Quick Info
Just getting back into magic, m19 specifically. This deck is focused on trying out what I remember from old Jund when I was in highschool. The goal of this deck is to ramp to big fliers while still having midgame board presence through burn and some sacrifice mechanics.
Trying to use only m19 and forward except for the Angrath that I had. However, with what I am learning it will be best to expand that board and use things from older sets. I'm here to learn.
Here is the list I'm thinking of running now, it doesn't require me to go searching for many cards. I like the verix bladewing for being a flexible play if the game is grindy but I don't think the kicker will really ever come up. So, I'm thinking of trying it at one. I decided to include the other two Jund dragons that were pointed out, upped the forest count by 1 because the elf play on turn one seems to be really good if followed by a dragon's hoard.
I'm also thinking of trying to tech in the Sigiled Sword because giving a dragon vigilance seems really good and it synergizes well with Glorybringer because I can exert for free.
Best case scenario would be to open up with llanowar elves on turn 1, follow it up by a dragon's hoard on turn 2. Use spells to clear any threats turn three or drop Sarkhan to accelerate to the dragon threats.
1) Are you worried about rotation? Many new and returning players think/feel like they have to buy into the newest set only because they either A) Don't want to spend the money buying pricey/expensive cards from other sets before rotation, or B) Don't know the rotation schedule. If you're building a deck based on budget reasons, then the Standard Budget Forum would be the right place to post this decklist and get feedback. HOWEVER, I do see that you're running Nicol Bolas, the Ravager, a very expensive card in the format right now. This leads me to believe you're worried about rotation. Don't. There are other useful/powerful cards you can use from other sets that WILL make your deck a lot better/more efficient. By limiting your card pool, your limiting your resources and deck from being truly good/great! For example:
2) The deck is kinda all over the place. Your description of Jund is and what it does is accurate. However, your deck doesn't reflect this! Again, you need to delve into other sets to find the best cards/power.
There is a lot of double mana requirements here. So Mana base is pretty important I would think about this first before putting the creatures in there. If this is suppose to emphasize Jund, then red should be the emphasis, then black, then green.
I put this together based off what I gleaned in the other thread.
This may need some tweaking for sideboard but I was able to get it to most of the essential stuff. It should be able to work with or without llanowar elves as the T1 play. It also might need an extra card for the mainboard.
There are 2 jund dragons that I have left directly out of the deck but you and can try to add these in and try to build around them.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
Ok so here is the list I'm thinking of running now, it doesn't require me to go searching for many cards. I like the verix bladewing for being a flexible play if the game is grindy but I don't think the kicker will really ever come up. So, I'm thinking of trying it at one. I decided to include the other two Jund dragons that you pointed out, upped the forest count but 1 because the elf play on turn one seems to be really good if followed by a dragon's hoard.
I'm also thinking of trying to tech in the Sigiled Sword because giving a dragon vigilance seems really good and it synergizes well with Glorybringer because I can exert for free.
As far as which dragons work. You just test those out to get a feel for which ones work and how many 1ofs,2ofs,3ofs,4ofs should be in the deck. Because of high cmc count. I imagine some cards might not even show up if they are 1 of.
Glorybringer will rotate out so not sure what to say.
Again, it's just gonna take some testing to see what works. Llanowar Elves could eat removal so you want to be somewhat prepared for that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
Newest take on the list since the Ravnica stuff came out. Wish this was a deck that could play vraska but that isn't happening. I'm wondering if the Liliana in the sideboard will be helpful in matchups with a lot of removal, while I have one big threat that is hard to kill I do need some of my big guys to stick in order to win. The detection tower in the sideboard should also help if my opponent has hexproof so I can get maximum value from Sarkhan's unsealing but I don't know how often I'll run into that.
Guys you can't play llanowar elves with such low green sources. I get that a turn 3 demanding dragon is great but llanowar isn't a splash card.
Just take Shivan fire for turn 1 and strikes/cast downs for turn 2 then ramp with disciple or hoard T3
5 drops are still good on turn 4
So it is better to play cast down rather than the Assassin Trophy? Trophy hits a lot more and I already opened them through drafts, so I thought they'd be more useful here.
If I still wanted to play the elves for turn 1, what suggestion would you have to make my mana base stronger for that?
Assassin's trophy is still fine because you'll rarely need it turns 1-3
And it shouldn't (imo) be put in the deck just for creature removal. I don't think I'd play 4 copies because it would put me in the awkward position where ,for example, I need to kill a steel leaf or something and giving them a 5th land lets them drop a gigantosaur.
I will always run multiple removal spells over a play set of one.
If you really want to play llanowar you just need more benefits for it. Like if you add more green you'll only make it harder to hit your RR cards
Rootbound crags are a start though
So, with those suggestions then these would be the differences in lists I'm looking at. One has improved mana base for elves because I think that a five drop turn 3 is just infinitely better than a five drop on turn four if it is possible. Because of the simple fact that the five drop is still going to drop on turn four or five sometimes even if you have the ability/plan for it to come on turn three... so planning to have it later leaves more room for error to fall even further behind.
The other list that takes elves out completely for more kill just seems like I'm asking to get punched in the face. Sure, I'll burn/kill a few things off but it feels vulnerable when my only permanents finally come on turn 3, being a 2/2 and an artifact.
The mana base is also an issue here. I didn't think about this too heavily last time because of rotation but now after reviewing it. I'm sure I wouldn't want llanowar elves in the deck because there are no RG and RB shocklands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
Don't think there is enough duals to get llanowar in there and have Sarkhan, Fireblood come out reliably on t3 since that needs like 19 sources if I'm right. Removal might be a little to much so that will need some further tweaking.
There is also Find\\Finality which will let you get back cards from graveyard
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
-Stay Frosty
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Just getting back into magic, m19 specifically. This deck is focused on trying out what I remember from old Jund when I was in highschool. The goal of this deck is to ramp to big fliers while still having midgame board presence through burn and some sacrifice mechanics.
Trying to use only m19 and forward except for the Angrath that I had. However, with what I am learning it will be best to expand that board and use things from older sets. I'm here to learn.
Here is the list I'm thinking of running now, it doesn't require me to go searching for many cards. I like the verix bladewing for being a flexible play if the game is grindy but I don't think the kicker will really ever come up. So, I'm thinking of trying it at one. I decided to include the other two Jund dragons that were pointed out, upped the forest count by 1 because the elf play on turn one seems to be really good if followed by a dragon's hoard.
I'm also thinking of trying to tech in the Sigiled Sword because giving a dragon vigilance seems really good and it synergizes well with Glorybringer because I can exert for free.
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Draconic Disciple
2 Glorybringer
1 Verix Bladewing
1 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
2 Demanding Dragon
2 Lathliss, Dragon Queen
1 Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire
1 Darigaaz Reincarnated
Land
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Rootbound Crag
3 Forest
8 Mountain
6 Swamp
1 Sigiled Sword of Valeron
3 Dragon's Hoard
Instant
3 Cast Down
4 Lightning Strike
3 Spit Flame
Sorcery
3 Duress
Planeswalker
1 Angrath, the Flame-Chained
2 Sarkhan, Fireblood
2 Sarkhan's Unsealing
2 Smelt
2 Naturalize
2 Mind Rot
Best case scenario would be to open up with llanowar elves on turn 1, follow it up by a dragon's hoard on turn 2. Use spells to clear any threats turn three or drop Sarkhan to accelerate to the dragon threats.
1) Are you worried about rotation? Many new and returning players think/feel like they have to buy into the newest set only because they either A) Don't want to spend the money buying pricey/expensive cards from other sets before rotation, or B) Don't know the rotation schedule. If you're building a deck based on budget reasons, then the Standard Budget Forum would be the right place to post this decklist and get feedback. HOWEVER, I do see that you're running Nicol Bolas, the Ravager, a very expensive card in the format right now. This leads me to believe you're worried about rotation. Don't. There are other useful/powerful cards you can use from other sets that WILL make your deck a lot better/more efficient. By limiting your card pool, your limiting your resources and deck from being truly good/great! For example:
Llanowar Elves > Druid of the Cowl
Dragonskull Summit > Cinder Barrens
Glorybringer > Demanding Dragon
2) The deck is kinda all over the place. Your description of Jund is and what it does is accurate. However, your deck doesn't reflect this! Again, you need to delve into other sets to find the best cards/power.
3) There are other threads devoted to dragons you may want to take a look at: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/795653-dragons-m19-thoughts-advice
2 Dragon Egg
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Draconic Disciple
2 Brawl-Bash Ogre
2 Glorybringer
2 Volcanic Dragon
2 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
2 Demon of Catastrophes
1 Lathliss, Dragon Queen
Land
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Foul Orchard
7 Forest
6 Mountain
6 Swamp
4 Dragon's Hoard
Instant
4 Lightning Strike
Sorcery
2 Act of Treason
2 Blood Divination
1 Banefire
2 Duress
Planeswalker
1 Angrath, the Flame-Chained
2 Sarkhan, Fireblood
2 Poison-Tip Archer
3 Naturalize
2 Mind Rot
So something more along these lines?
There is a lot of double mana requirements here. So Mana base is pretty important I would think about this first before putting the creatures in there. If this is suppose to emphasize Jund, then red should be the emphasis, then black, then green.
I put this together based off what I gleaned in the other thread.
8 Mountain
7 Swamp
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Rootbound Crag
2 Forest
Creatures
2 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Verix Bladewing
3 Draconic Disciple
2 Lathliss, Dragon Queen
4 Demanding Dragon
3 Spit Flame
4 Lightning Strike
3 Cast Down
3 Duress
1 Angrath, the Flame-Chained
3 Sarkhan, Fireblood
Artifacts
3 Dragon's Hoard
3 Mind Rot
2 Smelt
2 Sarkhan's Unsealing
This may need some tweaking for sideboard but I was able to get it to most of the essential stuff. It should be able to work with or without llanowar elves as the T1 play. It also might need an extra card for the mainboard.
There are 2 jund dragons that I have left directly out of the deck but you and can try to add these in and try to build around them.
Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire and Darigaaz Reincarnated
Of the two Darigaaz is way more useful but the 7 mana was a bit tough to add.
-Stay Frosty
I'm also thinking of trying to tech in the Sigiled Sword because giving a dragon vigilance seems really good and it synergizes well with Glorybringer because I can exert for free.
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Draconic Disciple
2 Glorybringer
1 Verix Bladewing
1 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
2 Demanding Dragon
2 Lathliss, Dragon Queen
1 Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire
1 Darigaaz Reincarnated
Land
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Rootbound Crag
3 Forest
8 Mountain
6 Swamp
1 Sigiled Sword of Valeron
3 Dragon's Hoard
Instant
3 Cast Down
4 Lightning Strike
3 Spit Flame
Sorcery
3 Duress
Planeswalker
1 Angrath, the Flame-Chained
2 Sarkhan, Fireblood
2 Sarkhan's Unsealing
2 Smelt
2 Naturalize
2 Mind Rot
You may want to add Vraska's Contempt to the sideboard and remove Smelt. Murder Can probably go in there as well.
Unclaimed Territory can probably be added to the land count.
As far as which dragons work. You just test those out to get a feel for which ones work and how many 1ofs,2ofs,3ofs,4ofs should be in the deck. Because of high cmc count. I imagine some cards might not even show up if they are 1 of.
Glorybringer will rotate out so not sure what to say.
Again, it's just gonna take some testing to see what works. Llanowar Elves could eat removal so you want to be somewhat prepared for that.
-Stay Frosty
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Draconic Disciple
2 Verix Bladewing
1 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
4 Demanding Dragon
2 Lathliss, Dragon Queen
2 Darigaaz Reincarnated
Enchantment
2 Sarkhan's Unsealing
Land
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Unclaimed Territory
5 Forest
6 Mountain
4 Swamp
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Dragon's Hoard
Instant
4 Lightning Strike
2 Spit Flame
3 Assassin's Trophy
Planeswalker
2 Angrath, the Flame-Chained
2 Sarkhan, Fireblood
3 Kraul Harpooner
2 Detection Tower
3 Abnormal Endurance
3 Naturalize
2 Duress
2 Liliana, the Necromancer
Just take Shivan fire for turn 1 and strikes/cast downs for turn 2 then ramp with disciple or hoard T3
5 drops are still good on turn 4
If I still wanted to play the elves for turn 1, what suggestion would you have to make my mana base stronger for that?
And it shouldn't (imo) be put in the deck just for creature removal. I don't think I'd play 4 copies because it would put me in the awkward position where ,for example, I need to kill a steel leaf or something and giving them a 5th land lets them drop a gigantosaur.
I will always run multiple removal spells over a play set of one.
If you really want to play llanowar you just need more benefits for it. Like if you add more green you'll only make it harder to hit your RR cards
Rootbound crags are a start though
So, with those suggestions then these would be the differences in lists I'm looking at. One has improved mana base for elves because I think that a five drop turn 3 is just infinitely better than a five drop on turn four if it is possible. Because of the simple fact that the five drop is still going to drop on turn four or five sometimes even if you have the ability/plan for it to come on turn three... so planning to have it later leaves more room for error to fall even further behind.
The other list that takes elves out completely for more kill just seems like I'm asking to get punched in the face. Sure, I'll burn/kill a few things off but it feels vulnerable when my only permanents finally come on turn 3, being a 2/2 and an artifact.
Also, no one was thinking about Demanding dragon on Turn3.
The mana base is also an issue here. I didn't think about this too heavily last time because of rotation but now after reviewing it. I'm sure I wouldn't want llanowar elves in the deck because there are no RG and RB shocklands.
-Stay Frosty
6 Mountain
3 Swamp
2 Cinder Barrens
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Rootbound Crag
1 Forest
Creatures
1 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Draconic Disciple
2 Lathliss, Dragon Queen
2 Demanding Dragon
2 Darigaaz Reincarnated
3 Spit Flame
3 Assassin's Trophy
3 Cast Down
3 lava coil
1 Risk Factor
2 Angrath, the Flame-Chained
3 Sarkhan, Fireblood
3 Dragon's Hoard
3 Naturalize
2 Plaguecrafter
2 Sarkhan's Unsealing
3 Duress
2 The eldest reborn
Don't think there is enough duals to get llanowar in there and have Sarkhan, Fireblood come out reliably on t3 since that needs like 19 sources if I'm right. Removal might be a little to much so that will need some further tweaking.
There is also Find\\Finality which will let you get back cards from graveyard
probably going to take some experimentation to see which removal works best from:
Fight with Fire
Shivan Fire
Lava Coil
Cast Down
Shock
Lightning Strike
-Stay Frosty