What do you guys think about adding a Carnage Tyrant as a game finisher? It doesn't synergise with the rest of the deck, but I kinda think people wouldn't be expecting it.
I asked about carnage tyrant in the temur thread too, but I thought I'd ask here too since the decks are quite different and I'm curious.
I think 6 cost anything is a bit much for the deck. I've felt a lot happier capping at 5 drops and just playing a good mid-range brawl since most of the matches I've had are different forms of aggro. Control feels like it is dieing off in my meta due to abrade killing God-Pharaoh's Gift.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What do you guys think about adding a Carnage Tyrant as a game finisher? It doesn't synergise with the rest of the deck, but I kinda think people wouldn't be expecting it.
I asked about carnage tyrant in the temur thread too, but I thought I'd ask here too since the decks are quite different and I'm curious.
You don't really want to make six land drops to resolve a Tyrant in this deck. It makes more sense in Temur, where it's usually significantly bigger than the rest of the board and where you have mana accelerants in Servant of the Conduit and Chandra, Torch of Defiance to power it out earlier and not need to hit a bunch of land drops.
The Scarab God is a better top-end / trump card on power level and cost, and if you want to play a trump that just puts a bunch of beef into play, I would look into Verdurous Gearhulk before Carnage Tyrant in this shell. But I would advise just sticking with the core plan of playing the format's most powerful 1-2 cmc cards instead of clunking things up with big bombs.
So, I've been running a wonky lost for fnms lately (I know not the best testing grounds). I've been having a lot of success with a scarab god-less deck. Instead I cap out at 4 cmc with 3 hydra and 2 hostage taker, other than one confiscation coup main. I'm running 21 lands/4 attune, but my manabase is 1 fetid pools, 3 drowned catacombs, 1 island for the blue splash.
I still feel like the deck is just extra-mediocre, but I don't feel like there are a lot of bad match-ups other than temur, but that might just be me.
So, I've been running a wonky lost for fnms lately (I know not the best testing grounds). I've been having a lot of success with a scarab god-less deck. Instead I cap out at 4 cmc with 3 hydra and 2 hostage taker, other than one confiscation coup main. I'm running 21 lands/4 attune, but my manabase is 1 fetid pools, 3 drowned catacombs, 1 island for the blue splash.
I still feel like the deck is just extra-mediocre, but I don't feel like there are a lot of bad match-ups other than temur, but that might just be me.
If by extra mediocre, you mean stands a pretty good chance against all available popular decks I would agree. Our deck doesn't have too many incredible big finishers. The Scarab God is the big exception to this. If your not playing it, it's probably part of the problem. I'm still playing/advocating for 2 the Scarab god mb, but monetary cost is prohibitive. Still, the deck has a very interesting tempo/aggro/midrange feel when you consider the sideboard. The deck doesn't have much of an "ah-ha! I got you!" feel. It does have answers to everything and enough flexibility to combat the most prevalent archetypes.
I do agree with the Hostage taker bristling hydra split however. I was waiting due to cost, but I'm going to run a 4/1 hydra/hostage taker myself with one hostage taker in the sideboard. 3/2 Hydra/hostage taker sounds feasible as well, which will require more investigation. Hydra seems undervalued on this thread currently, but perhaps more competitive players are finding it less useful.
By extra mediocre, I mean the deck relies so much on synergy and we don't have many single card power plays. I played the deck with scarab god in it, and in the current low land count deck it's hard for it to be a comeback card. Compared to something like glorybringer out of temur, it takes several turns to turn around a game where we are behind.
So because of that aspect, I've just built my deck to be really good at being the best mediocre deck it can be.
Personally, I want to play this deck, but have answers to Glorybringer. So I will be messing around with Sultai Red splashing for Harnessed Lightning and maybe some sideboard Chandra's Defeat.
Personally, I want to play this deck, but have answers to Glorybringer. So I will be messing around with Sultai Red splashing for Harnessed Lightning and maybe some sideboard Chandra's Defeat.
I had Harsh Scrutiny played against me at FNM the other night and it hurt. It's good against the bulk of the meta right now. Just play this before Temur's turn 5. We nab it if it's in their hand. If not, they probably still have a good target for us. Same can be said against our mirror match, and Ramunap Red. I'll fit at least 1 into the sideboard, maybe 2 if I like it. Honestly, this could fill that gap I've felt against Ramunap Red and the mirror matchup in creature removal. It hits things that Fatal Push can't touch, but is much cheaper than Vraska's Contempt.
Despite it's looks, it's never a dead card. At the very least we get to see their hand and scry 1. That's somewhat comparable to a Gitaxian Probe effect, but legal in standard.
I had essence Scatter in the sideboard before and didn't like it all that much. I like that this is only 1 mana investment, in a color with better mana support, and faster when we want speed in our answers.
One last note in fighting Glorybringer. Why not look at 2 The Scarab God main? The God leaves us with at least a giant threat that can dodge its and Chandra's ability. Seems good all the time.
I'm currently testing 2 negate and 1 essence scatter in the board. The scatter is for temur, while I have 2 die young and 1 essence extraction to bring in against other aggressive decks.
The problem with comparing scarab god to glorybringer is that glorybringer gets ramped into and immediately starts attacking and affection the board. Scarab god gets gunned up on the ground and takes a turn or two for the advantage to start working. That being said, I did like him in the control match-ups, but those already seek pretty ok to me as long as we curve attune cub snake plus blossoming defense.
I also really like Vraska's Contempt. I go back and forth between 2 main and 1 main 1 side if I'm playing confiscation coup in the main.
I'm on 2 Contempt and 1 Coup main, and with 4 Pushes that feels like a decent amount of removal for game 1.
I'm recently testing out a pair of maindeck Negates as well. I like having something in my list for game 1 against Approach/Gift/general control matchups, and it's never a totally useless card. Against RR if they see it in game 1 it could cause them to be hesitant about bringing Chandras for game 2, which is a nice psychological trick. Supreme Will might be a better/more flexible option; that's next on my agenda.
I really like the idea of Harsh Scrutiny. Preemptive removal against otherwise difficult threats seems solid, and the scry ensures that we get some value out of all the time. Dunno where I fit it in, but I'll try!
Sooo.. i've been in 3 top8 pptqs this season, 1 of them i was in the finals. Loving yhe deck but it just seems to be missing out on somethinh.
I'm thinking of putting in 2x viziers mb. What do u guys think? Copy a scarab god or glorybringer. For 4 mana, it's really versatile in this creature heavy meta. Even copies a taker otb n steal something else. Will take out 1 hydra n sacrab from my mb n try it out.
Sooo.. i've been in 3 top8 pptqs this season, 1 of them i was in the finals. Loving yhe deck but it just seems to be missing out on somethinh.
I'm thinking of putting in 2x viziers mb. What do u guys think? Copy a scarab god or glorybringer. For 4 mana, it's really versatile in this creature heavy meta. Even copies a taker otb n steal something else. Will take out 1 hydra n sacrab from my mb n try it out.
I'd say your better off leaving in Bristling Hydra and The Scarab God. They are threats in their own right. With Vizier of Many faces, there needs to already be a good creature on the board for you to copy it. You mention some good times to play it, but it's better to have a hydra or the scarab god a lot of the time. These cards are never bad when played on their own, Vizier can be. Possibly a sideboard card, but I can't see it taking the place of the cards you mentioned mb.
I had an event last night. It was the first time I wanted to play a competitive deck instead of brewing some nonsense. I looked at the list in my sig, then all the recent 5-0 decks on mtggoldfish. I thought about how Bristling Hydra matches up against Gifted Aetherborn and Gonti. I moved the Hostage Takers from the side to the maindeck.
I then proceeded to play like a complete donkey and go an effective 1-2 (2-2, but a bye). I am going to try something closer to Seth's Pro Tour winning deck, but without Hydras, I can see the argument for not playing constrictors. When the Constrictor payoffs just die as 1 for 1s, like Constrictor, then I just want to play as many card advantage cards as possible. I start with Siphoner and Refiner.
This has probably been considered and discarded, but has anyone looked at Jund or Jund splash blue energy? I'm trying to figure out a way to attack the meta from a different direction. I can't really see any R/B payoff cards is the issue. Anybody have anything worth it? Or is that lack of payoff exactly why nobody is running it?
This has probably been considered and discarded, but has anyone looked at Jund or Jund splash blue energy? I'm trying to figure out a way to attack the meta from a different direction. I can't really see any R/B payoff cards is the issue. Anybody have anything worth it? Or is that lack of payoff exactly why nobody is running it?
Sure. Rhazzercom was doing something with it. The payoffs are clear. G provides Attune, Refiner, Cub, Hydra, etc. R provides Harnessed Lightning, Chandra, Glorybringer. B gives Siphoner, Push, Vraska's Contempt, Vraska.
There have been 5-0 MTGO lists, but not with Constrictor. Typically they have run Servant like this one that t8ed GP POrtland. I speculate that when we stretch the mana for R, we need the extra fixing of Servant. Adding Servant costs either Constrictor or Constrictor payoffs to the point where Constrictor isn't worthwhile. But go ahead, prove me wrong and please report back, because when you do, I want to play your deck.
I thought I would try tuning the main a little to have better game against control and randoms. Gonna see how the planeswalker package does, along with the Supreme Wills. Still on the gearhulk plan this week. If it doesn't go my way I'll look into alternatives. If I'm lucky I'll be able to find the 4th Blooming Marsh that I need...
Sideboard has mostly well-known choices. I tested against control on the weekend with Lifecrafter's Bestiary and it was insane. So much card quality and extra draw. Obelisk Spider is there for RR and Temur. Dunno if it'll pan out but no harm in trying. I'll report back either way!
I had an event last night. It was the first time I wanted to play a competitive deck instead of brewing some nonsense. I looked at the list in my sig, then all the recent 5-0 decks on mtggoldfish. I thought about how Bristling Hydra matches up against Gifted Aetherborn and Gonti. I moved the Hostage Takers from the side to the maindeck.
I then proceeded to play like a complete donkey and go an effective 1-2 (2-2, but a bye). I am going to try something closer to Seth's Pro Tour winning deck, but without Hydras, I can see the argument for not playing constrictors. When the Constrictor payoffs just die as 1 for 1s, like Constrictor, then I just want to play as many card advantage cards as possible. I start with Siphoner and Refiner.
I played 2 Kitesail freebooter mb at my last fnm. They replaced my 2 walking ballista. I think this card can help us play winding constrictor profitably. It feels pretty good to drop kitesail as my first 2 drop, almost all the time. We peek at their hand and get their first removal spell out of it. If they have a second, we can hold up blossoming defense to protect kitesail against that one possibly. It's at least a good tempo play for us, scope out the hand while developing board presence, and slow down their removal for at least a turn. I played a 3rd copy in the side and went for it a couple of times.
I think Walking ballista now under performs in our deck. We don't have as many things that can place counters on it, and fatal push can take care of small creatures. Seems good against RR, but it can be in the side for them. Kitesail is still good against RR, and many other matchups we encounter.
I'm starting to see this deck as a kind of aggro/synergy deck, with a hidden tempo theme that needs to be explored. We have the freebooter, b. defense, Hydra, Rogue Refiner, Hostage taker and The scarab god, all good tempo cards. We can make our opponent's removal less optimal by playing creatures that negate it, or have etb triggers that gain us advantage even when removed.
I'm liking the idea of freebooter turn 2, turn 3 Rogue refiner or 2 drop+blossoming defense/push, followed by hostage taker or hydra. Adding freebooter also makes counter spells gain immense value. Let me nab your removal, then counterspell the removal you follow up with on freebooter. Taking removal out of someone else's hand in a deck that has hostage taker and blossoming defense seems absurd.
I finally got 2 hostage takers, and will get more if needed. I want to try out 3 kitesail freebooters alongside some hostage takers, b. defense and perhaps Supreme will, spell pierce or negate. I'll post a list after some more brewing.
Feels like moving towards a BG/x Rock style build. More maindeck disruption, value creatures for days... I like it. I was all over that plan back in that particular Extended era.
I am intrigued by the 4c Energy idea -- based mostly on Jund. I looked at the decklist you linked and made some changes to restore the explosive starts the snake offers. That deck is more an extension of the GRU decks than the sultai decks anyways.
I am not at all convinced you need the Servants, nor do I think you need 4 each Push and H. Lightning; especially not with Ballistae in the deck. As I look at this though, I realize that the only R in the MD is the trio of burn spells and wonder if it's really worth it to warp the mana around for them. The SB cards are very good, especially in the Temur Energy match, so that might help the sell job. You could also consider Glorybringer (or even Whirler Virtuosos) over Hostage Taker in the MD.
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
I thought I would try tuning the main a little to have better game against control and randoms. Gonna see how the planeswalker package does, along with the Supreme Wills. Still on the gearhulk plan this week. If it doesn't go my way I'll look into alternatives. If I'm lucky I'll be able to find the 4th Blooming Marsh that I need...
Sideboard has mostly well-known choices. I tested against control on the weekend with Lifecrafter's Bestiary and it was insane. So much card quality and extra draw. Obelisk Spider is there for RR and Temur. Dunno if it'll pan out but no harm in trying. I'll report back either way!
That's interesting, re: Lifecrafter's Bestiary. What match-ups did you bring it in for?
When I was testing I played a bunch of games against Esper spells (all the removal, usually winning via Torment of Hailfire doubled by Primal Wellspring). Bestiary on turn 3 got me so many positive scrys, plus the extra draws from casting creatures, my hand never went below 5 cards and I always had gas.
I bring it in against any blue-based control - spells, Approach, UB. After boarding they tend to load up on creature removal, meaning once Bestiary lands they have next to no way to remove it (Cast Out / Ixalan's Binding are pretty much it, and those tend to go on dudes). I'm seriously considering finding room for 1 main because of much it improves the quality of every draw.
Well, that was a disappointing evening. 1-3 (beat the bye woo). Lost to mirror, Esper spells and RG Pummeler. My list is quoted a couple posts up.
Still I learned a few things:
1. Supreme Will was bad. Reactive (especially game 1) is not where I think we want to be.
2. Walkers were good value plays, and for now they've earned their spot in the main.
3. Green hulk is still a solid play. My sultai opponent stated that he prefers Scarab God at 5cc, but as I'm already running the 1 available to me hulk still fits in at the top of the curve. However, I don't know if they stay yet - I really need to look at my creature curve for early threat density.
4. Out of the board, Bestiary continues to be a house. The game I took against esper saw me with both of them on the field and he just couldn't keep up.
5. No comment on the spider as I never drew it (sided in for the Pummeler matchup).
6. I don't know how to board vs the mirror. This is the first time I've encountered it due to sporadic play schedule and I was totally unprepared. Gotta rectify that.
So far all I know for sure is the Supreme Wills come out. Right now I'm leaning toward a couple Kitesail Freebooters for another early value play. Any other changes will come from more testing and of course feedback.
Definitely put in at least 1 kitesail freebooter mb, with another 1-2 the sideboard. Please let me know how it goes. I loved it last FNM and kept pulling out my 3rd copy from the sideboard. I'm starting to feel like freebooter is the best turn 2 play the deck can make.
Freebooter ties into a snafu I realized the deck has, which Technowriter touched upon in the post immediately above. We want to be proactive in our first few turns. Yes, we can do this with creatures, but that isn't always the best way to fight some decks.
My observation is thus: we need to have more proactive early turn plays against the mirror, Temur and control. We don't tend to have a problem having ENOUGH cards, it's that playing them out asap can be somewhat awkward with 3 colors and a lot of creatures on the high end of the curve. We want to be disabling the above mentioned opponents on turns 1 and 2. It's why I got excited over Harsh Scrutiny. Just nab that Glorybringer before it becomes a problem while gaining incredibly value information, early game especially. Turns 3-5 we should already have some big threats in hand to play, or some card draw to find them. As they say, all things being equal, the player who spends the most mana wins the game. These turn 1-3 proactive cards help us keep the cards flowing out of our hands at more efficient pace while fighting some of our most dreaded cards. Even if we can't play these spells turn 1, it can fill the blossoming defense or fatal push slot sometimes used on turn 3. I think turn 3 2 drop+1 cost instant/sorcery is a very strong play for us. This gives us more opportunity for such.
My current discard/counter spell package is 2 Freebooter mb, sideboard: 1 Doomfall, 1 Duress, 2 Harsh Scrutiny, 1 Kitesail freebooter, 2 Negate, and 1 Essence scatter. I would expect to be running all of them or close to it against control, mirror and temur.
Good points JaishivaJai. And yes, your more thorough discussion of the early turns disruption approach is exactly where I was going. So much so, in fact, that I am seriously looking back in time to some of the old Rock deck lists from days gone by for inspiration (I posted a link in a post near the bottom of page 9). It's very much theorycrafting at this point, but I've started tinkering with a build that drops Winding Constrictor entirely, instead running the full 4 Kitesails, along with some number (3 ATM) of Harsh Scrutiny. The intent being to maximize plays that have value throughout the game (as much as snek is awesome early, it's a terrible topdeck).
Sadly we don't have Cabal Therapy, Pernicious Deed or Vampiric Tutor available to us, but I'm interested in trying out the tools we do have to mimic at least the disruptive element that Rock decks brought to the table, and pair it with the early beatdown potential from Cub and Siphoner. Hopefully in the next couple days I'll be able to get some game testing in and will have something more significant to post about it.
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I asked about carnage tyrant in the temur thread too, but I thought I'd ask here too since the decks are quite different and I'm curious.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You don't really want to make six land drops to resolve a Tyrant in this deck. It makes more sense in Temur, where it's usually significantly bigger than the rest of the board and where you have mana accelerants in Servant of the Conduit and Chandra, Torch of Defiance to power it out earlier and not need to hit a bunch of land drops.
The Scarab God is a better top-end / trump card on power level and cost, and if you want to play a trump that just puts a bunch of beef into play, I would look into Verdurous Gearhulk before Carnage Tyrant in this shell. But I would advise just sticking with the core plan of playing the format's most powerful 1-2 cmc cards instead of clunking things up with big bombs.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
I still feel like the deck is just extra-mediocre, but I don't feel like there are a lot of bad match-ups other than temur, but that might just be me.
If by extra mediocre, you mean stands a pretty good chance against all available popular decks I would agree. Our deck doesn't have too many incredible big finishers. The Scarab God is the big exception to this. If your not playing it, it's probably part of the problem. I'm still playing/advocating for 2 the Scarab god mb, but monetary cost is prohibitive. Still, the deck has a very interesting tempo/aggro/midrange feel when you consider the sideboard. The deck doesn't have much of an "ah-ha! I got you!" feel. It does have answers to everything and enough flexibility to combat the most prevalent archetypes.
I do agree with the Hostage taker bristling hydra split however. I was waiting due to cost, but I'm going to run a 4/1 hydra/hostage taker myself with one hostage taker in the sideboard. 3/2 Hydra/hostage taker sounds feasible as well, which will require more investigation. Hydra seems undervalued on this thread currently, but perhaps more competitive players are finding it less useful.
So because of that aspect, I've just built my deck to be really good at being the best mediocre deck it can be.
Personally, I want to play this deck, but have answers to Glorybringer. So I will be messing around with Sultai Red splashing for Harnessed Lightning and maybe some sideboard Chandra's Defeat.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Can't the deck fight Glorybringer some what without red? Vraska's Contempt obviously, I run 2 mb, 1 side. In the sideboard we can run Essence Scatter, also good against Ramunap red, Doomfall, and Harsh Scrutiny.
I had Harsh Scrutiny played against me at FNM the other night and it hurt. It's good against the bulk of the meta right now. Just play this before Temur's turn 5. We nab it if it's in their hand. If not, they probably still have a good target for us. Same can be said against our mirror match, and Ramunap Red. I'll fit at least 1 into the sideboard, maybe 2 if I like it. Honestly, this could fill that gap I've felt against Ramunap Red and the mirror matchup in creature removal. It hits things that Fatal Push can't touch, but is much cheaper than Vraska's Contempt.
Despite it's looks, it's never a dead card. At the very least we get to see their hand and scry 1. That's somewhat comparable to a Gitaxian Probe effect, but legal in standard.
I had essence Scatter in the sideboard before and didn't like it all that much. I like that this is only 1 mana investment, in a color with better mana support, and faster when we want speed in our answers.
One last note in fighting Glorybringer. Why not look at 2 The Scarab God main? The God leaves us with at least a giant threat that can dodge its and Chandra's ability. Seems good all the time.
The problem with comparing scarab god to glorybringer is that glorybringer gets ramped into and immediately starts attacking and affection the board. Scarab god gets gunned up on the ground and takes a turn or two for the advantage to start working. That being said, I did like him in the control match-ups, but those already seek pretty ok to me as long as we curve attune cub snake plus blossoming defense.
I also really like Vraska's Contempt. I go back and forth between 2 main and 1 main 1 side if I'm playing confiscation coup in the main.
I'm recently testing out a pair of maindeck Negates as well. I like having something in my list for game 1 against Approach/Gift/general control matchups, and it's never a totally useless card. Against RR if they see it in game 1 it could cause them to be hesitant about bringing Chandras for game 2, which is a nice psychological trick. Supreme Will might be a better/more flexible option; that's next on my agenda.
I really like the idea of Harsh Scrutiny. Preemptive removal against otherwise difficult threats seems solid, and the scry ensures that we get some value out of all the time. Dunno where I fit it in, but I'll try!
I'm thinking of putting in 2x viziers mb. What do u guys think? Copy a scarab god or glorybringer. For 4 mana, it's really versatile in this creature heavy meta. Even copies a taker otb n steal something else. Will take out 1 hydra n sacrab from my mb n try it out.
I'd say your better off leaving in Bristling Hydra and The Scarab God. They are threats in their own right. With Vizier of Many faces, there needs to already be a good creature on the board for you to copy it. You mention some good times to play it, but it's better to have a hydra or the scarab god a lot of the time. These cards are never bad when played on their own, Vizier can be. Possibly a sideboard card, but I can't see it taking the place of the cards you mentioned mb.
I then proceeded to play like a complete donkey and go an effective 1-2 (2-2, but a bye). I am going to try something closer to Seth's Pro Tour winning deck, but without Hydras, I can see the argument for not playing constrictors. When the Constrictor payoffs just die as 1 for 1s, like Constrictor, then I just want to play as many card advantage cards as possible. I start with Siphoner and Refiner.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
There have been 5-0 MTGO lists, but not with Constrictor. Typically they have run Servant like this one that t8ed GP POrtland. I speculate that when we stretch the mana for R, we need the extra fixing of Servant. Adding Servant costs either Constrictor or Constrictor payoffs to the point where Constrictor isn't worthwhile. But go ahead, prove me wrong and please report back, because when you do, I want to play your deck.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
4 Aether Hub
3 Blooming Marsh
4 Botanical Sanctum
1 Drowned Catacomb
4 Forest
1 Island
4 Swamp
Spells
3 Blossoming Defense
4 Fatal Push
2 Supreme Will
2 Vraska's Contempt
4 Attune with Aether
1 Nissa, Steward of Elements
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
Dudes
3 Bristling Hydra
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Rogue Refiner
1 The Scarab God
2 Verdurous Gearhulk
4 Winding Constrictor
1 Appetite for the Unnatural
1 Cartouche of Ambition
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
3 Duress
2 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1 Negate
1 Obelisk Spider
1 River's Rebuke
3 Walking Ballista
I thought I would try tuning the main a little to have better game against control and randoms. Gonna see how the planeswalker package does, along with the Supreme Wills. Still on the gearhulk plan this week. If it doesn't go my way I'll look into alternatives. If I'm lucky I'll be able to find the 4th Blooming Marsh that I need...
Sideboard has mostly well-known choices. I tested against control on the weekend with Lifecrafter's Bestiary and it was insane. So much card quality and extra draw. Obelisk Spider is there for RR and Temur. Dunno if it'll pan out but no harm in trying. I'll report back either way!
I played 2 Kitesail freebooter mb at my last fnm. They replaced my 2 walking ballista. I think this card can help us play winding constrictor profitably. It feels pretty good to drop kitesail as my first 2 drop, almost all the time. We peek at their hand and get their first removal spell out of it. If they have a second, we can hold up blossoming defense to protect kitesail against that one possibly. It's at least a good tempo play for us, scope out the hand while developing board presence, and slow down their removal for at least a turn. I played a 3rd copy in the side and went for it a couple of times.
I think Walking ballista now under performs in our deck. We don't have as many things that can place counters on it, and fatal push can take care of small creatures. Seems good against RR, but it can be in the side for them. Kitesail is still good against RR, and many other matchups we encounter.
I'm starting to see this deck as a kind of aggro/synergy deck, with a hidden tempo theme that needs to be explored. We have the freebooter, b. defense, Hydra, Rogue Refiner, Hostage taker and The scarab god, all good tempo cards. We can make our opponent's removal less optimal by playing creatures that negate it, or have etb triggers that gain us advantage even when removed.
I'm liking the idea of freebooter turn 2, turn 3 Rogue refiner or 2 drop+blossoming defense/push, followed by hostage taker or hydra. Adding freebooter also makes counter spells gain immense value. Let me nab your removal, then counterspell the removal you follow up with on freebooter. Taking removal out of someone else's hand in a deck that has hostage taker and blossoming defense seems absurd.
I finally got 2 hostage takers, and will get more if needed. I want to try out 3 kitesail freebooters alongside some hostage takers, b. defense and perhaps Supreme will, spell pierce or negate. I'll post a list after some more brewing.
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Rogue Refiner
4 Winding Constrictor
3 Walking Ballista
2 The Scarab God
2 Hostage Taker
2 Vraska, Relic Seeker
4 Attune with Aether
3 Fatal Push
3 Harnessed Lightning
2 Vraska's Contempt
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Canyon Slough
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
2 Chandra's Defeat
3 Duress
2 Negate
1 Nissa, Steward of Elements
1 Appetite for the Unnatural
3 Deathgorge Scavenger
1 Vraska's Contempt
1 Hour of Devastation
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
I am not at all convinced you need the Servants, nor do I think you need 4 each Push and H. Lightning; especially not with Ballistae in the deck. As I look at this though, I realize that the only R in the MD is the trio of burn spells and wonder if it's really worth it to warp the mana around for them. The SB cards are very good, especially in the Temur Energy match, so that might help the sell job. You could also consider Glorybringer (or even Whirler Virtuosos) over Hostage Taker in the MD.
That's interesting, re: Lifecrafter's Bestiary. What match-ups did you bring it in for?
I bring it in against any blue-based control - spells, Approach, UB. After boarding they tend to load up on creature removal, meaning once Bestiary lands they have next to no way to remove it (Cast Out / Ixalan's Binding are pretty much it, and those tend to go on dudes). I'm seriously considering finding room for 1 main because of much it improves the quality of every draw.
Still I learned a few things:
1. Supreme Will was bad. Reactive (especially game 1) is not where I think we want to be.
2. Walkers were good value plays, and for now they've earned their spot in the main.
3. Green hulk is still a solid play. My sultai opponent stated that he prefers Scarab God at 5cc, but as I'm already running the 1 available to me hulk still fits in at the top of the curve. However, I don't know if they stay yet - I really need to look at my creature curve for early threat density.
4. Out of the board, Bestiary continues to be a house. The game I took against esper saw me with both of them on the field and he just couldn't keep up.
5. No comment on the spider as I never drew it (sided in for the Pummeler matchup).
6. I don't know how to board vs the mirror. This is the first time I've encountered it due to sporadic play schedule and I was totally unprepared. Gotta rectify that.
So far all I know for sure is the Supreme Wills come out. Right now I'm leaning toward a couple Kitesail Freebooters for another early value play. Any other changes will come from more testing and of course feedback.
Freebooter ties into a snafu I realized the deck has, which Technowriter touched upon in the post immediately above. We want to be proactive in our first few turns. Yes, we can do this with creatures, but that isn't always the best way to fight some decks.
My observation is thus: we need to have more proactive early turn plays against the mirror, Temur and control. We don't tend to have a problem having ENOUGH cards, it's that playing them out asap can be somewhat awkward with 3 colors and a lot of creatures on the high end of the curve. We want to be disabling the above mentioned opponents on turns 1 and 2. It's why I got excited over Harsh Scrutiny. Just nab that Glorybringer before it becomes a problem while gaining incredibly value information, early game especially. Turns 3-5 we should already have some big threats in hand to play, or some card draw to find them. As they say, all things being equal, the player who spends the most mana wins the game. These turn 1-3 proactive cards help us keep the cards flowing out of our hands at more efficient pace while fighting some of our most dreaded cards. Even if we can't play these spells turn 1, it can fill the blossoming defense or fatal push slot sometimes used on turn 3. I think turn 3 2 drop+1 cost instant/sorcery is a very strong play for us. This gives us more opportunity for such.
My current discard/counter spell package is 2 Freebooter mb, sideboard: 1 Doomfall, 1 Duress, 2 Harsh Scrutiny, 1 Kitesail freebooter, 2 Negate, and 1 Essence scatter. I would expect to be running all of them or close to it against control, mirror and temur.
Current list:
4x Glint-sleeve Siphoner
4x Longtusk Cub
2x Kitesail freebooter
4x Rogue Refiner
1x Rishkar, Peema renegade
3x Bristling Hydra
2x Hostage Taker
2x The Scarab God
non-creature 12
3x Attune with Aether
3x Blossoming defense
4x Fatal Push
2x Vraska's Contempt
4x Aether Hub
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Botanical Sanctum
1x Fetid Pools
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Foul orchard
4x forest
2x swamp
1x Island
1x Blossoming Defense
1x Walking ballista
1x Vraska's contempt
1x Die young
1x Doomfall
2x Deathgorge Scavenger
2x Negate
1x Essence Scatter
1x Kitesail freebooter
1x Duress
2x Harsh Scrutiny
1x Lifecrafter's Bestiary
Sadly we don't have Cabal Therapy, Pernicious Deed or Vampiric Tutor available to us, but I'm interested in trying out the tools we do have to mimic at least the disruptive element that Rock decks brought to the table, and pair it with the early beatdown potential from Cub and Siphoner. Hopefully in the next couple days I'll be able to get some game testing in and will have something more significant to post about it.