MTG Salvation

I don't really like finkel. He competes for the 3 mana spot with Mulldrifter and Ironfoot. You could play all 3, but that gluttons up the slot a bit too much. I play in a pretty aggro heavy environment, and that means he gets the cut over Mulldrifter and Ironfoot. 3 toughness is also a much easier target to hit then 4 toughness.

Finkle's original purpose in the deck was not for the aggro match-ups, but for the control ones. In the current meta, the control match-ups include Mana-ramp, Mannequin, and possibly blink. If you are facing more of the aggro decks (rogues, elves, doran) then i suppose they are not as effective as they were intended to be

Quote from Shift-red

Finkle's original purpose in the deck was not for the aggro match-ups, but for the control ones. In the current meta, the control match-ups include Mana-ramp, Mannequin, and possibly blink. If you are facing more of the aggro decks (rogues, elves, doran) then i suppose they are not as effective as they were intended to be

I know dont why there is so much debate about finkle. He is one of the best 3 drops in the game. Aside from that he is perfect in this deck. So what if he is a target. If your not playing against black then he will most likely net you 2-3 cards. If you are playing against black he is still good. He is a 1/3 so he blocks fear dudes all day and matbe draws you a card or two. On top of all that he is good in the curve as we dont have a whole lot on turn 3 plays. I would play a finkle turn 3 before i would play a ironfoot or mulldrifter. My thinking is if i play finkle turn 3 and mulldrifter turn 4 than thats three extra cards for me by turn 4. Small things like this are important to accelerating your early game for an easier win. At least thats my take on it. Obviously its better to Sb him out games 2and or 3 against heavy black. But saying that taking him out is a good choice is just silly. If thats the thought then why not take out shriekmaw since it cant kill black creatures or ironfoot since it cant block flyers? Point in case why rip out solid cards from the MD for some what if's? If you suspect that a cards performance MAY be hindered in some matchups reduce the cout to 3 and play something else that might help before playing sub-optimal cards in important slots in the deck.

like i said if they work for you run them. but i have tested them and found them a waste of a slot every time i played 1 wished it was somthing else so i cut them

What decks do you play against?

Finkel is the bomb, however, I only use 3 copies of him in my deck these days, which IMO is the right number for him now. He is good, but you normally wouldn't like to see him in multiples. Specially on your first 7.

Quote from Gatherey

I'm playing this version for week and I'm wondering if it is good enough to fight with other tier1 decks:

MannequinMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4 River of Tears 4 Underground River 4 Faerie Conclave 2 Mouth of Ronom 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 2 Desert 4 Snow-Covered Island 3 Snow-Covered Swamp	4 Phyrexian Ironfoot 4 Shadowmage Infiltrator 4 Mulldrifter 4 Shriekmaw 4 Riftwing Cloudskate 2 Venser, Shaper Savant	4 Makeshift Mannequin 3 Damnation 3 Cryptic Command 2 Profane Command 1 Loxodon Warhammer

single warhammer is enough imho, because every time I had it, I won

and my sb: (still not ended)
4 Thoughtseize
3 Extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
4 Rune Snag (are they worth space there?)
2 ???

I'm playing this deck sth like 1 week and I don't know what I should have in SB and if my MD is good. What I can change to make it perfect?

I know next to nothing about the deck, so I may be clueless, but if you win every time you get a hammer, why wouldn't you want 2-3 so you draw them more often?

Quote from D3@D

Finkel is the bomb, however, I only use 3 copies of him in my deck these days, which IMO is the right number for him now. He is good, but you normally wouldn't like to see him in multiples. Specially on your first 7.

I love Finkel in multiples...you just bury them in card advantage. I think there's no reason to run less than 4. Like, why would you not want him?

I also think Cryptic Command is not the right choice these days. Simply put, you have to have more early game against aggro, which the format is shifting towards. This merits simply sideboard changes discussed earlier and the 4th Damnation and 3rd Profane.

Anyone considering Mutavaults?

Ain't faerie conclaves just better then them for us? They produce blue mana, and is a 2/1 flier thats able to block faes and rougues that may get through for prowling or just get through by itself. The shapeshifter ability of the mishra-remake is also useless to us.

I'm just saying. I went back up to 26 lands (for right now) and that opens up 2 land spots. I figured more manlands could be good-better than Factory, at least, which I never ever activated when I played them. I'm not suggesting cutting Conclaves, I'm suggesting that more manlands (especially when they are replacing colorless sources anyway) are better.

It looks like a plausible situation but i think factories are more playable seeing that ur almost never gonna attack with mutavaults, since aggro decks are taking up more and more of the field. They're just gonna shape up to be an early blocker able to stop 2 or 3 damage thats unable to stop fear creatures. We also lose a land when it dies making profanes less powerful. Good thing is that it cant be eyeblight-ended but it can be terrorable. The factory can on the other side churn out constant artifact tokens and not count as a stone rain when one of the tokens chump blocks. So I don't think you should replace them with factories, maybe with some of the coloured mana, but I don't know how that would work out.

Don't take me wrong, I like finkle too, I just don't like to see too much of him. Cause I'd rather see other cards (options if you will) in my opening hand. And I've been happy with the 3x Finkle in my deck you won't even notice the absence of the 4th copy, the deck just runs smoother IMO.

Not saying that 4x Finkle is crap:P Just saying that 3x has been doing fine for me and it opens up space to an already tight MD.

Quote from Gatherey

Finkels are absolutely must 4-of. I've tried to play without them and later on 3, but I didn't have high CA enough to win games with hard opponents. And I'm wondering, why all are playing Mournwhelks and Nameless Inversions in SB? Are they really so good? Against what I have to SB-in them?

Inversions go in against fast aggro decks like Rogues, and are basically necessary to win.

Mounwhelk is just the best discard spell available to us against control decks.

Quote from Trainswalker09

Anyone considering Mutavaults?

I tried them but sometimes you will just get crap draws because this deck craves U/B/x On turn three and UU/BB on turn 4 so I still just run Conclave over it.


So I got third at the FNM last night, I lost to the new U/W Combo Blink deck w/ Mirror Entity, That deck is sooo good, getting all your permanents bounced isnt a pretty sight:-/


O and I put Bitterblossom in my sideboard, and it just dectroyed a Teachings deck I played, it just set them back so far they couldnt recover, anyone else try it yet?


@Gatherey- I believe Mournwhelk is awesome,some control decks(all Combo decks) just card handle it,

Mournwhelk seems good vs. entity combo. Also, faerie conclave seems alot better than mutavault, as it has flying, and it taps for blue and the CiPT effect shouldn't hurt your tempo t1 as the deck has no 1 drops.

Quote from Gatherey

Finkels are absolutely must 4-of. I've tried to play without them and later on 3, but I didn't have high CA enough to win games with hard opponents. And I'm wondering, why all are playing Mournwhelks and Nameless Inversions in SB? Are they really so good? Against what I have to SB-in them?

He's not an absolute must 4-of. With 4 Damnations MD, I've have gond down to 3 Finkels and 3 Ironfoots, which lets me play 2x Bitterblossom (I decided they were better than Hammers after all).

Mutavaults aren't great here, simply because it's just another colorless source that will not be attacking very often. I haven't tried them myself yet, because I have yet to acquire a set, so I may be wrong. One Factory and 3 Deserts are all my deck can afford to support atm.

Should we "Re-introduce" Extirpates in our SB if Blink / Revillark is proven to be popular?

To be honest I haven't seen much of these decks yet (not even Rogue decks)

EDIT; I've heard people talking about these decks and collecting cards of this sort in my area tho, so it may just be a matter of time.

Don't most of us already have sowers or persuasions as a 3 or 4 of in our sbs?

Quote from 0ChibiCloud

Don't most of us already have sowers or persuasions as a 3 or 4 of in our sbs?

I dont anymore. Its not because they arent good but because they are not needed/dont have the Board space.

On the Subject of Extirpate, Its very much needed, I have been running them in the board all along just for the fact that they are never really a dead card(Except against aggro I guess).

(Concerning the new Combo deck)If you Extirpate Mirror Entity, You have reduced them to playing a really bad blink deck, and you will mostly likely win, otherwise its an uphill battle.

@ PsiBlast: what does your SB look like then?

I think Control Magics are very beneficial in certain matchups, and leaving them out can hurt sometimes.

As a side note, having tested my theory this past week, I strongly advocate that everyone tests out a 5x3 SB, as with this much CA you are all but garunteed to see at least one of any given card in each game. The only reason I'm not running one at the moment is because I felt Bitterblossoms deserved MD slots, and I generally don't feel good running more than 2 Warhammers.

SB:
4x Persuasion
2x Loxodon Warhammer
3x Mournwhelk
3x Nameless Inversion
3x Pithing Needle

Quote from circu626

@ PsiBlast: what does your SB look like then?

I think Control Magics are very beneficial in certain matchups, and leaving them out can hurt sometimes.

As a side note, having tested my theory this past week, I strongly advocate that everyone tests out a 5x3 SB, as with this much CA you are all but garunteed to see at least one of any given card in each game. The only reason I'm not running one at the moment is because I felt Bitterblossoms deserved MD slots, and I generally don't feel good running more than 2 Warhammers.

SB:
4x Persuasion
2x Loxodon Warhammer
3x Mournwhelk
3x Nameless Inversion
3x Pithing Needle

Here it is:




Teferi may seem strange but there is alot of Control(Teachings)/Storm Combo/Turbo Fog in my meta.

Oh well if your meta is pretty control-centered, I guess the Control Magic isin't as game-winning for you. Not a bad SB overall, I'd still reccomend moving the Damnations to the MD, because 2 in and 2 out is not very effective. IMO, most often you are either going to want all 4 in or all 4 out.

Yes, the new UW Reveillark deck is pretty damn good. I tried my new GR Crusher and I got beaten every time.