In my greedy pursuit of playing all the powerful new cards, I focused on Jadelight Ranger and Rekindling Phoenix. My first attempt was Jund, but I couldn't make the mana work. Then, perusing successful decks on mtggoldfish, I noticed some that could work for me, using Explore to dump Eternalize creatures for virtual card advantage. Me gusto!
Do these count as "stompy" decks? Please chime in to give feedback, ask questions, educate my use of MTG vocabulary or just celebrate smashing face.
I've watched him stream via his twitc account it's very good. The format as whole seems weak to flyers, I'm between Sultai Midrange and GR Monsters for this weekend's bout of PPTQ's. I'm so used to playing with dorks in this kinds of lists so not seeing a 2mc mana dork always irks me but I guess the deck can put of lots of pressure due how mana 2cmc creatures it runs. With the primer removal spells being Vraska's Contempt and Fatal Push, cards like Glorybriner and Rekindling Pheonix do a great job of taxing removal.
I've ordered the last few cards and even have a budget concession in my list (3 Phoenix). I looked at decklists and played most of the cards in my Jund list, but you know more than I do.
Brennan's list looks extremely solid to me. The explore creatures don't ramp, per se, but should improve the land count and fixing marginally.
My substitution of Evolving Wilds and Arch of Orazca is not something I would recommend for a PPTQ. Rishkar seems worth consideration. If you do go with this, I would love to hear how it goes. I should get some testing in this weekend, and I expect to run my version on Monday Standard.
The card I wonder about most is Hour of Devastation. When does it come in?
I took my slightly budget version (3 Phoenixes) out tonight. It was a 4 round event, but only 3 for me as I started out with the bye.
Round 2 was against Temur, captured onstream here starting at 1:03:22. Game 1 went well, but in Game 2 I had no answers to Vizier of Many Faces copying my Rhonas. The game went to the air and my opponent drew more of his Glorybringers than I did my Glorybringers and Phoenixes. I punted by not killing a Glorybringer with Chandra at one point. Game 3 went to his better draws, but the match seems fairly even to favored for us despite my loss.
Round 3 was against Grixis control. Game one I just had unrelenting pressure and got there with 2 Glorybringers and 2 Phoenixes. Game 2 had a few Magma Sprayed Earthshaker Khenras before one stuck. I stuck on 4 lands for a while and Nicol Bolas came down to cast my Merfolk Branchwalkers. Rishkar turnout out to be vital in allowing me to cast my Carnage Tyrants, which carried the day.
Round 4 was against Mono-Red Aggro. I won the die roll and whoever went first won each of the three games.
Officially 3-1 with the bye for 4th on tiebreaks out of ~13.
The deck was fine. I didn't have answers to Indestructible Gods, although I did Struggle to Survive to deal with The Scarab God. I recommend Rishkar over the second Pia Nalaar. The Arch of Orazca was never useful, but the Evolving Wilds was. Deck is here, but is the same as above.
Looking through the MTGO 5-0 decks, I saw some more lists. In particular, some with splashes that address our God problem. While Puncturing Blow and Struggle // Survive can deal with The Scarab God, they are clunky and I find myself wanting a single instant speed answer like Vraska's Contempt that can deal with Rhonas, Hazoret and the Vizier of Many Faces.
Smithenator dives into U for Confiscation Coup here.
I am inclined to try the W splash as it doesn't seem as greedy and for the pleasure of the opponent reading Ajani Unyielding and saying what I thought: "Didn't this card rotate?"
Been running this list on Mtgo, both competitive leagues have gone 3-2. There were mistakes made in the 2nd league, specifically on SB'ing against RB aggro; which requires a different SB plan than straight mono red). Struggle // Survive is very good against them, and 2-3 is correct. After losing that match , I played against RB aggro and this time changed the SB plan and won 2-0.
That League went:
2-1 Vs Sultai Ramp Control
2-0 Vs RB aggro
2-0 Vs Grixis Control
Losses to
Mono Red 2-1 (This match up is hard, I board in 2 Hour of Devastation's. Traditionally the bigger Midrange decks are favored against mono red but...not this time.)
BR Aggro 0-2, learning, and taking hits on the chin with the SB plans. Redeemed myself by learning quickly and crushing the same arch type in R3.
This deck is favored against:
Control decks (Jam your threats sequence properly, pick and chose which creature you want countered, and exhaust their Contempt targets by consantly beating them down with your 2 drops. As we say " Attack")
GB/x Wish decks, we top deck haste flyers, and birds that have 2nd lives.
Midrange GB/x, the bane of these decks last season was Glorybringer, life has gotten harder for this arch type with the addition of Rekindling Phoenix.
GPG, depending on the build this deck feels favored. Having 6 MD answers to GPG means you accidentally have a good match up.
Hard mode games:
Mono Red
BW Tokens (look it's not good, but winnable if you can just curve out into big flying things). You hit the concede button once you are out of cards, and they start generating more than 2 tokens a turn/ and above 10 life. Don't waste your time. If you have an on board that's about to ULT, stay, but most of the time it eats an Ixalan's Binding because they can wait and don't care about the uptick. The deck catches up from behind very quickly.
Even:
BR Aggro feels easier to beat than Mono red.
@Worldsaverinc - yeah, that's a decent splashable option. I couldn't get the Jund Mana to work, but I wasn't running Servant like these other splashes.
@NightSymphonicX - nice work! Thanks for the report. Is Mono-R hard because of Hazoret? Did you run Sultai Mid-range at the PPTQ?
I played Sultai and it went poorly this weekend. That's fine, I didn't run well but I played some good magic. I had some mana issues and sort of got stuck in a few matches drawing dead. One match was 3x Botanical Sanctum and no B in sight on a mull to 5. Moments like that make you remember that variance is a very real thing.
On Hazoret, yes and we have a very hard time beating a resolved Hazoret. My board has 2x Hour of Devastation but that doesn't always do enough once the damage has been done. Our match up against RB aggro is much better, as our removal match ups well against their threats. That deck is less explosive and is hedging to beat the control decks. The mono red match up is probably 45-55? After Sb is gets better but it's still a slug fest.
Against Red:
1) You cannot miss land drops
2) You cannot ignore building up your board (Unless you hand is removal heavy)
3) Block when possible
4) Rhonas is great
5) Aim to control the board, and chump often.
A few friends played GR Monsters over the weekend and each of them lost to mono red. So the data shows that it's not a good match up. If that's true we will have a rough time going forward. That said, UB control, Grixis Midrange/control, Sultai Ramp, GB Wish, RB aggro, all Variants of GPG (Madcap may be the exception), GB anything feel like favorable match ups. The issue is that mono red is the number 1 deck so, if tokens goes up in the meta shares, we can hedge to beat that, but shoring up mono red may take some tweaking.
so, went 5-0 in a competitive league with the deck. Hope to see it in standard 5-0 league finishes. my mtgo name is racerxen ( i used to have the same name here but for some reason i couldnt sign in with that nane anymore since i merged with twitch?!) anyhow wins vs
esper tokens 2-0
gw aggro 2-1
grixis midrange 2-1
ub control 2-0
the mirror 2-1 (finals)
I'm a bit sad to lose 4 years worth of posts but ehh, fresh starts are fine. The community likes info and data, the least we can do is provide meaningful data and help players, thereby making our base here stronger.
only GR list there (there is a Temur monsters list too). The meta is shifting quite a bit. My 3 wrath effects did help that league, and I went up to 2 HoD/ Sweltering Suns specifically for Hazoret the Fervent and Andanto Vanguard
Tested for an hour against mono red, and it's just not good G1. We knew this but, I needed to see it action in-front of me to confirm it. I'm not exactly sure how to shore this up yet, the Naya list seems much better against the aggro decks current iteration of midrange decks. I can see that list having a harder UB control match up. Losing the Kherna's and the on curve pressure does matter against the current control decks. It's a trade off.
Well, we have a GP win !!! Everyone came out in full force to hate out red, and as a result GR Monsters rode that hate to victory. If that's where we are heading, GR monsters will be well positioned. Sweet victory!
His MD changes were
-1 Pia
+1 Green Kherna
SB was pretty close to stock, I wasn't big on the Archers, but in a field of mono red, it may stack up very nicely. Glorybringer hath brough the glory once again. G2 was won without any heavy hitters, just Kherna and merfolk Value town.
Does this mean we get to move this thread to Proven ?
Another 4-1 Competitive League result:
Cut the Blossoming Defense from the Sb but added the archers. The Archers were excellent against mono red which I 2-0'd.
So I ran a similar list to the gp winner's over the weekend and was uncontested in some local tournaments. The only changes were -pia +brontodon in the main, and my sideboard was 1 struggle, 1 magma spray, 2 defeat, 2 naturalize, 2 deathgorge scavanger, 3 chandra, 2 carnage tyrant, 2 hour of devastation.
I basically went off of some 5-0 lists and just tuned it slightly for what I knew The meta would be. I would like to possibly run this in an invitational this weekend in an unknown (to me) meta but these usually play out similar to pptqs with little to no nonsense. So my question is should I just run with the gp list? I do have personal bias when it comes to a few choices but sometimes that gets me in trouble.
For one, I tend to value naturalize over brontodon in a deck like this, we have no way of recurring value from it, but I feel fine with it in the main as its flexible in game 1 where enchantment removal can steal a game or 2. I prefer my sideboard to be streamlined, and 2 mana disenchant is more efficient than at 4.
Is it wrong to drop the pia? I don't feel it's great as a one of. I see the value of stalling against red, but it doesn't seem to be doing much here other than that and if that's all it is doing I don't want to rely on drawing a one of. Another option I see here is maindecking 2 scavangers over pia and the 3rd resilient khenra . Gaining 2 and not having to deal with an eternalized khenra is fine, even if it eats an abrade or lightning strike we still get value and there aren't many matches that we lose much by playing i. The 3 drop spot is the lightest in the deck. But perhaps dropping to 2 resilient khenra is just wrong.
Hour of dev vs. Archers. This is one in in the dark about. Games I brought in hour I never saw it so I'm not sure how I feel about it. I get the archers probably get through the first few turns but when mono red boards into big red it seems lackluster to me, maybe I'm just wrong and I will say my mono red games were close. If my hours were archers I still wouldn't have drawn them so I'll never know if they would have helped but drawing an hour in a few spots sure would have made life a little easier. Until they just topdecked another hazoret, it's just semantics at this point anyhow and the true key for any deck to beat mono red is to just win the die roll and answer whatever threats you can without getting rolled.
I always tend to value the 3rd chandra in any deck I am playing her in. That's possibly a mistake here I guess but when I board them in it usually means it's a match I need to see it in. I have stolen so many games with an unanswered Chandra it's hard to imagine shaving one.
That leads me to the only real problem I have with it, blossoming defense. When I played the deck it was so proactive I feel like picking a fight with defense is a bit out of place. I will admit I did not watch the GP and I certainly did not win it so my ramblings and critiques mean little. But most of the creatures are already set up to be 2 for 1's. I'm sure defense can win some games but against control I feel like I would almost rather play a Bestiary in the spot. We don't have any particularly crucial creatures to protect like a hostage taker, and something like bestiary creates value the entire time it's in play.
Anyways like I said I didn't win a GP or pptq or even 5-0 a league with the deck so my thoughts can be taken with a grain of salt. I'm just looking to promote some discussion to next level this thing and maybe get a W with it. The deck will likely get a little more respect than it has been lately, but I think it's hard to hate out a deck that really just relies on playing a sweet curve.
For one, I tend to value naturalize over brontodon in a deck like this, we have no way of recurring value from it, but I feel fine with it in the main as its flexible in game 1 where enchantment removal can steal a game or 2. I prefer my sideboard to be streamlined, and 2 mana disenchant is more efficient than at 4.
There are plenty of enchantments that are worth blowing up but not worth bringing in a specific card to answer it (ie Search for Azcanta). In this case, Thrashing Brontodon is perfect.
On top of that, a GPG is hard pressed to slip underneath a Brontodon over a Naturalize so you're not disincentivized to play Brontodon there.
On top of that, tokens decks take awhile to get their engine going. Might as well smack in for a few turns until your pop your Qasali Pridemage.
Is it wrong to drop the pia? I don't feel it's great as a one of. I see the value of stalling against red, but it doesn't seem to be doing much here other than that and if that's all it is doing I don't want to rely on drawing a one of. Another option I see here is maindecking 2 scavangers over pia and the 3rd resilient khenra . Gaining 2 and not having to deal with an eternalized khenra is fine, even if it eats an abrade or lightning strike we still get value and there aren't many matches that we lose much by playing i. The 3 drop spot is the lightest in the deck. But perhaps dropping to 2 resilient khenra is just wrong.
Recall the early days of KTK standard. Jeskai Tempo was king (until the PT). In that mirror, you couldn't tap out for a Mantis Rider or your opponent would Strike it, untap, and slam a Goblin Rabblemaster. Then, hey, you were behind and had to use your mana retroactive against their threats. Now, OG mod rujasu put me on Rw Aggro that crushed Jeskai. How did it do that? We tapped out for Hordeling Outburst, blanking their removal and their opportunity to yank tempo in their favor.
Ok, Pia Nalaar is not Hordeling Outburst. But sometimes it's close. In a format where a large portion of the field is trying to tempo your 3 drop with a 2 drop removal spell, Pia effects the board and blanks their Abrade. Obviously, the card doesn't scale that well but the premise is this -- with as many decks packing Abrade, Lightning Strike, Shock, and Magma Spray, you need 3 mana threats that don't trade down on mana.*
On the other hand, if you expect to fight against decks packing a bunch of fatties where Pia will get outclassed, maybe it's right to cut her -- but if you're playing against decks that will try to react to your threats, I cannot recommend her enough.
*I think it's worth mentioning here that Thrashing Brontodon also blanks this removal. But Pia is better against Red's go-wide draw, so take what you will...
Took a variation of this to a local Standard Showdown and went 3-0. All matches were 2-1 and played a GW aggro that used servos, a merfolk deck and RW Aggro deck.
Couple changes on mine:
Replaced the Earthshakers with Fanatical Firebrand because I didn't have the playset of Earthshakers. These guys were MVPs. Helped take down pesky merfolk and some of the threats in red. Becomes a nice piece of removal that can do some damage for a turn of two.
I ran four Deathgorge instead of the Branchwalkers. They help stabilize by getting you that lifegain and can wreck opponents graveyard plans. They barley ever lasted more than a turn, so they soak up removal as well. Moved two Branchwalkers to the SB if I needed a quicker curve.
I also didn't have the green god, so instead I played a Chandra and two Dire fleet Daredevil (rolled 24 land). Daredevil was interesting, when it is good, it's really good, but there are times there is nothing to play from the opponents yard.
I don't get Struggle // Survive, at all. I understand it can remove larger threats, but so can our Glorybringers, but the Survive side doesn't seem great. I decided to put them in the SB and two Life Goes On in the main. Life Goes On was a game stealer against RW and Merf. You can let them chip in some damage for a couple turns, while removing their smaller creatures or setting up your board. Then when ready slam it down to go up 8. You can always do this with the Fanatical's. By this point you can start reigning down Glorybringers and Phoenix's without having to worry about your health. Hell of a card.
...
I don't get Struggle // Survive, at all. I understand it can remove larger threats, but so can our Glorybringers, but the Survive side doesn't seem great. I decided to put them in the SB and two Life Goes On in the main. ...
When you cast both halves of Struggle // Survive in the same turn, you can get rid of The Scarab God. In our colors, there are few answers to TSG and none for Hazoret. Glorybringer can't really deal with TSG. Of course, we can just kill them before TSG becomes active.
Ah makes sense. Still seems more like a SB card then. I feel Life Goes On can potentially buy us enough time G1 if TSG comes out. G2 just sub in Struggle // Survive. Hazoret was an issue, and seems like betting them before it can do damage is out only way around it.
The more I look at Samut, the Tested the more I like it. Double strike on a Glorybringer or Phoenix can really end the game quickly, and if you can get it to 7 than you can bring out two Glorybringers. Could be worth a MB over Rhonas (I guess I'm just not crazy about Rhonas).
You need to get it off the table before they can untap and activate it. For example, if they untap and activate hitting a Glorybringer, you pretty much autolose.
It's worth noting that in metas where people don't have any money, Struggle // Survive is not necessary because no one has forked out for one of the best mythics in the format (understandable as not everyone has substantial expendable income, has ground their way into substantial store credit, or is a trading fiend, to make the pick-up) . However, if you go to a large event, the top tables will have a substantial amount of TSG making Struggle // Survive a necessity.
So a couple weeks ago o posted a list and needed up scrubbing out with it that week, the deck was fine I had just failed to execute a few lines of play properly and that was that. That being said I sleeved up the following list and placed 3rd-4th at a pptq this weekend.
This is almost a card for card list of the r/g monsters deck that was in the magic online lists last Thursday. I was struggling with some card selections before seeing it and teetering towards the naya version to help deal with all of the Scarab Gods running rampant. I also realized how abysmal our grixis matchup is, and khenras don't really shine there. I wanted to try to go over the top of them, and ramping into turn 3 chandra/Phoenix, turn 4 gloeybringer, turn 5 carnage tyrant seemed incredibly strong, and proved to be so. I have some thoughts going forward on the deck but will give a brief report first.
Round 1 U/B midrange 2-1
Game 1 I was on the play and curved servant into Phoenix and glorybringer, ran away with the game and the only spell op cast was a commit.
(I don't recall every sideboard swap I made that day so I will just give very general descriptions or my games)
For game 2 I had put him on control, which I believe is reasonable as I saw none of the midrange creatures. As such I boarded out the majority of my removal keeping only an Abrade or 2 and my struggles. He ran away with siphoned and champions eventually in a very close game
Game 3 he started to run away again but I was able to stabilize the game state with a scavanger and a Carnage Tyrant followed up by a couple removal spells and fliers to finish the game off.
This was a tight match, though I do feel slightly favored against the blue black decks, it's the red ones we have a really tough time with
Round 2 Sultai constrictor 2-0
This is a tough one to navigate and I was dangerously close to losing both games as the hadana's climb(s) flipped incredibly fast both games. Game one he played a climb followed by a turn 4 hydra, swung in for a ton and I decided I had to race, but the only thing that saved me was dropping subsequent fliers the following turns. Same thing in game 2, only we had a ridiculous board state and I wasn't able to make a push until I had 3 Phoenix, a tyrant, some number of merfolk, a gloeybringer, and a very active Chandra in play.
Enchantment removal is almost useless here but you have to bring it in, field of ruin would be much better though. This match has to be played very tight and I will say I have been underestimating this deck.
Round 3 Grixis Mid 0-2
Game one he answered most of my threats 1 for 1, played a Scarab God on curve, I struggled and survived the SG but he cast another one turn 6 and took over the game.
Game I managed to stick a Chandra and the game got a little Grundy until the Scarab assault began. I struggle//survived 2 in a row and he cast a third one, lights out.
This match sucks, I didn't manage to see any of the good cards I wanted here at all, I feel like tyrant has to come down here early on, also a blossoming defense would have been great, I did board them in just didn't see them, nor did I see a scavenger to deal with his gy.
Round 4 u/r GPG 2-1
Game one I ended up in an odd position where I had to hold up Abrade and couldn't deploy any threats or deal with the value creatures so they just built up and I lost to small creature damage.
Game 2 I curved out with threats and removal eating up his GY with a Scavanger along the way for a win.
Game 3 got into a grind and had to hold up Abrade for a few turns, but luckily I was able to run out a few creatures first and finished the game in the air.
This could be a weird game to play out because they can win out of nowhere, hence the reason to hold up Abrade. I think it's correct to never Abrade the throne and just wait for the gift itself. 8+ artifact removal spells post board should swing this one our way most of the time.
Round 5 ID
Top 8 UB Control 2-0
I started off with a mull to 5 on the draw but was able to curve out and win anyways.
Game 2 I kept an explosive seven and dropped the unstoppable curve.
Top 4 grixis Mid 0-2
Same opponent I lost to in the Swiss.
Game 1 I got stuck on 3 lands and was out valued quickly.
Game 2 mulled to 5, got stuck on 3 lands again and was able to stick things out to about turn 9 and thought I still had a chance to turn it around when I had, i believe a Phoenix in play on an empty board, I was at around 3 love but OP topped a gearhulk to flashback a contempt. I was disappointed that the non games happened, you dont want to lose like that in the top 4 and this deck usually mulligans and draws fairly well, but nobody is immune to variance and i feel that i played both games correctly. I hope he won out his last match, as I took off to start my hour and a half drive home.
It was a good run and I can't complain. My biggest concern going forward is the grixis matchup and I wouldn't mind finding an edge there somehow. One thing I do have in mind is dropping ballista. This is not a clear call though. I did side it out almost every round, and the only 2 games I even cast it in were the 2 game 1's of my grixis matchups. Despite plunging a thopters or 2 they were really lackluster there, but that isn't really even a matchup I wanted it for to begin with. I loved the idea to begin with, as we can end up never missing land drops in most games and it's a nice mana sink in the late game while being a good early play against mono red. I do think for now though I would drop them, move the 2 Blossoming Defense to the main, and fill that flex spot in the side for something, anything to help fight grixis. I only cast 1 blossoming defense all day, but I had drawn exactly that 1, and there were a few times I really wished to see a copy in my hand.
Anyhow I'm going to get ready for another pptq next week. I'm on the fence about running this back with some small tweaks or just playing grixis myself. I do feel it's correct to either be able to beat that deck or play the better version of it yourself. I think mono red is going to be on the rise soon as well and that is also something to consider.
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Do these count as "stompy" decks? Please chime in to give feedback, ask questions, educate my use of MTG vocabulary or just celebrate smashing face.
Decklists!
1 Pia Nalaar
1 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4 Earthshaker Khenra
3 Resilient Khenra
3 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Jadelight Ranger
4 Glorybringer
3 Rekindling Phoenix
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
Land
4 Sheltered Thicket
2 Hashep Oasis
4 Rootbound Crag
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Arch of Orazca
7 Mountain
6 Forest
1 Heart of Kiran
Instant
3 Magma Spray
4 Abrade
2 Struggle // Survive
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
2 Thrashing Brontodon
2 Carnage Tyrant
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1 Magma Spray
2 Chandra's Defeat
2 Struggle // Survive
1 Shake the Foundations
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
4 Earthshaker Khenra
4 Glorybringer
4 Jadelight Ranger
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Rekindling Phoenix
3 Resilient Khenra
1 Pia Nalaar
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
7 Forest
8 Mountain
2 Hashep Oasis
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Sheltered Thicket
Spells (9)
4 Abrade
3 Magma Spray
2 Struggle
2 Atzocan Archer
2 Carnage Tyrant
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
2 Thrashing Brontodon
1 Chandra's Defeat
1 Magma Spray
1 Naturalize
1 Struggle
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Hour of Devastation
I've watched him stream via his twitc account it's very good. The format as whole seems weak to flyers, I'm between Sultai Midrange and GR Monsters for this weekend's bout of PPTQ's. I'm so used to playing with dorks in this kinds of lists so not seeing a 2mc mana dork always irks me but I guess the deck can put of lots of pressure due how mana 2cmc creatures it runs. With the primer removal spells being Vraska's Contempt and Fatal Push, cards like Glorybriner and Rekindling Pheonix do a great job of taxing removal.
Brennan's list looks extremely solid to me. The explore creatures don't ramp, per se, but should improve the land count and fixing marginally.
My substitution of Evolving Wilds and Arch of Orazca is not something I would recommend for a PPTQ. Rishkar seems worth consideration. If you do go with this, I would love to hear how it goes. I should get some testing in this weekend, and I expect to run my version on Monday Standard.
The card I wonder about most is Hour of Devastation. When does it come in?
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Round 2 was against Temur, captured onstream here starting at 1:03:22. Game 1 went well, but in Game 2 I had no answers to Vizier of Many Faces copying my Rhonas. The game went to the air and my opponent drew more of his Glorybringers than I did my Glorybringers and Phoenixes. I punted by not killing a Glorybringer with Chandra at one point. Game 3 went to his better draws, but the match seems fairly even to favored for us despite my loss.
Round 3 was against Grixis control. Game one I just had unrelenting pressure and got there with 2 Glorybringers and 2 Phoenixes. Game 2 had a few Magma Sprayed Earthshaker Khenras before one stuck. I stuck on 4 lands for a while and Nicol Bolas came down to cast my Merfolk Branchwalkers. Rishkar turnout out to be vital in allowing me to cast my Carnage Tyrants, which carried the day.
Round 4 was against Mono-Red Aggro. I won the die roll and whoever went first won each of the three games.
Officially 3-1 with the bye for 4th on tiebreaks out of ~13.
The deck was fine. I didn't have answers to Indestructible Gods, although I did Struggle to Survive to deal with The Scarab God. I recommend Rishkar over the second Pia Nalaar. The Arch of Orazca was never useful, but the Evolving Wilds was. Deck is here, but is the same as above.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
TGomi77 Splashes W for Thopter Arrest, Cast Out and Ajani Unyielding. Servant of the Conduit in place of Earthshaker Khenra makes this a midrange list rather than aggro, but for me the core of Jadelight Ranger, Rekindling Phoenix and Glorybringer is still intact and I claim this deck for us (me? whatever).
Smithenator dives into U for Confiscation Coup here.
I am inclined to try the W splash as it doesn't seem as greedy and for the pleasure of the opponent reading Ajani Unyielding and saying what I thought: "Didn't this card rotate?"
I am rebranding this thread RGx Monsters/Aggro.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
That League went:
2-1 Vs Sultai Ramp Control
2-0 Vs RB aggro
2-0 Vs Grixis Control
Losses to
Mono Red 2-1 (This match up is hard, I board in 2 Hour of Devastation's. Traditionally the bigger Midrange decks are favored against mono red but...not this time.)
BR Aggro 0-2, learning, and taking hits on the chin with the SB plans. Redeemed myself by learning quickly and crushing the same arch type in R3.
This deck is favored against:
Control decks (Jam your threats sequence properly, pick and chose which creature you want countered, and exhaust their Contempt targets by consantly beating them down with your 2 drops. As we say " Attack")
GB/x Wish decks, we top deck haste flyers, and birds that have 2nd lives.
Midrange GB/x, the bane of these decks last season was Glorybringer, life has gotten harder for this arch type with the addition of Rekindling Phoenix.
GPG, depending on the build this deck feels favored. Having 6 MD answers to GPG means you accidentally have a good match up.
Hard mode games:
Mono Red
BW Tokens (look it's not good, but winnable if you can just curve out into big flying things). You hit the concede button once you are out of cards, and they start generating more than 2 tokens a turn/ and above 10 life. Don't waste your time. If you have an on board that's about to ULT, stay, but most of the time it eats an Ixalan's Binding because they can wait and don't care about the uptick. The deck catches up from behind very quickly.
Even:
BR Aggro feels easier to beat than Mono red.
UB/X Midrange
@NightSymphonicX - nice work! Thanks for the report. Is Mono-R hard because of Hazoret? Did you run Sultai Mid-range at the PPTQ?
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
On Hazoret, yes and we have a very hard time beating a resolved Hazoret. My board has 2x Hour of Devastation but that doesn't always do enough once the damage has been done. Our match up against RB aggro is much better, as our removal match ups well against their threats. That deck is less explosive and is hedging to beat the control decks. The mono red match up is probably 45-55? After Sb is gets better but it's still a slug fest.
Against Red:
1) You cannot miss land drops
2) You cannot ignore building up your board (Unless you hand is removal heavy)
3) Block when possible
4) Rhonas is great
5) Aim to control the board, and chump often.
A few friends played GR Monsters over the weekend and each of them lost to mono red. So the data shows that it's not a good match up. If that's true we will have a rough time going forward. That said, UB control, Grixis Midrange/control, Sultai Ramp, GB Wish, RB aggro, all Variants of GPG (Madcap may be the exception), GB anything feel like favorable match ups. The issue is that mono red is the number 1 deck so, if tokens goes up in the meta shares, we can hedge to beat that, but shoring up mono red may take some tweaking.
esper tokens 2-0
gw aggro 2-1
grixis midrange 2-1
ub control 2-0
the mirror 2-1 (finals)
Edit: Got there! Congrats racerxen!
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I'm a bit sad to lose 4 years worth of posts but ehh, fresh starts are fine. The community likes info and data, the least we can do is provide meaningful data and help players, thereby making our base here stronger.
And Yep we got the list on WOTC 5-0!
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-standard-constructed-league-2018-02-22
racerxen
only GR list there (there is a Temur monsters list too). The meta is shifting quite a bit. My 3 wrath effects did help that league, and I went up to 2 HoD/ Sweltering Suns specifically for Hazoret the Fervent and Andanto Vanguard
Since many of the games devolve into a race, would something like Arborback Stomper help resolve this issue?
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
His MD changes were
-1 Pia
+1 Green Kherna
SB was pretty close to stock, I wasn't big on the Archers, but in a field of mono red, it may stack up very nicely.
Glorybringer hath brough the glory once again. G2 was won without any heavy hitters, just Kherna and merfolk Value town.
Does this mean we get to move this thread to Proven ?
Another 4-1 Competitive League result:
Cut the Blossoming Defense from the Sb but added the archers. The Archers were excellent against mono red which I 2-0'd.
Deck is smooth as butter and very good against removal spells.
I'm moving to Est.
I basically went off of some 5-0 lists and just tuned it slightly for what I knew The meta would be. I would like to possibly run this in an invitational this weekend in an unknown (to me) meta but these usually play out similar to pptqs with little to no nonsense. So my question is should I just run with the gp list? I do have personal bias when it comes to a few choices but sometimes that gets me in trouble.
For one, I tend to value naturalize over brontodon in a deck like this, we have no way of recurring value from it, but I feel fine with it in the main as its flexible in game 1 where enchantment removal can steal a game or 2. I prefer my sideboard to be streamlined, and 2 mana disenchant is more efficient than at 4.
Is it wrong to drop the pia? I don't feel it's great as a one of. I see the value of stalling against red, but it doesn't seem to be doing much here other than that and if that's all it is doing I don't want to rely on drawing a one of. Another option I see here is maindecking 2 scavangers over pia and the 3rd resilient khenra . Gaining 2 and not having to deal with an eternalized khenra is fine, even if it eats an abrade or lightning strike we still get value and there aren't many matches that we lose much by playing i. The 3 drop spot is the lightest in the deck. But perhaps dropping to 2 resilient khenra is just wrong.
Hour of dev vs. Archers. This is one in in the dark about. Games I brought in hour I never saw it so I'm not sure how I feel about it. I get the archers probably get through the first few turns but when mono red boards into big red it seems lackluster to me, maybe I'm just wrong and I will say my mono red games were close. If my hours were archers I still wouldn't have drawn them so I'll never know if they would have helped but drawing an hour in a few spots sure would have made life a little easier. Until they just topdecked another hazoret, it's just semantics at this point anyhow and the true key for any deck to beat mono red is to just win the die roll and answer whatever threats you can without getting rolled.
I always tend to value the 3rd chandra in any deck I am playing her in. That's possibly a mistake here I guess but when I board them in it usually means it's a match I need to see it in. I have stolen so many games with an unanswered Chandra it's hard to imagine shaving one.
That leads me to the only real problem I have with it, blossoming defense. When I played the deck it was so proactive I feel like picking a fight with defense is a bit out of place. I will admit I did not watch the GP and I certainly did not win it so my ramblings and critiques mean little. But most of the creatures are already set up to be 2 for 1's. I'm sure defense can win some games but against control I feel like I would almost rather play a Bestiary in the spot. We don't have any particularly crucial creatures to protect like a hostage taker, and something like bestiary creates value the entire time it's in play.
Anyways like I said I didn't win a GP or pptq or even 5-0 a league with the deck so my thoughts can be taken with a grain of salt. I'm just looking to promote some discussion to next level this thing and maybe get a W with it. The deck will likely get a little more respect than it has been lately, but I think it's hard to hate out a deck that really just relies on playing a sweet curve.
There are plenty of enchantments that are worth blowing up but not worth bringing in a specific card to answer it (ie Search for Azcanta). In this case, Thrashing Brontodon is perfect.
On top of that, a GPG is hard pressed to slip underneath a Brontodon over a Naturalize so you're not disincentivized to play Brontodon there.
On top of that, tokens decks take awhile to get their engine going. Might as well smack in for a few turns until your pop your Qasali Pridemage.
Plus, 3/4 isn't anything to sneeze at.
Recall the early days of KTK standard. Jeskai Tempo was king (until the PT). In that mirror, you couldn't tap out for a Mantis Rider or your opponent would Strike it, untap, and slam a Goblin Rabblemaster. Then, hey, you were behind and had to use your mana retroactive against their threats. Now, OG mod rujasu put me on Rw Aggro that crushed Jeskai. How did it do that? We tapped out for Hordeling Outburst, blanking their removal and their opportunity to yank tempo in their favor.
Ok, Pia Nalaar is not Hordeling Outburst. But sometimes it's close. In a format where a large portion of the field is trying to tempo your 3 drop with a 2 drop removal spell, Pia effects the board and blanks their Abrade. Obviously, the card doesn't scale that well but the premise is this -- with as many decks packing Abrade, Lightning Strike, Shock, and Magma Spray, you need 3 mana threats that don't trade down on mana.*
On the other hand, if you expect to fight against decks packing a bunch of fatties where Pia will get outclassed, maybe it's right to cut her -- but if you're playing against decks that will try to react to your threats, I cannot recommend her enough.
*I think it's worth mentioning here that Thrashing Brontodon also blanks this removal. But Pia is better against Red's go-wide draw, so take what you will...
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I cannot address your other points. You may be right. Give it a go and let us know your thoughts.
Couple changes on mine:
Replaced the Earthshakers with Fanatical Firebrand because I didn't have the playset of Earthshakers. These guys were MVPs. Helped take down pesky merfolk and some of the threats in red. Becomes a nice piece of removal that can do some damage for a turn of two.
I ran four Deathgorge instead of the Branchwalkers. They help stabilize by getting you that lifegain and can wreck opponents graveyard plans. They barley ever lasted more than a turn, so they soak up removal as well. Moved two Branchwalkers to the SB if I needed a quicker curve.
I also didn't have the green god, so instead I played a Chandra and two Dire fleet Daredevil (rolled 24 land). Daredevil was interesting, when it is good, it's really good, but there are times there is nothing to play from the opponents yard.
I don't get Struggle // Survive, at all. I understand it can remove larger threats, but so can our Glorybringers, but the Survive side doesn't seem great. I decided to put them in the SB and two Life Goes On in the main. Life Goes On was a game stealer against RW and Merf. You can let them chip in some damage for a couple turns, while removing their smaller creatures or setting up your board. Then when ready slam it down to go up 8. You can always do this with the Fanatical's. By this point you can start reigning down Glorybringers and Phoenix's without having to worry about your health. Hell of a card.
I need to work on the SB (built it around playing Approach because they are often played at my LGS) a little but here is what I ran.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rg-monster-mash-2/?cb=1520193073
When you cast both halves of Struggle // Survive in the same turn, you can get rid of The Scarab God. In our colors, there are few answers to TSG and none for Hazoret. Glorybringer can't really deal with TSG. Of course, we can just kill them before TSG becomes active.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
The more I look at Samut, the Tested the more I like it. Double strike on a Glorybringer or Phoenix can really end the game quickly, and if you can get it to 7 than you can bring out two Glorybringers. Could be worth a MB over Rhonas (I guess I'm just not crazy about Rhonas).
Insult // Injury and Heaven // Earth seem like interesting SB options too.
You need to get it off the table before they can untap and activate it. For example, if they untap and activate hitting a Glorybringer, you pretty much autolose.
It's worth noting that in metas where people don't have any money, Struggle // Survive is not necessary because no one has forked out for one of the best mythics in the format (understandable as not everyone has substantial expendable income, has ground their way into substantial store credit, or is a trading fiend, to make the pick-up) . However, if you go to a large event, the top tables will have a substantial amount of TSG making Struggle // Survive a necessity.
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Jadelight Ranger
4 Rekindling Pheonix
4 Gloeybringer
2 Carnage Tyrant
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Abrade
3 Struggle//Survive
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Sheltered Thicket
2 Hashep Oasis
7 Forest
8 Mountain
1 Carnage Tyrant
2 Deathgorge Scavanger
2 Atzocan Archer
2 Naturalize
2 Blossoming Defense
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Magma Spray
2 Chandra's Defeat
1 Walking Ballista
This is almost a card for card list of the r/g monsters deck that was in the magic online lists last Thursday. I was struggling with some card selections before seeing it and teetering towards the naya version to help deal with all of the Scarab Gods running rampant. I also realized how abysmal our grixis matchup is, and khenras don't really shine there. I wanted to try to go over the top of them, and ramping into turn 3 chandra/Phoenix, turn 4 gloeybringer, turn 5 carnage tyrant seemed incredibly strong, and proved to be so. I have some thoughts going forward on the deck but will give a brief report first.
Round 1 U/B midrange 2-1
Game 1 I was on the play and curved servant into Phoenix and glorybringer, ran away with the game and the only spell op cast was a commit.
(I don't recall every sideboard swap I made that day so I will just give very general descriptions or my games)
For game 2 I had put him on control, which I believe is reasonable as I saw none of the midrange creatures. As such I boarded out the majority of my removal keeping only an Abrade or 2 and my struggles. He ran away with siphoned and champions eventually in a very close game
Game 3 he started to run away again but I was able to stabilize the game state with a scavanger and a Carnage Tyrant followed up by a couple removal spells and fliers to finish the game off.
This was a tight match, though I do feel slightly favored against the blue black decks, it's the red ones we have a really tough time with
Round 2 Sultai constrictor 2-0
This is a tough one to navigate and I was dangerously close to losing both games as the hadana's climb(s) flipped incredibly fast both games. Game one he played a climb followed by a turn 4 hydra, swung in for a ton and I decided I had to race, but the only thing that saved me was dropping subsequent fliers the following turns. Same thing in game 2, only we had a ridiculous board state and I wasn't able to make a push until I had 3 Phoenix, a tyrant, some number of merfolk, a gloeybringer, and a very active Chandra in play.
Enchantment removal is almost useless here but you have to bring it in, field of ruin would be much better though. This match has to be played very tight and I will say I have been underestimating this deck.
Round 3 Grixis Mid 0-2
Game one he answered most of my threats 1 for 1, played a Scarab God on curve, I struggled and survived the SG but he cast another one turn 6 and took over the game.
Game I managed to stick a Chandra and the game got a little Grundy until the Scarab assault began. I struggle//survived 2 in a row and he cast a third one, lights out.
This match sucks, I didn't manage to see any of the good cards I wanted here at all, I feel like tyrant has to come down here early on, also a blossoming defense would have been great, I did board them in just didn't see them, nor did I see a scavenger to deal with his gy.
Round 4 u/r GPG 2-1
Game one I ended up in an odd position where I had to hold up Abrade and couldn't deploy any threats or deal with the value creatures so they just built up and I lost to small creature damage.
Game 2 I curved out with threats and removal eating up his GY with a Scavanger along the way for a win.
Game 3 got into a grind and had to hold up Abrade for a few turns, but luckily I was able to run out a few creatures first and finished the game in the air.
This could be a weird game to play out because they can win out of nowhere, hence the reason to hold up Abrade. I think it's correct to never Abrade the throne and just wait for the gift itself. 8+ artifact removal spells post board should swing this one our way most of the time.
Round 5 ID
Top 8 UB Control 2-0
I started off with a mull to 5 on the draw but was able to curve out and win anyways.
Game 2 I kept an explosive seven and dropped the unstoppable curve.
Top 4 grixis Mid 0-2
Same opponent I lost to in the Swiss.
Game 1 I got stuck on 3 lands and was out valued quickly.
Game 2 mulled to 5, got stuck on 3 lands again and was able to stick things out to about turn 9 and thought I still had a chance to turn it around when I had, i believe a Phoenix in play on an empty board, I was at around 3 love but OP topped a gearhulk to flashback a contempt. I was disappointed that the non games happened, you dont want to lose like that in the top 4 and this deck usually mulligans and draws fairly well, but nobody is immune to variance and i feel that i played both games correctly. I hope he won out his last match, as I took off to start my hour and a half drive home.
It was a good run and I can't complain. My biggest concern going forward is the grixis matchup and I wouldn't mind finding an edge there somehow. One thing I do have in mind is dropping ballista. This is not a clear call though. I did side it out almost every round, and the only 2 games I even cast it in were the 2 game 1's of my grixis matchups. Despite plunging a thopters or 2 they were really lackluster there, but that isn't really even a matchup I wanted it for to begin with. I loved the idea to begin with, as we can end up never missing land drops in most games and it's a nice mana sink in the late game while being a good early play against mono red. I do think for now though I would drop them, move the 2 Blossoming Defense to the main, and fill that flex spot in the side for something, anything to help fight grixis. I only cast 1 blossoming defense all day, but I had drawn exactly that 1, and there were a few times I really wished to see a copy in my hand.
Anyhow I'm going to get ready for another pptq next week. I'm on the fence about running this back with some small tweaks or just playing grixis myself. I do feel it's correct to either be able to beat that deck or play the better version of it yourself. I think mono red is going to be on the rise soon as well and that is also something to consider.