i think the 3 drop curve, 3 elvish champion is enough, elvish champion is double green and one colourless.
as for the r/g build, it has not make any appearence in major tourney, so maybe more people should try this build and make comparison between r/g and b/g
but as i have tried it for quite some time, my friends and i named the deck BLOOD ELVES, for those who play Warcraft III, hooray for Blood elves!!
You've almost convinced me that black is better than white, especially because I consider Profane Command to be a great card (should be run as more than a 1-of I think. The fear ability, probably paired with lifeloss just wins an aggro matchup, doesn't it?)
But one thing I can't agree with:
Black has all of the above, and does it even better
One card that made me consider white was Oblivion Ring, and he does something black just CAN'T DO. It removes artifacts, enchantments, and planeswalkers.
Okay, you can attack Planeswalkers, but there are some nasty artifacts and enchantments and dealing with a planeswalker without attacking is sometimes also great.
Just something to consider: White GIVES things black doesn't.
That said, I can stop this debate because I see Shriekmaw + Eyeblight's Ending + COMMAND is better than white.
I'd say no because I think you can only redirect damage. I'm not 100% certain, but I'm quite sure it works only with damage.
I don't know if I would run 4 commands, but 1 is too less I think. I'd run 2-3, but no Warhammers...I don't think they are needed to improve the aggro matchup. We are a fast and synergetic aggro deck and run removal. A card like Loxodon Warhammer however, is quite slow, it costs 3 + 3 = 6 mana before it does ANYTHING.
Now I still have things I don't like about it, as I believe now that those Prowess's should be main and Thorn isn't as good as I thought. Lets get some ideas rolling
Edit: Having trouble with the card tags, bah.
Just getting in on this before reading the other posts, so bear with me:
Treetop Village: I've dropped down to 2 in my deck, as I don't have the mana to bring them online early enough to be relevant for the most part, and the tap condition slows me when I draw them early-game.
Wren's Run Packmaster: This fellow doesn't look to be making the cut in the Top 8 lists. I can't say I'm surprised. I've started using him and I've not been unhappy, but I tend to agree with the Wizards' preview article that emphasised this as a casual card. Usually you just want to do more with 2G than drop a 2/2 deathtouch, and a 5/5 vanilla can be matched by a lot of other cards out there. One suggestion I made on the New Card forum recently was using Doran in this type of deck, and with some minor adjustment to the mana base he'd slide in as a strong replacement for this card.
Masked Admirers: This seems to be one of the surprises in the Top 8 decks - the only big Elf seeing any play. Looking at the decks, I'm still not altogether clear why, and for that matter I'm not altogether certain what the copies in my deck do to advance it. I see a build for these, which plays with Damnation and Prowess of the Fair and does the whole aggro-control thing, but it's not an Elf beatdown deck.
7 mana elves? Is this necessary? For one-drops I prefer Llanowar Mentor and Essence Warden, though the utility of the former has dropped since I moved away from a graveyard resource strategy.
Elvish Champion: Not warranted, I feel. You get enough +1/+1 bonuses with the Perfects - I'd rather drop something that hits for more. And in this environment, if you have forests to walk over, it's likely this is pumping someone else's Elves as well as your own, making his second ability essentially useless and hampering you in the first game if you come up against green.
Nath: I still can't find a place for this card in decks (which is a shame since I have two) - he's too expensive as a token generator and you aren't playing the discard to support him. Since your deck is low on control, you don't really want to be playing a 4/4 for 5 with a slow ability.
Garruk Wildspeaker: Mine never comes up often enough - add more.
Seal of Primordium: Odd choice to maindeck.
Profane Command: I'd question how you're using this - it looks like 'random insert popular rare' in this context. You have nothing that's valuable as reanimation fodder, which by itself reduces the card's utility by losing one of its major advantages.
Prowess of the Fair: Firstly, four is too many. Secondly, I don't like using cards like this passively - they just don't do anything very useful. If you're siding this in as a response to ***, chances are your opponent's Wrathing with something in mind to follow-up that four or five 1/1 Elves won't do a lot to stop. Cards like this work best when used offensively - run Damnation in this deck, and suddenly you'll be the one controlling the board with a small horde of creatures you're opponent isn't prepared for (and if you've played your cards right - literally - Garruk waiting to Overrun).
someone mentioned adding white for griffin guides. what confuses me is that so many people expressed that packmaster is bad becouse if you topdeck it after a wrath its useless. Since that is the major problem with the card, wouldn't that also be the same issue with griffin guide? it seems people care about this issue when concerning packmaster but don't when concerning griffin guide. someone will probably state that you get a 2/2 flyer if its in play before a wrath hits. packmaster functions similar. whats better, an early flyer that screws with the colors of the deck or a 5/5 that produces death touch guys that your opponent prob doesn't want to block. griffin guide is the better card ultimately but not to splash white.
someone mentioned adding white for griffin guides. what confuses me is that so many people expressed that packmaster is bad becouse if you topdeck it after a wrath its useless. Since that is the major problem with the card, wouldn't that also be the same issue with griffin guide? it seems people care about this issue when concerning packmaster but don't when concerning griffin guide. someone will probably state that you get a 2/2 flyer if its in play before a wrath hits. packmaster functions similar. whats better, an early flyer that screws with the colors of the deck or a 5/5 that produces death touch guys that your opponent prob doesn't want to block. griffin guide is the better card ultimately but not to splash white.
Typically the griffin guide would come down before the wrath, since it costs 3 mana and the average sweeper effect is 4, thus netting you a creature after wrath. Unless you play first, they wrath turn 4 and you have him to play... but no creature to play it on.
"The accumulation of their filth will foam up around their waists, and all the [prostitutes] and politicians will look up and shout, 'SAVE US.' and I'll look down and whisper,'No.'"
i only own one masked admirers and 2 elvish champions at the moment. is there anything that would be a good replacement for those cards. i have everything else thats being used in the deck
I like the Packmaster because you can do Turn 1 mana elf, Turn 2 Harbinger, Turn 3 champion the Harbinger with the Packmaster; as stated in Fire Fist's cool signature.
However, he is NOT a four-of. 2 are enough because you'll want to search for him with Harbinger. I think its great synergy with Harbinger is what makes him good enough to maindeck him twice: When the Packmaster dies, the Harbinger will come back and will get you a Masked Admirers, for example.
You might topdeck him. Yes. But you might also topdeck a removal when your opponent has no creatures out. So if you argue this way you also shouldn't play any removal.
elves is good because one damnation won't clear your board, u will always save creatures in ur hand, more over they are so big by them self, plus u have 7 tokens maker
I haven't seen much talk about Nath of the Gilt-leaf, but I think he deserves some discussion.
Let's take a look at the most popular removal spells in Standard right now:
Not a single one of these will take out Nath. I think he might at least deserve a sideboard spot, depending on your
local meta. Or at the very least, some discussion on these boards.
That being said, I'd like to post my current decklist for critique (ironically not including any Nath's).
Some explanation on my card choices (I'm sure its needed):
3x Masked Admirers: This is the best Elf in standard right now. Hands down. If you can't see why this card is so
useful in a deck that runs ~30 creatures and in a Standard environment full of ***s/DAMNs, then there is no hope for
you. As an aggro deck, you never want to overextend, and since even just a Llanowar Elves and an Admirers on the
table can be a threat (at 4 damage per turn) your opponent might be forced to ***. Then you just untap, play some 1
or 2 drop, and get your admirer right back. AND he cantrips every time you cast him, effectively keeping up your CA against control.
1x Llanowar Reborn: I know this lone land seems rather random, but I find it quite usefull. I get it opening hand
surprisingly often and I usually like to throw the counter at an early (or even late) played Vanquisher, effectively putting him out of blast range from Nameless Inversion and Incinerate.
2x Terror (and not Shriekmaw): We have plenty of creatures in this deck. The fact that he can double as a creature
later in the game isn't as usefull as the fact that Terror is an instant and there are a lot of powerful creatures with flash right now that just make Terror more potent.
2x Profane Command: This card is NOT just one of those "I'm really popular so put a couple of me in every deck" kind of cards. It's more of a "I'm an extremely versatile black card and should be in most decks that run black" kind of card. I've found it useful for reanimating Augurs, Vanquishers & Epochrasites (if they make you discard one), as a life-loss finisher, as (obviously) removal, and even its fear can be used to get that last bit of damage through to win you the game. This card is not popular because of some fad, its popular because its damn good. Use it.
4x Augur of Skulls: I find him much more versatile than Thoughtseize, but I see a lot of reasons for playing either
one. This, to me, is a more personal choice.
And now the big one that I'm sure everyone is WTFing about:
4x Epochrasite: I think this guy is highly underestimated. For some reason, he is unheard-of outside of U/B Mannequin, and I'm not sure why. He is GREAT anti-aggro, and he's easily tossed at a fatty as a chump blocker against control. My original decklist ran 4x Tarmogoyf instead of this little guy. But rather than purchase a 4th one (I only own 3) at a whopping $30.00+ I decided to test out 4x Epochrasite and found them to be a lot of more versatile and harder to remove. Of course the argument still stands, Tarmogoyf is a much larger beater, however he is extremely easy to take out. Between Epochrasite and Masked Admirers, this deck has much more room to overextend than people give it credit for. My play is often:
T1 Elves
T2 Epochrasite, swing for 1
T3 Masked Admirers, swing for 1
at which point they are forced to ***/DMN and I can easily recover.
But I'm not a genious or anything. I just really like to over-analyze a great deal before I open my mouth on these boards (in fact my last account got deactivated for inactivity, so I made this one). After rigorous amounts of testing (in a control heavy meta), these are the results I've come up with. I'm very interested in hearing everyone's criticism/comments.
2 Nath MD !!!! I always want to have a Nath in my hand he realy is awesome !! Treetop Vilage is a 4 of in my build ,like other pple said THEY WIN GAMES.Packmaster is 3x.I dont play Harbringers do,after ALOT of testing I removed them cuz Im testing a faster mode cuz 3 mana for a 1/2 isnt agro like .
I'm glad there are fellow Nath supporters! I really wanna try to work him into my build somehow, just as a 1 or 2 of. He just seems sooo worth it (especially agianst control). And I also agree with you COMPLETELY on the Treetop Villages. They are a must 4-of. I win with those damn dirty apes more often than I win with elves. They're just too good..
Although I disagree with you on the packmasters. I think there are much better choices in the deck than those. Packmaster is just a vanilla 5/5 and the wolves he makes don't even have deathtouch unless he's on the table (which he won't be for long). I don't feel like going back to check exactly who said this, but someone said "There are better things you can do with 3 mana than make a 2/2 deathtouch" and he's exactly right.
I haven't seen much talk about Nath of the Gilt-leaf, but I think he deserves some discussion.
Let's take a look at the most popular removal spells in Standard right now:
I could be wrong here, but...
I don't remember reading about any top 8 lists that were big on Sudden Death. The only deck that might play would be U/B Teachings, and they have Damnations for you to worry about anyways.
I'm talking about removal spells that are widely used.
[quote=Finrod;/comments/2381882]I like the Packmaster because you can do Turn 1 mana elf, Turn 2 Harbinger, Turn 3 champion the Harbinger with the Packmaster; as stated in Fire Fist's cool signature.
However, he is NOT a four-of. 2 are enough because you'll want to search for him with Harbinger. I think its great synergy with Harbinger is what makes him good enough to maindeck him twice: When the Packmaster dies, the Harbinger will come back and will get you a Masked Admirers, for example.
While it's a fun trick, any of the Harbingers can do it with their Champions, and only one of them is seeing play - and Mistblind Clique isn't being played in that combo. Elf tribal is overburdened with three-drops as it is and in any case doesn't desperately need them since they reliably play a four-drop on turn 3 and will usually want a Vanquisher on turn 2. Masked Admirers is a better fit for the four-slot because you can drop it before the Wrath and get it back afterwards, without losing a card as you do with the Packmaster and reducing the *** player's card advantage in the process.
While it's a fun trick, any of the Harbingers can do it with their Champions, and only one of them is seeing play - and Mistblind Clique isn't being played in that combo. Elf tribal is overburdened with three-drops as it is and in any case doesn't desperately need them since they reliably play a four-drop on turn 3 and will usually want a Vanquisher on turn 2. Masked Admirers is a better fit for the four-slot because you can drop it before the Wrath and get it back afterwards, without losing a card as you do with the Packmaster and reducing the *** player's card advantage in the process.
Phil
Thank you for explaining my point better than me =/
I run the Anthem. Only have 2 atm, so im using Champion as well. Will put him in the SB against Treefolk when i have 4 GA. Gaea's Anthem is awesome because of the synergy with MassRemoval & Treetop Village.
Someone mentioned a few threads back that he isn't something you'd wanna topdeck after MR, but with Treetops that isn't the case. Im more scared of topdecking a Llanowar elves or a Boreal Druid. Can't believe people run 4 of each, they aren't that useful are they?
Im also loving Nath, together with stupor he is quite decent, and as Funeral of Gods pointed out, he isn't that vurnerable against removal. Together with Liliana Vess your opponent will soon have zero cards in his/her hand, & forced to play whatever he/she draws. Her tutor-ability together with Masked isn't bad at all.
Epochrasite is an interesting choice, never considered it before.
Anthem does deserve some debate, however IMHO the champion is better for one simply reason; it can attack. Yes indeed, your Anthem will not fall to ***/DMN or any removal for that matter, but it also doesn't deal 2 damage per turn when you have no other creatures. Also, the Anthem is not an elf. Wouldn't it be terrible to not be able to reveal an elf for Wren's Run Vanquisher when you're holding nothing but a Gaea's Anthem and only 3 or 4 lands on the table?? Plus the fact that Elvish Champion gives you forestwalk will benefit you more than it will hurt you. Tarmorack is, needless to say, extremely popular right now, and they're gonna have forests..
I think Liliana Vess would be an interesting choice in this deck. I think everyone always assumes that Garruk Wildspeaker is the way to go, but in my testing B/G Elves played as Aggro-Control just as often as it did as Aggro, so I don't use him at all. Liliana might deserve a couple spots in the SB, not only for the discard against control but also for her tutoring. I just might have to proxy her up and test her out a bit...
I don't think Tarmorack is nor will be very popular, given it's inability to fight against any control deck that runs at least 4 spells to draw cards and 4 counters...
Also, I'm not sure about the most recent lists, but most don't run any forest at all, relying on Treetops, Pendelhaven, Llanowar Wastes and Gilt-Leaf Palace for green mana given that the only green spells they play are Tarmogoyf and Call of the Herd, making it only a splash.
So the forestwalk point is moot, givent hat Anthems makes you win the Goyf-on-Goyf war, makes you Treetops 4/4, takes your Vanquishers out of burn range and gives you a permanent boost to the power of your creatures.
Not having an elf to reveal for Vanquisher is not an option that early in the game, you're playing like 30 of them and not having one in hand by turn 2 means something is going VERY wrong...
Touche..
However, you've yet to counter my initial arguement for why Elvish Champion is a better choice than Anthem; It can attack. Yes, Anthem boosts your Apes, which the Champion doesn't, but with no other creatures on the table, the Anthem is not going to beat face for 2.
He keeps your opponents hand down, and not only that, it's random!
He also gives a 1/1 token for every card any opponent discards. If used together with stupors & Liliana, that's at least 2 cards/tokens every turn.
Honestly, the simple fact that Nath:
a. is an elf
b. is a 4/4 body
c. dodges almost all spot removal
is reason enough for him to be given consideration.
The fact that he forces your opponent to discard a card is really only valuble in the late-late game when your opponent has used most of their removal already and is basically topdecking answers. And the fact that he gets you a token for each card discarded is IMHO his least most valuble aspect.
just my 2 cents..
That is true, im having difficulties with getting Llanowars in my opening hand. Will try with 2-3 Druids.
IMHO, 4 Llanowar Elves and 3 Boreal Druid is the right call. However, in my current list, I play 3 Masked Admirers (most people seem to play 2 or none).
And with that many Admirers in my deck, the likelyhood of one being in the graveyard when I topdeck an Elves/Druid mid-to-late game, is rather likely, and rather favorable. So I play 4 of each in my deck.
Im not entirely convinced. You need 7 mana (1+2+4) if you want to play him the same turn. That's alot of mana.
You don't need to play him the same turn.. Just getting him back into your hand and playing him the following turn and cantripping is good enough.
[quote=Funeral of Gods;/comments/2382114]I haven't seen much talk about Nath of the Gilt-leaf, but I think he deserves some discussion.
Let's take a look at the most popular removal spells in Standard right now:
Not a single one of these will take out Nath. I think he might at least deserve a sideboard spot, depending on your
local meta. Or at the very least, some discussion on these boards.
I think deck strategies like yours give a good argument against him - he's unnecessary. A 4/4 whose biggest virtue is that he's hard to kill is not worth 5 mana in an aggro deck. He's readily chumpable, and while white may not be cropping up in many decks at present, his cherished resilience is worthless in the face of Obllvion Rings and Crib Swaps, which will be seen in numbers if white starts finding its way into the stronger builds and he's impotent in the face of the bounce portion of Cryptic Command (and indeed the counter portion, but then so's everything else). Plus he's as vulnerable as anything else to mass removal.
3x Masked Admirers: This is the best Elf in standard right now. Hands down. If you can't see why this card is so
useful in a deck that runs ~30 creatures and in a Standard environment full of ***s/DAMNs, then there is no hope for
you.
No question it's a good card; I'm just surprised to see it given top-tier status in aggro decks; one hardly needs Wrath of God to dispense with a T2 creature, and it slows you to recur it. I'm a huge fan of this card; I'm happy to have drawn three (I'd like four to make the playset, but I think 2 or 3 is the optimum number to play in any context, I'm just a sucker for recursion). I'm a little surprised no one's running with my idea of running it in aggro control to recover from your own Damnations (the great thing about running Damnation in your deck is that you come equipped with the tools to recover from someone else's, because you've already built the deck to recover from it).
As an aggro deck, you never want to overextend, and since even just a Llanowar Elves and an Admirers on the
table can be a threat (at 4 damage per turn) your opponent might be forced to ***.
Then again, he might not. A lowly Knight of Meadowgrain on defence can deter Masked Admirers for as long as need be (matching your Perfects with his Cenns), and that's just in a build as weak as a monowhite Kithkin deck. It's hard to sell a T2 creature on the notion that it forces a ***. It gives you card advantage that, say, Wren's Run Vanquisher lacks, but as any Gruul player will tell you, aggro has never been too hot on card advantage - it would rather win more quickly.
Though admittedly he plays well with Garruk's untap two lands ability.
2x Terror (and not Shriekmaw): We have plenty of creatures in this deck. The fact that he can double as a creature
later in the game isn't as usefull as the fact that Terror is an instant and there are a lot of powerful creatures with flash right now that just make Terror more potent.
I play Shriekmaw because I've found that his evasiveness often wins more games against other creature decks than my army of elves, but I agree he is less useful as removal here than he is in trick builds like Mannequin that can exploit the evoke mechanic more effectively.
2x Profane Command: This card is NOT just one of those "I'm really popular so put a couple of me in every deck" kind of cards. It's more of a "I'm an extremely versatile black card and should be in most decks that run black" kind of card. I've found it useful for reanimating Augurs, Vanquishers & Epochrasites (if they make you discard one), as a life-loss finisher, as (obviously) removal, and even its fear can be used to get that last bit of damage through to win you the game. This card is not popular because of some fad, its popular because its damn good. Use it.
Again, a card can be "damn good" and still not belong in the deck - see Shriekmaw above. The reanimation targets you mention are marginal: Epochrasite is conditional on your opponent having discard, Augur probably doesn't belong (see commentary below), and Vanquisher's done its job once the early game is over - and in any case you don't put a 4-of in a deck because you expect to need to reanimate it. It's slow removal for anything significant (and weren't you pooh-poohing Shriekmaw for being sorcery-speed removal?) and you already have plenty of removal. Fear is a less reliable and more conditional game-ender for a deck of this ilk than Garruk or Overrun. In the default 'game ender' configuration - fear + life loss - Profane Command will usually be more expensive and less effective than Overrun (as nice as Garruk is, I'm surprised not to see more people running the original - for starters, if you know you have an Overrun in hand you can concentrate on using Garruk to churn out Beasts), and at this stage you don't need either removal or reanimation. The early-game matchup of reanimation plus removal doesn't do a lot to help a deck that doesn't particularly rely on any given creature.
So you're including it in this deck for an overpriced X-spell effect to which you're tacking on something else you don't particularly need. None of which makes the card in any way bad; there are just other decks out there which play to its strengths in a way this one doesn't, and the build I was commenting on which only played one didn't seem to have much use for it. Had there been two in that deck it would at least have seemed a less random inclusion, as though some forethought had been put into why it was there.
4x Augur of Skulls: I find him much more versatile than Thoughtseize, but I see a lot of reasons for playing either
one. This, to me, is a more personal choice.
This is a deck without any other discard. Two cards of an opponent's choice by, at the earliest, turn 3 is a lot less useful than removing one key card from their hand on turn 1. Augur of Skulls is a card for discard-heavy strategies, something you play when you just want to empty the opponent's hand. Here it's out of place.
My original decklist ran 4x Tarmogoyf instead of this little guy. But rather than purchase a 4th one (I only own 3) at a whopping $30.00+ I decided to test out 4x Epochrasite and found them to be a lot of more versatile and harder to remove. Of course the argument still stands, Tarmogoyf is a much larger beater, however he is extremely easy to take out. Between Epochrasite and Masked Admirers, this deck has much more room to overextend than people give it credit for. My play is often:
T1 Elves
T2 Epochrasite, swing for 1
T3 Masked Admirers, swing for 1
at which point they are forced to ***/DMN and I can easily recover.
For a start, the Elf might not have lasted past turn 1. Secondly, the vulnerability of Masked Admirers has been mentioned, and Epochrasite isn't a threat if left alone. One Wall of Roots on the other side of the board, and all your hopes for a *** go up in smoke.
The problem I see here is that you're playing the wrong deck. You're playing the sideboard you want against mass removal, and depending on your opponent playing that removal when you want him to to screw his strategy. Ain't gonna happen. You've built an aggro deck that you're trying to play as control. The Epochrasite/Masked Admirers matchup has something going for it, but it needs Damnation - not from across the board, but for you to play it when it suits you. Your reanimated Epochrasite is going to be a while in coming, which doesn't play well to an aggro strategy - in theory you get it back and lose no card advantage, but there are more important things in Magic than keeping card advantage. That's ultimately just a means to the end of winning the game, and waiting three turns to get single card back is not a particularly effective way for a deck like this to win the game, without a way of surviving what gets thrown in your direction.
But I'm not a genious or anything.
So it seems.
I'll get my current decklist up as well, so everyone will be able to pick mine apart as comprehensively as I have this.
Defo.I'm only running 8 non creatures in my deck, including Anthems, so having a few sub-bar more won't change the effectivness of the deck.
4/3 Shriekmaws, 4/4 Treetops after Wrath, 4/4 Vanquisher and the like, even after the board has been wiped clean are too good to pass up, IMO, since most list aren't playing ONLY elves, but elves and other good creatures, pumping them all seems more relevant than having a 2/2 for 3.
You bring up good points about the Anthems, and the more I contemplate it, the more I want to test them. The main thing that catches my fancy is the Treetop Villages. That is a very popular card right now, and having yours as 4/4 when most others are 3/3 seems rather powerful. My list doesn't play Shriekmaw, however..so the Anthems won't help me there.. However it does bump my Epochrasite up to 2/2, which makes him seem like more of a threat, which in turn would make the opponent more likely to want to destroy him (which is what I want in the first place).
As for now I'll keep my list the way it is, but you've convinced me enough to test it out as a 4-of. I'll post back later with my findings.
Actually Masked Admirers is great since it gives massive card advantage. And the mana is typically split among two turns via 1 drop elf and two mana trigger and paying four next turn. Thats not even mentioning the cantrip bonus.
[EDIT] It took me so long to type a response, I wasn't just Sarnath'd but quadriple Sarnath'd.
OK, now the gloves come off. Magic is a game of entertainment. I purchase the game as a consumer with all the rights and abilities therein. If I do not like it, I am not required to try the new alternative (i.e. M10 rules changes). So stating, implying, or otherwise referencing to my opinion as less than whole is not wise.
It is an uneducated opinion, and you were quitting anyway, so WoTC, and none of us, care.
This is the kind of treatment you can look forward to here.
Okay, I'll say it straight up: This is not a great deck. It unashamedly plays full tribal theme at the expense of competitiveness and it wants to play tricks with Rings of Brighthearth when it should be winning the game. I'm also lacking sufficient copies of key cards (if anyone has three Wren's Run Vanquishers I'll be keen to trade for them), and some cards I could use are currently in transit between countries (my entire TS block collection, including my sole Gaea's Anthem, save a few cards - and I don't even have a full playset of Essence Wardens in that). No Damnations of my own means I'm doing something I criticised someone else for doing - playing a deck that's designed to exploit mass removal with controllish cards without the actual mass removal. Onto particular comments:
Treetop Village: As noted I removed two of these. Mostly I play games 'in-house', against people using my own decks, and since I'm depressingly short of mass removal that's not a feature of these matchups. This probably explains my relative lack of success with Treetop Village and Masked Admirers - still fully playable, but not 'wow' cards.
Essence Warden: Partly a relic from a time when I envisaged running a lifegain theme that exploited this card, the synergy between Elvish Eulogist, Llanowar Mentor, Masked Admirers and Lys Alana Scarblade, and random inclusions Profane Command and Lammastide Weave. The Eulogist proved the weakest link - there were just too many one-drops and even in a deck that plays to its strength, it's not terribly good. Essence Warden by contrast is an effective card in most matchups (for all that I cherish the memory of a game when I followed my opponent's Essence Warden with a Kavu Predator. His inexplicable unwillingness to lose the Warden meant it was 7/7 by the end of the game), and a comparatively slow-building deck like this can benefit from the lifegain.
Llanowar Mentor: It gives you extra mana producers as a substitute for Boreal Druid's place in the deck, but mostly it gives you extra tokens. Once the mana base has built, this plus one Perfect can start hurting pretty badly when your army is getting +4 power every turn. Not sure if this belongs in a competitive build, since it can't accelerate to a 3-drop early on, but it's the single fastest token generator there is and it's won me a good share of casual matchups.
Lys Alana Scarblade: Yes, it's a bad card. No, even with Rings of Brighthearth it's not terribly good. But it is a target for removal, and it gives me space to replace it with something better when I get the right cards.
Elvish Harbinger: Yes, I admit it. I do the Harbinger/Packmaster trick I've decried. But at least I admit I'm doing it in a firmly non-competitive deck.
Llanowar Sentinel: It's not to be sniffed at if you get to 5 mana and have a Perfect in play, let me tell you. It's bigger than those blasted wolf tokens people love so much and cheaper in multiples. A good follow-up to *** when you've got the mana base to support it. And it's just a card I've always liked and was thrilled to see back in X.
Wren's Run Packmaster: Yes, it has won me games, but mainly as a big bruiser in its own right. Its wolves have done nothing the supporting cast of Elves couldn't do, and it's a noticeable drawback that they can't be enhanced by Imperious Perfect. The supposed advantage that you don't need to play other cards because you can churn out wolves is, in most contexts, irrelevant. Mostly you have the extra cards to play and no one's stopping you from playing them. It's occasionally fun with Rings of Brighthearth, but with one in hand and one in library Llanowar Sentinel is a better bet for the same price, precisely because it does get the Perfect bonus.
Prowess of the Fair: Elves don't do sacrifice effects in Lorwyn, probably because it doesn't play well to their arrogant flavour - they deliberately don't even get the 'sacrifice to another card for an effect' card other colours' major tribes do, since Guardian of Cloverdell eats Kithkin. With Elvish Eulogist gone this is pretty much redundant, and is in mostly to hold the fort until extra Vanquishers get in. What the hell, I'll replace it with Oona's Prowler anyway.
Garruk: The one card with whom the Rings of Brighthearth trick may actually be competitive (two Beasts? Pah! What's wrong with a good ol' "all your creatures get +6/+6 and trample", I ask? Or is that trample-trample?) Sadly I only have one copy (of Garruk - I have a playset of Rings) and have never pulled said trick off with Garruk.
Overrun: This won competitive games back in Tempest. For all I know it did in Odyssey. It's won more games with this deck than any other card. I get to play it when Garruk dies or gets depleted. If I have it in hand I can use Garruk to make Beasts. If I don't I get to use him as Overrun 3, making it a fairly reliable proposition one way or the other. A card that might look redundant with Garruk in the game actually complements him and increases his versatility.
Rings of Brighthearth: Yes, they're slow. No, they don't give me more creatures than I'd normally get funnelling the mana I spent to cast them and activate them on other cards. But they are one of those cards that increases redundancy - and another reason this deck wants its own Damnations, since this plus Garruk or a post-Wrath Perfect/Mentor allows you to rebuild your army more rapidly. Yet another of those control cards that want this to be a control deck.
Okay, I'll say it straight up: This is not a great deck. It unashamedly plays full tribal theme at the expense of competitiveness and it wants to play tricks with Rings of Brighthearth when it should be winning the game. I'm also lacking sufficient copies of key cards (if anyone has three Wren's Run Vanquishers I'll be keen to trade for them), and some cards I could use are currently in transit between countries (my entire TS block collection, including my sole Gaea's Anthem, save a few cards - and I don't even have a full playset of Essence Wardens in that). No Damnations of my own means I'm doing something I criticised someone else for doing - playing a deck that's designed to exploit mass removal with controllish cards without the actual mass removal.
All I have to say, is why are you posting a deck in the competitive forums if you're saying yourself that it's not competitive? I can only assume you want it fixed, so here's what you do:
Find those cards that you need. Get them in that deck.
It's not just because of Damnation that champion is sub-par, it's that anybody who knows how to play against tribal also knows what to keep off of the board. Champion just dies too easily with all the removal in standard, whereas Anthem will pretty much always be giving your creatures +1/+1.
The fact that it hits Tarmogoyf, Garruk Wildspeaker, and Treetop Village is also a strong point to consider. Post wrath, yeah it stinks, but learn not to overextend. If you keep a creature in your hand after that, you're set. I'm not too fond of running a glorious anthem either, but if it works, it works.
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// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
6 [LRW] Swamp (3)
2 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
9 [9E] Forest (3)
4 [LRW] Gilt-Leaf Palace
// Creatures
2 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker
4 [CS] Boreal Druid
4 [10E] Llanowar Elves
2 [LRW] Wren's Run Packmaster
4 [LRW] Imperious Perfect
2 [LRW] Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
4 [10E] Elvish Champion
4 [LRW] Wren's Run Vanquisher
3 [LRW] Shriekmaw
2 [LRW] Masked Admirers
// Spells
3 [LRW] Prowess of the Fair
4 [LRW] Eyeblight's Ending
1 [LRW] Profane Command
as for the r/g build, it has not make any appearence in major tourney, so maybe more people should try this build and make comparison between r/g and b/g
but as i have tried it for quite some time, my friends and i named the deck BLOOD ELVES, for those who play Warcraft III, hooray for Blood elves!!
But one thing I can't agree with:
One card that made me consider white was Oblivion Ring, and he does something black just CAN'T DO. It removes artifacts, enchantments, and planeswalkers.
Okay, you can attack Planeswalkers, but there are some nasty artifacts and enchantments and dealing with a planeswalker without attacking is sometimes also great.
Just something to consider: White GIVES things black doesn't.
That said, I can stop this debate because I see Shriekmaw + Eyeblight's Ending + COMMAND is better than white.
I don't know if I would run 4 commands, but 1 is too less I think. I'd run 2-3, but no Warhammers...I don't think they are needed to improve the aggro matchup. We are a fast and synergetic aggro deck and run removal. A card like Loxodon Warhammer however, is quite slow, it costs 3 + 3 = 6 mana before it does ANYTHING.
Just getting in on this before reading the other posts, so bear with me:
Treetop Village: I've dropped down to 2 in my deck, as I don't have the mana to bring them online early enough to be relevant for the most part, and the tap condition slows me when I draw them early-game.
Wren's Run Packmaster: This fellow doesn't look to be making the cut in the Top 8 lists. I can't say I'm surprised. I've started using him and I've not been unhappy, but I tend to agree with the Wizards' preview article that emphasised this as a casual card. Usually you just want to do more with 2G than drop a 2/2 deathtouch, and a 5/5 vanilla can be matched by a lot of other cards out there. One suggestion I made on the New Card forum recently was using Doran in this type of deck, and with some minor adjustment to the mana base he'd slide in as a strong replacement for this card.
Masked Admirers: This seems to be one of the surprises in the Top 8 decks - the only big Elf seeing any play. Looking at the decks, I'm still not altogether clear why, and for that matter I'm not altogether certain what the copies in my deck do to advance it. I see a build for these, which plays with Damnation and Prowess of the Fair and does the whole aggro-control thing, but it's not an Elf beatdown deck.
7 mana elves? Is this necessary? For one-drops I prefer Llanowar Mentor and Essence Warden, though the utility of the former has dropped since I moved away from a graveyard resource strategy.
Elvish Champion: Not warranted, I feel. You get enough +1/+1 bonuses with the Perfects - I'd rather drop something that hits for more. And in this environment, if you have forests to walk over, it's likely this is pumping someone else's Elves as well as your own, making his second ability essentially useless and hampering you in the first game if you come up against green.
Nath: I still can't find a place for this card in decks (which is a shame since I have two) - he's too expensive as a token generator and you aren't playing the discard to support him. Since your deck is low on control, you don't really want to be playing a 4/4 for 5 with a slow ability.
Garruk Wildspeaker: Mine never comes up often enough - add more.
Seal of Primordium: Odd choice to maindeck.
Profane Command: I'd question how you're using this - it looks like 'random insert popular rare' in this context. You have nothing that's valuable as reanimation fodder, which by itself reduces the card's utility by losing one of its major advantages.
Prowess of the Fair: Firstly, four is too many. Secondly, I don't like using cards like this passively - they just don't do anything very useful. If you're siding this in as a response to ***, chances are your opponent's Wrathing with something in mind to follow-up that four or five 1/1 Elves won't do a lot to stop. Cards like this work best when used offensively - run Damnation in this deck, and suddenly you'll be the one controlling the board with a small horde of creatures you're opponent isn't prepared for (and if you've played your cards right - literally - Garruk waiting to Overrun).
Phil
Typically the griffin guide would come down before the wrath, since it costs 3 mana and the average sweeper effect is 4, thus netting you a creature after wrath. Unless you play first, they wrath turn 4 and you have him to play... but no creature to play it on.
However, he is NOT a four-of. 2 are enough because you'll want to search for him with Harbinger. I think its great synergy with Harbinger is what makes him good enough to maindeck him twice: When the Packmaster dies, the Harbinger will come back and will get you a Masked Admirers, for example.
You might topdeck him. Yes. But you might also topdeck a removal when your opponent has no creatures out. So if you argue this way you also shouldn't play any removal.
This is my current list of G/b elves:
3 Boreal Druid
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Elvish Harbinger
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Elvish Champion
2 Masked Admirers
2 Wren's Run Packmaster
3 Eyeblight's Ending
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Profane Command
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
2 Treetop Village
11 Forest
Deck with Garruk Wildspeaker+Prowess of the Fair+Treetop Village have cretures on table and can deal 8-12 damage right after ***.
Let's take a look at the most popular removal spells in Standard right now:
Not a single one of these will take out Nath. I think he might at least deserve a sideboard spot, depending on your
local meta. Or at the very least, some discussion on these boards.
That being said, I'd like to post my current decklist for critique (ironically not including any Nath's).
4 Boreal Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Epochrasite
4 Augur of Skulls
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
3 Masked Admirers
Removal/Utility:
4 Eyeblight's Ending
2 Terror
2 Profane Command
4 Treetop Village
4 Gilt-leaf Palace
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Llanowar Reborn
1 Pendelhaven
4 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Prowess of the Fair
3 Krosan Grip
3 Extirpate
3 Riftsweeper
2 Nameless Inversion
Some explanation on my card choices (I'm sure its needed):
3x Masked Admirers: This is the best Elf in standard right now. Hands down. If you can't see why this card is so
useful in a deck that runs ~30 creatures and in a Standard environment full of ***s/DAMNs, then there is no hope for
you. As an aggro deck, you never want to overextend, and since even just a Llanowar Elves and an Admirers on the
table can be a threat (at 4 damage per turn) your opponent might be forced to ***. Then you just untap, play some 1
or 2 drop, and get your admirer right back. AND he cantrips every time you cast him, effectively keeping up your CA against control.
1x Llanowar Reborn: I know this lone land seems rather random, but I find it quite usefull. I get it opening hand
surprisingly often and I usually like to throw the counter at an early (or even late) played Vanquisher, effectively putting him out of blast range from Nameless Inversion and Incinerate.
2x Terror (and not Shriekmaw): We have plenty of creatures in this deck. The fact that he can double as a creature
later in the game isn't as usefull as the fact that Terror is an instant and there are a lot of powerful creatures with flash right now that just make Terror more potent.
2x Profane Command: This card is NOT just one of those "I'm really popular so put a couple of me in every deck" kind of cards. It's more of a "I'm an extremely versatile black card and should be in most decks that run black" kind of card. I've found it useful for reanimating Augurs, Vanquishers & Epochrasites (if they make you discard one), as a life-loss finisher, as (obviously) removal, and even its fear can be used to get that last bit of damage through to win you the game. This card is not popular because of some fad, its popular because its damn good. Use it.
4x Augur of Skulls: I find him much more versatile than Thoughtseize, but I see a lot of reasons for playing either
one. This, to me, is a more personal choice.
And now the big one that I'm sure everyone is WTFing about:
4x Epochrasite: I think this guy is highly underestimated. For some reason, he is unheard-of outside of U/B Mannequin, and I'm not sure why. He is GREAT anti-aggro, and he's easily tossed at a fatty as a chump blocker against control. My original decklist ran 4x Tarmogoyf instead of this little guy. But rather than purchase a 4th one (I only own 3) at a whopping $30.00+ I decided to test out 4x Epochrasite and found them to be a lot of more versatile and harder to remove. Of course the argument still stands, Tarmogoyf is a much larger beater, however he is extremely easy to take out. Between Epochrasite and Masked Admirers, this deck has much more room to overextend than people give it credit for. My play is often:
T1 Elves
T2 Epochrasite, swing for 1
T3 Masked Admirers, swing for 1
at which point they are forced to ***/DMN and I can easily recover.
But I'm not a genious or anything. I just really like to over-analyze a great deal before I open my mouth on these boards (in fact my last account got deactivated for inactivity, so I made this one). After rigorous amounts of testing (in a control heavy meta), these are the results I've come up with. I'm very interested in hearing everyone's criticism/comments.
Draft My Cube!
I'm glad there are fellow Nath supporters! I really wanna try to work him into my build somehow, just as a 1 or 2 of. He just seems sooo worth it (especially agianst control). And I also agree with you COMPLETELY on the Treetop Villages. They are a must 4-of. I win with those damn dirty apes more often than I win with elves. They're just too good..
Although I disagree with you on the packmasters. I think there are much better choices in the deck than those. Packmaster is just a vanilla 5/5 and the wolves he makes don't even have deathtouch unless he's on the table (which he won't be for long). I don't feel like going back to check exactly who said this, but someone said "There are better things you can do with 3 mana than make a 2/2 deathtouch" and he's exactly right.
Draft My Cube!
what about sudden death?
Thanks Zaphod of High~Light Studios for my sweet SIG!
I could be wrong here, but...
I don't remember reading about any top 8 lists that were big on Sudden Death. The only deck that might play would be U/B Teachings, and they have Damnations for you to worry about anyways.
I'm talking about removal spells that are widely used.
Draft My Cube!
While it's a fun trick, any of the Harbingers can do it with their Champions, and only one of them is seeing play - and Mistblind Clique isn't being played in that combo. Elf tribal is overburdened with three-drops as it is and in any case doesn't desperately need them since they reliably play a four-drop on turn 3 and will usually want a Vanquisher on turn 2. Masked Admirers is a better fit for the four-slot because you can drop it before the Wrath and get it back afterwards, without losing a card as you do with the Packmaster and reducing the *** player's card advantage in the process.
Phil
Thank you for explaining my point better than me =/
Anthem does deserve some debate, however IMHO the champion is better for one simply reason; it can attack. Yes indeed, your Anthem will not fall to ***/DMN or any removal for that matter, but it also doesn't deal 2 damage per turn when you have no other creatures. Also, the Anthem is not an elf. Wouldn't it be terrible to not be able to reveal an elf for Wren's Run Vanquisher when you're holding nothing but a Gaea's Anthem and only 3 or 4 lands on the table?? Plus the fact that Elvish Champion gives you forestwalk will benefit you more than it will hurt you. Tarmorack is, needless to say, extremely popular right now, and they're gonna have forests..
I think Liliana Vess would be an interesting choice in this deck. I think everyone always assumes that Garruk Wildspeaker is the way to go, but in my testing B/G Elves played as Aggro-Control just as often as it did as Aggro, so I don't use him at all. Liliana might deserve a couple spots in the SB, not only for the discard against control but also for her tutoring. I just might have to proxy her up and test her out a bit...
Draft My Cube!
Llanowar Elves or Boreal Druid is EXACTLY what I want to topdeck post ***/DMN when I have Masked Admirers in the graveyard. =P
Touche..
However, you've yet to counter my initial arguement for why Elvish Champion is a better choice than Anthem; It can attack. Yes, Anthem boosts your Apes, which the Champion doesn't, but with no other creatures on the table, the Anthem is not going to beat face for 2.
Draft My Cube!
Honestly, the simple fact that Nath:
a. is an elf
b. is a 4/4 body
c. dodges almost all spot removal
is reason enough for him to be given consideration.
The fact that he forces your opponent to discard a card is really only valuble in the late-late game when your opponent has used most of their removal already and is basically topdecking answers. And the fact that he gets you a token for each card discarded is IMHO his least most valuble aspect.
just my 2 cents..
IMHO, 4 Llanowar Elves and 3 Boreal Druid is the right call. However, in my current list, I play 3 Masked Admirers (most people seem to play 2 or none).
And with that many Admirers in my deck, the likelyhood of one being in the graveyard when I topdeck an Elves/Druid mid-to-late game, is rather likely, and rather favorable. So I play 4 of each in my deck.
You don't need to play him the same turn.. Just getting him back into your hand and playing him the following turn and cantripping is good enough.
Draft My Cube!
I think deck strategies like yours give a good argument against him - he's unnecessary. A 4/4 whose biggest virtue is that he's hard to kill is not worth 5 mana in an aggro deck. He's readily chumpable, and while white may not be cropping up in many decks at present, his cherished resilience is worthless in the face of Obllvion Rings and Crib Swaps, which will be seen in numbers if white starts finding its way into the stronger builds and he's impotent in the face of the bounce portion of Cryptic Command (and indeed the counter portion, but then so's everything else). Plus he's as vulnerable as anything else to mass removal.
No question it's a good card; I'm just surprised to see it given top-tier status in aggro decks; one hardly needs Wrath of God to dispense with a T2 creature, and it slows you to recur it. I'm a huge fan of this card; I'm happy to have drawn three (I'd like four to make the playset, but I think 2 or 3 is the optimum number to play in any context, I'm just a sucker for recursion). I'm a little surprised no one's running with my idea of running it in aggro control to recover from your own Damnations (the great thing about running Damnation in your deck is that you come equipped with the tools to recover from someone else's, because you've already built the deck to recover from it).
Then again, he might not. A lowly Knight of Meadowgrain on defence can deter Masked Admirers for as long as need be (matching your Perfects with his Cenns), and that's just in a build as weak as a monowhite Kithkin deck. It's hard to sell a T2 creature on the notion that it forces a ***. It gives you card advantage that, say, Wren's Run Vanquisher lacks, but as any Gruul player will tell you, aggro has never been too hot on card advantage - it would rather win more quickly.
Though admittedly he plays well with Garruk's untap two lands ability.
I play Shriekmaw because I've found that his evasiveness often wins more games against other creature decks than my army of elves, but I agree he is less useful as removal here than he is in trick builds like Mannequin that can exploit the evoke mechanic more effectively.
Again, a card can be "damn good" and still not belong in the deck - see Shriekmaw above. The reanimation targets you mention are marginal: Epochrasite is conditional on your opponent having discard, Augur probably doesn't belong (see commentary below), and Vanquisher's done its job once the early game is over - and in any case you don't put a 4-of in a deck because you expect to need to reanimate it. It's slow removal for anything significant (and weren't you pooh-poohing Shriekmaw for being sorcery-speed removal?) and you already have plenty of removal. Fear is a less reliable and more conditional game-ender for a deck of this ilk than Garruk or Overrun. In the default 'game ender' configuration - fear + life loss - Profane Command will usually be more expensive and less effective than Overrun (as nice as Garruk is, I'm surprised not to see more people running the original - for starters, if you know you have an Overrun in hand you can concentrate on using Garruk to churn out Beasts), and at this stage you don't need either removal or reanimation. The early-game matchup of reanimation plus removal doesn't do a lot to help a deck that doesn't particularly rely on any given creature.
So you're including it in this deck for an overpriced X-spell effect to which you're tacking on something else you don't particularly need. None of which makes the card in any way bad; there are just other decks out there which play to its strengths in a way this one doesn't, and the build I was commenting on which only played one didn't seem to have much use for it. Had there been two in that deck it would at least have seemed a less random inclusion, as though some forethought had been put into why it was there.
This is a deck without any other discard. Two cards of an opponent's choice by, at the earliest, turn 3 is a lot less useful than removing one key card from their hand on turn 1. Augur of Skulls is a card for discard-heavy strategies, something you play when you just want to empty the opponent's hand. Here it's out of place.
For a start, the Elf might not have lasted past turn 1. Secondly, the vulnerability of Masked Admirers has been mentioned, and Epochrasite isn't a threat if left alone. One Wall of Roots on the other side of the board, and all your hopes for a *** go up in smoke.
The problem I see here is that you're playing the wrong deck. You're playing the sideboard you want against mass removal, and depending on your opponent playing that removal when you want him to to screw his strategy. Ain't gonna happen. You've built an aggro deck that you're trying to play as control. The Epochrasite/Masked Admirers matchup has something going for it, but it needs Damnation - not from across the board, but for you to play it when it suits you. Your reanimated Epochrasite is going to be a while in coming, which doesn't play well to an aggro strategy - in theory you get it back and lose no card advantage, but there are more important things in Magic than keeping card advantage. That's ultimately just a means to the end of winning the game, and waiting three turns to get single card back is not a particularly effective way for a deck like this to win the game, without a way of surviving what gets thrown in your direction.
So it seems.
I'll get my current decklist up as well, so everyone will be able to pick mine apart as comprehensively as I have this.
Phil
You bring up good points about the Anthems, and the more I contemplate it, the more I want to test them. The main thing that catches my fancy is the Treetop Villages. That is a very popular card right now, and having yours as 4/4 when most others are 3/3 seems rather powerful. My list doesn't play Shriekmaw, however..so the Anthems won't help me there.. However it does bump my Epochrasite up to 2/2, which makes him seem like more of a threat, which in turn would make the opponent more likely to want to destroy him (which is what I want in the first place).
As for now I'll keep my list the way it is, but you've convinced me enough to test it out as a 4-of. I'll post back later with my findings.
Draft My Cube!
[EDIT] It took me so long to type a response, I wasn't just Sarnath'd but quadriple Sarnath'd.
This is the kind of treatment you can look forward to here.
2 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Treetop Village
8 Forest
4 Swamp
2 Essence Warden
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Llanowar Mentor
1 Wren's Run Vanquisher
2 Lys Alana Scarblade
2 Elvish Harbinger
4 Imperious Perfect
3 Llanowar Sentinel
2 Masked Admirers
2 Wren's Run Packmaster
4 Shriekmaw
2 Prowess of the Fair
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Overrun
3 Rings of Brighthearth
Okay, I'll say it straight up: This is not a great deck. It unashamedly plays full tribal theme at the expense of competitiveness and it wants to play tricks with Rings of Brighthearth when it should be winning the game. I'm also lacking sufficient copies of key cards (if anyone has three Wren's Run Vanquishers I'll be keen to trade for them), and some cards I could use are currently in transit between countries (my entire TS block collection, including my sole Gaea's Anthem, save a few cards - and I don't even have a full playset of Essence Wardens in that). No Damnations of my own means I'm doing something I criticised someone else for doing - playing a deck that's designed to exploit mass removal with controllish cards without the actual mass removal. Onto particular comments:
Treetop Village: As noted I removed two of these. Mostly I play games 'in-house', against people using my own decks, and since I'm depressingly short of mass removal that's not a feature of these matchups. This probably explains my relative lack of success with Treetop Village and Masked Admirers - still fully playable, but not 'wow' cards.
Essence Warden: Partly a relic from a time when I envisaged running a lifegain theme that exploited this card, the synergy between Elvish Eulogist, Llanowar Mentor, Masked Admirers and Lys Alana Scarblade, and random inclusions Profane Command and Lammastide Weave. The Eulogist proved the weakest link - there were just too many one-drops and even in a deck that plays to its strength, it's not terribly good. Essence Warden by contrast is an effective card in most matchups (for all that I cherish the memory of a game when I followed my opponent's Essence Warden with a Kavu Predator. His inexplicable unwillingness to lose the Warden meant it was 7/7 by the end of the game), and a comparatively slow-building deck like this can benefit from the lifegain.
Llanowar Mentor: It gives you extra mana producers as a substitute for Boreal Druid's place in the deck, but mostly it gives you extra tokens. Once the mana base has built, this plus one Perfect can start hurting pretty badly when your army is getting +4 power every turn. Not sure if this belongs in a competitive build, since it can't accelerate to a 3-drop early on, but it's the single fastest token generator there is and it's won me a good share of casual matchups.
Lys Alana Scarblade: Yes, it's a bad card. No, even with Rings of Brighthearth it's not terribly good. But it is a target for removal, and it gives me space to replace it with something better when I get the right cards.
Elvish Harbinger: Yes, I admit it. I do the Harbinger/Packmaster trick I've decried. But at least I admit I'm doing it in a firmly non-competitive deck.
Llanowar Sentinel: It's not to be sniffed at if you get to 5 mana and have a Perfect in play, let me tell you. It's bigger than those blasted wolf tokens people love so much and cheaper in multiples. A good follow-up to *** when you've got the mana base to support it. And it's just a card I've always liked and was thrilled to see back in X.
Wren's Run Packmaster: Yes, it has won me games, but mainly as a big bruiser in its own right. Its wolves have done nothing the supporting cast of Elves couldn't do, and it's a noticeable drawback that they can't be enhanced by Imperious Perfect. The supposed advantage that you don't need to play other cards because you can churn out wolves is, in most contexts, irrelevant. Mostly you have the extra cards to play and no one's stopping you from playing them. It's occasionally fun with Rings of Brighthearth, but with one in hand and one in library Llanowar Sentinel is a better bet for the same price, precisely because it does get the Perfect bonus.
Prowess of the Fair: Elves don't do sacrifice effects in Lorwyn, probably because it doesn't play well to their arrogant flavour - they deliberately don't even get the 'sacrifice to another card for an effect' card other colours' major tribes do, since Guardian of Cloverdell eats Kithkin. With Elvish Eulogist gone this is pretty much redundant, and is in mostly to hold the fort until extra Vanquishers get in. What the hell, I'll replace it with Oona's Prowler anyway.
Garruk: The one card with whom the Rings of Brighthearth trick may actually be competitive (two Beasts? Pah! What's wrong with a good ol' "all your creatures get +6/+6 and trample", I ask? Or is that trample-trample?) Sadly I only have one copy (of Garruk - I have a playset of Rings) and have never pulled said trick off with Garruk.
Overrun: This won competitive games back in Tempest. For all I know it did in Odyssey. It's won more games with this deck than any other card. I get to play it when Garruk dies or gets depleted. If I have it in hand I can use Garruk to make Beasts. If I don't I get to use him as Overrun 3, making it a fairly reliable proposition one way or the other. A card that might look redundant with Garruk in the game actually complements him and increases his versatility.
Rings of Brighthearth: Yes, they're slow. No, they don't give me more creatures than I'd normally get funnelling the mana I spent to cast them and activate them on other cards. But they are one of those cards that increases redundancy - and another reason this deck wants its own Damnations, since this plus Garruk or a post-Wrath Perfect/Mentor allows you to rebuild your army more rapidly. Yet another of those control cards that want this to be a control deck.
Phil
All I have to say, is why are you posting a deck in the competitive forums if you're saying yourself that it's not competitive? I can only assume you want it fixed, so here's what you do:
Find those cards that you need. Get them in that deck.
+3 Wren's Run Vanquisher
+3 Gaea's Anthem
+4 Tarmogoyf
+1 Garruk Wildspeaker
-2 Lys Alana Scarblade
-2 Elvish Harbinger
-2 Overrun
-2 Essence Warden
-3 Rings of Brighthearth
That's probably going to make it more competitive.
As for the Gaea's Anthem Vs. Elvish Champion debate, you obviously know my verdict, and here's why:
etc.
It's not just because of Damnation that champion is sub-par, it's that anybody who knows how to play against tribal also knows what to keep off of the board. Champion just dies too easily with all the removal in standard, whereas Anthem will pretty much always be giving your creatures +1/+1.
The fact that it hits Tarmogoyf, Garruk Wildspeaker, and Treetop Village is also a strong point to consider. Post wrath, yeah it stinks, but learn not to overextend. If you keep a creature in your hand after that, you're set. I'm not too fond of running a glorious anthem either, but if it works, it works.