and see how it goes. Other than the obvious, Archmage is awesome against mass removal because even if you can't counter it with her you can still kick ♥♥♥ the next turn with the Rafiq you've been sandbagging in your hand. It's a little less ♥♥♥-kicking since it would only be four damage, but that's better than attacking for nothing and could definitely be the difference between winning and losing.
So yeah, Sowers this week, Archmages next week.
States '09: 14th place. Aiming for better next year.
States '10: 12th place. Aiming for better next year.
Idaho State Champ: 2011
States '12: 5th place.
2x Birds Of Paradise
4x Shorecrasher Mimic
3x Rafiq of the Many
4x Rhox war Monk
3x Noble Hiearch
Planeswalkers-
3x Garruk wildspeaker
4x Elspeth, Knight errent
NONCREATURE SPELLS-
4x Cryptic command
4x Path to exile
3x Story Circle
4x Bant Charm
38 SPELLS
4x Seaside citedel
2x Ardarkar wastes
2x Yavamaya Coast
1x Brushland
2x Flooded Grove
2x Wooded Bastion
2x Mystic Gate
2x Vivid Grove
2x Vivid creek
1x Plains
1x Island
1x Forest
3x Stoic angel
4x Firespout
3x CloudThresher
3x Twilight Shepherd
2x Celestial Purge
This is My list its not done but i like it it consistetly goes 3-1-1 at the local FNM. It needs work what do youguys think.
I'd look at the curve. You seem to have too many spells in the four-cc slot, while you have very few in the two-cc slot. Also, this deck shines with 23-24 land, even with six manadorks. Personally, I'd drop the Elspeth count to 3, get rid of the Story Circles (if you feel you need them, put them in sideboard--maindeck, they just slow you down) and add three Jhessian Infiltrators and one more land of your choice.
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
It would help if you lets us know about your meta; since that will help us comment better
But from 1st glance, it looks like you only have 4 mana sources that allow you to play a 1st turn BoP or Noble. But is also looks like you are trying to turn more of a Bant Control build; then a Bant Aggro.
I would still suggest you up the number of lands that allow you to play a 1st turn Noble or BoP; running 4 and only 22 lands seems like asking for mana screw.
Also to me; running 7 planeswalkers is overkill; I would cut it down to 2 Garruk's and 3 Elspeth's if you want to run both. Drawing 2 or 3 in an opening hand can make them dead cards. Your curve is also 4 drop heavy, so adding in a few more 2 drops might smooth it out.
Psy
Jeskai Control:42-23-5
Elves: 44-31-3
Red-Aggro: 18-9-0
B/G Energy 21-6-0
Previous Played:
G/r Ramp:125-72-3 - Bant CoCo:64-24-2 - Jeskai Saheeli: 62-25-4 - Mono Green Eldrazi: 22-11-2
Bant Aggro: 51-27-6 - U/W/g Midrange: 47-24-1 - Bant: 4-3-0
I agree with the two posts above mine. You have a lot of stuff at 4cc, which isn't a horrible thing, but personally, I would rather drop something a little cheaper and leave mana up to counter something or do something on the opponent's EOT.
Also, you have a lot of planeswalkers and surprisingly none of them are Jace. I would be worried about the late-game because you have no card-drawing in the deck and would more or less be relying on top-decking after about turn five or six. If it were me, I would drop the Garruks and replace them one for one with Jace because I'm not quite sure what Garruk does for you in this deck. Yeah, it's great to play him and then 2x Noble Hierarch or him with mana up for a counter, but that doesn't seem as good as dropping a Rafiq or Jace. Elspeth I'm alright with since she can immediately affect the board and would often enough punch through a ton of damage. Especially if there's a Rafiq on your team.
One last thing. Your mana base could use some work since as it stands right now you only have eight lands that come into play untapped that also produce colored mana on their own and of those, only four produce G for your Hierarch. I don't know what difference it makes to you and I'm not going to tell you how to play your deck, but getting a first turn manadork and accelerating your entire plan a turn quicker seems to warrant more consistency in first turn G. I will concede that that plan won't always work because of the sheer volume of cheap removal, but having the possibility of a mimic crashing over for 14 damage or War Monk creating a 20-point life difference by turn three is very tasty.
So yeah, my suggestions are to work some card-draw of some sort in there and tinker with the mana a bit.
States '09: 14th place. Aiming for better next year.
States '10: 12th place. Aiming for better next year.
Idaho State Champ: 2011
States '12: 5th place.
Agreed. If you have a playset of Cryptics you should be playing them all. Believe me, if I had a playset I would be.
States '09: 14th place. Aiming for better next year.
States '10: 12th place. Aiming for better next year.
Idaho State Champ: 2011
States '12: 5th place.
I have never been frightened by a Planeswalker so far...
Otherwise, I'm still working on my list. I'm also trying to get a fourth Treetop in there, considering the many sweepers that are being run in the metagame.
3x Noble Hierarch
4x Rhox War Monk
3x Rafiq of the Many
4x ShoreCrasher Mimic
3x Jessian infultrator
20 Creatures
4x cryptic command
4x Path to exile
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Elspeth
2x jace
4x Bant charm
18 Spells
3x Treetop vilages
4x Yavamaya coast
2x Brushland
2x Mystic Gate
2x Wooded Bastion
2x Flooded Grove
1x Plains
3x Forest
22 Lands
3x Stoic Angel
3x Martial Coup
3x Cloud thresher
2x Oblivon Ring
2x Twilight sheperd
2x Fire spout
Also in my area RDW, Cruek control, Bant control and jund is common we have a large group even reaching up to the 40s some nights
what should I put in.
I agree as well with Gaddock Teeg, but remember we nearly all play Cryptic Command, and that's definitely a no-go for this.
If you prefer a more curved aggro deck, with less control and solutions against *** or such (Gaddock / Reveillark), I'd advice you to go and see the thread on the 4cc Chapin's Aggro. It has got good results (Top4 from Kyoto) and the list is tinkered very well now.
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Rhox Warmonk
4x Shorecrasher Mimic
3x Inflitrator
3x Rafia of the Many
2x Vendillian Clique
Spells: 17 spells
4x Bant Charm
4x Cryptic Command
2x Jace
2x Martial Coupe
1x Lox Warhammer
2x Elspeth
2x O-Ring
4x Brushlands
4x Flooded Grove
4x Yavimaya Coasts
1x Forest
2x Islands
2x Reflecting Pools
2x Seaside Citidel
3x Treetop Villiage
1x Plains
Here is my Side Board
3x Cloudthreasher
3x Forge Tenders
3x Path
1x Wrath of God
2x Twiligh Angel
I would run 3 Wraths but i only own 1
Much thanks to ~Spiderboy04~ and
Highlight Studios
.: Decks :.
.:Current Standard:.
:symu::symb::symw::symg:Dark Bant:symg::symw::symb::symu:
.:Extended:.
:symu::symb::symw::symr:Affinity:symr::symw::symb::symu:
Real point of the post: What would be a good choice for a 2 of instead of Stoics? I just feel the CONs outweigh the risk of the PROs, because im just thinking theres something else out there I could use which is more versatile than her because i know id be getting a massive amount of hate for her.
Would it be workable to have a Glorius Anthem or maybe even Angelic Benediction in place of it? im just contemplating more of the control of the board versus running in full exalted, because the exalted part is the easiest part and the benediction helps slightly for single creatures via exalted, but the Anthem just makes my guys that much harder to kill. Plus its harder to kill an enchantment rather than a creature, seeing as how theres more creature removal than enchantment removal.
Thoughts?
iPhone users, if you use imtg or just want someone to play with on your iPhone, add me on the game center: Sgt black lotus.
Modern - WURG French Toast
Legacy - WURG Legacy Toast
EDH - UG Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Much thanks to ~Spiderboy04~ and
Highlight Studios
.: Decks :.
.:Current Standard:.
:symu::symb::symw::symg:Dark Bant:symg::symw::symb::symu:
.:Extended:.
:symu::symb::symw::symr:Affinity:symr::symw::symb::symu:
Thats the thing, I DO have 2 extra hurricanes in the SB. I stop running them, because they either get broken ambitioned or i pull it early game and never even have use in it... it becomes irrelevent when i have a 5/6 double striker with lifelink in the red zone being blocked by a 1/1 for nothing you know what im saying? I would just rather have something that works well instead of an irrelevent card, they are coming out regardless... hurricanes are SB material.... im just figuring this out.
iPhone users, if you use imtg or just want someone to play with on your iPhone, add me on the game center: Sgt black lotus.
Modern - WURG French Toast
Legacy - WURG Legacy Toast
EDH - UG Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Much thanks to ~Spiderboy04~ and
Highlight Studios
.: Decks :.
.:Current Standard:.
:symu::symb::symw::symg:Dark Bant:symg::symw::symb::symu:
.:Extended:.
:symu::symb::symw::symr:Affinity:symr::symw::symb::symu:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Rhox War Monk
3 Shorecrasher Mimic
3 Hungry Spriggan
3 Rafiq of the Many
3 Troll Ascetic
1 Birds of Paradise
Tricks:
4 Cryptic Command
4 Snakeform
3 Bant Charm
3 Negate
1 Loxodon Warhammer
4 Seaside Citadel
4 Forest
4 Island
3 Flooded Grove
3 Yavimaya Coast
2 Brushland
2 Reflecting pool
4 Flashfreeze
3 Celestial Purge
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Path to Exile
2 Hurricane
1 BoP
iPhone users, if you use imtg or just want someone to play with on your iPhone, add me on the game center: Sgt black lotus.
Modern - WURG French Toast
Legacy - WURG Legacy Toast
EDH - UG Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Much thanks to ~Spiderboy04~ and
Highlight Studios
.: Decks :.
.:Current Standard:.
:symu::symb::symw::symg:Dark Bant:symg::symw::symb::symu:
.:Extended:.
:symu::symb::symw::symr:Affinity:symr::symw::symb::symu:
I thought the Benediction would work.
I just hope I don't get flamed for choosing a jank uncommon.
iPhone users, if you use imtg or just want someone to play with on your iPhone, add me on the game center: Sgt black lotus.
Modern - WURG French Toast
Legacy - WURG Legacy Toast
EDH - UG Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Much thanks to ~Spiderboy04~ and
Highlight Studios
.: Decks :.
.:Current Standard:.
:symu::symb::symw::symg:Dark Bant:symg::symw::symb::symu:
.:Extended:.
:symu::symb::symw::symr:Affinity:symr::symw::symb::symu: