Like I say, it works pretty well -- the all-evasive team, including several blue dudes who don't die to Cloudthresher -- can be a real pain. But it would need some deal of help to get up to tier 1.
I like it. It's cheap, easy, and it looks so much fun...I would only take shock out for Flame Javelin. But even then its still fun the way it is....Ever thought of adding a Molten Disaster or Disentergrate?
Oh and for tier 1 problems the new remand and Cryptic Command can solve that problem nicely.
i rather now build a deck that gets totally destroyed when all the cards cycle out.
some people suggested tempo counter/brun. Running a few plainswalkers and stuff like Savor the Moment, Nevermaker, Mulldrifter, Pestermite, command etc
might look into that a little more
The problem with U/R is that most of the blue cards are mono-blue, u/w, u/b, and u/g are good with only the mono and u/b cards being teh best. However I would suggest another Sea Stompy deck...Actually anyone thinking of making a sea stompy deck these days? Probably wouldnt' be the best out there but at the same time remember we have plenty of cards for it: Intet, Spectral Force, Mystic Snake, Boggart Ram-Gang...anyone here thinking of a good deck list?
Anyways U/R has to wait and see what Shards of Alara brings for them...Eve for red wasn't really much of a blessing, and blue just got decent stuff. However someone mentioned that a random U/R build would be interesting and I agree with that.
U/R is possible. I saw someone post an interesting Idea with Crackleburr and Surge Spanner (I know they don't work together the deck has both in it). For standard my hope is to make a URW Magnivoresque deck. using the 6cc u/R beast and some CiP cards like redcap and Avalance riders, with the blink cards and Mistmeadow Witch.
Also I hear rumors of a URg Warp World Deck... dunno..
UR will be viable it may just take some time.
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U/R is possible. I saw someone post an interesting Idea with Crackleburr and Surge Spanner (I know they don't work together the deck has both in it). For standard my hope is to make a URW Magnivoresque deck. using the 6cc u/R beast and some CiP cards like redcap and Avalance riders, with the blink cards and Mistmeadow Witch.
Also I hear rumors of a URg Warp World Deck... dunno..
UR will be viable it may just take some time.
Thoughts, suggestions? Just a quick list that took me about 10 minutes but I think it could be solid. Late game Nucklavee into Incendiary Command/Threaten and Cryptic/Negation back up could be pretty solid. Then if needed counter a spell and bounce Nucklavee, returning Cryptic and another burn spell, every turn.
take out the threaten for Disentergrate for huge spell. Plus disentergrate counters Lark decks, because Lark's effect becomes null if it doesn't hit the yard. I've tried it before and it make me laugh when people figure it out.
I run a U/R deck that uses a few Mindwrack Lieges and Greater Gargadons as win conditions. It's been doing pretty well on MWS. It basically features a list similar to raijinnfury's, but with less red burn spells and a Chandra+Jace win the game randomly engine. (I'm thinking about cutting Chandra because it lacks so much synergy with Mindwrack and basically everything else in the deck, but she's been working really well as removal, so IDK.)
Has anyone considered using Mindwrack Liege and dropping Bogardan Hellkites on the cheap? :symur::symur::symur::symur: for an **uncounterable** 6/6 flyer that domes an opponent for 5, or blows away an army of critters seems pretty good.
Has anyone considered using Mindwrack Liege and dropping Bogardan Hellkites on the cheap? :symur::symur::symur::symur: for an **uncounterable** 6/6 flyer that domes an opponent for 5, or blows away an army of critters seems pretty good.
I tried it, but gargadon just seems to work better. When I get gargadon without liege, I can usually suspend him and go on controlling the game. With Hellkite, the mana investment is usually too much. Instead of hoping for 4 and having to deal with 8, I can hope for 4 and deal with 1 or 10.
The removal factor of Hellkite almost never helped me; either I got rid of a liege blocker or a flyer, or hit him in the face. Real threats like Doran and Colossus need to be handled earlier, and the only real threat to Hellkite, Cloudthresher, is out of range.
What are you talking about? Reveillark triggers when it leaves play. It doesn't matter if it goes to your graveyard, your hand, your library, or is removed from the game. Disintegrate may remove it from the game, but it still causes the ability to trigger when it leaves play.
Compare to Festering Goblin, which specifically triggers when it is put into a graveyard from play. Disintegrate stops Festering Goblin shenanigans.
ah sorry. But it does stop more than festering goblin shenanigans.
Also I hear rumors of a URg Warp World Deck... dunno..
UR will be viable it may just take some time.
Warp World will become viable the same time storm does.
@Sheldama: Wake Thrasher probably isn't a good win condition outside of dedicated merfolk aggro (and as a merfolk player, I would never play it). It's really antisynergistic with counterspelling and is usually a burn spell for 4-5 at best.
Try Nucklavee or Dominus.
I posted a decent U/R deck in the Decks for Critique section (R/U Hot Thoughts). It relies on burn and Counterbalance with Idle Thoughts as backup and Torchling as a finisher. Haven't taken it to a physical tourney yet but it looks very promising against Faeries and RDW. Not as great against ramp but it's decent; you can't win 'em all.
Negate could also be Remove Soul, depending on what you figure is going to be more painful to you. Usual kill involves Spiteful Visions. Yes, they get to draw first... but they're taking damage first, and if you counter anything useful, it's going to be over quick. Put out two Spiteful Visions, and they're taking *6* damage per turn (3 cards, 2 damage each). You also have 8 "Chars" in Psionic Blast and Flame Javelin. Sulferous Blast takes care of weenies to begin with, Incendiary Command plays clean-up (as well as dealing them 4 or eating a man-land *or* cycling people's hands and dealing bunches of damage with Spiteful Visions). Ancestral Visions reloads your hand, though can also be used as a very bad Lightning Bolt with a Spiteful Visions in play... but if it kills them, that's the point!
Warp World will become viable the same time storm does.
@Sheldama: Wake Thrasher probably isn't a good win condition outside of dedicated merfolk aggro (and as a merfolk player, I would never play it). It's really antisynergistic with counterspelling and is usually a burn spell for 4-5 at best.
Try Nucklavee or Dominus.
Use Painter's Servant with Chaotic Backlash, its very rogue, but just surround them with counter magic to force it through and some sort of drawing engine with some burn to keep yourself alive.
Use Painter's Servant with Chaotic Backlash, its very rogue, but just surround them with counter magic to force it through and some sort of drawing engine with some burn to keep yourself alive.
It does double the number of white or blue permanents an opponent controls to his/her head. Since Painter's Servant makes lands colored....thats pretty sweet.
It does double the number of white or blue permanents an opponent controls to his/her head. Since Painter's Servant makes lands colored....thats pretty sweet.
....that actually sounds either really decent or really crappy.
Well, provided you can force it through - it normally kills aggro decks in one hit, control are trickier with counter magic, but thats why id run the much maligned twin cast and delay with it with a guttural response sideboard. If you use Lotus Blooms you can usually outpay an opponent for counterspells. In addition - its so rogue it almost always takes the first matchup against fairies as they don't counter painters servant. Some fae players are overly cautious though, and force you to pull a rabbit out of the hat. Overall I really like it against aggro, especially kithkin and merfolk, where it works even without painter's pretty well if you can pull a twincast at an opportune time.
Well, provided you can force it through - it normally kills aggro decks in one hit, control are trickier with counter magic, but thats why id run the much maligned twin cast and delay with it with a guttural response sideboard. If you use Lotus Blooms you can usually outpay an opponent for counterspells. In addition - its so rogue it almost always takes the first matchup against fairies as they don't counter painters servant. Some fae players are overly cautious though, and force you to pull a rabbit out of the hat. Overall I really like it against aggro, especially kithkin and merfolk, where it works even without painter's pretty well if you can pull a twincast at an opportune time.
Look the real fact is when you play the spell with twin cast and all....it really comes down to how many permaments your opponent has in play. And yeah that rogue thing of the first matchup? Yeah the second and third ones basically make you flop. A one trick pony thats good once and then thats it.
well, if you consider that most tier one decks are designed not to miss a land drop you potentially have 10-14 damage not counting your opponents other permanents when you get it off. I think the match up against counter magic just gets stronger in the second game as you board in guttural. I'm not sure, i'm really interested in playtesting it. Commandeer's synergy and ability to steal bitterblossom is also very nice. I have to admit, I haven't thought the deck out too much past the fae matchup. I think its worst matchup would have to be RDW.
well, if you consider that most tier one decks are designed not to miss a land drop you potentially have 10-14 damage not counting your opponents other permanents when you get it off. I think the match up against counter magic just gets stronger in the second game as you board in guttural. I'm not sure, i'm really interested in playtesting it. Commandeer's synergy and ability to steal bitterblossom is also very nice. I have to admit, I haven't thought the deck out too much past the fae matchup. I think its worst matchup would have to be RDW.
*sigh* All fae woudl have to do is just Thoughtseize the second match up for the Painters servant or Chaotic backlash first turn, Also to make things harder they'd just use Vendilion Clique and Mistbind Clique to make you have to wait longer. I'm sorry but faeries would have faster tempo on turn four.
By the way I have yet to see a deck play gutteral response in both rock, RDW, and anything really playing red or green. Hell even "Little Kid" doesn't play it.
Yes, thoughtsieze I hadn't given much thought. I haven't actually seen many of the top faerie decks running it though. That seems more of an elf designation. I suppose if one had four commandeer SBed however in a more blue build it would give you the equal opportunity to stop a thoughtseize and turn it back for a net loss of only one card. I agree that im stretching it though lol. Maybe also a build that would use black and blue and splash for red so that you could use mannequin should that happen.
Yes, thoughtsieze I hadn't given much thought. I haven't actually seen many of the top faerie decks running it though. That seems more of an elf designation. I suppose if one had four commandeer SBed however in a more blue build it would give you the equal opportunity to stop a thoughtseize and turn it back for a net loss of only one card. I agree that im stretching it though lol. Maybe also a build that would use black and blue and splash for red so that you could use mannequin should that happen.
Fairies dont' play it main until they're playing mirror. Thats why you dont' see it in maindeck builds. No faerie player would be stupid enough not to have it in the board. Elves play it main because its easier for them to.
I like it. It's cheap, easy, and it looks so much fun...I would only take shock out for Flame Javelin. But even then its still fun the way it is....Ever thought of adding a Molten Disaster or Disentergrate?
Oh and for tier 1 problems the new remand and Cryptic Command can solve that problem nicely.
The problem with U/R is that most of the blue cards are mono-blue, u/w, u/b, and u/g are good with only the mono and u/b cards being teh best. However I would suggest another Sea Stompy deck...Actually anyone thinking of making a sea stompy deck these days? Probably wouldnt' be the best out there but at the same time remember we have plenty of cards for it: Intet, Spectral Force, Mystic Snake, Boggart Ram-Gang...anyone here thinking of a good deck list?
Anyways U/R has to wait and see what Shards of Alara brings for them...Eve for red wasn't really much of a blessing, and blue just got decent stuff. However someone mentioned that a random U/R build would be interesting and I agree with that.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
Also I hear rumors of a URg Warp World Deck... dunno..
UR will be viable it may just take some time.
"One Day Reason and Sanity will rule the World....."
"Unfortunately that day will be the day after all us Homo Sapiens explode in fiery balls of death from a Thermonuclear Hell..."
I need a new avvie and sig banner...
where do you here these rumors?
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
2 Dominus of Fealty
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
4 Nucklavee
Burn/Creature Control:
3 Threaten
4 Rift Bolt
4 Flame Javelin
2 Incendiary Command
2 Sulfurous Blast
4 Rune Snag
4 Cryptic Command
2 Dream Fracture
1 Pact of Negation
4 Careful Consideration/Think Twice
Land:
4 Shivan Reef
4 Cascade Bluffs
7 Islands
7 Mountains
2 Faerie Conclave
Thoughts, suggestions? Just a quick list that took me about 10 minutes but I think it could be solid. Late game Nucklavee into Incendiary Command/Threaten and Cryptic/Negation back up could be pretty solid. Then if needed counter a spell and bounce Nucklavee, returning Cryptic and another burn spell, every turn.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
I tried it, but gargadon just seems to work better. When I get gargadon without liege, I can usually suspend him and go on controlling the game. With Hellkite, the mana investment is usually too much. Instead of hoping for 4 and having to deal with 8, I can hope for 4 and deal with 1 or 10.
The removal factor of Hellkite almost never helped me; either I got rid of a liege blocker or a flyer, or hit him in the face. Real threats like Doran and Colossus need to be handled earlier, and the only real threat to Hellkite, Cloudthresher, is out of range.
2 Teferi
3 Wake Thrasher
4 Sower of temptation
4 Ancestral Visions
4 Lash out
4 Flame Javelin
4 Rune Snag
4 Cryptic Command
4 Pyroclasm
2 Incendiary Command
2 Puncture Blast
4 Filter
4 Pain
2 Reflecting Pool
4 Mutavault
5 Island
4 Mountain
ah sorry. But it does stop more than festering goblin shenanigans.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
Warp World will become viable the same time storm does.
@Sheldama: Wake Thrasher probably isn't a good win condition outside of dedicated merfolk aggro (and as a merfolk player, I would never play it). It's really antisynergistic with counterspelling and is usually a burn spell for 4-5 at best.
Try Nucklavee or Dominus.
4 Shivan Reef
4 Cascade Bluffs
4 Vivid Craig
4 Reflecting Pool
4 Island
4 Mountain
4 Negate
4 Ancestral Visions
4 Psionic Blast
4 Prismatic Lens
4 Spiteful Visions
4 Incendiary Command
4 Sulfurous Blast
4 Flame Javelin
Negate could also be Remove Soul, depending on what you figure is going to be more painful to you. Usual kill involves Spiteful Visions. Yes, they get to draw first... but they're taking damage first, and if you counter anything useful, it's going to be over quick. Put out two Spiteful Visions, and they're taking *6* damage per turn (3 cards, 2 damage each). You also have 8 "Chars" in Psionic Blast and Flame Javelin. Sulferous Blast takes care of weenies to begin with, Incendiary Command plays clean-up (as well as dealing them 4 or eating a man-land *or* cycling people's hands and dealing bunches of damage with Spiteful Visions). Ancestral Visions reloads your hand, though can also be used as a very bad Lightning Bolt with a Spiteful Visions in play... but if it kills them, that's the point!
Spam Warning.
-Lotus
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
....that actually sounds either really decent or really crappy.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
Look the real fact is when you play the spell with twin cast and all....it really comes down to how many permaments your opponent has in play. And yeah that rogue thing of the first matchup? Yeah the second and third ones basically make you flop. A one trick pony thats good once and then thats it.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
By the way I have yet to see a deck play gutteral response in both rock, RDW, and anything really playing red or green. Hell even "Little Kid" doesn't play it.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.