I don't see how it would make it faster? It doesn't provide any advantage, except for untapping Nettle Sentinel.
I agree w/Sylk, untapping Nettle Sentinel and perhaps a slight bit of deck thinning doesn't warrant what is imo a useless card taking up valuable spots. However, if it works for you, I will only wish you luck!
On another note:
Grrr...3-1 at FNM tonight, 5th place for second week in a row. Only loss was to 2nd place Lark guy. I seem to hover in that 4th-6th place range, and I think my problem is I can't quite get my SB quite right. Lark is always a problem for me, but tonight even 3 Faerie Macabres and 2 Riftsweepers, not to mention 3 Mercy Killing thrown in to give me a little spot removal, was not enough. If I try devoting more than 5 true SB spots against Lark I fear I will worsen my MUs against other stuff like RDW, Fae, and Doran. Does anyone have a SB that they feel super confident in, especially against Lark?
I think finks is good in this deck. Really, the "combo" doesn't explode all that often, and you need a back up plan or a plan at all against RDW
My take on this matchup, and it generally works, is to run main-decked Harmonize. I run 4, and it helps me immensely. Even if your hand doesn't develop quickly, usually you can find answers and speed up the game a bit by drawing through your deck. It's not "aggro" by any means, but it also helps when you ball out, by providing some lasting appeal in case the first wave doesn't get there. DDW doesn't really shoot burn at the face, so unless you are staring down 2 demigods themselves, generally you are in pretty good shape to Alpha strike by turn 6 (the earliest they could have two Demigods, assuming they do not lose a land drop.) The efficiency of the creatures, plus the explosion, can often ovverun DDW pretty quickly. Also, Gaea's anthems, as someone was kind enough to point out to me, can quickly take your stuff out of burn range, with absolutely no way for red decks to deal with it. You kind of just have to be faster in this matchup, however, I do sideboard mercy killing for emergency removal, and thoughtseize (my splashed color is black) for other troublesome cards.
I agree w/Sylk, untapping Nettle Sentinel and perhaps a slight bit of deck thinning doesn't warrant what is imo a useless card taking up valuable spots. However, if it works for you, I will only wish you luck!
On another note:
Grrr...3-1 at FNM tonight, 5th place for second week in a row. Only loss was to 2nd place Lark guy. I seem to hover in that 4th-6th place range, and I think my problem is I can't quite get my SB quite right. Lark is always a problem for me, but tonight even 3 Faerie Macabres and 2 Riftsweepers, not to mention 3 Mercy Killing thrown in to give me a little spot removal, was not enough. If I try devoting more than 5 true SB spots against Lark I fear I will worsen my MUs against other stuff like RDW, Fae, and Doran. Does anyone have a SB that they feel super confident in, especially against Lark?
Shouldn't 4 extirpates be good enough? I mean they need the reveillark to actually play the deck, so just RFG it and you're good to go.
Sideboard for this deck should just be 3-4 Elvish Harbingers and a bunch of utility elves, plus faerie macabre, etc.
and you really should splash back with Gilt-Leaf Palace and Llanowar Wastes, they give you black mana without sacrificing the ability to produce green. this also allows you to run eyeblight's ending and prowess of the fair.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time. UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC. WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck. RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to victory 0-2 drop.
???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
So my Meta is all burn...I just cant get any wins.There's some Faeries, some Lark but mostly burn. They hit my Heritage druid which means Vigor isn't going to ever get out. Any ideas?
Coat of Arms could work if there are no other tribals running around (Not counting Fae because you should stomp them with little difficulty anyway). Maybe try to squeeze 2 Boreal Druids again to help with the mana.
Also, running Gaea's Anthem over Champion really helps against the RDW match up.
I've been away for almost a month, and just checking up on this thread, i've noticed no one is running garrak or harmonize anymore. I personally love both of then in the deck. Whats the overall consensus on this?
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So my Meta is all burn...I just cant get any wins.There's some Faeries, some Lark but mostly burn. They hit my Heritage druid which means Vigor isn't going to ever get out. Any ideas?
play closer to mono-green aggro, as elf-ball easily converts to it. it means no more heritage druid, etc. just check up on the green/white aggro thread for more info. you'll go from the bottom of the food chain to the top, trust me.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time. UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC. WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck. RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to victory 0-2 drop.
???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
play closer to mono-green aggro, as elf-ball easily converts to it. it means no more heritage druid, etc. just check up on the green/white aggro thread for more info. you'll go from the bottom of the food chain to the top, trust me.
I endorse this message. use that ballin' enchantment they have as well.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time. UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC. WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck. RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to victory 0-2 drop.
???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time. UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC. WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck. RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to victory 0-2 drop.
???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
They should switch to G/b Elf-ball then, as it can't be slower than mono-green elf ball and is more versatile.
Switching to G/B can definately be slower, as you're likely adding Thoughtseize to ANY deck you splash black for (as it deals with your biggest problems before they can impact the game), aswell as something along the lines of Sudden Spoiling, which is one of the best cards ever printed for a token archetype IMHO.
As an aside, why don't people run Minion's Murmurs over the stupidly complex Manamorphose - Distant Melody shenanigans? It lets you stay in a better color without needing jank to fuel it.
Sideboard for this deck should just be 3-4 Elvish Harbingers and a bunch of utility elves, plus faerie macabre, etc.
and you really should splash back with Gilt-Leaf Palace and Llanowar Wastes, they give you black mana without sacrificing the ability to produce green. this also allows you to run eyeblight's ending and prowess of the fair.
You want to elaborate on the harbingers deal? I'm honestly interested, I just can't seem to find room for harbingers... they could be our amazing post-wrath drop.
have you guys tried using Snakeform? seems like a good answer to a dying reveilark or to deal with an evolved FoD, plus it draws you a card!
I much prefer Slaughter Pact to Snakeform because you can still take full advantage of your three-drop without having to worry about leaving mana open for a cantrip.
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how can this deck build be considered Elf-BALL?! elf ball was turn2, drop a ton of elves to tap for mana to power Fireball turn two...
well... we still can. profane command. with my build i have gone combo turn 2, but it usually resolves turn 3 or 4.
how can this deck build be considered Elf-BALL?! elf ball was turn2, drop a ton of elves to tap for mana to power Fireball turn two...
well... we still can. profane command. with my build i have gone combo turn 2, but it usually resolves turn 3 or 4.
And it's not about the mirror matchup, it's about the other matchups, and it's about the damnations and the firespouts and the wraths and the pyroclasms. GB is more resilient against alot of cards.
You want to elaborate on the harbingers deal? I'm honestly interested, I just can't seem to find room for harbingers... they could be our amazing post-wrath drop.
Harbinger for a hard to kill chameleon colossus post-wrath, prowess of the fair for a Pre-wrath drop, Namesless Inversion or eyeblight's ending to get rid of Overrun-killing Gaddock Teeg, Promenade against decks without mass removal, etc. I'm trying to remember what my sideboard looked like, it was pretty fun to play. Slowed the game down by 1 turn, but it was worth it in alot of situations. I think this was what it was:
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time. UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC. WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck. RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to victory 0-2 drop.
???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
my build taps all my elves i can combo with turn two and profane for like 22-34 loss of life... T2 gg no wrath worries.
I don't care if I get warned or an infraction, you're an idiot.
you run 4 gilt-leaf palace and expect to have double black. you also expect to draw an essential part of your combo without tutoring and you're also running only two profane command and you seem to consider that essential to your strategy.
I don't ever remember a deck using elves and fireball, but if you have a problem with the name go complain to the mods, don't make stupid posts.
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@Xtruder- didn't see you said elf-ball, I meant GB elves. I really want to figure out a way to fit eyeblights and prowess in. I don't really like the harbinger deal, seems too slow.
I suggest playing the deck at least a couple dozen times before making such statements. 14 lands and only 4 black sources of mana are a serious problem.
With 10-11 sources of a color (lands, most of the time), you can expect to be able to produce one of it reliably. 8 sources is the bare minimum. For double costs, you need even more. I wouldn't try to splash for even just Prowess of the Fair with 4 sources.
Then TEST the deck, don't come back saying anything before you have actually done it.
well friend i have played the deck a couple dozen times, if you know how to juggle your mana, you can make this deck ramp so fast to drop regal, draw out at least 14 cards, keep juggling mana by droping one drops, untapping nettle and producing enough mana for a manamorphose adding BB to the pool along with about 22-38 green profane for the win...
I agree w/Sylk, untapping Nettle Sentinel and perhaps a slight bit of deck thinning doesn't warrant what is imo a useless card taking up valuable spots. However, if it works for you, I will only wish you luck!
On another note:
Grrr...3-1 at FNM tonight, 5th place for second week in a row. Only loss was to 2nd place Lark guy. I seem to hover in that 4th-6th place range, and I think my problem is I can't quite get my SB quite right. Lark is always a problem for me, but tonight even 3 Faerie Macabres and 2 Riftsweepers, not to mention 3 Mercy Killing thrown in to give me a little spot removal, was not enough. If I try devoting more than 5 true SB spots against Lark I fear I will worsen my MUs against other stuff like RDW, Fae, and Doran. Does anyone have a SB that they feel super confident in, especially against Lark?
My take on this matchup, and it generally works, is to run main-decked Harmonize. I run 4, and it helps me immensely. Even if your hand doesn't develop quickly, usually you can find answers and speed up the game a bit by drawing through your deck. It's not "aggro" by any means, but it also helps when you ball out, by providing some lasting appeal in case the first wave doesn't get there. DDW doesn't really shoot burn at the face, so unless you are staring down 2 demigods themselves, generally you are in pretty good shape to Alpha strike by turn 6 (the earliest they could have two Demigods, assuming they do not lose a land drop.) The efficiency of the creatures, plus the explosion, can often ovverun DDW pretty quickly. Also, Gaea's anthems, as someone was kind enough to point out to me, can quickly take your stuff out of burn range, with absolutely no way for red decks to deal with it. You kind of just have to be faster in this matchup, however, I do sideboard mercy killing for emergency removal, and thoughtseize (my splashed color is black) for other troublesome cards.
Shouldn't 4 extirpates be good enough? I mean they need the reveillark to actually play the deck, so just RFG it and you're good to go.
- Benjammn
and you really should splash back with Gilt-Leaf Palace and Llanowar Wastes, they give you black mana without sacrificing the ability to produce green. this also allows you to run eyeblight's ending and prowess of the fair.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time.
UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC.
WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck.
RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to
victory0-2 drop.???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
Thanks to Zaphod at High~Light Studios
Also, running Gaea's Anthem over Champion really helps against the RDW match up.
98% of the internet population has a Myspace. If you're part of the 2% that isn't an emo, copy and paste this into your sig.
play closer to mono-green aggro, as elf-ball easily converts to it. it means no more heritage druid, etc. just check up on the green/white aggro thread for more info. you'll go from the bottom of the food chain to the top, trust me.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time.
UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC.
WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck.
RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to
victory0-2 drop.???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
I endorse this message. use that ballin' enchantment they have as well.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time.
UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC.
WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck.
RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to
victory0-2 drop.???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time.
UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC.
WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck.
RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to
victory0-2 drop.???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
Switching to G/B can definately be slower, as you're likely adding Thoughtseize to ANY deck you splash black for (as it deals with your biggest problems before they can impact the game), aswell as something along the lines of Sudden Spoiling, which is one of the best cards ever printed for a token archetype IMHO.
As an aside, why don't people run Minion's Murmurs over the stupidly complex Manamorphose - Distant Melody shenanigans? It lets you stay in a better color without needing jank to fuel it.
You want to elaborate on the harbingers deal? I'm honestly interested, I just can't seem to find room for harbingers... they could be our amazing post-wrath drop.
Play harbinger, grab triad.
We are way faster than GB, I beat them a lot.
I much prefer Slaughter Pact to Snakeform because you can still take full advantage of your three-drop without having to worry about leaving mana open for a cantrip.
Thanks to a_passer_bye for an incredible signature banner!
Trade with me!
well... we still can. profane command. with my build i have gone combo turn 2, but it usually resolves turn 3 or 4.
4x llanowar elves
4x essence warden
4x nettle sentinel
4x heritage druid
4x imperious perfect
4x regal force
2x profane command
2x mercy killing
4x manamorphose
4x hunting triad
4x elvish promenade
10x forest
thats right 14 lands... you can win with 2 or 3 so... there you go. if you have questions about it fire away.
You need a Pendelhaven.
GB Elves or GB Elf-ball?
And it's not about the mirror matchup, it's about the other matchups, and it's about the damnations and the firespouts and the wraths and the pyroclasms. GB is more resilient against alot of cards.
Harbinger for a hard to kill chameleon colossus post-wrath, prowess of the fair for a Pre-wrath drop, Namesless Inversion or eyeblight's ending to get rid of Overrun-killing Gaddock Teeg, Promenade against decks without mass removal, etc. I'm trying to remember what my sideboard looked like, it was pretty fun to play. Slowed the game down by 1 turn, but it was worth it in alot of situations. I think this was what it was:
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Elvish Hexhunter
1 Eyeblight's Ending
1 Nameless Inversion
1 Elvish Promenade
1 Riftsweeper
1 Prowess of the Fair
3 Primal Command
remember... Prowess of the Fair can be tapped to help you ball-out.
give us one reason it's not elf-ball
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time.
UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC.
WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck.
RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to
victory0-2 drop.???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
elves-fireball= elves aggro
my build taps all my elves i can combo with turn two and profane for like 22-34 loss of life... T2 gg no wrath worries.
I don't care if I get warned or an infraction, you're an idiot.
you run 4 gilt-leaf palace and expect to have double black. you also expect to draw an essential part of your combo without tutoring and you're also running only two profane command and you seem to consider that essential to your strategy.
I don't ever remember a deck using elves and fireball, but if you have a problem with the name go complain to the mods, don't make stupid posts.
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@Xtruder- didn't see you said elf-ball, I meant GB elves. I really want to figure out a way to fit eyeblights and prowess in. I don't really like the harbinger deal, seems too slow.
Flame infraction.
-Shin
well friend i have played the deck a couple dozen times, if you know how to juggle your mana, you can make this deck ramp so fast to drop regal, draw out at least 14 cards, keep juggling mana by droping one drops, untapping nettle and producing enough mana for a manamorphose adding BB to the pool along with about 22-38 green profane for the win...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGNrTyxrE1Q
the link above shows how my deck works (not me. we just had the same idea)