So what list did you test exacly? What were your results? I cant really see this deck as being the weakest... but every1 has their own testing results, i just wanna see some facts to back up ur "MBC sux right now" statements.
I never said it sucks. I love mbc and I want to play it bad. I just dont think it can get there without a splash and if we splash the deck completely changes. We have to take out tendrils corrupt and korlash. I'm gonna explore the splash in great detail in the coming weeks. Korlash struggled against all those decks above I played 5 games each against them all. Only one it went 3-2 against was big mana. My list is almost exactly like talons.
@dood - faeries is still the deck to beat. I dont think theres a single deck in the format that can blow it out. People say rdw. But it doesn't blow it out. RDW went 3-2 against it in very close games. If faeries is played by a good player its an absolute strong deck. The only deck in the frmat that I see giving it a run is elf ball. Everyone has this conceptin that the way to beat faeries is good sb tech and spot removal and its just not. Very fast pressure and a clock is how you beat it. Fast clock and aggression aren't in this deck...
I'm probably gonna run my gw aggro deck I'm gonna post a list a little later ill link to it. It too struggles against faeries tho. I'd be playing faeries if I had the cards.
I have found that Sudden Spoiling lets me win games I shouldn't by neutering the god creatures they have, plus faeries can't counter it. Its an all around good card in this format. I play it WAY over corrupt.
EDIT: on another note, against faeries and merfolk, anything you play in the first few turns is way more likely to get through. Sudden spells get around that.
actually the only decks that give it problems are merfolk, after board, disenchant bitterblossom, sower your scion, hold the cheaper counter magic, gg
sudden death: this card is key vs faeries IMO
Spoiling works great against merfolk and faeries too.
Between MB and SB I have playsets of both Sudden Spoiling and Sudden Death. They have proved to be way more effective than Nameless Inversion or Terror ever were. There is just way too many big decks that have plenty of counters. Faeries, Merfolk, Any Ux control.
Just lost 0-2 to merfolk, both very close games. He made my land into an island though so it became a race with BB tokens.
Im thinking about putting Dash Hopes in the SB to use against counter decks. Help Protect your non-sudden spells.
Thats WITH a BB in play and trying to damnation. They turned one of me lands into an island so I couldn't chump block. They also countered everything important that was not a sudden spell.
So I wanted some help with this one, I will be attending a two-headed giant tourney very soon in which we pick out partners ahead of time. I want to play MBC and my partner is undecided. Now we were talking to our friends, who are also compeating, and they are running two RDW or maybe a RDW and a RDL. With 30 life im not sure how to compete with that. Also there will be no SB, thoughts?
I hate to be the downer of this thread, but I've done heavy testing over the last 3-4 days for the 13k Mega Weekend SCG thing. I've tested MBC, LSV Mannequin, GW Mana Ramp, GW Aggro, Mono Red and Faeries. These 5 against each other. MBC has been the weakest deck. I just don't think it can get there. There's so many other options for good midrange decks right now.
There's alot of oversouls both dusk and shields rolling around right now and this deck pretty much scoops to them. Yes I know you can chump block with mutavaults or whatever but if your having to chump block with mutavaults you've lost.
I just don't think this deck has the power in the current meta. Better options. I wanted to run this bad at the 5k, but I just can't find myself running it.
This deck is going in so many directions right now, you can't really say that it's bad unless you tested 10 different mono black decks. As a black control deck, remind me why we can't figure out a way to beat midrange decks?
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RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
Im still for the older architype of the control MBC, since it can solve most problems...
i use Nameless Inversion maindeck since there are alot decks here useing cards like treetop etc etc... with the cameleon in the enviroment, 4 Damnations are a must, and i use Phirexian Ironfoot... with the nameless inversion maindeck, it has the posibility of killing the cameleon
2 corrupt and 2 Tendrils in maindeck for life gain are a must IMHO
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:mad1:Apprentice of Lavamancy:mad1:
playing in standard: Mono Black Control (from hell):evil:
Corrupt has proven to me time and again that it is to clunky, sure you can hit their face but thats what BB tokens and demigod are for, IMO tendrils is way better because of the cost you can play it with other things with the same effect vs creatures. Other than that I have seen way too much that does not die to inversion to use it. Thats why I play Sudden Death, Sudden Spoiling and Tendrils of Corruption for removal/stall.
EDIT: is it just me or did someone screw up gatherer?
I really have a hard time playing with Corrupt. In my testing and expirience so far the spell just clogs the hand up too much and on a consistant basis. Most of the time I am just wishing it was an answer to an Oversoul+Shield. G/w Aggro and G/w Ramp are really proving to be the worst matchup right now. So far I have good luck against it but I think that is mostly because of luck and skill with this deck.
I really do like Sudden Spoiling and I have been a supporter of the spell for a long time. I may be cutting Corrupt altogether right now and run MD answers that are broadly situational and useful in most matchups. Changes in my list;
-2 Corrupt
+2 Sudden Spoiling
I think that I may just adopt a BtQ toolbox and find room for 1 MD Cruel Edict for after I Damn the board and have a 7/7 indestructible staring me down... another nightmare situation is a Goyf staring me down...
I usually attack the Faerie matchup with "Sudden Spells," alot of instant speed removal and Thoughtseize + Extirpate. Has anyone tried to attack the matchup in that manner? I hear alot of people complain about it but I generally have a 3-1 favor against Faeries. Saddly my G/w results are at about 1.5-1.
I have to agree with you Talon. I loves me some Corrupt but everytime I see it, I'm doing something else or holding off removal in case some jerk decides to be a wise one and put something like Goyf or Sower out. I've always loved how Super Secret Tech Sudden Spoiling is especially against Fish or even Elves. Especially elves...Earth Loving, Tree Hugging, Pointy Eared Weaklings (Name the card I just quoted and you get a cookie.)
The best tech with Sudden Spoiling is when they attack with pro black (E.G CamCol) creatures thinking they can rush through undetected by a 6/6 Korlash only to be chewed by him instead:)
They swing in with their pro-black creatures or their faerie masses. Your creatures, normally idle, become fearsome murder machines when you Spoiling the opponent's army and beat their useless 0/2s over the head. (Specifically speaking, Spoiling + Death is a great split-second combo.)
Yes, but sometimes, it's good to keep your korlash or other creatures in play. So after you cleared to board once, they drop a large threat, you drop your threat, they swing. You sudden spoil, crush their critter to the ground and swing.
Game 1 - RB Elementals?
My opponent was fairly new and doesn't have much of a card pool to draw from. In the second game I gave him a few turns just to see if his deck ever did anything other than drop little 1/1 elementals who make mana. Nothing ever happened. Great guy but needs more cards before he can realy compete at FNM.
2 - 0
Game 2 - GB Elves
Mmmmm tasty elves, Korlash loves to snack on elves. Good player this time but I haven't ever lost to elves. He got taken down by shear weight of removal followed up by a Demigod with a hammer. Highlight being in the second game where I profanes for 5 returning my one shriekmaw, blowing away all his threats and swinging in for the win.
2 - 0
Game 3 - BU Faeries
First game I got hosed by scions on oona and stupid plays on my part. Dropped my bitterblossom too soon which got rune snaged, then he managed to get 2 scions out pretty quick. I drew into a damnation soon after but that got snagged as well. Second game I took a risk and sided out damnation and some other things for extripate and distress. Worked like a charm, distressed/extripated his snags, dropped bitterblossom, GG. Third game was a close one, never saw bitterblossom, and he ended up taking my demigod and beating my face with it. Luckily I was able to chump with another demi god, then play a 3rd on my turn returning all 3 for the win.
2 - 1
Game 4 - RG that new thing that runs mainiac, goyf, and lots of burn
He was the only other undefeated. First game, got a godly hand of 3 korlash, 3 swamp, and a bitter blossom. Drew into urchin and demigod. Stalled with bitter blossom. Played korlash on turn 4, he burned it for four, granduer, he swung with tarmo-rofl, granduer again, block = dead tarmo. Played demi god in my turn, he conceeded. Second game I mulliganed down to 5 (O_o) due to lack of lands. The five card hand wasn't great either with 1 urza, 1 swamp, 2 urchin, 1 damnation. Luckily I was able to draw into the 3rd land to start cranking out the urchins. He got land flooded and I ended up beating his face with a 4/4 epocrhasite.
2 - 0
Final thoughts - I am freakin LOVING Btq and I haven't even used it to its true potential. Usualy I grab a Urborg with it which speeds up my deck big time. At this stage I'm not sure about the mutavaults. If I can get a hol of some deserts I will probaly replace them. I never want to chump with them or attack with them early and risk losing them, and late game they are generaly too small to make an impact. Still thinking about that one.
Possible changed in the future
- 2 Mutavault + 2 Desert
Sideboard
- 3 somethings + 3 Sudden Spoiling
Edit: Last note, I dont run thoughtsieze because I would rather wait one extra turn and save 2 life. And Corrupt to meh, too clunky, and is too much of a winmore card for me.
Bitterblossom helps first game again RDW, second game side in your gnomes and you should be fine. I usualy side in epocrasites as well to ensure all he can do early game is burn my face.
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Can i know what's in your sideboard?
I never said it sucks. I love mbc and I want to play it bad. I just dont think it can get there without a splash and if we splash the deck completely changes. We have to take out tendrils corrupt and korlash. I'm gonna explore the splash in great detail in the coming weeks. Korlash struggled against all those decks above I played 5 games each against them all. Only one it went 3-2 against was big mana. My list is almost exactly like talons.
@dood - faeries is still the deck to beat. I dont think theres a single deck in the format that can blow it out. People say rdw. But it doesn't blow it out. RDW went 3-2 against it in very close games. If faeries is played by a good player its an absolute strong deck. The only deck in the frmat that I see giving it a run is elf ball. Everyone has this conceptin that the way to beat faeries is good sb tech and spot removal and its just not. Very fast pressure and a clock is how you beat it. Fast clock and aggression aren't in this deck...
I'm probably gonna run my gw aggro deck I'm gonna post a list a little later ill link to it. It too struggles against faeries tho. I'd be playing faeries if I had the cards.
2009 Richmond City Champ
EDIT: on another note, against faeries and merfolk, anything you play in the first few turns is way more likely to get through. Sudden spells get around that.
I hear.
I touch.
I speak.
Do you?
Spoiling works great against merfolk and faeries too.
Between MB and SB I have playsets of both Sudden Spoiling and Sudden Death. They have proved to be way more effective than Nameless Inversion or Terror ever were. There is just way too many big decks that have plenty of counters. Faeries, Merfolk, Any Ux control.
Just lost 0-2 to merfolk, both very close games. He made my land into an island though so it became a race with BB tokens.
Im thinking about putting Dash Hopes in the SB to use against counter decks. Help Protect your non-sudden spells.
I hear.
I touch.
I speak.
Do you?
I hear.
I touch.
I speak.
Do you?
Thanks to spiderboy4 and [High~Light Studios] for the AMAZING sig and avatar!
One note tho. Sudden spoiling doesn't stop shield of oversoul. The creature would be a 2/4 indestructible flyer.
2009 Richmond City Champ
This deck is going in so many directions right now, you can't really say that it's bad unless you tested 10 different mono black decks. As a black control deck, remind me why we can't figure out a way to beat midrange decks?
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
i use Nameless Inversion maindeck since there are alot decks here useing cards like treetop etc etc... with the cameleon in the enviroment, 4 Damnations are a must, and i use Phirexian Ironfoot... with the nameless inversion maindeck, it has the posibility of killing the cameleon
2 corrupt and 2 Tendrils in maindeck for life gain are a must IMHO
:mad1:Apprentice of Lavamancy:mad1:
playing in standard:
Mono Black Control
(from hell):evil:
No I think it makes it a 0/2 with no abilities. Its LOSES ALL ABILITIES. (flying, industructablty...)
Atleast, since it was played AFTER oversoul was out there so it stacks over it for that turn.
Anyway, my 2nd round pairing was G/W Mana-Ramp. Any way to counteract LD, or just to man up and take it?
[GTC] Gatecrash Patch for MWS (249/249)
EDIT: is it just me or did someone screw up gatherer?
I hear.
I touch.
I speak.
Do you?
I really do like Sudden Spoiling and I have been a supporter of the spell for a long time. I may be cutting Corrupt altogether right now and run MD answers that are broadly situational and useful in most matchups. Changes in my list;
-2 Corrupt
+2 Sudden Spoiling
I think that I may just adopt a BtQ toolbox and find room for 1 MD Cruel Edict for after I Damn the board and have a 7/7 indestructible staring me down... another nightmare situation is a Goyf staring me down...
I usually attack the Faerie matchup with "Sudden Spells," alot of instant speed removal and Thoughtseize + Extirpate. Has anyone tried to attack the matchup in that manner? I hear alot of people complain about it but I generally have a 3-1 favor against Faeries. Saddly my G/w results are at about 1.5-1.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
[GTC] Gatecrash Patch for MWS (249/249)
do you guys run damnation with sudden spoiling ?
Maybe over simplified but...
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
3 Dusk Urchins
1 Graveborn Muse (still looking to get last urchin)
4 Demigod of Revenge
1 Shriekmaw
Spells 18
4 Damnation
3 Sudden Death
3 Terror
4 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Profane Command
2 BTQ
3 Bitterblossom
Artifacts 2
2 Loxodon Warhammer
Land 24
1 Desert
2 Mutavault
2 Urza's Factory
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Leechridden Swamp
15 Swamp
4 Distress
3 Bottle Knomes
3 Epochrasite
4 Extirpate
1 Terror
My opponent was fairly new and doesn't have much of a card pool to draw from. In the second game I gave him a few turns just to see if his deck ever did anything other than drop little 1/1 elementals who make mana. Nothing ever happened. Great guy but needs more cards before he can realy compete at FNM.
2 - 0
Game 2 - GB Elves
Mmmmm tasty elves, Korlash loves to snack on elves. Good player this time but I haven't ever lost to elves. He got taken down by shear weight of removal followed up by a Demigod with a hammer. Highlight being in the second game where I profanes for 5 returning my one shriekmaw, blowing away all his threats and swinging in for the win.
2 - 0
Game 3 - BU Faeries
First game I got hosed by scions on oona and stupid plays on my part. Dropped my bitterblossom too soon which got rune snaged, then he managed to get 2 scions out pretty quick. I drew into a damnation soon after but that got snagged as well. Second game I took a risk and sided out damnation and some other things for extripate and distress. Worked like a charm, distressed/extripated his snags, dropped bitterblossom, GG. Third game was a close one, never saw bitterblossom, and he ended up taking my demigod and beating my face with it. Luckily I was able to chump with another demi god, then play a 3rd on my turn returning all 3 for the win.
2 - 1
Game 4 - RG that new thing that runs mainiac, goyf, and lots of burn
He was the only other undefeated. First game, got a godly hand of 3 korlash, 3 swamp, and a bitter blossom. Drew into urchin and demigod. Stalled with bitter blossom. Played korlash on turn 4, he burned it for four, granduer, he swung with tarmo-rofl, granduer again, block = dead tarmo. Played demi god in my turn, he conceeded. Second game I mulliganed down to 5 (O_o) due to lack of lands. The five card hand wasn't great either with 1 urza, 1 swamp, 2 urchin, 1 damnation. Luckily I was able to draw into the 3rd land to start cranking out the urchins. He got land flooded and I ended up beating his face with a 4/4 epocrhasite.
2 - 0
Final thoughts - I am freakin LOVING Btq and I haven't even used it to its true potential. Usualy I grab a Urborg with it which speeds up my deck big time. At this stage I'm not sure about the mutavaults. If I can get a hol of some deserts I will probaly replace them. I never want to chump with them or attack with them early and risk losing them, and late game they are generaly too small to make an impact. Still thinking about that one.
Possible changed in the future
- 2 Mutavault + 2 Desert
Sideboard
- 3 somethings + 3 Sudden Spoiling
Edit: Last note, I dont run thoughtsieze because I would rather wait one extra turn and save 2 life. And Corrupt to meh, too clunky, and is too much of a winmore card for me.