Plenty of people are playing Saheeli, and it looks like the 4 color one is the least susceptible to disruption with all the cards with ETB abilities it plays gives it a respectable grind game and give more incidental value to the combo pieces. Did anyone catch any interesting decks?
This new standard with the infinite combo on everyone's mind seems fantastic. By forcing everyone to respect it, it creates a situation where each deck needs to have some minimal amount of interaction that they may not have normally played.
By far the most interesting deck was Joe Losette's Blue/Black Tezzeret Colossus build featuring Gonti's Aether Heart.
I heard that two Colossus decks were on stream. I also heard that Joe went 4-4 drop which is pretty terrible considering that he had two byes. I would love for the Colossus deck to be real, but it's not looking good.
Walking Ballista is a good counter against Saheeli combo. People where soo afraid of the combo that lots of the decks had hate on main. I guess GB Windler Constructor+Walking Balista variants (a favorite) and 4 colours Saheeli ETB deck (probably the best Saheeli deck ) are for sure decks for people to watchout.
Definitely take the tournament results with a grain of salt. That top 8 looks like the American Civil war between Saheeli combo and Gx decks that just pulverized everything else on the field. We're going to see some very interesting things come the Pro Tour at the end of the month, but I'm betting prices on Walking Ballista are now going to be at Rofl Copter levels and so will Verdurous Gearhulk (again)...
Hopefully the pro tour will show a more diverse format or I think the conversation might open up later along the lines of "Well, now that we've made only two viable decks and killed standard..."
My gods, UB control didn't even make it. We had one lone mardu vehicles deck in that top 8.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Jim Davis' UB Control fell one win short of Top 8 at 11-4. Decent run IMO.
I think UB control is going to be big come pro tour. It's just that control needs more tuning than aggro or the new combo deck. Also, esper aggro looks promising.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm a little surprised that no one tried a more aggressive Saheeli deck.
what is there to try?
I've been developing a far more aggressive Saheeli list with very good success.
oh that deck? people did play that, except they just played the better version, the one that doesn't dilute it's primary game plan with bad cards like the Cub. it's called Mardu Aggro. It's a pretty good deck.
I'm a little surprised that no one tried a more aggressive Saheeli deck.
what is there to try?
I've been developing a far more aggressive Saheeli list with very good success.
oh that deck? people did play that, except they just played the better version, the one that doesn't dilute it's primary game plan with bad cards like the Cub. it's called Mardu Aggro. It's a pretty good deck.
Eh. having multiple ways to win the game is not always a bad thing. You slow yourself down, but you also give yourself more outs.
I mean, RUG/Grixis twin in modern was more or a less a tempo deck with twin tacked on.
there is a big difference, though, in that the twin deck was already a multifaceted deck that could win with the combo or burn people out. adding Goyf to the deck didn't make it much different. cards like lightning bolt, snapcaster mage and even pestermite give you a lot of flexibility and let you play any kind of game you want. cards like Scrapheap Scrounger and Toolcraft Exemplar are the complete opposite. adding a random 2-card combo into a linear aggro deck is so different.
there is a big difference, though, in that the twin deck was already a multifaceted deck that could win with the combo or burn people out. adding Goyf to the deck didn't make it much different. cards like lightning bolt, snapcaster mage and even pestermite give you a lot of flexibility and let you play any kind of game you want. cards like Scrapheap Scrounger and Toolcraft Exemplar are the complete opposite. adding a random 2-card combo into a linear aggro deck is so different.
All I said was I was surprised that I didn't see anyone testing Saheeli in more aggressive, tempo oriented build.
It was either pure control (draw-go) or tap out (four color saheeeli). A few totted the line between tempo/aggro (by playing spell queller) but those decks were mostly built like control decks.
there is a big difference, though, in that the twin deck was already a multifaceted deck that could win with the combo or burn people out. adding Goyf to the deck didn't make it much different. cards like lightning bolt, snapcaster mage and even pestermite give you a lot of flexibility and let you play any kind of game you want. cards like Scrapheap Scrounger and Toolcraft Exemplar are the complete opposite. adding a random 2-card combo into a linear aggro deck is so different.
All I said was I was surprised that I didn't see anyone testing Saheeli in more aggressive, tempo oriented build.
It was either pure control (draw-go) or tap out (four color saheeeli). A few totted the line between tempo/aggro (by playing spell queller) but those decks were mostly built like control decks.
well, the point is that that just makes sense. adding a combo into a controlling deck and a grindy value-based deck that can abuse flickering is much much better than adding a combo into an aggressive deck. this is why you don't see combo-aggro. the problem is heightened by the fact that both the aggressive game plan and the combo lose to the same disruptive cards, so you're not even adding resilience to your deck.
that's why I asked "what is there to test?", because there just isn't anything worth exploring. the 4c Saheeli decks make sense on a basic level because both Saheeli and the Cub are much more effective in that shell, and cards like Negate help the control versions to protect the combo through disruption. aggressive cards simply do not supplement the combo elements of the deck, and vice versa.
there is a big difference, though, in that the twin deck was already a multifaceted deck that could win with the combo or burn people out. adding Goyf to the deck didn't make it much different. cards like lightning bolt, snapcaster mage and even pestermite give you a lot of flexibility and let you play any kind of game you want. cards like Scrapheap Scrounger and Toolcraft Exemplar are the complete opposite. adding a random 2-card combo into a linear aggro deck is so different.
All I said was I was surprised that I didn't see anyone testing Saheeli in more aggressive, tempo oriented build.
It was either pure control (draw-go) or tap out (four color saheeeli). A few totted the line between tempo/aggro (by playing spell queller) but those decks were mostly built like control decks.
well, the point is that that just makes sense. adding a combo into a controlling deck and a grindy value-based deck that can abuse flickering is much much better than adding a combo into an aggressive deck. this is why you don't see combo-aggro. the problem is heightened by the fact that both the aggressive game plan and the combo lose to the same disruptive cards, so you're not even adding resilience to your deck.
that's why I asked "what is there to test?", because there just isn't anything worth exploring. the 4c Saheeli decks make sense on a basic level because both Saheeli and the Cub are much more effective in that shell, and cards like Negate help the control versions to protect the combo through disruption. aggressive cards simply do not supplement the combo elements of the deck, and vice versa.
It makes perfect sense. By being both aggro and combo you overload your opponents answers. They must answer both the aggression early and the combo late.
Additionally it also sets up the possibility at entering into a tempo-oriented late game. Saheeli and Gideon are a powerhouse by themselves especially when paired with Spell Queller and Heart of Kiran.
EDIT: When I say "more aggressive build" I'm not referring to Mardu Vehicals or Esper Aggro... but more along the lines of UW Flash.
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RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
By far the most interesting deck was Joe Losette's Blue/Black Tezzeret Colossus build featuring Gonti's Aether Heart.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Edit: Just missed the top 8. Shame.
Hopefully the pro tour will show a more diverse format or I think the conversation might open up later along the lines of "Well, now that we've made only two viable decks and killed standard..."
My gods, UB control didn't even make it. We had one lone mardu vehicles deck in that top 8.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
what is there to try?
Youtube Channel
I think UB control is going to be big come pro tour. It's just that control needs more tuning than aggro or the new combo deck. Also, esper aggro looks promising.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've been developing a far more aggressive Saheeli list with very good success.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
oh that deck? people did play that, except they just played the better version, the one that doesn't dilute it's primary game plan with bad cards like the Cub. it's called Mardu Aggro. It's a pretty good deck.
Youtube Channel
Eh. having multiple ways to win the game is not always a bad thing. You slow yourself down, but you also give yourself more outs.
I mean, RUG/Grixis twin in modern was more or a less a tempo deck with twin tacked on.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Youtube Channel
Yes and No. You can build an aggressive tempo build without Scrapheap Scrounger and Toolcraft Exemplar. In that case.. it's not much different.
All I said was I was surprised that I didn't see anyone testing Saheeli in more aggressive, tempo oriented build.
It was either pure control (draw-go) or tap out (four color saheeeli). A few totted the line between tempo/aggro (by playing spell queller) but those decks were mostly built like control decks.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
well, the point is that that just makes sense. adding a combo into a controlling deck and a grindy value-based deck that can abuse flickering is much much better than adding a combo into an aggressive deck. this is why you don't see combo-aggro. the problem is heightened by the fact that both the aggressive game plan and the combo lose to the same disruptive cards, so you're not even adding resilience to your deck.
that's why I asked "what is there to test?", because there just isn't anything worth exploring. the 4c Saheeli decks make sense on a basic level because both Saheeli and the Cub are much more effective in that shell, and cards like Negate help the control versions to protect the combo through disruption. aggressive cards simply do not supplement the combo elements of the deck, and vice versa.
Youtube Channel
It makes perfect sense. By being both aggro and combo you overload your opponents answers. They must answer both the aggression early and the combo late.
Additionally it also sets up the possibility at entering into a tempo-oriented late game. Saheeli and Gideon are a powerhouse by themselves especially when paired with Spell Queller and Heart of Kiran.
EDIT: When I say "more aggressive build" I'm not referring to Mardu Vehicals or Esper Aggro... but more along the lines of UW Flash.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA