After getting thoroughly trashed by this card many a time I was wondering what can be done about it? I play B/G right now and I don't see any way to stop the frustration that is not having mana anymore.
In B/G, be it Elves or Rock, you'll be wanting to just plain avoid Mistbind. Thoughtseize will work wonders for this.
Aside from that, pack instant-speed removal, and wait for them to drop the Mistbind. There really is nothing else ANYONE can do, so you may want to just come to terms with the idea that a Fae godhand (double mistbind, for instance) is just going to beat you 9/10 times.
Be proactive. Fae hates dealing with decks that go out and answer threats before they hit the board, so consider Earwig Squad even. You should be playing Bitterblossom in GB, almost regardless of archetype. Throw in Chameleon Colossus and you may be able to prowl him out enough to make him an effective option.
Runed Halo is one answer. It forces them to tap down their own lands.
Not only are you asking him to run a WW costing card in a B/G deck,... you're suggesting he run a card which is easily bounced by Cryptic Command right before an alpha strike, rather than just suggesting the much more obvious (and much more splashable) Unmake.
This may be one of those "read the thread" moments I've heard so much about.
I'm new to magic so i'm sorry if this idea is retarded but if you play pithing needle and name mistbind will that stop the champion ability or at least the tapping ability or none because it's not activated abilities?
I'm new to magic so i'm sorry if this idea is retarded but if you play pithing needle and name mistbind will that stop the champion ability or at least the tapping ability or none because it's not activated abilities?
Champion is a triggered, not an activated ability. So, no.
It's a triggered when the champion ability revolves, but if it's not in play when the champion ability resolved, the land tapping wont happen. Snakeform alsop stops the tapping.
It is also triggered. You champion a fae, and as a result the tapping ability is triggered. So no, Pithing Needle isn't going to work in here. As most of the dudes said, you can make them discard it, or use terror/any other instant-removal to remove it while the champion ability is still on the stack.
EDIT: opps didnt saw you already answered that
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Thx to me on the Sig and Avvy =]
Playing these days:
T2:
Valakut :symr::symg:
EDH:
Sygg, River Cutthroat :symu::symb:
Crovax, Ascendent Hero
Karthus, Tyrant of Jund :symb::symr::symg:
Ixidor, Reality Sculptor
Teneb, the Harvester :symw::symb::symg:
If you played cloudthresher in response and killed all the faeries he can't champion for mistbind so there's no tapping ability and he has to sacrifice mistbind... Will that maybe work?
While a cloudthresher will usually not kill all faeries and cause them to sacrifice the clique, it IS a really good response to a clique, as they likely don't have the mana up to counter. Also, I hear 7/7 outclasses 4/4
If you played cloudthresher in response and killed all the faeries he can't champion for mistbind so there's no tapping ability and he has to sacrifice mistbind... Will that maybe work?
Here's an easy to kill Mistbind Clique and gain nice card advantage.
1. They play MC. You let it resolve, and they champion their Faerie upon resolution... let's say they champion a random Spellstutter Sprite.
2. Because they championed a Faerie, MC's ability triggers and goes on the stack.
3. Use something like Unmake or a Flame Javelin to kill MC.
4. The kill spell goes on the stack. It then resolves, and kills MC. Your lands get tapped out, but Mistbind Clique is dead and is no longer able to bring back the championed card back into play because MC is already dead from the kill spell. The championed card remains removed from the game permanently. You just 2-for-1ed your opponent.
If you have a manland in play (Mutavault, etc.), float all the mana and see if you draw something like Terror. If not, just activate the manland x times.
Here's an easy to kill Mistbind Clique and gain nice card advantage.
1. They play MC. You let it resolve, and they champion their Faerie upon resolution... let's say they champion a random Spellstutter Sprite.
2. Because they championed a Faerie, MC's ability triggers and goes on the stack.
3. Use something like Unmake or a Flame Javelin to kill MC.
4. The kill spell goes on the stack. It then resolves, and kills MC. Your lands get tapped out, but Mistbind Clique is dead and is no longer able to bring back the championed card back into play because MC is already dead from the kill spell. The championed card remains removed from the game permanently. You just 2-for-1ed your opponent.
They still get the championed creature back. It doesn't matter that the "tap all your lands" ability is still on the stack. Returning the creature is a triggered ability that triggers when the Mistbind Clique leaves play.
The only way to remove the creature MC champions is to let the opponent do it.
1. They play MC
2. Champion trigger goes on the stack
3. You kill MC
4. Opponent decides to champion anyway, removing the critter and Mana Shorting you.
That is the only way the championed critter will be removed for forever. Your opponent has to do it to himself.
They still get the championed creature back. It doesn't matter that the "tap all your lands" ability is still on the stack. Returning the creature is a triggered ability that triggers when the Mistbind Clique leaves play.
No, they don't get the championed creature back. As the active player (since they flash in MC on your upkeep), you choose the order in how things resolve. Mistbind Clique's ability has two separate clauses that trigger independently. You're the active player, so stack the triggers so that the championed creature is permanently RFGed.
It's the exact same thing with Oblivion Ring. Play Oblivion Ring, resolve it, and put the comes into play ability on the stack. Boomerang O-ring and resolve Boomerang. O-ring's leaves play will trigger on go on the stack. It resolves before the CIPT ability because of the order it was placed on the stack. After this happens, the CIPT ability resolves, and the permanent is RFGed permanently.
All this would not work if you were not the active player however.
The only way to remove the creature MC champions is to let the opponent do it.
1. They play MC
2. Champion trigger goes on the stack
3. You kill MC
4. Opponent decides to champion anyway, removing the critter and Mana Shorting you.
That is the only way the championed critter will be removed for forever. Your opponent has to do it to himself.
MC must be in play for the mana short ability to work. They can chose to still champion something...but the mana short will not happen.
Also, Surging, that situation would never happen. This is because if the Champion trigger resolves at any point while the Championing creature is still in play, then any removal of the creature that is doing the championing, will bring back the other creature (unless it's a token). If you kill a MC with the Champion ability on the stack, then they will just chose not to resolve the trigger....unless they don't know how to play the game.
MC must be in play for the mana short ability to work. They can chose to still champion something...but the mana short will not happen.
Also, Surging, that situation would never happen. This is because if the Champion trigger resolves at any point while the Championing creature is still in play, then any removal of the creature that is doing the championing, will bring back the other creature (unless it's a token). If you kill a MC with the Champion ability on the stack, then they will just chose not to resolve the trigger....unless they don't know how to play the game.
How would you "choose not to resolve the trigger"? Once the ability goes onto the stack, it will resolve unless someone plays something like Stifle.
How would you "choose not to resolve the trigger"? Once the ability goes onto the stack, it will resolve unless someone plays something like Stifle.
I guess I worded that wrong, so here:
502.72.Ruling.1 - If a creature with champion leaves play before its comes-into-play ability resolves, its leaves-play ability will do nothing. Then its comes-into-play ability will resolve. Its controller may remove a permanent of the appropriate quality he or she controls from the game. If the player does, that card won't come back. If the player doesn't, nothing happens (because the creature with champion isn't around to be sacrificed.) [Lorwyn FAQ 2007/09/25]
The only way for a championed creature to be permanently removed is if you kill the Mistbind Clique while it initial champion trigger is on the stack, the one that removes the creature. Clique comes in, champion goes on the stack, and you terror it. After Terror resolves the champion trigger resolves. Even though the Clique is gone they can still choose to remove something, and if they do it won't come back, but the land tapping ability won't happen because the Clique isn't in play when the faerie was championed.
The only way for a championed creature to be permanently removed is if you kill the Mistbind Clique while it initial champion trigger is on the stack, the one that removes the creature. Clique comes in, champion goes on the stack, and you terror it. After Terror resolves the champion trigger resolves. Even though the Clique is gone they can still choose to remove something, and if they do it won't come back, but the land tapping ability won't happen because the Clique isn't in play when the faerie was championed.
Whose turn it is makes no difference here.
Exactly. But why would anyone continue to champion something if their MC is getting murdered (unless BB is going to kill them next turn I guess).
There is, however, another way to remove a championed creature from the game completely.
502.72.Ruling.2 - If a creature with champion loses the champion ability (due to Humble, for example) and then leaves play, champion's leaves-play ability won't trigger. The removed card remains removed from the game. [Lorwyn FAQ 2007/09/25]
Aside from that, pack instant-speed removal, and wait for them to drop the Mistbind. There really is nothing else ANYONE can do, so you may want to just come to terms with the idea that a Fae godhand (double mistbind, for instance) is just going to beat you 9/10 times.
Be proactive. Fae hates dealing with decks that go out and answer threats before they hit the board, so consider Earwig Squad even. You should be playing Bitterblossom in GB, almost regardless of archetype. Throw in Chameleon Colossus and you may be able to prowl him out enough to make him an effective option.
Not only are you asking him to run a WW costing card in a B/G deck,... you're suggesting he run a card which is easily bounced by Cryptic Command right before an alpha strike, rather than just suggesting the much more obvious (and much more splashable) Unmake.
This may be one of those "read the thread" moments I've heard so much about.
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
Champion is a triggered, not an activated ability. So, no.
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Activated_ability
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Champion
And the tapping of lands ability? Is that an activated ability?
EDIT: opps didnt saw you already answered that
Thx to me on the Sig and Avvy =]
Playing these days:
T2:
Valakut :symr::symg:
EDH:
Sygg, River Cutthroat :symu::symb:
Crovax, Ascendent Hero
Karthus, Tyrant of Jund :symb::symr::symg:
Ixidor, Reality Sculptor
Teneb, the Harvester :symw::symb::symg:
No because bitterblossom can be championed.
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
1. They play MC. You let it resolve, and they champion their Faerie upon resolution... let's say they champion a random Spellstutter Sprite.
2. Because they championed a Faerie, MC's ability triggers and goes on the stack.
3. Use something like Unmake or a Flame Javelin to kill MC.
4. The kill spell goes on the stack. It then resolves, and kills MC. Your lands get tapped out, but Mistbind Clique is dead and is no longer able to bring back the championed card back into play because MC is already dead from the kill spell. The championed card remains removed from the game permanently. You just 2-for-1ed your opponent.
They still get the championed creature back. It doesn't matter that the "tap all your lands" ability is still on the stack. Returning the creature is a triggered ability that triggers when the Mistbind Clique leaves play.
1. They play MC
2. Champion trigger goes on the stack
3. You kill MC
4. Opponent decides to champion anyway, removing the critter and Mana Shorting you.
That is the only way the championed critter will be removed for forever. Your opponent has to do it to himself.
Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
No, they don't get the championed creature back. As the active player (since they flash in MC on your upkeep), you choose the order in how things resolve. Mistbind Clique's ability has two separate clauses that trigger independently. You're the active player, so stack the triggers so that the championed creature is permanently RFGed.
It's the exact same thing with Oblivion Ring. Play Oblivion Ring, resolve it, and put the comes into play ability on the stack. Boomerang O-ring and resolve Boomerang. O-ring's leaves play will trigger on go on the stack. It resolves before the CIPT ability because of the order it was placed on the stack. After this happens, the CIPT ability resolves, and the permanent is RFGed permanently.
All this would not work if you were not the active player however.
MC must be in play for the mana short ability to work. They can chose to still champion something...but the mana short will not happen.
Also, Surging, that situation would never happen. This is because if the Champion trigger resolves at any point while the Championing creature is still in play, then any removal of the creature that is doing the championing, will bring back the other creature (unless it's a token). If you kill a MC with the Champion ability on the stack, then they will just chose not to resolve the trigger....unless they don't know how to play the game.
How would you "choose not to resolve the trigger"? Once the ability goes onto the stack, it will resolve unless someone plays something like Stifle.
I guess I worded that wrong, so here:
Whose turn it is makes no difference here.
Exactly. But why would anyone continue to champion something if their MC is getting murdered (unless BB is going to kill them next turn I guess).
There is, however, another way to remove a championed creature from the game completely.
i think i'd just sacrifice my not-in-play mistbind clique
official rules advisor. it gets me there.