for me, it's almost the perfect list (excep the manabase)
on only change would be - 1 ultimatum and +1 oona's grace
Finally sum1 playing Cancel in the board... I have been testing it out, im not sure about it. I really like negate and primal command. How has cancel been testing? What do u side out for it and in what MU? Oona grace is MVP in my sb vs mirror!
Finally sum1 playing Cancel in the board... I have been testing it out, im not sure about it. I really like negate and primal command. How has cancel been testing? What do u side out for it and in what MU? Oona grace is MVP in my sb vs mirror!
I really think your list demands some MD Condemn in face of the well made Kithkin//general aggro decks.
b)The first person to put this in a 5c list... everyone sees spoilers together kiddo.
2. Winning, losing =/= won, lost. If you can't win from behind using Cruel Ultimatum then what the hell CAN bring you back... ? Seriously... losing doesn't mean 7 cards in hand behind, mana disadvantage and 1 life...
3. You clearly haven't tested the mirror if you think everyone has multiple hard counters up at all times. Less Gadiel-theorising, more actual testing required. Seriously... spend an afternoon on MWS or something.
4. I hear Gerry T used Shriekmaw to great effect @ GP Denver... and didn't Bucher do ok w/them in his 5c list @ Birmingham... ? Oh yeh, that U/B Kelpie-Crime list found space as well... don't be idiotic when it comes to facts.
i love how the members of team revolution are allowed to flame without getting warned.
the points that jiaozy made are vaild.
-cruel ultimatum does little to the board, and doesnt at all spell 'auto-win'. even if you feel you 'must have it' why would you ever want more than 1? oona was widely considered the best win-con in pre-rotation t2 and even that wasnt usually at more than 1; think about that.
-shriekmaw, while okay in certain matchups, shouldnt necessarily be main-decked. i can understand the logic, though, so im no too far against it. but, to say that gp denver and birmingham = post rotation t2 is incorrect.
i love how the members of team revolution are allowed to flame without getting warned.
Yeah, we're good like that.
Er, I mean...
They weren't crossing a line. People like Jiaozy and myself require that people get down and dirty when arguing with us...otherwise we don't really respond well.
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They weren't crossing a line. People like Jiaozy and myself require that people get down and dirty when arguing with us...otherwise we don't really respond well.
wait, so if im ever arguing a card choice with you, youll respond better if im an ass towards you? good to know.
edit: i guess this means ill have to carefully choose which members of team revolution mtgs i forcfully debate, then? if im understanding this correctly, cause i sure dont wanna get unfairly warned.
wait, so if im ever arguing a card choice with you, youll respond better if im an ass towards you? good to know.
edit: i guess this means ill have to carefully choose which members of team revolution mtgs i forcfully debate, then? if im understanding this correctly, cause i sure dont wanna get unfairly warned.
I used the bold text in my last post because I was being a mod and allowing myself to make a point about the forum (since my post had nothing to do with QnT). Your response is spam, and so is this post. Thanks.
Anyway, what I mean is this: Jiaozy and I are definitely alike in many ways, one of them being that neither of us will ever have our opinions swayed unless we're told flat-out that we're wrong. It rarely ever changes anything (as the point of having a well-informed opinion is that you think it's right based on testing, etc), but it's just about the only way.
My point was, though, that neither of them crossed any sort of line, so no warning/infraction is needed. There were some allusions to one or both being ignorant that could probably have been omitted, but it's nothing serious enough for me to take action on.
Now stop spamming.
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Considering that no one really uses Cancel, I'd guess it's kind of a moot point.
In pre rotation Reveillark, I ran 3x faerie trickery against the mirror and pesky demigods. If you don't have fae in your meta then that card is 100% strictly superior to both cards mentioned.
Though if it's hard counters you're looking for, what about guttural response and negate/remove soul ? The one HUGE plus I've found in testing response in this deck is the opp will ask how much U you have untapped. If you dont have UUU available (or no U) they'll play right into a guttural response. savage.
Next time you post popular opinions, please word them in such a way that they're not infractable. Someone may be widely thought to be the dullest tool in the shed, but you can't publicly call him that, which as a mod I can neither confirm nor deny that I fervently believe he's a tool.
In pre rotation Reveillark, I ran 3x faerie trickery against the mirror and pesky demigods. If you don't have fae in your meta then that card is 100% strictly superior to both cards mentioned.
Though if it's hard counters you're looking for, what about guttural response and negate/remove soul ? The one HUGE plus I've found in testing response in this deck is the opp will ask how much U you have untapped. If you dont have UUU available (or no U) they'll play right into a guttural response. savage.
my meta consists mainly of fae and QnT, with some RDW and MGA(which is rare at best...)
In pre rotation Reveillark, I ran 3x faerie trickery against the mirror and pesky demigods. If you don't have fae in your meta then that card is 100% strictly superior to both cards mentioned.
Though if it's hard counters you're looking for, what about guttural response and negate/remove soul ? The one HUGE plus I've found in testing response in this deck is the opp will ask how much U you have untapped. If you dont have UUU available (or no U) they'll play right into a guttural response. savage.
hmm, Guttural Response is interesting. i used to run it in the board of my homebrew aggro deck, but havent tested it in this sb. plus, it nabs all those new charms... with a couple open spots still, sounds like it could be worth a shot, if only for a couple matchups.
lulz! now that is spam, shin, not the silliness i was doing. and why does my 'submit' button say 'vote now' when im in the edit screen recently? odd...
hmm, Guttural Response is interesting. i used to run it in the board of my homebrew aggro deck, but havent tested it in this sb. plus, it nabs all those new charms... with a couple open spots still, sounds like it could be worth a shot, if only for a couple matchups.
GR's been really good for me so far, nabbing charms, negates and cryptics. I tried running the shusher, but just too clunky. response seems good as 3x SB to bring in for control in place of sweeprs.
Next time you post popular opinions, please word them in such a way that they're not infractable. Someone may be widely thought to be the dullest tool in the shed, but you can't publicly call him that, which as a mod I can neither confirm nor deny that I fervently believe he's a tool.
It doesn't seem like there us any room for GR. As good as it is, Negate deals with a lot more stuff. The list is pretty tight. Minus the manabases, every build is going to be pretty much 60 cards that are the same (between sideboard and maindeck) with some obvious debates (Finks or Thrinax, 1 or 2 Cruel Ultimatum, 0-2 Broodmate Dragon) but there's not much room for innovation outside of "is Condemn maindeck or sideboard?" and "how many Broken Ambitions is optimal?"
It doesn't seem like there us any room for GR. As good as it is, Negate deals with a lot more stuff. The list is pretty tight. Minus the manabases, every build is going to be pretty much 60 cards that are the same (between sideboard and maindeck) with some obvious debates (Finks or Thrinax, 1 or 2 Cruel Ultimatum, 0-2 Broodmate Dragon) but there's not much room for innovation outside of "is Condemn maindeck or sideboard?" and "how many Broken Ambitions is optimal?"
I bolded the ridiculous part. It's only WEEK TWO of a new global meta game, saying there's no room for innovation when 5% of the new card set is seeing play and there's no "big" tourney yet for pros to show off new tech is rather ignorant. plus since the format is so varied an up in the air right now, if your particular store has only control decks you MD comdemns become zero. If your meta has a great majority of DDW/RDW then you may put ruined halo in the main, or start running luminesce or dragon's claw (long shot, but just an example).
there's still plenty of room for innovation - if there wasn't this thread and all others like it wouldn't see the kind of rapid fire posting of new ideas and successful tweaks to manabases to support testing new cards.
Next time you post popular opinions, please word them in such a way that they're not infractable. Someone may be widely thought to be the dullest tool in the shed, but you can't publicly call him that, which as a mod I can neither confirm nor deny that I fervently believe he's a tool.
Finally sum1 playing Cancel in the board... I have been testing it out, im not sure about it. I really like negate and primal command. How has cancel been testing? What do u side out for it and in what MU? Oona grace is MVP in my sb vs mirror!
cancel for all control-type deck
oona's grace is against control too, to draw quicklier my counters
broodmate dragon is amazing, it helped me so much tonigh *_*
3 firespout and wrathworks well
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Currently playing
:symw::symu::symb: Sorin, Lord of Innistrad Flare :symb::symu::symw:
:symb::symw::symr: Demon control :symr::symw::symb:
:symu::symw::symg: Pod :symg::symw::symu:
"If you were to turn into a snake tomorrow and begin devouring humans, and from the same mouth you started devouring humans, you cried out to me 'I love you,' would I still be able to say 'I love you' the same way I do today?" Ichimaru Gin
That's why I love the net so much, people thinking they're god and they're the ONLY ONE that test
Please continue posting because your posts are always the funniest.Woah, 1 randomic MD Shriekmaw in a different format is DEFINITELY a proof that it MUST be played
UB Kelpie Crime?
Yeah a defining deck of the format, for sure, not Faeries, WW or Q'nT :rolleyes:But why Cancel over Faerie Trickery?
Granted, you won't side in Trickery against Faeries but in the mirror it's a whole lot better to Trickery than it is to Cancel because of Mannequin, Cruel (I'll count this too, until people realize how useless it is) and all sort of Retrace shenanigans (Call the Skybreaker, Oona's Grace, whatever) along with the eventual Reveillark and Horde of Notions.
Which brings me to think...
Has anyone considered Horde as one of the finishers?
He can recur Thresher, Drifter and Fulminator Mages post-board...Main reason why I stopped looking at that board, the only one with some knowledge of the game at the time I stopped looking were Lesurgo and PolarBearGod, everyone else just kept on spamming their useless and barely FNM-worthy lists.
I don't know how much work it's been done by the team to improve in the meantime, tho...
But from the look of it, not much
do you mean, you dislike many on this forum?
i'll maybe reuse finks in MD, ishould just cut 4 cards
and use only 8-10 vivids, 12 is definitevely too much
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Currently playing
:symw::symu::symb: Sorin, Lord of Innistrad Flare :symb::symu::symw:
:symb::symw::symr: Demon control :symr::symw::symb:
:symu::symw::symg: Pod :symg::symw::symu:
"If you were to turn into a snake tomorrow and begin devouring humans, and from the same mouth you started devouring humans, you cried out to me 'I love you,' would I still be able to say 'I love you' the same way I do today?" Ichimaru Gin
i tried making a cruel kelpie deck, but i dont think a 3 color kelpie deck works
and with most decks playing tidings and bant charm, its really hard to get it working...
@kemono: if jioazy hates me.... for what reason im not too sure... im pretty sure we both dont like the same people
i know most dont like me because i dont argue in an angry matter, cause then i get ganged up and theres no point...
also, i've been using thinerax and finks and i gotta say, i keep liking finks better...
Why exactly do you prefer Finks, they both offer potential 2:1, they both survive removal, but one has higher PT at the cost of life and more blockers on subsequent turns. Seems like 4 life is outweighed quite easily by the benefits of Thinrax.
Why exactly do you prefer Finks, they both offer potential 2:1, they both survive removal, but one has higher PT at the cost of life and more blockers on subsequent turns. Seems like 4 life is outweighed quite easily by the benefits of Thinrax.
Well one doesn't survive all removal nor all blocks, and ones not useless after being hit with a stigma lasher. Thinrax seems to be the stronger by a long shot.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Well one doesn't survive all removal nor all blocks, and ones not useless after being hit with a stigma lasher. Thinrax seems to be the stronger by a long shot.
Ok, so you have me on technicality. My statement stands, ironically in alignment with your own: Thinrax > Finks? Also, I think any RDW list playing Stigma Lasher is probably suboptimal.
1) the casting coast is better, and im casting finks on turn 3, i dont even know how many more times than thrinax
2) the life gain... i mean idk, the 1/1 sapolings that create 3 blockers/ attackers in the mirror are really good, believe me i know
but finks being a 3/2 too the 1/1s and then a 2/1 attacker/blocker after just makes me feel all happy inside
Sounds like a mana base issue, with the vivid's and Pools, not to mention filters you can reliably cast Thrinax turn 3. Thinrax also offers 3 power on the defense, and generally it is played as a defensive card. Let us also keep in mind Kithkin is a relevant deck particularly in this unknown meta. Plenty of Kithkin threats have first strike, which decimates Finks. Outside of casting cost, which can be worked past theres just no reason to play the Finks
Finally sum1 playing Cancel in the board... I have been testing it out, im not sure about it. I really like negate and primal command. How has cancel been testing? What do u side out for it and in what MU? Oona grace is MVP in my sb vs mirror!
I really think your list demands some MD Condemn in face of the well made Kithkin//general aggro decks.
Thanks to [High~Light Studios]
i love how the members of team revolution are allowed to flame without getting warned.
the points that jiaozy made are vaild.
-cruel ultimatum does little to the board, and doesnt at all spell 'auto-win'. even if you feel you 'must have it' why would you ever want more than 1? oona was widely considered the best win-con in pre-rotation t2 and even that wasnt usually at more than 1; think about that.
-shriekmaw, while okay in certain matchups, shouldnt necessarily be main-decked. i can understand the logic, though, so im no too far against it. but, to say that gp denver and birmingham = post rotation t2 is incorrect.
Cruel Ultimatium IMHO should be a two of if you play a proper mana base for it.
Yeah, we're good like that.
Er, I mean...
They weren't crossing a line. People like Jiaozy and myself require that people get down and dirty when arguing with us...otherwise we don't really respond well.
Read my Constructed column on Star City, Thirst for Knowledge!
View my MTGS-era TFK articles here!
wait, so if im ever arguing a card choice with you, youll respond better if im an ass towards you? good to know.
edit: i guess this means ill have to carefully choose which members of
team revolutionmtgs i forcfully debate, then? if im understanding this correctly, cause i sure dont wanna get unfairly warned.I used the bold text in my last post because I was being a mod and allowing myself to make a point about the forum (since my post had nothing to do with QnT). Your response is spam, and so is this post. Thanks.
Anyway, what I mean is this: Jiaozy and I are definitely alike in many ways, one of them being that neither of us will ever have our opinions swayed unless we're told flat-out that we're wrong. It rarely ever changes anything (as the point of having a well-informed opinion is that you think it's right based on testing, etc), but it's just about the only way.
My point was, though, that neither of them crossed any sort of line, so no warning/infraction is needed. There were some allusions to one or both being ignorant that could probably have been omitted, but it's nothing serious enough for me to take action on.
Now stop spamming.
Read my Constructed column on Star City, Thirst for Knowledge!
View my MTGS-era TFK articles here!
ive been testing it, but i like negate better
Considering that no one really uses Cancel, I'd guess it's kind of a moot point.
Read my Constructed column on Star City, Thirst for Knowledge!
View my MTGS-era TFK articles here!
In pre rotation Reveillark, I ran 3x faerie trickery against the mirror and pesky demigods. If you don't have fae in your meta then that card is 100% strictly superior to both cards mentioned.
Though if it's hard counters you're looking for, what about guttural response and negate/remove soul ? The one HUGE plus I've found in testing response in this deck is the opp will ask how much U you have untapped. If you dont have UUU available (or no U) they'll play right into a guttural response. savage.
decks:
EDH - Riku, Xiahou, Konda, Azusa
modern - Past in Flames, Onmi-show
vintage - Drains, Oath
coup de grace:
my meta consists mainly of fae and QnT, with some RDW and MGA(which is rare at best...)
Guttural Response would be killer here, im gonna test in on MWS
hmm, Guttural Response is interesting. i used to run it in the board of my homebrew aggro deck, but havent tested it in this sb. plus, it nabs all those new charms... with a couple open spots still, sounds like it could be worth a shot, if only for a couple matchups.
edit:
lulz! now that is spam, shin, not the silliness i was doing. and why does my 'submit' button say 'vote now' when im in the edit screen recently? odd...
GR's been really good for me so far, nabbing charms, negates and cryptics. I tried running the shusher, but just too clunky. response seems good as 3x SB to bring in for control in place of sweeprs.
decks:
EDH - Riku, Xiahou, Konda, Azusa
modern - Past in Flames, Onmi-show
vintage - Drains, Oath
coup de grace:
-Yavimaya Ranger
I bolded the ridiculous part. It's only WEEK TWO of a new global meta game, saying there's no room for innovation when 5% of the new card set is seeing play and there's no "big" tourney yet for pros to show off new tech is rather ignorant. plus since the format is so varied an up in the air right now, if your particular store has only control decks you MD comdemns become zero. If your meta has a great majority of DDW/RDW then you may put ruined halo in the main, or start running luminesce or dragon's claw (long shot, but just an example).
there's still plenty of room for innovation - if there wasn't this thread and all others like it wouldn't see the kind of rapid fire posting of new ideas and successful tweaks to manabases to support testing new cards.
decks:
EDH - Riku, Xiahou, Konda, Azusa
modern - Past in Flames, Onmi-show
vintage - Drains, Oath
coup de grace:
cancel for all control-type deck
oona's grace is against control too, to draw quicklier my counters
broodmate dragon is amazing, it helped me so much tonigh *_*
3 firespout and wrathworks well
"If you were to turn into a snake tomorrow and begin devouring humans, and from the same mouth you started devouring humans, you cried out to me 'I love you,' would I still be able to say 'I love you' the same way I do today?" Ichimaru Gin
do you mean, you dislike many on this forum?
i'll maybe reuse finks in MD, ishould just cut 4 cards
and use only 8-10 vivids, 12 is definitevely too much
"If you were to turn into a snake tomorrow and begin devouring humans, and from the same mouth you started devouring humans, you cried out to me 'I love you,' would I still be able to say 'I love you' the same way I do today?" Ichimaru Gin
Why exactly do you prefer Finks, they both offer potential 2:1, they both survive removal, but one has higher PT at the cost of life and more blockers on subsequent turns. Seems like 4 life is outweighed quite easily by the benefits of Thinrax.
Thanks to [High~Light Studios]
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Ok, so you have me on technicality. My statement stands, ironically in alignment with your own: Thinrax > Finks? Also, I think any RDW list playing Stigma Lasher is probably suboptimal.
Thanks to [High~Light Studios]
With the obnoxious Nazi part out of the way
Generally Thrinax>Finks
However, depending on your color bases and other cards, Finks can be better simply for casting cost issues.
Personally, though, I'll keep playing Thrinax for as long as possible.
4x Mulldrifter
2x Cloudthresher
2x Broodmate Dragon
1x Oona, Queen of the Fae
4x Cryptic Command
4x Esper Charm
3x Bant Charm
3x Condemn
3x Firespout
2x Wrath of God
2x Makeshift Mannequin
1x Cruel Ultimatum
3x Vivid Meadow
2x Vivid Grove
1x Vivid Marsh
4x Reflecting Pool
3x Mystic Gate
3x Yavimaya Coast
2x Flooded Grove
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Cascade Bluff
1x Adarkar Wastes
Haven't tested the Thrinax yet. Probably should get around to doing that.
Sounds like a mana base issue, with the vivid's and Pools, not to mention filters you can reliably cast Thrinax turn 3. Thinrax also offers 3 power on the defense, and generally it is played as a defensive card. Let us also keep in mind Kithkin is a relevant deck particularly in this unknown meta. Plenty of Kithkin threats have first strike, which decimates Finks. Outside of casting cost, which can be worked past theres just no reason to play the Finks
Thanks to [High~Light Studios]