Yeah, seven extra cards is nice, but once you run out of cards in hand/removed by Plans, you don't have anything else. It's too risky IMO.
Actually, a friend of mine has been working on a decent Colfenor's Plans deck abusing Puca's Mischief. He can work around the card draw problem and many a game he's played a Colfenor's Plans drawing into another Colfenor's.
The thought of him possibly melding that tech with this TurboSmog idea sounds Really Interesting to me. I think I'll tell him about this thread. His deck has already owned my Reveillark deck that went 7-1 at Regionals. I don't know if it would be better or worse to go the TurboSmog route but it's worth looking into IMO. Still, his is a UB version and he leans on counterspelling, so this might not be viable.
I run no lifegain, because Underworld dreams should put you far enough ahead in the life department that it shouldn't matter.
Also, there is a lot of removal (8 + wrath), because a lot of decks won't overcommit against fogs and it's good to remove problems without wasting wraths.
My thoughts:
Terror - Instant kill (non-black)
Soul Reap - Non-green, and the chance to make them lose life
Unmake - Just amazing
Wrath - It's WRATH!
These are my thoughts. Any comments?
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Decks RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight (EDH) WUB Lady Evangela Turbofog (EDH) UB Vela the Night-Clad (EDH) UBR Creatureless Nekusaur (EDH)
The only problem with the Moth is that he's the only target against decks with removal. Better him then you against red decks, but still you're better off with the Burrenton Forge-Tender against Red Decks.
But he is awesome with fogs and Swarmyard, I agree.
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Quote from Kaevyn »
I mean, think about it - resource denial works. It always has. And what is your opponents biggest, most important resource? His turn.
Blacksummer...your list looks pretty similar to what we are testing right now.
However, I really don't think Kitchen Finks needs to be in the deck. His lifegain never seems like enough to make a difference and he usually just sits there on the board doing nothing..
he stalls and is good against Elves. having twice a blocker for 3 mana is good. dunno about you, but in an Elves heavy meta it seems to be real good. alternately, its also a good 3-drop against slower decks.
you've mentioned in an earlier post that you don't like Kitchen Finks, and that you'd run Unmake over it. i've stated before that i run both. they're pretty awesome together.
yeah, but if you're playing Martyr of Sand (like me), it'd be pretty hard to run it. alternately, we can ditch the W idea and make the deck a bit more B. this would allow for the use of other mentioned cards such as Darkness and Sudden Spoiling.
yeah, but if you're playing Martyr of Sand (like me), it'd be pretty hard to run it. alternately, we can ditch the W idea and make the deck a bit more B. this would allow for the use of other mentioned cards such as Darkness and Sudden Spoiling.
I really see no problem running both as you'll be drawing a ton of land.
You need a way to beat control. I suggest a recurrable threat. I'm also not a fan of underworld dreams, depends way too much on sticking a mine effect.
you might die from Spiteful Visions and Manabarbs before you are able to cast Purity. or you can wait until you have a ton of mana to cast Purity first... and then play Manabarbs. thats difficult to pull off.
Manabarbs before Purity? I don't think so. 3www in not a ton, and red allows you to play Smokebraider. This means t4 Purity.
Then you can exchange point removal for direct damage, so you can hurt your opp more.
still, idk. its a much simpler setup to just have your opponent draw. if i were to splash for R, it would just be for 1-2 copies of Sudden Impact.
My friend and I were toying with this deck the other day. Spiteful Visions and Underworld Dreams is pretty good at winning the game. Quick'n Toast is the biggest problem I ever have because they don't need to win with creatures. Underworld Dreams gets countered, and Oona basically bends you over if you don't deal with it in a timely manner. I've also had the misfortune of losing because I had a horrible draw and got hit with Careful Consideration when Spiteful Visions was out, with no life gain. Not really the biggest problem, but I figure you all would enjoy hearing of my shame.
And speaking of Elemental Incarnations...How about Dread? If you have enough life, he's essentially a Fog.
I'm really liking this deck but any deck running even 1x teferi crushes it.
i only run 4 swamps and 6 plains but I'm going to switch them for snow-covered and add 3x mouth of ronom and some sudden deaths in the sb.
anyone have any other suggestions?
I'm really liking this deck but any deck running even 1x teferi crushes it.
i only run 4 swamps and 6 plains but I'm going to switch them for snow-covered and add 3x mouth of ronom and some sudden deaths in the sb.
anyone have any other suggestions?
I think this is worth repeating again - the Goldenglow Moth is a lot of fun, but since it's your only creature it gets removed super fast by pretty much every deck.
The only worthwhile creatures I've found so far is Burrenton Forge Tender vs RDW, and Martyr of Sands in general. I don't like showing the opponent my fogs though
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Quote from Kaevyn »
I mean, think about it - resource denial works. It always has. And what is your opponents biggest, most important resource? His turn.
I included a couple of alternate win condition singletons to tutor for if the primary couldn't be achieved. For example, lock them down with Rule of Law and kill them with the Megrim discards. Or, build up counters quick with Hoofprints/Mines and kill with big tokens. I kept in the one Halo to be tutored for to stop Visions/Megrim damage.
In testing, it has done well so far, simply for the rogue factor. No one knows what to sideboard against it! The fun factor is extremely high too, making me want to build it.
I think this is worth repeating again - the Goldenglow Moth is a lot of fun, but since it's your only creature it gets removed super fast by pretty much every deck.
The only worthwhile creatures I've found so far is Burrenton Forge Tender vs RDW, and Martyr of Sands in general. I don't like showing the opponent my fogs though
yep, i agree whole-heartedly. i've commented earlier about Goldenglow Moth and how it doesn't really "ramp" up your life the way Martyr of Sands does, which is necessary.
Actually, a friend of mine has been working on a decent Colfenor's Plans deck abusing Puca's Mischief. He can work around the card draw problem and many a game he's played a Colfenor's Plans drawing into another Colfenor's.
The thought of him possibly melding that tech with this TurboSmog idea sounds Really Interesting to me. I think I'll tell him about this thread. His deck has already owned my Reveillark deck that went 7-1 at Regionals. I don't know if it would be better or worse to go the TurboSmog route but it's worth looking into IMO. Still, his is a UB version and he leans on counterspelling, so this might not be viable.
btw, Spiteful Visions really doesn't care who the owner is.
Here's my take:
4x Batwing Brute
4x Holy Day
4x Dawn Charm
3x Pollen Lullaby
Draw + Kill:
4x Howling Mine
4x Underworld Dreams
4x Spiteful Visions
4x Unmake
2x Terror
2x Soul Reap
3x Wrath of God
Land:
4x Fetid Heath
4x Caves of Koilos
6x Swamp
7x Plains
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
I run no lifegain, because Underworld dreams should put you far enough ahead in the life department that it shouldn't matter.
Also, there is a lot of removal (8 + wrath), because a lot of decks won't overcommit against fogs and it's good to remove problems without wasting wraths.
My thoughts:
Terror - Instant kill (non-black)
Soul Reap - Non-green, and the chance to make them lose life
Unmake - Just amazing
Wrath - It's WRATH!
These are my thoughts. Any comments?
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight (EDH)
WUB Lady Evangela Turbofog (EDH)
UB Vela the Night-Clad (EDH)
UBR Creatureless Nekusaur (EDH)
My Trade Thread
The latest thought was to lean a little more into targeted removal with Unmake.
However, we are planning to keep the Martyrs in for the lifegain and run 2 copies of Divinity of Pride...just for fun...
But he is awesome with fogs and Swarmyard, I agree.
EDIT:
this is what i've been running online lately. Tombstalker is a good alt-win. testing with it from SB has been great so far.
4 Martyr of Sands
1 Divinity of Pride
4 Spiteful Visions
4 Howling Mine
4 Batwing Brume
4 Dawn Charm
3 Wrath of God
3 Unmake
2 Holy Day
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Fetid Heath
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Mutavault
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Terror
3 Hallowed Burial
3 Tombstalker
2 Wispmare
However, I really don't think Kitchen Finks needs to be in the deck. His lifegain never seems like enough to make a difference and he usually just sits there on the board doing nothing..
you've mentioned in an earlier post that you don't like Kitchen Finks, and that you'd run Unmake over it. i've stated before that i run both. they're pretty awesome together.
I really see no problem running both as you'll be drawing a ton of land.
Also, Purity
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight (EDH)
WUB Lady Evangela Turbofog (EDH)
UB Vela the Night-Clad (EDH)
UBR Creatureless Nekusaur (EDH)
My Trade Thread
You need a way to beat control. I suggest a recurrable threat. I'm also not a fan of underworld dreams, depends way too much on sticking a mine effect.
I actually think this might play vs fae via lifegain (to beat out bitterblossom) and many other zany tricks (syphon soul)
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Purity
1 Chronosavant
4 Spiteful Visions
4 Howling Mine
4 Batwing Brume
4 Dawn Charm
4 Pollen Lullaby
4 Wrath of God
4 Syphon Life
12 Plains
4 Swamp
4 Fetid Heath
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Urza's Factory
Sideboard:
4 Pithing Needle
4 Wispmare
4 Thoughtsieze
3 Slaughter Pact
still, idk. its a much simpler setup to just have your opponent draw. if i were to splash for R, it would just be for 1-2 copies of Sudden Impact.
And speaking of Elemental Incarnations...How about Dread? If you have enough life, he's essentially a Fog.
i only run 4 swamps and 6 plains but I'm going to switch them for snow-covered and add 3x mouth of ronom and some sudden deaths in the sb.
anyone have any other suggestions?
4x Spiteful Visions
4x Howling Mine
4x Batwing Brume
4x Pollen Lullaby
4x Dawn Charm
4x Darkness
2x Holy Day
4x Goldenglow Moth
4x Runed Halo
2x Story Circle
1x Underworld Dreams
4x Fetid Heath
6x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Vivid Meadow
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Leechridden Swamp
1x Swarmyard
1x Springjack Pasture
3x Mouth of Ronom
2x Story Circle
3x Luminesce
2x Disenchant
2x Sudden Spoiling
3x Unmake
3x Sudden Death
i don't think 4x Runed Halo is necessary.
The only worthwhile creatures I've found so far is Burrenton Forge Tender vs RDW, and Martyr of Sands in general. I don't like showing the opponent my fogs though
4 Dawn Charm
4 Batwing Brume
4 Pollen Lullaby
4 Holy Day/Darkness
Win Condition
3 Underworld Dreams
3 Spiteful Visions
4 Howling Mine
1 Megrim
1 Hoofprints of the Stag
1 Runed Halo
3 Idyllic Tutor
1 Rule of Law
23 Lands
4 Luminesce
4 Stupor
4 Thoughtseize
3 Oblivion Ring
I included a couple of alternate win condition singletons to tutor for if the primary couldn't be achieved. For example, lock them down with Rule of Law and kill them with the Megrim discards. Or, build up counters quick with Hoofprints/Mines and kill with big tokens. I kept in the one Halo to be tutored for to stop Visions/Megrim damage.
In testing, it has done well so far, simply for the rogue factor. No one knows what to sideboard against it! The fun factor is extremely high too, making me want to build it.
yep, i agree whole-heartedly. i've commented earlier about Goldenglow Moth and how it doesn't really "ramp" up your life the way Martyr of Sands does, which is necessary.
R/r/B -Elelemental Midrange
B/U- Card advantage