ok can't tell how many times ive been raped by this stupid card a while ago in the pre-release (went 2-0 then finisher 2-2, :(), i've seen snakeform in a looot of decks in the prerelease, can it be constructed worthy?
castrates chameleon colossus
destroys lark trigger
kills random stuff (as long as you have a dude to block)
and draws a card?
what do you think - constructed worthy or just for the limited format?
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Ovinize has been legal for quite some time, and seen zero play, despite being a direct reprint of the once great Humble.
The problem isn't how powerful the effect is, it's the fact that it's only good a portion of the time. You need a creature, otherwise it "almost-fogs" a creature, not "cantripping kill".
The cantrip makes any card a bit more appealing, but my hopes aren't high. Why not test it out in a deck of yours, and let us know whether it's worth it or not?
It seems ok IMO, for green/blue Pseudo removel I think its nice, at least they have a way of killing big guys now outside of PongifyOnivize and Lignify
The cantrip makes any card a bit more appealing, but my hopes aren't high.
Uhh... "a bit more"? Remand wouldn't have been NEARLY playable without that little bit of card drawing power tacked onto it. In fact, a large majority of the cantrips printed recently are utterly worthless without said cantrip.
Peppersmoke is stud removal for Faeries, but without "draw a card", it's a bad Darkblast. Aquitect's Will doesn't see much play outside of Merfolk, and it wouldn't be playable even IN merfolk without "draw a card" in the rules text.
If Lignify put a card into your hand (IN ANY WAY IMAGINEABLE) as it came into play, it would be the best common in t2. With that said, Snakeform is ridiculous, and is a great compliment to any GU Tempo deck. I have no doubt it will find a home in any form of WUG blink revival, or any sort of GU deck in general.
Uhh... "a bit more"? Remand wouldn't have been NEARLY playable without that little bit of card drawing power tacked onto it. In fact, a large majority of the cantrips printed recently are utterly worthless without said cantrip.
Umm. I didn't say "I don't know what tempo means!". Of course Remand is made possible by the cantrip, but it also stops a spell for the moment, for 2cc to boot. If you want to know which is the top "tempo" card in eventide, that titl;e belongs to the excellent Dream Fracture. Snakeform is certainly a fine card, and I'm not saying it isn't, but it doesn't have much of a home right now (though pre-rotation UG tempo has a decent lineup), and even then, thare are probably better things you could be doing with your 75 than playing a situational "removal" card. Given the manafixing, it would almost always be worth it to just play some form of pure removal, like Oblivion Ring, Terror, etc.
Also, all the cards you mentioned that are superb due to cantrips are also offered at bargain prices. -1/-1 instant speed removal with a cantrip would be horrible at any slot but 1cc. Same goes for Aquitects will (questionable choice in Merfolk anyways imho, but ONLY good because the deck can utilize it to it's full extent, and it's usually "free" with Reejery) If it still costed two, than yes, it would be pretty amazing, but 3cc isn't exactly "bargain", is it?
ok can't tell how many times ive been raped by this stupid card a while ago in the pre-release (went 2-0 then finisher 2-2, :(), i've seen snakeform in a looot of decks in the prerelease, can it be constructed worthy?
castrates chameleon colossus
destroys lark trigger
kills random stuff (as long as you have a dude to block)
and draws a card?
what do you think - constructed worthy or just for the limited format?
It's good. At the very least, it will see extensive play in block. I'd place money on it seeing play in std too, though.
People are forgetting that there are a number of widely played, and useful creatures that snakeform destroys outright, whether you have a blocker or not. ANY creature with a X/-1 counter on it will die post-snakeform. That includes Kitchen Finks, Wall of Roots, Murderous Redcap, Grim Poppet, Glen Elendra Archmage, Thunderblust, Restless Apparition (which WILL see play, if BW does), ANY hatchling, Deity of Scars, Safehold Elite, Devoted Druid, Leech Bonder, Dusk Urchins, Heartmender, Kulrath Knight, and Woodfall Primus.
Last I checked, cantripping instant-speed creature removal that solves Lark, Doran, and Colossus was something that blue and green were both in dire need of. The fact that it just so happens to annihilate vital parts of tier 1 and 2 decks is just a bonus.
yes thats what i've been saying, say its a "situational removal card" it is if you don't have blockers in play - rarely does that happen, i mean everyone uses manlands -
and its usable it blue (what fae merfolk lark base colors are) and green (elves ramp doran base colors), and it's splashable to boot
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It will find an immediate home in some sideboards for Colossus/Reviallark hate, but I don't think it will be main-decked very often. If it were only 1(G/U) that'd be another story.
i think the versatility of it alone will be enough to let it see play. I mean after a CC is pumped making them waste 4 mana and then only letting it hit you for 1 isnt too bad, and if you have it blocked and force them to pump it, then you kill it. It doesnt kill oversoul which is pretty upsetting, but every other threat yo uwill see it makes a 1/1 with no abilities, while at the same time replacing itself.
It costs 3 mana, which is its weakness, but the card isnt going to be played on turn 2 or 3 anyways, so i think the 3 mana is kind of irrelevant. We were spoiled with remand. a 2cc, non UU counterspell with a situational time walk added in, as well as cantripping added on.
I think a few things contributed to this costsing 3 mana. This card is removal, and although it isnt garunteed removal, it is removal 99% of the time. It is also splashable, costing 2 U/G instead of say 1UG, or even UG. You tell me that you would rather pay UG instead of 2 U/G, and ill tell you that you are kidding me. As it is, it can be in any green or blue deck, whick is pretty good imo
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Originally Posted by 18_rabbits What? It's Father's day? I call fake. There's not even a scan to prove it!
i think the versatility of it alone will be enough to let it see play. I mean after a CC is pumped making them waste 4 mana and then only letting it hit you for 1 isnt too bad, and if you have it blocked and force them to pump it, then you kill it. It doesnt kill oversoul which is pretty upsetting, but every other threat yo uwill see it makes a 1/1 with no abilities, while at the same time replacing itself.
It costs 3 mana, which is its weakness, but the card isnt going to be played on turn 2 or 3 anyways, so i think the 3 mana is kind of irrelevant. We were spoiled with remand. a 2cc, non UU counterspell with a situational time walk added in, as well as cantripping added on.
I think a few things contributed to this costsing 3 mana. This card is removal, and although it isnt garunteed removal, it is removal 99% of the time. It is also splashable, costing 2 U/G instead of say 1UG, or even UG. You tell me that you would rather pay UG instead of 2 U/G, and ill tell you that you are kidding me. As it is, it can be in any green or blue deck, whick is pretty good imo
So, if I follow you right, this will be used as removal almost every time, right? And most of the matches I play my opponent has a creature out by turn 2 or 3, and many times this creature is one I'd very much like to get rid of; Kitchen Finks, Wall of Roots, Safehold Elite, Devoted Druid, Dusk Urchins, Doran, Wilt-leaf Cavaliers, and CC off an accelerant, just to name a few (thanks TheChosen1 for the list). I agree with you that the card is good, and in fact plan to have 4 in my sideboard post EVE, but the difference between being able to play this turn 2 versus turn 3 is huge, so your logic is plainly flawed.
Is Snakeform a good card? I think it has the potential to be a solid card out of the board for some decks. Will it be played in any of the top tier of Standard decks? I suppose it could be, but I rather doubt it. As a couple of you have already mentioned, if it cost 1g/u, then perhaps it would be run. It's a nice combat trick when dealing with fatties such as Colossus, but that kind of combat trick is usually better suited to Limited. Deny it or not, it is situational removal. The problem with this kind of card is that it will have to replace something to be included in your 75 cards. Take UW Merfolk, as a for instance. Just what would you remove for it? Merfolk has the hardest time dealing with Colossus, so it would likely have the most motivation to run Snakeform, at least out of the board. Take my own SB listed in My Decks. Burrenton Forge-Tenders? Consign to Dream? Sunlance? Sower of Temptation? The last Reveillark? The only ones that I would even consider for replacement would be the lone Lark and/or the Sunlances. But Sunlance is the way to kill opposing lords, Sowers, etc. And I think I would prefer a 4th Consign in place of the Lark, since it also takes care of Treetop. As has been mentioned elsewhere, regarding this and other cards, if a card will be used in any deck, it must be a better option than what is already in the deck. This card has potential, but just what will it replace and in what decks?
On a related topic. I understand how Snakeform would remove Lark's abilities, but a couple of questions. And please correct me if I am wrong. Since Lark now runs Gargadon as a sac outlet in the best current builds, and the sacrifice is a cost, not the actual trigger which will use the stack, then trying to respond to a Lark sacrifice would not have a target anymore since the complete cost must be paid to activate an ability, correct? And if you just went ahead and played Snakeform targetting Lark, with a GG suspended, then the Lark player could just sac it in response. Correct? I just want to be clear on this one. The way that Snakeform would best "shut down" Lark shenanigans would be in response to the Lark player Wrathing the board. This paragraph was not meant as an argument, I just wanted to make sure that my interpretation of the rules was the correct one...in case I have to deal with this card in the future. Thanks, in advance.:)
Snakeform is insane, and will see a lot of constructed deck, although only from the SB
Its U/G meaning it fits in Faeries AND elves SB
it deals with Chameleon Colossus, and to a lesser Extent deal with all the other green stuff elve is playing, this alone would warrant it's inclusion in many sideboards.
Obv it would suck if it doesn't cantrip.
Its not that great at dealing with lark, although not completely terrible against it too, and yes weatherguy you are correct, against lark with gargadon on the table its completely useless.
you said you use sunlance usually to kill lords more often than not. Obviously, it can also be a utility card to kill smaller guys, but it doesnt cut it against bigger guys like doran, CC, mistbnind clique, gargadon, an agressive (non-comboing) lark, redcap(since if he resolves against merfolk, he tends to eat 2 or 3 dudes at least) and dues, among others.
Snakeform, on the other hand, at the very least, neuters them for a turn, whil replacing itself. It costs 2 more than sunlance, but when have you found yourself using sinlance befre turn 3 in merfolk? I would think not very often. Now there are a couple instances where i think sunlance is better, manly against perfects and LoAs, since they tend to not attack with them if able. However, making their anthem ability go away for a turn is pretty good for a combat trick. Especially in the merfolk mirror, when they try to drop a LoA to alpha strike you.
i would suggest snakeforms over sunlances possibly (i havent tested, i just found it rediculous most of the time at the prerelease)
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Originally Posted by 18_rabbits What? It's Father's day? I call fake. There's not even a scan to prove it!
(i just found it (Snakeform) ridiculous most of the time at the prerelease)
That's because combat tricks like this one are always ridiculously good in Limited. I'm not saying that Snakeform won't be played in constructed, because it likely will. If Persist creatures continue to be a problem, then it will definitely see play to combat Finks, Redcaps, etc. I just don't know what decks will be motivated to run this card enough to remove something for it.
I don't agree with your assessment of Sunlance. It works just fine for what it is SB'd for. It takes out opposing Sowers, LoA/Reejereys, Perfects, etc. It is patently not for Colossus, Doran and other fatties. Consign to Dream is the SB card for them. It is cheaper than Cryptic to cast and is especially effective against decks running Green, and to a lesser degree, Red. It also works very nicely, and usually unexpectedly, against an attacking Treetop Village. Setting them back for two turns, effectively, is better than slowing them down for one turn, which is what Snakeform does. Until testing shows Snakeform to be better, I'll stick to Consign for bounce and Sunlance for Kill.
I don't think the 2 are particularly comparable. Black has plenty of kill, while Blue and Green get bounce and Pacifism effects. This is a pseudo-kill spell that could see play in a deck that doesn't run Black or Red. Certainly worth testing, although a kill spell that costs 3 mana, even cantripping, isn't great by any means in my book.
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My guess is that Snakeform is unplayable in competitive constructed magic.
Three mana for a removal spell that doesn't even work without some extra effort is not worth it.
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castrates chameleon colossus
destroys lark trigger
kills random stuff (as long as you have a dude to block)
and draws a card?
what do you think - constructed worthy or just for the limited format?
The problem isn't how powerful the effect is, it's the fact that it's only good a portion of the time. You need a creature, otherwise it "almost-fogs" a creature, not "cantripping kill".
The cantrip makes any card a bit more appealing, but my hopes aren't high. Why not test it out in a deck of yours, and let us know whether it's worth it or not?
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Uhh... "a bit more"? Remand wouldn't have been NEARLY playable without that little bit of card drawing power tacked onto it. In fact, a large majority of the cantrips printed recently are utterly worthless without said cantrip.
Peppersmoke is stud removal for Faeries, but without "draw a card", it's a bad Darkblast. Aquitect's Will doesn't see much play outside of Merfolk, and it wouldn't be playable even IN merfolk without "draw a card" in the rules text.
If Lignify put a card into your hand (IN ANY WAY IMAGINEABLE) as it came into play, it would be the best common in t2. With that said, Snakeform is ridiculous, and is a great compliment to any GU Tempo deck. I have no doubt it will find a home in any form of WUG blink revival, or any sort of GU deck in general.
Umm. I didn't say "I don't know what tempo means!". Of course Remand is made possible by the cantrip, but it also stops a spell for the moment, for 2cc to boot. If you want to know which is the top "tempo" card in eventide, that titl;e belongs to the excellent Dream Fracture. Snakeform is certainly a fine card, and I'm not saying it isn't, but it doesn't have much of a home right now (though pre-rotation UG tempo has a decent lineup), and even then, thare are probably better things you could be doing with your 75 than playing a situational "removal" card. Given the manafixing, it would almost always be worth it to just play some form of pure removal, like Oblivion Ring, Terror, etc.
Also, all the cards you mentioned that are superb due to cantrips are also offered at bargain prices. -1/-1 instant speed removal with a cantrip would be horrible at any slot but 1cc. Same goes for Aquitects will (questionable choice in Merfolk anyways imho, but ONLY good because the deck can utilize it to it's full extent, and it's usually "free" with Reejery) If it still costed two, than yes, it would be pretty amazing, but 3cc isn't exactly "bargain", is it?
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Snakeform requires a little too much effort to be that good in constructed
The answer is still NO
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It's good. At the very least, it will see extensive play in block. I'd place money on it seeing play in std too, though.
Last I checked, cantripping instant-speed creature removal that solves Lark, Doran, and Colossus was something that blue and green were both in dire need of. The fact that it just so happens to annihilate vital parts of tier 1 and 2 decks is just a bonus.
and its usable it blue (what fae merfolk lark base colors are) and green (elves ramp doran base colors), and it's splashable to boot
It costs 3 mana, which is its weakness, but the card isnt going to be played on turn 2 or 3 anyways, so i think the 3 mana is kind of irrelevant. We were spoiled with remand. a 2cc, non UU counterspell with a situational time walk added in, as well as cantripping added on.
I think a few things contributed to this costsing 3 mana. This card is removal, and although it isnt garunteed removal, it is removal 99% of the time. It is also splashable, costing 2 U/G instead of say 1UG, or even UG. You tell me that you would rather pay UG instead of 2 U/G, and ill tell you that you are kidding me. As it is, it can be in any green or blue deck, whick is pretty good imo
So, if I follow you right, this will be used as removal almost every time, right? And most of the matches I play my opponent has a creature out by turn 2 or 3, and many times this creature is one I'd very much like to get rid of; Kitchen Finks, Wall of Roots, Safehold Elite, Devoted Druid, Dusk Urchins, Doran, Wilt-leaf Cavaliers, and CC off an accelerant, just to name a few (thanks TheChosen1 for the list). I agree with you that the card is good, and in fact plan to have 4 in my sideboard post EVE, but the difference between being able to play this turn 2 versus turn 3 is huge, so your logic is plainly flawed.
On a related topic. I understand how Snakeform would remove Lark's abilities, but a couple of questions. And please correct me if I am wrong. Since Lark now runs Gargadon as a sac outlet in the best current builds, and the sacrifice is a cost, not the actual trigger which will use the stack, then trying to respond to a Lark sacrifice would not have a target anymore since the complete cost must be paid to activate an ability, correct? And if you just went ahead and played Snakeform targetting Lark, with a GG suspended, then the Lark player could just sac it in response. Correct? I just want to be clear on this one. The way that Snakeform would best "shut down" Lark shenanigans would be in response to the Lark player Wrathing the board. This paragraph was not meant as an argument, I just wanted to make sure that my interpretation of the rules was the correct one...in case I have to deal with this card in the future. Thanks, in advance.:)
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Its U/G meaning it fits in Faeries AND elves SB
it deals with Chameleon Colossus, and to a lesser Extent deal with all the other green stuff elve is playing, this alone would warrant it's inclusion in many sideboards.
Obv it would suck if it doesn't cantrip.
Its not that great at dealing with lark, although not completely terrible against it too, and yes weatherguy you are correct, against lark with gargadon on the table its completely useless.
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you said you use sunlance usually to kill lords more often than not. Obviously, it can also be a utility card to kill smaller guys, but it doesnt cut it against bigger guys like doran, CC, mistbnind clique, gargadon, an agressive (non-comboing) lark, redcap(since if he resolves against merfolk, he tends to eat 2 or 3 dudes at least) and dues, among others.
Snakeform, on the other hand, at the very least, neuters them for a turn, whil replacing itself. It costs 2 more than sunlance, but when have you found yourself using sinlance befre turn 3 in merfolk? I would think not very often. Now there are a couple instances where i think sunlance is better, manly against perfects and LoAs, since they tend to not attack with them if able. However, making their anthem ability go away for a turn is pretty good for a combat trick. Especially in the merfolk mirror, when they try to drop a LoA to alpha strike you.
i would suggest snakeforms over sunlances possibly (i havent tested, i just found it rediculous most of the time at the prerelease)
That's because combat tricks like this one are always ridiculously good in Limited. I'm not saying that Snakeform won't be played in constructed, because it likely will. If Persist creatures continue to be a problem, then it will definitely see play to combat Finks, Redcaps, etc. I just don't know what decks will be motivated to run this card enough to remove something for it.
I don't agree with your assessment of Sunlance. It works just fine for what it is SB'd for. It takes out opposing Sowers, LoA/Reejereys, Perfects, etc. It is patently not for Colossus, Doran and other fatties. Consign to Dream is the SB card for them. It is cheaper than Cryptic to cast and is especially effective against decks running Green, and to a lesser degree, Red. It also works very nicely, and usually unexpectedly, against an attacking Treetop Village. Setting them back for two turns, effectively, is better than slowing them down for one turn, which is what Snakeform does. Until testing shows Snakeform to be better, I'll stick to Consign for bounce and Sunlance for Kill.
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I don't think the 2 are particularly comparable. Black has plenty of kill, while Blue and Green get bounce and Pacifism effects. This is a pseudo-kill spell that could see play in a deck that doesn't run Black or Red. Certainly worth testing, although a kill spell that costs 3 mana, even cantripping, isn't great by any means in my book.
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Three mana for a removal spell that doesn't even work without some extra effort is not worth it.