I've be working on a BG build and here a few of my thoughts so far
• I like Festering Mummy better than Blisterpod. Often time you can use the -1/-1 counter to kill or nerf an opponent’s creature.
• Tested Decimator Beetle and it was just too slow, didn't do enough for the 5 cmc
• Hapatra is good but Nest of Scarabs seems better, yeah it costs more but it dumps more tokens out and is harder to remove. Hapatra dies to just about any removal at. I run 3 Hapatra 4 Nests
• I added in Baleful Ammit to SB for some of the quick R/G aggro out there but haven't had a chance to use it yet.
• Destined // Lead as a 1 or 2 can help push through damage. I have run into situations where you have 10 tokens but they have 4/5 dudes and attacking into that is hard to make it profitable.
• Altar's Reap is decent still looking for better card draw
• Croc is a Boss. That 5 hastey damage is very nice.
• Bone Splinters is good but I think I am cutting them for something that can deal w/ planeswalkers
• Any of the Gods are a pain. I'm sure they are for everyone, but short of double grasp I don't deck anything that can deal with them.
• I have been running Channeler and she is a nice back up to dump -1/-1 counters on but may cut them and try it with out.
Opinions on cards: Defiant Greatma - i find myself hard pressed to make this guy good. most of the stuff that comes in with multiple -1/-1 counters have mechanisms for removing them. most of the other cards only have 1 making him less impressive
Blisterpod - while the early ramp is nice i think we are better off with something that isnt such a poor drop after Turn 1
another pertinent questions is what do we consider core to the deck?
for me so far me that only seems to be Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons. I can't in good faith say Nest of Scarabs until i verify it isn't a liability due to its potential to be a dead card.
I have found Nest to be better than Hapatra in most instances. Haptra dies to just about every removal played there and/or can't get through blockers so just sits there. Also can't play multiples like nest can. Things can get crazy if the game goes late and you have multiple nests out. I only run 3 Hapatra MB now and have thought of cutting more for something more aggressive.
The removal and lack of duals are me being stubborn about spending money on MTGO. Overall, I'm surprised at how wide this goes. Nearly beat a t5 Ulamog with a nut draw (with Champion of Rhonas, so no on cast). Blisterpod is almost never ramp and mostly serves as counter fodder that doesn't cost a creature, so I could see trying Festering Mummy. Also surprised by the deck's ability to run without a token maker. Channeler and Exemplar both do alright keeping their own counters, and Blisterpod and Duskwatch Recruiter give me a few other places to put counters from the biggest baddies.
Due to aforementioned cheapness, I haven't tried Cryptolith Rites or Decimator of the Provinces but both seem even better now that I see how many tokens we're often making.
@residualshade
Heads up, Llanowar Wastes is no longer in standard. Not sure if it was a typo, supposed to be something else, etc., but thought I'd let you know.
What do you guys think of Dread Wanderer? I'm trying 4 of him and 4 Blisterpod and I really like that. He's a great way late game to dump the -1/-1 late game. I'm trying a bunch of different versions of the deck and I think the strongest play of the deck is Turn 1 Blisterpod into turn 2 Examplar into turn 3 Crocodile.
I think the Hapatra/Nest of Scarab is too slow for the current Meta. I'm currently testing a version with 4 Scrapheap Cronger and 4 Dread Wanderer.
I also think that this decks needs 4 Westvale Abbey.
@residualshade
Heads up, Llanowar Wastes is no longer in standard. Not sure if it was a typo, supposed to be something else, etc., but thought I'd let you know.
ya almost found out the hard way yesterday. luckily i played some casuals before the tournament started and my opponent pointed it out.
Habit mostly. Tend not to run playsets of utility lands. Seems like it's worth trying, though. I think I've only actually used it twice since I put the deck together.
Update: Managed to get a t5 Ormendahl against BG delirium. Gained a ton of life (~50), such that even after he ulted new Liliana and made me sacrifice it with To the Slaughter, I was able to make more tokens and make another Ormendahl. Ended up decking himself since he rezzed Ishkanah twice (so much reach), but he couldn't fight through my life total.
tl;dr: Westvale Abbey definitely does work and is not hard to turn on. Definitely gonna try upping the count.
I ran Dread Wanderer last night and it was quite the all-star. I don't care that is come into play tapped because normally I just use it for -1 counters dump. When he does attack the 2 power really is nice vs 1 (for mummy or pod) . Ran Throne of the God-Pharaoh. Seemed good, nothing special. Almost always was good for a few points of damage. Does anyone else have a problem where if you don't get a nest or Haptra to stick you feel like the deck just beats itself. Yeah I got this over powered guy but had to put counters on some other dude so am I really any better?? Also is anyone else running in troubles with the Gods. I played two white token decks with the white God and besides double Grasp of Darkness I had nothing to deal with it. Is there anything in G or B that can overcome the indestructibility?
My friend added Emrakul's Evangel to the deck, it makes for some wild end of turn shenanigans, or responses to removal...sac all the scarabs being removed by Dec in Stone to get 3/2 Eldrazi Horrors? Yes please!
My friend added Emrakul's Evangel to the deck, it makes for some wild end of turn shenanigans, or responses to removal...sac all the scarabs being removed by Dec in Stone to get 3/2 Eldrazi Horrors? Yes please!
I don't know, that seems too slow and conditional. It's a three drop that just sits there and does nothing unless someone targets it and you only really get + value if have already have bunch of tokens out. You can't attack with it and aren't really going to be able to block anything but 1/X creatures. I currently have nest @3 which 'does nothing' when it comes into play I don't think I'm going to want more which is only really good if someone tries to wipe out a bunch of tokens.
Whoever said Nest is slow hasn't tried it. But your pile of tokens would appreciate a Nissa to pump them or something like that. My problem is what to do when Nest doesn't show up. Is this still a deck in that scenario? And that's why I don't like a card such as Emrakul's Evangel. If Nest shows up things are already good. If Nest doesn't show, this card doesn't really help.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
Whoever said Nest is slow hasn't tried it. But your pile of tokens would appreciate a Nissa to pump them or something like that. My problem is what to do when Nest doesn't show up. Is this still a deck in that scenario? And that's why I don't like a card such as Emrakul's Evangel. If Nest shows up things are already good. If Nest doesn't show, this card doesn't really help.
I agree Nest of Scarabs is not slow, just people doesn't like do nothing cards on turn 3. But truth to the matter the concept I feel people are looking at all wrong. Why not be a B/G tokens deck? Play Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Liliana, Death's Majesty as token generators along with Nest of Scarabs. And your creatures should consist of Yahenni, Undying Partisan just to giggle at the zombie decks and being indestructible against board wipes seems good. Plague Belcher is an Amazing 3 drop when you can dump the counters on something else. Playing Nissa, Voice of Zendikar turn 3 and dropping plague belcher turn 4 with a revolted Fatal Push sounds amazing to me. I feel that in that way Seasons Past or some other card advantage engine should be implemented.
If tokens is the plan, then Catacomb Sifter makes sense, and now we have an extra tool to find the good cards. Yahenni makes sense if we have enough things that dump minuses on the enemy creatures. I don't really know, some serious innovation is needed to make a consistently powerful deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
If tokens is the plan, then Catacomb Sifter makes sense, and now we have an extra tool to find the good cards. Yahenni makes sense if we have enough things that dump minuses on the enemy creatures. I don't really know, some serious innovation is needed to make a consistently powerful deck.
Funny thing is, Bringing back a channeler initiate or Exemplar of Strength with Liliana while a Nest of Scarabs on board seems kind of bonkers. But I think the deck is missing a draw engine. Seasons Past or even a Rishkar Expertise seems like stretches, but having Nissa helpa drop low mana fatties is great, I am trying to maximize Westvale Abbey, the deck can grind through some stuff, going wide with tokens and adding Destined//Lead is funny
I would almost certainly swap at least 1 Dunes for one Abbey. It just wins games and it's not that hard to turn on. A lot of your numbers look similar to mine. How have you been feeling about Throne of the God-Pharaoh? I'd considered it, but it struck me that getting tapped tokens to stay on the board might be tricky (due to being blocked and killed). Also curious if you feel like that's enough removal. I've been running 4 Splendid Agony and 1 Never in my budget version, and I often wish it was a little more flexible/powerful.
Funny thing is, Bringing back a channeler initiate or Exemplar of Strength with Liliana while a Nest of Scarabs on board seems kind of bonkers. But I think the deck is missing a draw engine. Seasons Past or even a Rishkar Expertise seems like stretches, but having Nissa helpa drop low mana fatties is great, I am trying to maximize Westvale Abbey, the deck can grind through some stuff, going wide with tokens and adding Destined//Lead is funny
My point was, Nest of Scarabs is kind of bonkers in the deck. But you need a plan for the "don't have Nest" scenario. Remember that's the scenario where you aren't getting tons of Scarab tokens. Nissa 3-drop is fine. If she means getting a 4/4 Exemplar on turn 4, that's fine but nothing extraordinary. That line goes against the Westvale plan. If going wide is your goal, then I would switch to Abzan. Adding white gives you have options of Hidden Stockpile, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Oath of Ajani, Angel of Invention, Servo Exhibition, Sram's Expertise.
Now if you want to stick to BG, Nissa and Zulaport Cutthroat are about the only cards who reward you for having lots of tokens. Well, there's also Ulvenwald Mysteries who will generate tokens and card draw for all the creatures you're casting, and Second Harvest to really outnumber them. And yes, casting Lead of Destined // Lead on a 0/1 plant is hilarious.
One more thing: Everybody is missing out on Bone Picker. It's perfect for a deck that's killing chaff with -1/-1 counters.
• I like Festering Mummy better than Blisterpod. Often time you can use the -1/-1 counter to kill or nerf an opponent’s creature.
• Tested Decimator Beetle and it was just too slow, didn't do enough for the 5 cmc
• Hapatra is good but Nest of Scarabs seems better, yeah it costs more but it dumps more tokens out and is harder to remove. Hapatra dies to just about any removal at. I run 3 Hapatra 4 Nests
• I added in Baleful Ammit to SB for some of the quick R/G aggro out there but haven't had a chance to use it yet.
• Destined // Lead as a 1 or 2 can help push through damage. I have run into situations where you have 10 tokens but they have 4/5 dudes and attacking into that is hard to make it profitable.
• Altar's Reap is decent still looking for better card draw
• Croc is a Boss. That 5 hastey damage is very nice.
• Bone Splinters is good but I think I am cutting them for something that can deal w/ planeswalkers
• Any of the Gods are a pain. I'm sure they are for everyone, but short of double grasp I don't deck anything that can deal with them.
• I have been running Channeler and she is a nice back up to dump -1/-1 counters on but may cut them and try it with out.
September. I can never remember, so I bookmarked http://whatsinstandard.com/
4 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons
4 Channeler Initiate
4 Exemplar of Strength
4 Baleful Ammit
3 Soulstinger
2 Decimator Beetle
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Cut // Ribbons
Other(4):
4 Nest of Scarabs
Lands(23):
4 Game Trail
4 Cinder Glade
4 Smoldering Marsh
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Forest
Opinions on cards:
Defiant Greatma - i find myself hard pressed to make this guy good. most of the stuff that comes in with multiple -1/-1 counters have mechanisms for removing them. most of the other cards only have 1 making him less impressive
Blisterpod - while the early ramp is nice i think we are better off with something that isnt such a poor drop after Turn 1
for me so far me that only seems to be Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons. I can't in good faith say Nest of Scarabs until i verify it isn't a liability due to its potential to be a dead card.
Yeah, I really like the decktype as a whole so I decided to create an actual primer for it, rather than just a decklist thread.
Wrote a primer for this decktype here.
Largely I think our core is the following:
I personally consider Blisterpod to be vital, but the above are the most relevant aspects of the deck (as Golgari).
Anyway, here's the quick list I threw together on MTGO.
4 Blisterpod
4 Channeler Initiate
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Exemplar of Strength
3 Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons
4 Plague Belcher
2 Defiant Greatmaw
3 Crocodile of the Crossing
4 Nest of Scarabs
4 Spendid Agony
1 Cartouche of Strength
1 Never
Lands
11 Swamp
10 Forest
2 Westvale Abbey
The removal and lack of duals are me being stubborn about spending money on MTGO. Overall, I'm surprised at how wide this goes. Nearly beat a t5 Ulamog with a nut draw (with Champion of Rhonas, so no on cast). Blisterpod is almost never ramp and mostly serves as counter fodder that doesn't cost a creature, so I could see trying Festering Mummy. Also surprised by the deck's ability to run without a token maker. Channeler and Exemplar both do alright keeping their own counters, and Blisterpod and Duskwatch Recruiter give me a few other places to put counters from the biggest baddies.
Due to aforementioned cheapness, I haven't tried Cryptolith Rites or Decimator of the Provinces but both seem even better now that I see how many tokens we're often making.
R.I.P. Wash
Don't click this. I mean it. No, seriously. I said not to click it. The world might blow up. Even if you just think about it. BOOM. See? The whole world could've just blown up and it would've been all your fault. Just don't click this.
Heads up, Llanowar Wastes is no longer in standard. Not sure if it was a typo, supposed to be something else, etc., but thought I'd let you know.
R.I.P. Wash
Don't click this. I mean it. No, seriously. I said not to click it. The world might blow up. Even if you just think about it. BOOM. See? The whole world could've just blown up and it would've been all your fault. Just don't click this.
I think the Hapatra/Nest of Scarab is too slow for the current Meta. I'm currently testing a version with 4 Scrapheap Cronger and 4 Dread Wanderer.
I also think that this decks needs 4 Westvale Abbey.
ya almost found out the hard way yesterday. luckily i played some casuals before the tournament started and my opponent pointed it out.
bad magiccardinfo searches for the DQ
Update: Managed to get a t5 Ormendahl against BG delirium. Gained a ton of life (~50), such that even after he ulted new Liliana and made me sacrifice it with To the Slaughter, I was able to make more tokens and make another Ormendahl. Ended up decking himself since he rezzed Ishkanah twice (so much reach), but he couldn't fight through my life total.
tl;dr: Westvale Abbey definitely does work and is not hard to turn on. Definitely gonna try upping the count.
R.I.P. Wash
Don't click this. I mean it. No, seriously. I said not to click it. The world might blow up. Even if you just think about it. BOOM. See? The whole world could've just blown up and it would've been all your fault. Just don't click this.
I don't know, that seems too slow and conditional. It's a three drop that just sits there and does nothing unless someone targets it and you only really get + value if have already have bunch of tokens out. You can't attack with it and aren't really going to be able to block anything but 1/X creatures. I currently have nest @3 which 'does nothing' when it comes into play I don't think I'm going to want more which is only really good if someone tries to wipe out a bunch of tokens.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
I agree Nest of Scarabs is not slow, just people doesn't like do nothing cards on turn 3. But truth to the matter the concept I feel people are looking at all wrong. Why not be a B/G tokens deck? Play Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Liliana, Death's Majesty as token generators along with Nest of Scarabs. And your creatures should consist of Yahenni, Undying Partisan just to giggle at the zombie decks and being indestructible against board wipes seems good. Plague Belcher is an Amazing 3 drop when you can dump the counters on something else. Playing Nissa, Voice of Zendikar turn 3 and dropping plague belcher turn 4 with a revolted Fatal Push sounds amazing to me. I feel that in that way Seasons Past or some other card advantage engine should be implemented.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Funny thing is, Bringing back a channeler initiate or Exemplar of Strength with Liliana while a Nest of Scarabs on board seems kind of bonkers. But I think the deck is missing a draw engine. Seasons Past or even a Rishkar Expertise seems like stretches, but having Nissa helpa drop low mana fatties is great, I am trying to maximize Westvale Abbey, the deck can grind through some stuff, going wide with tokens and adding Destined//Lead is funny
R.I.P. Wash
Don't click this. I mean it. No, seriously. I said not to click it. The world might blow up. Even if you just think about it. BOOM. See? The whole world could've just blown up and it would've been all your fault. Just don't click this.
My point was, Nest of Scarabs is kind of bonkers in the deck. But you need a plan for the "don't have Nest" scenario. Remember that's the scenario where you aren't getting tons of Scarab tokens. Nissa 3-drop is fine. If she means getting a 4/4 Exemplar on turn 4, that's fine but nothing extraordinary. That line goes against the Westvale plan. If going wide is your goal, then I would switch to Abzan. Adding white gives you have options of Hidden Stockpile, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Oath of Ajani, Angel of Invention, Servo Exhibition, Sram's Expertise.
Now if you want to stick to BG, Nissa and Zulaport Cutthroat are about the only cards who reward you for having lots of tokens. Well, there's also Ulvenwald Mysteries who will generate tokens and card draw for all the creatures you're casting, and Second Harvest to really outnumber them. And yes, casting Lead of Destined // Lead on a 0/1 plant is hilarious.
One more thing: Everybody is missing out on Bone Picker. It's perfect for a deck that's killing chaff with -1/-1 counters.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG