I wanted to try a different take on this archetype focusing more on control and abusing the stack to combo off rather than playing spells separately. It's basically a UW control base with Baral and Reservoir. Unwind helps it combo off since with either a Baral or Immortal Sun out you will net mana from the effect. With both it nets you 2 mana. Baral is also a great loot engine with so many counterspells.
Still a rough prototype trying to find the best combination of spells that allow you to combo off. It may just be better to play a bunch of worthless 1 mana instants rather than the more expensive counterspells but it gives you a worse matchup against control.
This kind of list isn't without its merits, but the question becomes why not play a true control finisher? Something like Teferi.
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I can't wait to try out Sai, Master Thopterist. The card is a strong defensive play and an alternative wincon against control, while also preventing flooding.
This kind of list isn't without its merits, but the question becomes why not play a true control finisher? Something like Teferi.
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I can't wait to try out Sai, Master Thopterist. The card is a strong defensive play and an alternative wincon against control, while also preventing flooding.
True. I just liked the interaction that using instants on the stack has with Aetherflux and wanted to find a way to make the most of it.
I hadn't seen Sai but yeah that looks like it could be really interesting. Omniscience looked like alot of fun and could reasonably be cast in this deck with a Statuary out.
Tried playing a second league today and got there.
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(MU:s were Jeskai Control, BU Midrange, RB Aggro, Mono R, RB Aggro. Today's list: https://puu.sh/AR1Q3/51c1c3ceae.png)
I love this deck. This is great to see, congratulations.
Sai, master thopterist has been great so far in testing. To fit everything, I'm trying:
-1 field of ruin, -1 sentinel totem, -2 baaral, +1 mox amber, +3 sai.
I moved the totem and field of ruin to the sideboard. I cut merchant's dockhand to fit everything but this could be a mistake.
Edit:
2 sai main might be enough, moved back to 19 lands and moved the third sai to the sideboard.
This kind of list isn't without its merits, but the question becomes why not play a true control finisher? Something like Teferi.
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I can't wait to try out Sai, Master Thopterist. The card is a strong defensive play and an alternative wincon against control, while also preventing flooding.
True. I just liked the interaction that using instants on the stack has with Aetherflux and wanted to find a way to make the most of it.
I hadn't seen Sai but yeah that looks like it could be really interesting. Omniscience looked like alot of fun and could reasonably be cast in this deck with a Statuary out.
I've been tempted to try that trick as well. It's just that if I have the ability to cast Omniscience it feels like I just defeated the point of using Omniscience. I could have cast Nezahal, Primal Tide with that much mana.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I love this deck. This is great to see, congratulations.
Sai, master thopterist has been great so far in testing. To fit everything, I'm trying:
-1 field of ruin, -1 sentinel totem, -2 baaral, +1 mox amber, +3 sai.
I moved the totem and field of ruin to the sideboard. I cut merchant's dockhand to fit everything but this could be a mistake.
Edit:
2 sai main might be enough, moved back to 19 lands and moved the third sai to the sideboard.
I'm starting off lean, cutting a Reverse Engineer and an Expertise from main. I'm looking forward to seeing how well Sai's ability can be used in an actual gameplay situation to prevent flooding.
Why no whir of invention? It allows us to search for the missing piece EOT or additional 0cmc pieces. It also can pressure the control players mana. In addition it can also search up potential sideboard hate.
Fun deck though, I’ve been trying some variations and I’m having a blast in standard for the first time in a while.
Why no whir of invention? It allows us to search for the missing piece EOT or additional 0cmc pieces. It also can pressure the control players mana. In addition it can also search up potential sideboard hate.
Fun deck though, I’ve been trying some variations and I’m having a blast in standard for the first time in a while.
Hey, I'm glad to hear you've enjoyed playing this deck.
Here's some copypaste from +1 years ago:
I'm not playing Whir in the MD because in general it makes you slower to combo and weaker against aggro. Having more actual Reservoirs and Statuaries makes it easier to gain life incrementally while you dig for the Outcome, which is essential against aggro. With Whir you need to play out your artifacts before you have a Reservoir in play, which denies you the lifegain from playing those artifacts. Your Expertises also become much better this way, both when you are just buying time and resetting board, and when you are trying to combo with a Statuary in play. Having more Reservoirs in the MD also allows you to win without going off with an Outcome; sometimes you can gain enough life through playing multiple Reservoirs and possibly slowing the opponent down with Expertises.
-Unlike Reservoir, Whir cannot be cast for free with Expertise (to get you a Reservoir). This is something like 80% of the reason for why I don't play the card.
-Decreases my artifact density - quite relevant with Crane. There are often situations where I have plenty of resources and I'm trying to dig for Reservoir to win me the game with Baral's Expertise, and 1-mana Cranes are an excellent way to dig for the Reservoir. This wouldn't work with Whir.
-Forces me to build my deck in such a way that it has a critical mass of 0-mana artifacts to support Whir. I would have to cut cards that in my mind are crucial for this deck to operate.***
-Forces me to play (at least a good amount of) my 0-mana artifacts before I have Reservoir in play. The card simply doesn't work harmoniously with the synergies and card interactions of this deck.
***this was back when we had access to 12 "moxen"
Whir could be useful in the board, but the problem is that using Whir to resolve Statuary or Reservoir still doesn't get you anywhere. Card draw and standalone threats are the priority.
Thanks for that! Completely makes sense and helps me avoid learning that over the course of a month of testing with it.
Is there a sideboard guide posted previously I can see? Much appreciated. Really hoping I can get gud enough with this to run it in GPLA instead mono red.
I am going to take this deck to my county's nationals, they will be a week after m19 release. What would you change in the deck from new cards we getting?
I would not play this deck if I wanted to do well at Nationals. Control obliterates this thing and you should expect a lot of Control.
There was a window where this deck was decent, but that window has long passed.
As for Sai, he spawns his own archetype, don't really think it belongs here.
Thanks for that! Completely makes sense and helps me avoid learning that over the course of a month of testing with it.
Is there a sideboard guide posted previously I can see? Much appreciated. Really hoping I can get gud enough with this to run it in GPLA instead mono red.
There is no sb guide because I'm always working on the strategies, especially now that there is a new set out. I've been busy playing prereleases the past couple of days, but I'm going to continue playing and streaming the deck starting from today. As for Sai, there is definitely room for him in this build, although new archetypes might emerge too.
I am going to take this deck to my county's nationals, they will be a week after m19 release. What would you change in the deck from new cards we getting?
If you want to see my most up to date list at any given time you should check my most recent VOD on my twitch channel.
For those interested, i've attached a screen shot of my current build of the deck. I was wrong about Sai, guy is a major beast. The bonus of him turning on Moxens is also pretty great. You don't need aetherflux to win the game and although this strategy is a little soft to Chainwhirlers, we can make tokens more often than they can kill them so you only really need one turn...Give it a whirl, deck is fun.
I just finished a game where Opp played 2 spyglasses on T4 on Aetherflux and...lost lol.
I’ve been playing a version with 3 Karn and 4 sai and it’s been pretty good. Definitely have a great plan b and way to keep them occupied trying to deal with sai or huge tokens from Karn and you set up your storm turn or you just go off with sai and have 10 thopters in a turn.
My current biggest questions is how much do I like reverse engineer vs glint nest crane. I feel like glint nest isn’t finding us business spells and only can grab enablers with the exclusion of reservoir. Engineer just draws 3 and can draw into the threats or pieces we need like PO or expertise.
I’ve been playing a version with 3 Karn and 4 sai and it’s been pretty good. Definitely have a great plan b and way to keep them occupied trying to deal with sai or huge tokens from Karn and you set up your storm turn or you just go off with sai and have 10 thopters in a turn.
My current biggest questions is how much do I like reverse engineer vs glint nest crane. I feel like glint nest isn’t finding us business spells and only can grab enablers with the exclusion of reservoir. Engineer just draws 3 and can draw into the threats or pieces we need like PO or expertise.
I cut glint-nest entirely. It's just not possible to run it and consistently have it hit something relevant.
I have gone up to 4 Sais. Card is too much of a house not to run more.
Tezzeret has quietly been very very good in the deck and honestly? It can replace RE. After playing quite a few matches, i'm sad to report that the deck does indeed need Baral's expertise. Zombies is a massive issue without it since they get too big too fast without any interactions.
Here's my most recent list, I'm also on 4x Sai atm. My sb is changing constantly, I think I'm off of 2nd Totem.
What matchups do you want the sideboarded Whir of Invention in? Also, I noticed you went up to 20 lands when most lists are still on 18.
Yeah, I was still losing more games and matches due to screwing than flooding so adding the 4th Void seemed like a good move to make. Whir is mostly for Grixis control MU. I've felt that it's less profitable to force spells to resolve on your own turn with Rebuke etc., since they have Abrades and Contempts to deal with resolved threats, which UW was lacking. For that reason I wanted to have more spells that I can use to start a fight with on the opponents' EOT.
I've been having some success with Salvager of Secrets as a way to loop Outcomes and Expertise. Has anyone tried this? It creates some inevitability once your mana engine is up, and it allows you to use early Outcomes and Expertise and refuel up later.
I'm doing some testing tonight. I'll post my list after some results.
I haven't played this deck in forever, but I saw Gabriel Nassif streaming with it and then I started watching DiabloXSC. I was excited when I saw you two in a mirror Tiemuu. I've picked up most of the things needed to update from my old version and plan to jam it in paper tomorrow. What do you think of a version that focuses more on Karn, Tezzeret, Antiquities War in the main?
Still a rough prototype trying to find the best combination of spells that allow you to combo off. It may just be better to play a bunch of worthless 1 mana instants rather than the more expensive counterspells but it gives you a worse matchup against control.
3 Baral, Chief of Compliance
Artifacts
3 Aetherflux Reservoir
2 The Immortal Sun
Instants
4 Unwind
3 Syncopate
3 Disallow
3 Settle the Wreckage
2 Glimmer of Genius
2 Opt
2 Supreme Will
2 Commit
3 Refurbish
2 Fumigate
Land
4 Aether Hub
2 Field of Ruin
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Inventors' Fair
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Irrigated Farmland
8 Island
3 Plains
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I can't wait to try out Sai, Master Thopterist. The card is a strong defensive play and an alternative wincon against control, while also preventing flooding.
Youtube Channel
True. I just liked the interaction that using instants on the stack has with Aetherflux and wanted to find a way to make the most of it.
I hadn't seen Sai but yeah that looks like it could be really interesting. Omniscience looked like alot of fun and could reasonably be cast in this deck with a Statuary out.
Youtube Channel
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(MU:s were Jeskai Control, BU Midrange, RB Aggro, Mono R, RB Aggro. Today's list: https://puu.sh/AR1Q3/51c1c3ceae.png)
Youtube Channel
Sai, master thopterist has been great so far in testing. To fit everything, I'm trying:
-1 field of ruin, -1 sentinel totem, -2 baaral, +1 mox amber, +3 sai.
I moved the totem and field of ruin to the sideboard. I cut merchant's dockhand to fit everything but this could be a mistake.
Edit:
2 sai main might be enough, moved back to 19 lands and moved the third sai to the sideboard.
I've been tempted to try that trick as well. It's just that if I have the ability to cast Omniscience it feels like I just defeated the point of using Omniscience. I could have cast Nezahal, Primal Tide with that much mana.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've had similar plans in my mind apart from trying 18 lands. This is my first list though: https://puu.sh/AREyS/6288fdce0a.png
I'm starting off lean, cutting a Reverse Engineer and an Expertise from main. I'm looking forward to seeing how well Sai's ability can be used in an actual gameplay situation to prevent flooding.
Youtube Channel
Fun deck though, I’ve been trying some variations and I’m having a blast in standard for the first time in a while.
Hey, I'm glad to hear you've enjoyed playing this deck.
Here's some copypaste from +1 years ago:
I'm not playing Whir in the MD because in general it makes you slower to combo and weaker against aggro. Having more actual Reservoirs and Statuaries makes it easier to gain life incrementally while you dig for the Outcome, which is essential against aggro. With Whir you need to play out your artifacts before you have a Reservoir in play, which denies you the lifegain from playing those artifacts. Your Expertises also become much better this way, both when you are just buying time and resetting board, and when you are trying to combo with a Statuary in play. Having more Reservoirs in the MD also allows you to win without going off with an Outcome; sometimes you can gain enough life through playing multiple Reservoirs and possibly slowing the opponent down with Expertises.
-Unlike Reservoir, Whir cannot be cast for free with Expertise (to get you a Reservoir). This is something like 80% of the reason for why I don't play the card.
-Decreases my artifact density - quite relevant with Crane. There are often situations where I have plenty of resources and I'm trying to dig for Reservoir to win me the game with Baral's Expertise, and 1-mana Cranes are an excellent way to dig for the Reservoir. This wouldn't work with Whir.
-Forces me to build my deck in such a way that it has a critical mass of 0-mana artifacts to support Whir. I would have to cut cards that in my mind are crucial for this deck to operate.***
-Forces me to play (at least a good amount of) my 0-mana artifacts before I have Reservoir in play. The card simply doesn't work harmoniously with the synergies and card interactions of this deck.
***this was back when we had access to 12 "moxen"
Whir could be useful in the board, but the problem is that using Whir to resolve Statuary or Reservoir still doesn't get you anywhere. Card draw and standalone threats are the priority.
Youtube Channel
Is there a sideboard guide posted previously I can see? Much appreciated. Really hoping I can get gud enough with this to run it in GPLA instead mono red.
I would not play this deck if I wanted to do well at Nationals. Control obliterates this thing and you should expect a lot of Control.
There was a window where this deck was decent, but that window has long passed.
As for Sai, he spawns his own archetype, don't really think it belongs here.
There is no sb guide because I'm always working on the strategies, especially now that there is a new set out. I've been busy playing prereleases the past couple of days, but I'm going to continue playing and streaming the deck starting from today. As for Sai, there is definitely room for him in this build, although new archetypes might emerge too.
Youtube Channel
If you want to see my most up to date list at any given time you should check my most recent VOD on my twitch channel.
Youtube Channel
1 Inventors' Fair
4 Zhalfirin Void
13 Island
*0 CMC:*
3 Mox Amber
4 Ornithopter
*1 CMC:*
4 Renegade Map
*2 CMC:*
3 Glint-Nest Crane
1 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
4 Prophetic Prism
3 Metallic Rebuke
3 Sai, Master Thopterist
4 Inspiring Statuary
*4 CMC:*
4 Paradoxical Outcome
2 Aetherflux Reservoir
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Commit // Memory
*5 CMC:*
3 Baral's Expertise
1 Baral, Chief of Compliance
4 Negate
1 Metallic Rebuke
2 River's Rebuke
2 Commit // Memory
1 Silent Gravestone
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
I managed to get only 6 matches in until I was too tired, more matches today.
Youtube Channel
He is basically another big must answer threat for us.
He has helped out vs rdw even with chainwhirler.
I’m going to watch your VOD now to see how you did.
Also I haven’t cared much for reliquary tower and cut it personally.
I just finished a game where Opp played 2 spyglasses on T4 on Aetherflux and...lost lol.
I’ve been playing a version with 3 Karn and 4 sai and it’s been pretty good. Definitely have a great plan b and way to keep them occupied trying to deal with sai or huge tokens from Karn and you set up your storm turn or you just go off with sai and have 10 thopters in a turn.
My current biggest questions is how much do I like reverse engineer vs glint nest crane. I feel like glint nest isn’t finding us business spells and only can grab enablers with the exclusion of reservoir. Engineer just draws 3 and can draw into the threats or pieces we need like PO or expertise.
I cut glint-nest entirely. It's just not possible to run it and consistently have it hit something relevant.
I have gone up to 4 Sais. Card is too much of a house not to run more.
Tezzeret has quietly been very very good in the deck and honestly? It can replace RE. After playing quite a few matches, i'm sad to report that the deck does indeed need Baral's expertise. Zombies is a massive issue without it since they get too big too fast without any interactions.
Here's my most recent list, I'm also on 4x Sai atm. My sb is changing constantly, I think I'm off of 2nd Totem.
Youtube Channel
What matchups do you want the sideboarded Whir of Invention in? Also, I noticed you went up to 20 lands when most lists are still on 18.
Yeah, I was still losing more games and matches due to screwing than flooding so adding the 4th Void seemed like a good move to make. Whir is mostly for Grixis control MU. I've felt that it's less profitable to force spells to resolve on your own turn with Rebuke etc., since they have Abrades and Contempts to deal with resolved threats, which UW was lacking. For that reason I wanted to have more spells that I can use to start a fight with on the opponents' EOT.
Youtube Channel
I'm doing some testing tonight. I'll post my list after some results.
Modern: UW Spirits