I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with your mana base. 22 lands even with 4 copies of attune when you are wanting to be able to hit 6 lands t6 while maintaining open mana for your counter package seems sketchy at best. I could be way off, it just seems awkward to me. Again, my off the top of my head math could be way off. I do agree with your thoughts on flames over suns in this case as well. The only downside is the possibility of a dead card pending on matchup while suns is never dead. That being the only downside though...
I've noticed that people aren't talking about this deck anymore. Why is that? A lack of showing at big events? Do we just roll over and die to a new meta upstart? Or is the list solved and there's nothing to talk about?
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
I've noticed that people aren't talking about this deck anymore. Why is that? A lack of showing at big events? Do we just roll over and die to a new meta upstart? Or is the list solved and there's nothing to talk about?
From what I'm seeing, it's been pretty rough for this deck overall. RGx energy and BG constrictor are gaining momentum, and they're awful matchups for this deck. Also, it's simply not strong enough, to the point where even Marvel (the deck it is supposed to beat) is teching succesfully against it.
Could be wrong, though. If so, I'd love some tips on this deck, especially on how to beat RGx aggro in general.
What is there to say really that hasn't already been said?
..and it's still a beast of a deck.
I'm 10-2 in official rounds, and 27-11 in games.
Uh, what? Could you post your decklist and some results of your games, going more in-depth, please? Because my results with it have been pretty abysmal (going mostly against rgx energy aggro, br aggro and mardu).
I've been running Jeskai Control since the new standard season started and while it hasn't preformed as well I as I would prefer; it has been decent to the point that the only deck in my meta that has given me trouble is Mardu. Mostly due to the fact that they can have real fast starts and I need to have my answers line up just right for me to start to pull ahead and stabilize. My biggest issue has been that I've been pulling in more and more draws as most matches have been going to time. There are quit a few people in my meta that are playing; B/G Energy; R/G Gods or R/G Energy; so for me running W has really helped by giving me answers to some of their troubling cards. i.e. Cast Out; stasis snare; fumigate; spell queller (additional threat and exile effect) for example. I also run Radiant Flames; since there are times when I prefer a 2 damage sweeper.
U/R Control is still a good deck; the problem as I see it is that the meta has adjusted to Marvel and has moved to faster decks that can get under Marvel or apply enough pressure on the Marvel decks to where it is Ullamog or bust by turn 4 or 5. They are also packing more SB hate for dealing with Marvel or Ullamog and most of the same hate for Marvel is effective against U/R control due to the lack of threats that it runs. All this puts a lot of pressure on U/R Control to have the right answer each of the first 4 or 5 turns.
Psy
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Currently Playing:
Jeskai Control:42-23-5 Elves: 44-31-3 Red-Aggro: 18-9-0 B/G Energy 21-6-0
I haven't top-8 a single standard showdown in a month and barely going 2-2 on FNMs. Also tried CFB 24 land version with even worse results. Got demotivated and decided to take a few weeks break from Magic.
From my experience the deck is too slow, lacks universal answers and has not enough threats. A single resolved creature can beat you up even if you deal with anything else after. Most relevant creatures have ETB triggers now, or you can't even spray them before they crew a vehicle. I've been consistently 0-2 vs any Mardu deck in existence. Also too slow vs Marvel. Rushed out gearhulks get countered or Harnessed, slow and careful gearhulks fall to hardcasted Ulamog (or even two in a row).
Maybe I'm just really bad, but I'm not having fun with this deck anymore. In addition to that a lot of people constantly whine about control and blue mages even while they 2-0 me. Doesn't add to the enjoyment of the game
IMO, control is still very unfavoured by design nowadays, despite people saying otherwise. Threats like Gideon and HoK are absurdly hard to deal with, and something like Lightning Strike is apparently too much to ask for.
I've been running Jeskai Control since the new standard season started and while it hasn't preformed as well I as I would prefer; it has been decent to the point that the only deck in my meta that has given me trouble is Mardu. Mostly due to the fact that they can have real fast starts and I need to have my answers line up just right for me to start to pull ahead and stabilize. My biggest issue has been that I've been pulling in more and more draws as most matches have been going to time. There are quit a few people in my meta that are playing; B/G Energy; R/G Gods or R/G Energy; so for me running W has really helped by giving me answers to some of their troubling cards. i.e. Cast Out; stasis snare; fumigate; spell queller (additional threat and exile effect) for example. I also run Radiant Flames; since there are times when I prefer a 2 damage sweeper.
U/R Control is still a good deck; the problem as I see it is that the meta has adjusted to Marvel and has moved to faster decks that can get under Marvel or apply enough pressure on the Marvel decks to where it is Ullamog or bust by turn 4 or 5. They are also packing more SB hate for dealing with Marvel or Ullamog and most of the same hate for Marvel is effective against U/R control due to the lack of threats that it runs. All this puts a lot of pressure on U/R Control to have the right answer each of the first 4 or 5 turns.
Psy
Exactly how I feel. Been running U/R for a while now, and if you don't have the right cards by turn 3 (not even t4 against some decks, you're at 9 or less health by then), you're dead.
Also, most of the individual power level of the cards are too low. We live in a Standard environment where Longtusk Cub, Scrounger, Bristling Hydra, etc. are a thing (hell, rogue refiner is considered a mediocre card). And while they have that, we have to content with draw spells that only work on turn 4, and situational removal/counter.
While the deck itself is good, I feel like it needs a lot more power in order to adapt to the current meta.
Could you post your decklist and some results of your games, going more in-depth, please? Because my results with it have been pretty abysmal (going mostly against rgx energy aggro, br aggro and mardu).
Match breakdown is irrelevant because my meta is not the same as yours. I don't constantly play against Marvel/Mardu/Energy decks.
Could you post your decklist and some results of your games, going more in-depth, please? Because my results with it have been pretty abysmal (going mostly against rgx energy aggro, br aggro and mardu).
Match breakdown is irrelevant because my meta is not the same as yours. I don't constantly play against Marvel/Mardu/Energy decks.
Well if you're playing against tier 3 and 4 decks of course you're going to do well with a tier 1.5 build. That's kind of what tier 1.5 MEANS.
If marvel and mardu and temur energy just don't show up locally, then you likely live in a very impoverished meta, and almost anything cohesive would put up those kinds of numbers. It doesn't mean much.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
If marvel and mardu and temur energy just don't show up locally, then you likely live in a very impoverished meta, and almost anything cohesive would put up those kinds of numbers. It doesn't mean much.
Oh, okay. Thanks for straightening me out and asserting your dominance
With the Marvel banning I feel U/R/x control looks great. I expect a resurgence in aggro for a few weeks and cards like Radiant Flames will be very good going forward. Dynavolt Tower should also be a lot better as we'll need to shore up our Mardu Vehicles matchups.
With the Marvel banning I feel U/R/x control looks great. I expect a resurgence in aggro for a few weeks and cards like Radiant Flames will be very good going forward. Dynavolt Tower should also be a lot better as we'll need to shore up our Mardu Vehicles matchups.
Disagree. Both mardu (especially blue) and GB are usually too fast/too resilient against whatever UR throws at them. Hell, UR even has a tough game against Grx energy, and when those are the prime decks of the format (remember, UR was an option to counter marvel), there is no way UR will thrive.
Unless, of course, HOU brings a lot of good stuff for the deck, which I doubt.
Time to jump on Grixis Control in anticipation of Nicol Bolas. Bust out those Transgress the Minds!
Fun little synergy: t4 chandra ToD allows you to play Bolas t5 with her +1.
Thing is, she is terrible on a draw-go control deck, you'll need to build a tap-out control on blue somehow.
I've started playing UR control few weeks ago and went 7-0-2 in matches in last 3 local tournaments (played vs mirror & esper control, vs jund gods, vs mardu machines, etc)
One interesting thing I've found is that my sideboard plans all had one thing in common:
-4 Torrential Gearhulk
-3 Censor (I play only 3)
-something else, depending on matchup
+4 Thing in the Ice
+2 Dragonmaster Outcast
+4 Dispel
+1 Negate
+something else
So, what your thoughts on siding out all gearhulks and becoming more lighter tempo deck?
I've started playing UR control few weeks ago and went 7-0-2 in matches in last 3 local tournaments (played vs mirror & esper control, vs jund gods, vs mardu machines, etc)
One interesting thing I've found is that my sideboard plans all had one thing in common:
-4 Torrential Gearhulk
-3 Censor (I play only 3)
-something else, depending on matchup
+4 Thing in the Ice
+2 Dragonmaster Outcast
+4 Dispel
+1 Negate
+something else
So, what your thoughts on siding out all gearhulks and becoming more lighter tempo deck?
I don't have a ton of experience with your deck so I can't say for certain, but I wouldn't at all be surprised to find the reason your sideboard works so well is no one is keeping in small removal against you, which is what you promptly side into. If they're keeping fatal push, harnessed lightning and/or grasp of darkness game 2 you'll probably have a much rougher time
I've started playing UR control few weeks ago and went 7-0-2 in matches in last 3 local tournaments (played vs mirror & esper control, vs jund gods, vs mardu machines, etc)
One interesting thing I've found is that my sideboard plans all had one thing in common:
-4 Torrential Gearhulk
-3 Censor (I play only 3)
-something else, depending on matchup
+4 Thing in the Ice
+2 Dragonmaster Outcast
+4 Dispel
+1 Negate
+something else
So, what your thoughts on siding out all gearhulks and becoming more lighter tempo deck?
I don't like it. Against good competition they know you do this. Whenever I play Online Qualifiers or Competitive Leagues, people keep in their cheap removal for g2 expecting exactly this. I do have to question the level of competition you have been playing against if this strategy works. If you want to actually go the "tempo" route, I would run 2-4 Stormchaser Mage and cut the DragonMaster Outcast.
I have been having good success with a few 3-2 and 4-1 finishes recently (since Marvel ban) in competitive league's and qualifiers online. Here is my list.
I am planning on giving Dynavolt Tower a try. The card is great against midrange decks, and that seems to be the theme of current decks. It also deals with the pesky x/3's in the format AND Planeswalkers (which the deck sucks against) including all these creatures:
That doesn't even include all the x/2 it kills off of a Glimmer or one of our counter spells. I think it could have a great place (again) in a deck like this, where Planeswalkers and out of range of Magma Spray cards just do work against us.
I've started playing UR control few weeks ago and went 7-0-2 in matches in last 3 local tournaments (played vs mirror & esper control, vs jund gods, vs mardu machines, etc)
One interesting thing I've found is that my sideboard plans all had one thing in common:
-4 Torrential Gearhulk
-3 Censor (I play only 3)
-something else, depending on matchup
+4 Thing in the Ice
+2 Dragonmaster Outcast
+4 Dispel
+1 Negate
+something else
So, what your thoughts on siding out all gearhulks and becoming more lighter tempo deck?
I don't like it. Against good competition they know you do this. Whenever I play Online Qualifiers or Competitive Leagues, people keep in their cheap removal for g2 expecting exactly this. I do have to question the level of competition you have been playing against if this strategy works. If you want to actually go the "tempo" route, I would run 2-4 Stormchaser Mage and cut the DragonMaster Outcast.
I have been having good success with a few 3-2 and 4-1 finishes recently (since Marvel ban) in competitive league's and qualifiers online. Here is my list.
I am planning on giving Dynavolt Tower a try. The card is great against midrange decks, and that seems to be the theme of current decks. It also deals with the pesky x/3's in the format AND Planeswalkers (which the deck sucks against) including all these creatures:
That doesn't even include all the x/2 it kills off of a Glimmer or one of our counter spells. I think it could have a great place (again) in a deck like this, where Planeswalkers and out of range of Magma Spray cards just do work against us.
Interesting list. Has Chandra been working for you? Because at first glance, she seems kinda weird in a draw-go control deck like this.
Also, which matchups would you say are the hardest for this deck? And which cards would you remove for Dynavolt Tower?
Interesting list. Has Chandra been working for you? Because at first glance, she seems kinda weird in a draw-go control deck like this.
Also, which matchups would you say are the hardest for this deck? And which cards would you remove for Dynavolt Tower?
Chandra works well, but I take her our in a fair amount of matchups. She is fantastic in the mirror, she is great if you can play her on an "empty" board or a board with a single x/4 (or less toughness) creature. Her ability to kill a lot of the 3 toughness threats I mentioned earlier, pound 2 against a resolved walker, or get a hulk on line turn 5 can be great.
You are right, she does seem awkward in a draw-go style deck, but I only cast her when the board is clear, and as a 1-of I don't see her often, but when I do, I am generally happy. Her versatility allows her to shine in many games, especially in the mid-late game.
The toughest matchups are Mardu Vehicles and BG variants. The BG variants (Counters and Energy) can grind extremely well, and then the creatures get out of range of magma spray/harnessed lightning. This deck does great against zombies (I don't think I've lost a match), has a decent matchup against Temur Energy. Ironically, Chandra does a very good job against both our weakest matchups.
Edit: For the Tower, I would take out 1 anticipate, 1 censor, and I am unsure of the last card. Perhaps it is moving Chandra to the sideboard.
What're everyone's thoughts on a grixis tap-out control shell? I'm thinking heavy on removal (so black central) and planeswalkers, functionally pretty similar to the W/B tap out control of EMN. Top end maybe 3 gearhulks, one of each new god, and one god Pharaoh?
Please don't talk about new cards outside of Standard New Card Discussion until the entire set is spoiled. Thanks! -- Lugger
What're everyone's thoughts on a grixis tap-out control shell? I'm thinking heavy on removal (so black central) and planeswalkers, functionally pretty similar to the W/B tap out control of EMN. Top end maybe 3 gearhulks, one of each new god, and one god Pharaoh?
I don't know, I think the scarab God outclass the locust god by a huge margin. Maybe 2 of him if you're not running other creatures (which would be weird, not running even Glorybringers), otherwise just 1.
Maybe you'd play nicol bolas, but honestly I think scarab god is such a beast it might be worth running just him.
I think UR is poised to be great this set. Hour of Devastation and the synergy with gearhulk being a 5/6 is incredible in this meta. Abrade is great as well. Straight UR may be the best way to go.
Standard:
UR Control
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
From what I'm seeing, it's been pretty rough for this deck overall. RGx energy and BG constrictor are gaining momentum, and they're awful matchups for this deck. Also, it's simply not strong enough, to the point where even Marvel (the deck it is supposed to beat) is teching succesfully against it.
Could be wrong, though. If so, I'd love some tips on this deck, especially on how to beat RGx aggro in general.
..and it's still a beast of a deck.
I'm 10-2 in official rounds, and 27-11 in games.
Uh, what? Could you post your decklist and some results of your games, going more in-depth, please? Because my results with it have been pretty abysmal (going mostly against rgx energy aggro, br aggro and mardu).
U/R Control is still a good deck; the problem as I see it is that the meta has adjusted to Marvel and has moved to faster decks that can get under Marvel or apply enough pressure on the Marvel decks to where it is Ullamog or bust by turn 4 or 5. They are also packing more SB hate for dealing with Marvel or Ullamog and most of the same hate for Marvel is effective against U/R control due to the lack of threats that it runs. All this puts a lot of pressure on U/R Control to have the right answer each of the first 4 or 5 turns.
Psy
Jeskai Control:42-23-5
Elves: 44-31-3
Red-Aggro: 18-9-0
B/G Energy 21-6-0
Previous Played:
G/r Ramp:125-72-3 - Bant CoCo:64-24-2 - Jeskai Saheeli: 62-25-4 - Mono Green Eldrazi: 22-11-2
Bant Aggro: 51-27-6 - U/W/g Midrange: 47-24-1 - Bant: 4-3-0
From my experience the deck is too slow, lacks universal answers and has not enough threats. A single resolved creature can beat you up even if you deal with anything else after. Most relevant creatures have ETB triggers now, or you can't even spray them before they crew a vehicle. I've been consistently 0-2 vs any Mardu deck in existence. Also too slow vs Marvel. Rushed out gearhulks get countered or Harnessed, slow and careful gearhulks fall to hardcasted Ulamog (or even two in a row).
Maybe I'm just really bad, but I'm not having fun with this deck anymore. In addition to that a lot of people constantly whine about control and blue mages even while they 2-0 me. Doesn't add to the enjoyment of the game
IMO, control is still very unfavoured by design nowadays, despite people saying otherwise. Threats like Gideon and HoK are absurdly hard to deal with, and something like Lightning Strike is apparently too much to ask for.
Modern: UR Bloo
Exactly how I feel. Been running U/R for a while now, and if you don't have the right cards by turn 3 (not even t4 against some decks, you're at 9 or less health by then), you're dead.
Also, most of the individual power level of the cards are too low. We live in a Standard environment where Longtusk Cub, Scrounger, Bristling Hydra, etc. are a thing (hell, rogue refiner is considered a mediocre card). And while they have that, we have to content with draw spells that only work on turn 4, and situational removal/counter.
While the deck itself is good, I feel like it needs a lot more power in order to adapt to the current meta.
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
3 Dynavolt Tower
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 Magma Spray
2 Sweltering Suns
3 Disallow
1 Void Shatter
3 Censor
2 Negate
1 Essence Scatter
1 Commit // Memory
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Anticipate
1 Pull from Tomorrow
4 Wandering Fumarole
10 Island
4 Mountain
4 Aether Hub
2 Imprisoned in the Moon
1 Negate
1 Essence Scatter
1 Sweltering Suns
1 Brutal Expulsion
2 Thing in the Ice
1 Summary Dismissal
2 Dispel
2 By Force
Well if you're playing against tier 3 and 4 decks of course you're going to do well with a tier 1.5 build. That's kind of what tier 1.5 MEANS.
If marvel and mardu and temur energy just don't show up locally, then you likely live in a very impoverished meta, and almost anything cohesive would put up those kinds of numbers. It doesn't mean much.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Disagree. Both mardu (especially blue) and GB are usually too fast/too resilient against whatever UR throws at them. Hell, UR even has a tough game against Grx energy, and when those are the prime decks of the format (remember, UR was an option to counter marvel), there is no way UR will thrive.
Unless, of course, HOU brings a lot of good stuff for the deck, which I doubt.
Please don't talk about spoiled cards until the entire set is spoiled. You talk about them in the Standard New Card Discussion Forum.--Lugger
Fun little synergy: t4 chandra ToD allows you to play Bolas t5 with her +1.
Thing is, she is terrible on a draw-go control deck, you'll need to build a tap-out control on blue somehow.
One interesting thing I've found is that my sideboard plans all had one thing in common:
-4 Torrential Gearhulk
-3 Censor (I play only 3)
-something else, depending on matchup
+4 Thing in the Ice
+2 Dragonmaster Outcast
+4 Dispel
+1 Negate
+something else
So, what your thoughts on siding out all gearhulks and becoming more lighter tempo deck?
I don't have a ton of experience with your deck so I can't say for certain, but I wouldn't at all be surprised to find the reason your sideboard works so well is no one is keeping in small removal against you, which is what you promptly side into. If they're keeping fatal push, harnessed lightning and/or grasp of darkness game 2 you'll probably have a much rougher time
I don't like it. Against good competition they know you do this. Whenever I play Online Qualifiers or Competitive Leagues, people keep in their cheap removal for g2 expecting exactly this. I do have to question the level of competition you have been playing against if this strategy works. If you want to actually go the "tempo" route, I would run 2-4 Stormchaser Mage and cut the DragonMaster Outcast.
I have been having good success with a few 3-2 and 4-1 finishes recently (since Marvel ban) in competitive league's and qualifiers online. Here is my list.
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 Magma Spray
3 Sweltering Suns
3 Disallow
1 Void Shatter
4 Censor
1 Negate
2 Essence Scatter
1 horribly awry
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Hieroglyphic Illumination
2 Anticipate
1 Pull from Tomorrow
4 Wandering Fumarole
9 Island
4 Mountain
4 Aether Hub
2 Dispel
3 Negate
1 Essence Scatter
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
2 incendiary flow
2 Thing in the Ice
2 magma spray
I am planning on giving Dynavolt Tower a try. The card is great against midrange decks, and that seems to be the theme of current decks. It also deals with the pesky x/3's in the format AND Planeswalkers (which the deck sucks against) including all these creatures:
That doesn't even include all the x/2 it kills off of a Glimmer or one of our counter spells. I think it could have a great place (again) in a deck like this, where Planeswalkers and out of range of Magma Spray cards just do work against us.
Interesting list. Has Chandra been working for you? Because at first glance, she seems kinda weird in a draw-go control deck like this.
Also, which matchups would you say are the hardest for this deck? And which cards would you remove for Dynavolt Tower?
Chandra works well, but I take her our in a fair amount of matchups. She is fantastic in the mirror, she is great if you can play her on an "empty" board or a board with a single x/4 (or less toughness) creature. Her ability to kill a lot of the 3 toughness threats I mentioned earlier, pound 2 against a resolved walker, or get a hulk on line turn 5 can be great.
You are right, she does seem awkward in a draw-go style deck, but I only cast her when the board is clear, and as a 1-of I don't see her often, but when I do, I am generally happy. Her versatility allows her to shine in many games, especially in the mid-late game.
The toughest matchups are Mardu Vehicles and BG variants. The BG variants (Counters and Energy) can grind extremely well, and then the creatures get out of range of magma spray/harnessed lightning. This deck does great against zombies (I don't think I've lost a match), has a decent matchup against Temur Energy. Ironically, Chandra does a very good job against both our weakest matchups.
Edit: For the Tower, I would take out 1 anticipate, 1 censor, and I am unsure of the last card. Perhaps it is moving Chandra to the sideboard.
Please don't talk about new cards outside of Standard New Card Discussion until the entire set is spoiled. Thanks! -- Lugger
I don't know, I think the scarab God outclass the locust god by a huge margin. Maybe 2 of him if you're not running other creatures (which would be weird, not running even Glorybringers), otherwise just 1.
Maybe you'd play nicol bolas, but honestly I think scarab god is such a beast it might be worth running just him.
Nicol Bolas.
Modern - Living End
Main EDH Generals
- Mayael the Anima Fatty Fun - Zedruu Political Multiplayer
- Jeleva Oops All Spells - Roon the Bouncing Rhino
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes