@ Mutavault players: How has the vault been going for you guys? I seem to rather have 4 desert to slow down faeries.
there's significantly more merfolk in my meta (with fae almost a no-show, until Hollywood anyway), therefore vault is superior at blocking fish (and getting a boost from LoA!). Plus it's better with noobhammer than desert is. totally meta dependent though.
Next time you post popular opinions, please word them in such a way that they're not infractable. Someone may be widely thought to be the dullest tool in the shed, but you can't publicly call him that, which as a mod I can neither confirm nor deny that I fervently believe he's a tool.
This has won a few tournaments, it has also qualified people for regionals. (see topic from my sig) and I've loved it all the way.
Its not so much Mono black control, I didn't set off to build that in the first place but it does have that tone. It is more mid-range and handles the meta a lot better.
Neddle: No one is expecting main deck, its good against man lands and Garruk´s like. And keep beating the opponent.
Extirpate: Everyone here looks like agree that, this is the card that wins aggainst faries, so, why not 1 main deck.
Shatter: Like a lot. Insane aggainst Ramps! Even faries if at the other side of the table hasn´t have a pilot.
Shriekmaw: Ok, lost the instant speed to kill man lands, but on early game is a edict and on late game is 1 for 2 or even a Warhameered fear!
Warhammer: Finisher anyone?
SuddenSpoiling: Saves our B@#!
Side is almost same, the only thing that I think is bottle is a good blocker, gives u 3 life and not going to be shattered by Smash to Smithereens
And the single corrupt is because I like it so much. Lots of time is my finisher, simple can´t play without at least one.
So Im playing a different version this sunday, with 3 phyrexian Iroon foot and 2 Corrupts main deck. No sure about 1 silver bullet. Slaughter Pact or Neddle.
@SatanicWarmaster; This deck is by far one of the best in the formats. And I know that is a bold statement but the fact is that black has one of the best card pools in this format right now with cards that are versatile and powerful. Even still this deck requires alot of play skill and general knowledge. It has a very decent matchup with all the top teir decks and the worst matchup by far is the new GW Hybrid Aggro (Persist Aggro) and G/w Ramp varients because of the Pro Black creatures and the Sheild of the Oversoul enchantment.
Also this is one of the most expensive decks to build so if your just getting into the game I recommend trying the Elf-Ball deck.
The must haves in the deck right now are;
Bitterblossom est 30$/per
Korlash est 5-7$/per
Demigod est 10$/per
Thoughtseize est 40$/per
Extirpate est 15$/per
Sudden Spoiling est 4-5$/per
Damnation est 20$/per
Profane Command est 8$/per
Loxodon Warhammer est 4-5$/per
Dusk Urchins est 10$/per
So this isn't a budget deck and you will have to invest alot of time into the deck, so in reality this may not be the most expensive deck but even the budget replacements for certain cards IE Graveborn Muse for Urchins are going to cost you some money.
Also a little tip for everyone; The right time to Extirpate is ALWAYS at the end of the opponents Draw Step UNLESS nessesity demands a different play and if anyone can tell me why then I give you props.
Bitterblossom est 30$/per
Korlash est 5-7$/per
Demigod est 10$/per
Thoughtseize est 40$/per
Extirpate est 15$/per
Sudden Spoiling est 4-5$/per
Damnation est 20$/per
Profane Command est 8$/per
Loxodon Warhammer est 4-5$/per
Dusk Urchins est 10$/per
Uh, most of those cards aren't worth nearly that much.
Thoughtseize is 25 at most, more like 20
Sudden Spoiling is ~1-3 dollars
Warhammer is ~2-3 dollars
I don't think Demigod and Urchins have hit 10 yet, more like 8 each.
Damnation should be more like 15.
I don't know if you are just using prices in your area or if you were going off the top of your head, but I haven't seen them that high anywhere, even StarCityGames, and they are usually at the high end/pushing ridiculous prices.
I was just going with inflation and estimates. Notice I had the est before every price because I got all the cards within two weeks of release to avoid inflated pricing ala Tarmogoyf phenom.
Yeah, this deck is not one to build if you want to get into the format with it. It is somewhat expensive in relative terms. But most people already have the cards so there is almost no sweat in it being popular among people. This deck's MU's are getting slightly better as people drift away from reveillark. As we lose most to fae, we just have to make sure we own elves...
It really depends on how many extirpates you can get on them. They could be beating you dead by the time you get the extirpates out. The most fundamental card in that MU would be Bitterawesome. Extirpates do a lot of good though.
@DarksteelPuppy; What he means by GW is the Persist Aggro with Finks, Liege, Cavaliers etc etc and the Ramp varient with Oversouls. Those are literally the worst MUs for MBC right now and the Faerie MU is very overrated right now because most of us have by now got a strong game plan against them and have gained some general experience against the deck and we have the cards in our card pool to handle them mostly by using Thoughtseize and Extipate against their Bitterawesomes and Counterspells namely Cryptic Command because if they play or the other any time during the course of the game against any deck they are probably going to win.
So without bitterawesome game 1, we don't have much of a chance right? I like doing thoughtseize and extirpate also for that MU, but sometimes don't get to get a win off of that.
I usually side in bottle gnomes against stuff that have pro black, the least thing I could do. I don't think there is much that MBC can do against persist other than everlasting torment.
Also a little tip for everyone; The right time to Extirpate is ALWAYS at the end of the opponents Draw Step UNLESS nessesity demands a different play and if anyone can tell me why then I give you props.
Well, that isn't ALWAYS true, but I get what you want - more cards in their hand, and try to strip from their hand whatever they just drew (and after Ancestral Visions resolves... eh).
I'd say that those are decent metagame choices for the SB as Corrosive Mentor definately makes your BB tokens more effective against almost every deck but 3 mana is definately a drawback to the overall power of the card since we really don't run that many creatures and some of us like to run artifact creatures as a backup plan against Pro Black.
I normally don't have much of a problem with the Fish MU because I like to run 3-4 Damnation and I normally start with 1 in hand or the appropriate Sudden Spell and thier clock normally runs for a turn 5 kill and they are disruptable if they are trying to race against us because they have to tap out on their turn and I make sure I run plenty of instant speed removal like Terror and the only time I really cringe is when they play an Inkfathom Infiltraitor and they have two lords already in play and my Damns are at the bottom of my library and I have not seen 1 in the first 5 turns.
Demigod of Revenge is very relevant to the Fish matchup as well since I have not seen any Fish players smart enough to splash black for Bitterblossom to improve their Faerie matchup and cause splash hate against us.
Worst MU is merfolks.
It has better card drawing, better creatures/spells synergy, better manabase, same and better counters than faeries. Sure it's a ground army, doesn't play EOT and doesn't have BB, but has a better, better clock than faeries, and in the meantime we are desperately blocking/killing their creatures searching for a damnation or a sudden spell they simply kill us in few turns.
Demigod of Revenge is very relevant to the Fish matchup as well since I have not seen any Fish players smart enough to splash black for Bitterblossom to improve their Faerie matchup and cause splash hate against us.
Having lost several times to fish, I need to bring up a card some builds are running: mirrorweave. This card is just ridiculous for them. Side out all but 1 demigod if you see them playing this. So they're forced to copy their lords (which is still very bad for us). They also can force an island then send in everyone unblocked and 'weave them into whoever's biggest, etc. instant-speed kill is a must. I've learned the hard way to wait for lords to spend them on. Bait out their counters with damnations then pinpoint nuke the greatest threats, and hope BB tokens stall them enough to find enough answers - 'hammer helps, as does tendrils. We may want to take another look at blue-hosers...
Next time you post popular opinions, please word them in such a way that they're not infractable. Someone may be widely thought to be the dullest tool in the shed, but you can't publicly call him that, which as a mod I can neither confirm nor deny that I fervently believe he's a tool.
here is something to think about i fought some one today who had Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and this card is pretty good if you have nameless inversion in your graveyard you can play it over and over again as long as you have mana cause nameless inversion has all creature types
pretty good combo you guys should check it out
he played nameless inversion killed one of my monsters it went into the graveyard played it again and he did this one more time killing three of my monsters
here is something to think about i fought some one today who had Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and this card is pretty good if you have nameless inversion in your graveyard you can play it over and over again as long as you have mana cause nameless inversion has all creature types
pretty good combo you guys should check it out
he played nameless inversion killed one of my monsters it went into the graveyard played it again and he did this one more time killing three of my monsters
The main thing problem is getting Haakon into the graveyard first, and two means are Oona's Prowler and Smallpox. I'm not sure about what others you could use, but Oona's Prowler helps you get Demigods into the Graveyard, which can be useful in the right situations. And this allows Liege's to be used over and over again as well as the BB Knight.
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Found myself agreeing with most of this post about Cavern of souls and countermagic.
What does the mirror look like for this deck? What common SB cards are geared toward the mirror if any?
Also, I've been playing pretty much since the game came out. But any tournaments (always pretty small) I ever went to were non sanctioned, non formatted, just play with whatever cards you have. I didn't even know formats and sanctioned tournys existed till recently lol. (being poor is like living in a cave) Anyways, I want to get into the tourny realm, and I don't want to play faeries. I'm not poor and I could afford to make this deck.
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INTO THE RAY OF THE SUN, MARCH OUR HERO, HUNTING THE DARKLORD, REBORN FROM THE BLOOD OF HIS GOD... HIS GOD... THE WARMASTER KRON.
RIDE FOR THE FALL OF HIS POWER FIGHTING THE STORM, THE ROAR OF THE THUNDER, ALLY OF THE SUN AND THE MOON... GREAT SWORDMASTER RULE!
I really don;t think this deck is popular enough to talk about mirrors haha, from I can see though, korlash+hammer will win everytime, so the battle becomes who can stick a korlash i think.
Fish or Merfolk is one of my fav matchups. They tap out on their turn, allowing me to play whatever spells i want turns 1-4. Also having so much instant removal in Tenrals and sudden death totally wrecks the board. This MU is sumthing im not concerend at all. Im yet to lose to them unless i get mana screwed.
And also i usually respond to mirrorweave by killing the target, so its usually a 2-1. Also i stall with bb and thoughtsieze intill i resolve one of my bombs and take them out. Unlike fae their creatures dont have flash, and Their "clock" is slow - their lords cost 2 and 3, and dont really have evasion like Shroud... They are all very killable, which MBC has no problem with.
In the mirror i use Pithing needles, extiraptes, thoughtseize, STUPOR deff. This deck is the way to go right now, even to i do lose to STUPID teir 2 decks from time to time, but Tier 1 is mostly been good MU for me.
Gw persist is a pain, but i think sudden spoiling and sudden deaths solve this match up. Damnation helps as well. If there is Gw in ur meta i would suggest Epochrosite to stall the Pro black creatures, and give you time to find answers.
Im currently testing 1 sudden spoiling MD as a "silver bullet" or whatever yall call it for BTQ. Its been working pretty well, specially when Fae is in control, but they let me resolve BTQ thinking they gonna counter whatever i get... Just to see i got a split secong spell that WINS me the game, since i attack with fliers FTW =)
Gw persist is a pain, but i think sudden spoiling and sudden deaths solve this match up. Damnation helps as well. If there is Gw in ur meta i would suggest Epochrosite to stall the Pro black creatures, and give you time to find answers.
The thing about Epochrosite is that once he chumps, he abandons you for 4 turns.
I think I might try to float 3 Trip Noose through the deck. Its pretty cheap at 2cc vs Manipulator at 4cc, so see one in the opening hand would actually be a relief I would think.
Turn 4 Oversoul, pfftt, so what?
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Thanks to spiderboy4 and [High~Light Studios] for the AMAZING sig and avatar!
there's significantly more merfolk in my meta (with fae almost a no-show, until Hollywood anyway), therefore vault is superior at blocking fish (and getting a boost from LoA!). Plus it's better with noobhammer than desert is. totally meta dependent though.
decks:
EDH - Riku, Xiahou, Konda, Azusa
modern - Past in Flames, Onmi-show
vintage - Drains, Oath
coup de grace:
"Redcap Snap"
4 Murderous Redcap
4 Dusk Urchins
3 Epchoriste
4 Terror
3 Tendrils of Corruption
3 Damnation
4 Bitterblossom
3 Beseech The Queen
2 Loxodon Warhammer
2 Profane Command
18 Swamp
1 Pendalhaven
2 Urborg
3 Sudden Spoil
3 Extirpate
4 Thoughtseize
3 Dragon Claw
2 Puppeteer Clique
Sudden Spoil
Extirpate
Thoughtseize
Beats faeries, I've done it everytime so far.
Worst record I've had with this deck 3-1-1.
This has won a few tournaments, it has also qualified people for regionals. (see topic from my sig) and I've loved it all the way.
Its not so much Mono black control, I didn't set off to build that in the first place but it does have that tone. It is more mid-range and handles the meta a lot better.
Its looks like a really good list, but what about play silver bullets as u playing 3 BtQ?
And build something like:
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Desert
3 Leechridden Swamp
15 Swamp
// Creatures 12
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
4 Dusk Urchins
4 Demigod of Revenge
// Spells 18
3 Damnation
3 Bitterblossom
3 Beseech the Queen
3 Sudden Death
2 Terror
2 Profane Command
2 Tendrils of Corruption
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Mind Shatter
1 Pithing Neddle
1 Extirpate
1 Sudden Spoiling
1 Shriekmaw
3 Extirpate
4 Thoughtseize
3 Bottle Gnomes
1 Damnation
2 Sudden Spoiling
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Corrupt
Neddle: No one is expecting main deck, its good against man lands and Garruk´s like. And keep beating the opponent.
Extirpate: Everyone here looks like agree that, this is the card that wins aggainst faries, so, why not 1 main deck.
Shatter: Like a lot. Insane aggainst Ramps! Even faries if at the other side of the table hasn´t have a pilot.
Shriekmaw: Ok, lost the instant speed to kill man lands, but on early game is a edict and on late game is 1 for 2 or even a Warhameered fear!
Warhammer: Finisher anyone?
SuddenSpoiling: Saves our B@#!
Side is almost same, the only thing that I think is bottle is a good blocker, gives u 3 life and not going to be shattered by Smash to Smithereens
And the single corrupt is because I like it so much. Lots of time is my finisher, simple can´t play without at least one.
So Im playing a different version this sunday, with 3 phyrexian Iroon foot and 2 Corrupts main deck. No sure about 1 silver bullet. Slaughter Pact or Neddle.
Wish me luck!
Also this is one of the most expensive decks to build so if your just getting into the game I recommend trying the Elf-Ball deck.
The must haves in the deck right now are;
Bitterblossom est 30$/per
Korlash est 5-7$/per
Demigod est 10$/per
Thoughtseize est 40$/per
Extirpate est 15$/per
Sudden Spoiling est 4-5$/per
Damnation est 20$/per
Profane Command est 8$/per
Loxodon Warhammer est 4-5$/per
Dusk Urchins est 10$/per
So this isn't a budget deck and you will have to invest alot of time into the deck, so in reality this may not be the most expensive deck but even the budget replacements for certain cards IE Graveborn Muse for Urchins are going to cost you some money.
Also a little tip for everyone; The right time to Extirpate is ALWAYS at the end of the opponents Draw Step UNLESS nessesity demands a different play and if anyone can tell me why then I give you props.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
Uh, most of those cards aren't worth nearly that much.
Thoughtseize is 25 at most, more like 20
Sudden Spoiling is ~1-3 dollars
Warhammer is ~2-3 dollars
I don't think Demigod and Urchins have hit 10 yet, more like 8 each.
Damnation should be more like 15.
I don't know if you are just using prices in your area or if you were going off the top of your head, but I haven't seen them that high anywhere, even StarCityGames, and they are usually at the high end/pushing ridiculous prices.
What?? Last I checked, they're $20 each.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
Awesome banner and avatar thanks to spiderboy4 from highlight studios!
I hear.
I touch.
I speak.
Do you?
What do you mean by GW? Ramp or Elf aggro?
Awesome banner and avatar thanks to spiderboy4 from highlight studios!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
I usually side in bottle gnomes against stuff that have pro black, the least thing I could do. I don't think there is much that MBC can do against persist other than everlasting torment.
Awesome banner and avatar thanks to spiderboy4 from highlight studios!
Well, that isn't ALWAYS true, but I get what you want - more cards in their hand, and try to strip from their hand whatever they just drew (and after Ancestral Visions resolves... eh).
Against persist, I suggest Corrosive Mentor. But Bitterblossom is VERY helpful (as is Thoughtseize).
Scar could be an interesting option as well.
Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
I normally don't have much of a problem with the Fish MU because I like to run 3-4 Damnation and I normally start with 1 in hand or the appropriate Sudden Spell and thier clock normally runs for a turn 5 kill and they are disruptable if they are trying to race against us because they have to tap out on their turn and I make sure I run plenty of instant speed removal like Terror and the only time I really cringe is when they play an Inkfathom Infiltraitor and they have two lords already in play and my Damns are at the bottom of my library and I have not seen 1 in the first 5 turns.
Demigod of Revenge is very relevant to the Fish matchup as well since I have not seen any Fish players smart enough to splash black for Bitterblossom to improve their Faerie matchup and cause splash hate against us.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
Having lost several times to fish, I need to bring up a card some builds are running: mirrorweave. This card is just ridiculous for them. Side out all but 1 demigod if you see them playing this. So they're forced to copy their lords (which is still very bad for us). They also can force an island then send in everyone unblocked and 'weave them into whoever's biggest, etc. instant-speed kill is a must. I've learned the hard way to wait for lords to spend them on. Bait out their counters with damnations then pinpoint nuke the greatest threats, and hope BB tokens stall them enough to find enough answers - 'hammer helps, as does tendrils. We may want to take another look at blue-hosers...
decks:
EDH - Riku, Xiahou, Konda, Azusa
modern - Past in Flames, Onmi-show
vintage - Drains, Oath
coup de grace:
pretty good combo you guys should check it out
he played nameless inversion killed one of my monsters it went into the graveyard played it again and he did this one more time killing three of my monsters
The main thing problem is getting Haakon into the graveyard first, and two means are Oona's Prowler and Smallpox. I'm not sure about what others you could use, but Oona's Prowler helps you get Demigods into the Graveyard, which can be useful in the right situations. And this allows Liege's to be used over and over again as well as the BB Knight.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10332184&postcount=124
Also, I've been playing pretty much since the game came out. But any tournaments (always pretty small) I ever went to were non sanctioned, non formatted, just play with whatever cards you have. I didn't even know formats and sanctioned tournys existed till recently lol. (being poor is like living in a cave) Anyways, I want to get into the tourny realm, and I don't want to play faeries. I'm not poor and I could afford to make this deck.
RIDE FOR THE FALL OF HIS POWER FIGHTING THE STORM, THE ROAR OF THE THUNDER, ALLY OF THE SUN AND THE MOON... GREAT SWORDMASTER RULE!
Awesome banner and avatar thanks to spiderboy4 from highlight studios!
And also i usually respond to mirrorweave by killing the target, so its usually a 2-1. Also i stall with bb and thoughtsieze intill i resolve one of my bombs and take them out. Unlike fae their creatures dont have flash, and Their "clock" is slow - their lords cost 2 and 3, and dont really have evasion like Shroud... They are all very killable, which MBC has no problem with.
In the mirror i use Pithing needles, extiraptes, thoughtseize, STUPOR deff. This deck is the way to go right now, even to i do lose to STUPID teir 2 decks from time to time, but Tier 1 is mostly been good MU for me.
Gw persist is a pain, but i think sudden spoiling and sudden deaths solve this match up. Damnation helps as well. If there is Gw in ur meta i would suggest Epochrosite to stall the Pro black creatures, and give you time to find answers.
Im currently testing 1 sudden spoiling MD as a "silver bullet" or whatever yall call it for BTQ. Its been working pretty well, specially when Fae is in control, but they let me resolve BTQ thinking they gonna counter whatever i get... Just to see i got a split secong spell that WINS me the game, since i attack with fliers FTW =)
I hear.
I touch.
I speak.
Do you?
The thing about Epochrosite is that once he chumps, he abandons you for 4 turns.
I think I might try to float 3 Trip Noose through the deck. Its pretty cheap at 2cc vs Manipulator at 4cc, so see one in the opening hand would actually be a relief I would think.
Turn 4 Oversoul, pfftt, so what?