Why are people sideboarding this card? i dont see any decks that this is really good against.
Reivelark, blink in general, swans, Enchanted evening, wish or no, and the like. It stops persist, epochrasite, dakmor salvage, and anything else you can think of.
Revilark: Has anyone noticed how many bounce cards are in a Rev deck? they bounce it and continue doing whatever it is.
Blink Decks: Agreed
Swans: They are running like 30 lands. I have a swans deck kill me without Dakmor Salvage. I extripated it. It just went discard a land, draw two "hey look another land" discard it, draw two more. he ended up with almost no deck. if i had Wheel on him he would have been able to loop straight through. now that wouldnt happen every time. but it still doesnt actually hurt them all that much, from what i have found from when i have faced it.
Wheel DOES NOT help the swan match up. i know this because i witnessed it HELP the swan deck win. it helps the swan player stack all the lands in their library and after cycling through all their lands (putting all non land cards in hand) the ensue to blast your with an infinite supply of lands. it's like giving them a more effective anti-deck out tech
It can be though. and against some of the decks it can be, it forces them to either find a solution and waste it on the wheel, or it just stalls them long enough for the slower controlly deck you're probably playing to win.
Wheel is pretty effective against Lark. It's cheap, so bouncing it isn't too big a problem. Bouncing it really only buys them one turn, so unless you have a brutal hand with which you would've won anyways, Wheel can pretty much neuter a Lark pretty well.
I know swans decks that RUN wheel...cause its you know..INSTANT ensured win most of the time...
It does help against a lot of things. I like using it against non standard decks, but overall it isn't that great. I can see Gaea's blessing being used more effectively against mill decks, which doesn't require mana to play, can't be bounced, and can only be countered by trickbind. Not to mention it does stuff other then just stop mill.
I use 3x Gaea's in my Antisocial Treefolk deck's sideboard
Faerie Macabre scares every reanimate deck once they find out you're playing it. I fought Revilark Control and the second i asked "What is Revilark targeting?" he paused and thought really hard about what two of the creatures in his graveyard he could do without. It was awesome. And sun and moon wheel wouldnt have made him Evoke Revilark, he would have just cast it and bashed me in the face with it. i would have lost.
At first I thought Wheel of Sun and Moon was pretty good. But now everytime I think about it, Faerie Macabrae just seems almost infinitely better in most situations.
I've playtested the Wheel against Reveillark and I've gotta say... If you lay it out early, it'll REALLY take away a LOT of synergy in the deck. Keep in mind the following:
1) If they are bouncing it back with a cloudskate/venser, as someone else mentioned, they aren't bouncing a threat/land back to your hand.
2) If they use blink to bounce it back, you HALVE the functionality of blink, as suddenly even after resolution, the blink will be put to the bottom before the bounce trigger resolves.
3) Body Double becomes a lot worse when they don't have dudes in the grave. As does Reveillark.
4) With an early wheel, the opponent is a lot less likely to evoke that mulldrifter.
5) Rune Snag just got a whole lot worse.
As said, this hinges on wheel hitting play EARLY... I've found in my testing that an early wheel will hack apart the synergies in reveillark. However, as a lategame topdeck... it really sucks.
So my conclusion on it's application depends on whether you feel that wheel can benefit YOUR deck or not as well. If you draw into two, will targeting yourself be of any value? I've sometimes played out two, both enchanting the opponent to avoid any bounce shenanigans. Without their graveyard, Reveillark becomes a whole lot less potent. And the fact of the matter is, it is repeatable and occurs for everything. This sets it apart from Tormods Crypt for instance, since crypt is a "one time only" deal.
But as said... Crypt is better lategame. So it comes down to a bit of strategy: If you're an aggressive deck, Wheel might make a lot of sense since you aren't looking to go late game anyway. If you're a control deck... I don't think it's as potent personally.
The main benefit to wheel of sun and moon is just how flexible it is. Its effective againist mill decks (tormods crypt, and faerie macabre do nothing here), persist decks (I think its better crypt and macabre here, because it has a constant effect), reveillark (this is where I think the other two options shine, but wheel can still be effective, esp. if they spend a lot of resources to keep it off the table).
Reivelark, blink in general, swans, Enchanted evening, wish or no, and the like. It stops persist, epochrasite, dakmor salvage, and anything else you can think of.
Revilark: Has anyone noticed how many bounce cards are in a Rev deck? they bounce it and continue doing whatever it is.
Blink Decks: Agreed
Swans: They are running like 30 lands. I have a swans deck kill me without Dakmor Salvage. I extripated it. It just went discard a land, draw two "hey look another land" discard it, draw two more. he ended up with almost no deck. if i had Wheel on him he would have been able to loop straight through. now that wouldnt happen every time. but it still doesnt actually hurt them all that much, from what i have found from when i have faced it.
<System> Player Lost
It can be though. and against some of the decks it can be, it forces them to either find a solution and waste it on the wheel, or it just stalls them long enough for the slower controlly deck you're probably playing to win.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
- Countryside Crusher
- Goyf loses power
- Perfect against mill decks
- Yeah, persist
- Flashbacks/Dread return
:symu::symw:-Millfolk (14-6)
:symr::symu::symb::symg::symw:-Elementals (25-3)
T2: :symg::symb:-Elves (45-15)
T1.X: :symu::symb::symg::symw::symr:-Dredge (40-1)
Vintage/Legacy: NEVER!! (0-0)
T4: Mono :symu:/Artifact-Gleemax Control (36-0)
2HG Constructed: :symu::symb:-Control (15-5)
And the only dredge deck in standard right now is actually helped with this...
I'd say any deck that abuses graveyard OTHER than swans.
I hear.
I touch.
I speak.
Do you?
It does help against a lot of things. I like using it against non standard decks, but overall it isn't that great. I can see Gaea's blessing being used more effectively against mill decks, which doesn't require mana to play, can't be bounced, and can only be countered by trickbind. Not to mention it does stuff other then just stop mill.
I use 3x Gaea's in my Antisocial Treefolk deck's sideboard
Big thanks to Spiderboy and HighLight Studios
It also trounces turbofog pretty well. Or is a great wincon for them
1) If they are bouncing it back with a cloudskate/venser, as someone else mentioned, they aren't bouncing a threat/land back to your hand.
2) If they use blink to bounce it back, you HALVE the functionality of blink, as suddenly even after resolution, the blink will be put to the bottom before the bounce trigger resolves.
3) Body Double becomes a lot worse when they don't have dudes in the grave. As does Reveillark.
4) With an early wheel, the opponent is a lot less likely to evoke that mulldrifter.
5) Rune Snag just got a whole lot worse.
As said, this hinges on wheel hitting play EARLY... I've found in my testing that an early wheel will hack apart the synergies in reveillark. However, as a lategame topdeck... it really sucks.
So my conclusion on it's application depends on whether you feel that wheel can benefit YOUR deck or not as well. If you draw into two, will targeting yourself be of any value? I've sometimes played out two, both enchanting the opponent to avoid any bounce shenanigans. Without their graveyard, Reveillark becomes a whole lot less potent. And the fact of the matter is, it is repeatable and occurs for everything. This sets it apart from Tormods Crypt for instance, since crypt is a "one time only" deal.
But as said... Crypt is better lategame. So it comes down to a bit of strategy: If you're an aggressive deck, Wheel might make a lot of sense since you aren't looking to go late game anyway. If you're a control deck... I don't think it's as potent personally.