I knew I should have gotten a few copies of Saheeli in case she spiked. I freaking KNEW it! And I could do practically nothing about it because I've had no money since early September aside from ~$30 that I decided to spend on sleeves instead! Well, here's hoping that she drops back down eventually...and that it happens before Kaladesh rotates out at the fall 2018 set...
don't forget the same deck can run Fumerole Crackdown combo (granted cannot kill with it until turn 5 and your opponent has to have no blockers or removal in hand but two infinite damage combos in the same deck, plus you have the ability to play counter, removal and add pressure with a crap ton of thopters
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"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
Should crackdown maybe be a sideboard option? I feel like it's pretty greedy to run both at the same time. I don't have a list drafted yet, but I feel like hard control with a combo finish is the way to roll.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
I don't think crackdown is worth including in the deck, it's far the worse combo.
Instead I think Saheeli Combo should follow the tried and true splinter twin variants. There were twin variants that won 100% of the time with combo, and variants that played a very successful secondary gameplan of either control or beatdown with the combo as a sort of "oops I win" contingency plan.
I think with the differences between exarch/twin and saheeli/guardian, the control version makes the most sense. You can't flash in your guardian EoT, so instead you need either him or saheeli to survive one full turn. Pack a deck full of control spells, toss in torrential gearhulk who works amazingly on his own but also has fantastic synergy with both of the combo pieces, maybe Thing in the Ice as both an early game Saheeli blocker and an alternate wincon. Anticipate / Glimmer for refilling your hand, Gearhulks to either recur counterspells or recur glimmer for value.
4x saheeli
4x guardian
4x torrential gearhulk
4x thing in the ice
That's your core, then surround it with Anticipate/Glimmer/Counterspells/control magic.
I don't even think you go with thing, at least maybe not in the main. I would start with 4 Saheeli, 4 Guardian, and 2-4 hulks, and then just counters, removal, and card draw/filtering. I would say things side, but since the combo is creature based, your opponent probably won't board out any removal. I would actually consider metallurgic summoning as sideboard tech.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
I think you can add creatures like Reflector Mage so Felidar Guardian and Saheeli Rai have some incidental synergy. Some permanants in Jeskai that have powerful ETB effects that can stall the game out. Is Cloudblazer too much without going into something closer to Panharmonicon
Instead of going high curve glimmers, gearhulks, etc- whats the viability of playing up red control and dig more with fiery temper, cathartic reunion / tormenting voice? I feel like low curve dig and madness could be important if the format is as fast as people think it will be. I worry about the reliability of a deck that not only plays 2 card combos with no interchangeable pieces in a format without good dig, thus having weak board states with underpowered cards like a 2/2 for 4 that doesn't do anything until it combos off- but also risks having dead cards in hand and no way to dump them.
I doubt my idea makes it more viable overall, but its worth a look. I think playing cards with more cross-combo synergy like reflector mage as said above is a better candidate
between galvanic bombardment, harnessed lightning, blessed alliance, immolating glare, stasis snare and now shock, I feel like jeskai has enough low curve removal without needing to rely on madness. I think the build in week 1-3 should focus on fast removal so you can fight the usual spread of aggro decks, try to stabilize, and then combo off. hell you can even just drop both on turn 7 for an insta win. As the meta slows down, you can probably start tuning to the more midrange decks.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
between galvanic bombardment, harnessed lightning, blessed alliance, immolating glare, stasis snare and now shock, I feel like jeskai has enough low curve removal without needing to rely on madness. I think the build in week 1-3 should focus on fast removal so you can fight the usual spread of aggro decks, try to stabilize, and then combo off. hell you can even just drop both on turn 7 for an insta win. As the meta slows down, you can probably start tuning to the more midrange decks.
turn 6 for insta win. you drop the Felidar Guardian first hitting a land that comes back untapped then Saheeli Rai.
turn 7 is for doing it with protection via dispel.
Could we use Shielded Aether Thief?
It has decent defense to help protect Saheeli. It can gain us an energy at instant speed. It draws cards or the energy it produces can help Harnessed Lightning become more effective.
I'm wondering if a planeswalker-themed deck route is available. Here are some ideas:
Go Bant for Oath of Nissa - lets you ponder out combo pieces basically. Get to play Tamiyo (if you want), Ajani, Gideon, and all of the busted in-bant creatures in standard.
I personally run a standard deck already with the combo with decoction modules and whirler virtuoso, and I run aetherworks marvel to find the pieces and to counter spells without mana. I think that this has some potiential in that kind of shell because I already splash white.
Can we use Fateful Showdown?
It might be able to help get rid of a threat or hit our opponent and help us find our combo pieces or more removal.
"Fateful Showdown deals damage to target creature or player equal to the number of cards in your hand. Discard all cards in your hand, then draw that many cards."
Also, I think we should consider Reckless Fireweaver on turn 2. When we go off on turn 4, we can ping them if they board in Authority of the Council. It'll negate the life they gain from our copies.
A) control build with the pieces in it where I'm pushing to 6 mana for torrential gearhulk too. I want nahiri, the harbinger here to dig for the cat or hulk to close out. This is what I'm thinking is going to be stronger.
B) tempo shell with lots of ETB dudes. Lower curve and more all in on the combo. aether hub requires some energy support cards to work right and the tapped lands hurt a lot more here. With enough critters running around, elder-deep fiend sets up some sick plays. 3wuuu is a spell queller then emerge fiend off it with it on the stack to remove the spell for good and tap down the rest of their mana so you can combo out in the late game.
Both lists have the combo piece shut down by authority of the consuls, which will be a fantastic sideboard for weeks 1-3 to combat this deck and the aggro ones. Thinking a 4 of in the side.
For non black/green enchantment removal we have felidar cub, collective effort or fragmentize. Frag is by far the strongest option as we can hit copter, authority, marvel and heart of kiran with it. Frag is a 4 of in the side, maybe even a mainboard split in this meta.
You can combo out at 6 mana by having the cat blink a land.
Potential other routes include shoving marvel in here if we go the energy route.
What are the best answers to the combo? Revolt plus Fatal Push takes care of guardian, but not much else aside from counterspells. I guess proative answers like Authority of the Consuls seem like some of the best bets
What are the best answers to the combo? Revolt plus Fatal Push takes care of guardian, but not much else aside from counterspells. I guess proative answers like Authority of the Consuls seem like some of the best bets
instant speed damage targeted at Saheeli Rai and enough to get though the counters we may/may not have in hand
When the original Twin combo was in standard, U/R was a much stronger tempo color then it was control, so the most successful twin decks of the time just put the combo in a tempo shell.
This time around though, Jeskai is a much stronger control color than it is tempo, and Jeskai control is already one of the most popular control builds in standard right now, so the main and best home of Saheeli twin is just gonna be a Jeskai control shell that runs the combo as a win condition. It also helps that the new combo pieces are marginally more useful on their own than the original pieces are.
This combo WILL take standard by storm, since this is the first genuine two-card combo we've seen since original twin. If ya wanna play this deck, get yer Saheelis now.
Saheeli Rai + Felidar Guardian.
Back it up with Dispel/Negate, and you got yourself a W.
Would this be viable in a UW Panharmonicon list that splashes red?
I knew I should have gotten a few copies of Saheeli in case she spiked. I freaking KNEW it! And I could do practically nothing about it because I've had no money since early September aside from ~$30 that I decided to spend on sleeves instead! Well, here's hoping that she drops back down eventually...and that it happens before Kaladesh rotates out at the fall 2018 set...
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
4 guardian
4 crackdown construct
4 anticiapte
3 dissalow
4 harnssed lightning
4 glimmer of genius
2 torrential gear hulk
2 shock
3 negate
1 dispel
4 spirebluff
4 inpire vantage
4 aether hub
2 plains
5 island
2 port town
Esper draw go Control!
Twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
dispel is the way to go to protect saheeli from player-directed burn
Instead I think Saheeli Combo should follow the tried and true splinter twin variants. There were twin variants that won 100% of the time with combo, and variants that played a very successful secondary gameplan of either control or beatdown with the combo as a sort of "oops I win" contingency plan.
I think with the differences between exarch/twin and saheeli/guardian, the control version makes the most sense. You can't flash in your guardian EoT, so instead you need either him or saheeli to survive one full turn. Pack a deck full of control spells, toss in torrential gearhulk who works amazingly on his own but also has fantastic synergy with both of the combo pieces, maybe Thing in the Ice as both an early game Saheeli blocker and an alternate wincon. Anticipate / Glimmer for refilling your hand, Gearhulks to either recur counterspells or recur glimmer for value.
4x saheeli
4x guardian
4x torrential gearhulk
4x thing in the ice
That's your core, then surround it with Anticipate/Glimmer/Counterspells/control magic.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
I doubt my idea makes it more viable overall, but its worth a look. I think playing cards with more cross-combo synergy like reflector mage as said above is a better candidate
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
turn 6 for insta win. you drop the Felidar Guardian first hitting a land that comes back untapped then Saheeli Rai.
turn 7 is for doing it with protection via dispel.
4 Felidar Guardian
3 Negate
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Declaration in Stone
3 Dispel
4 Anticipate
3 Tormenting Voice
3 crackdown construct
3 Wandering Fumarole
21 Other Lands
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
It has decent defense to help protect Saheeli. It can gain us an energy at instant speed. It draws cards or the energy it produces can help Harnessed Lightning become more effective.
Go Bant for Oath of Nissa - lets you ponder out combo pieces basically. Get to play Tamiyo (if you want), Ajani, Gideon, and all of the busted in-bant creatures in standard.
Jeskai - go planeswalker control with Gideon/Chandra/Dovin and Heart of Kiran and maybe Call The Gatewatch.
And yeah, I agree with khaosknight69, the Crackdown combo seems gimmicky and should be left out.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy/770827-primer-legacy-pili-pala
It might be able to help get rid of a threat or hit our opponent and help us find our combo pieces or more removal.
"Fateful Showdown deals damage to target creature or player equal to the number of cards in your hand. Discard all cards in your hand, then draw that many cards."
Also, I think we should consider Reckless Fireweaver on turn 2. When we go off on turn 4, we can ping them if they board in Authority of the Council. It'll negate the life they gain from our copies.
A) control build with the pieces in it where I'm pushing to 6 mana for torrential gearhulk too. I want nahiri, the harbinger here to dig for the cat or hulk to close out. This is what I'm thinking is going to be stronger.
B) tempo shell with lots of ETB dudes. Lower curve and more all in on the combo. aether hub requires some energy support cards to work right and the tapped lands hurt a lot more here. With enough critters running around, elder-deep fiend sets up some sick plays. 3wuuu is a spell queller then emerge fiend off it with it on the stack to remove the spell for good and tap down the rest of their mana so you can combo out in the late game.
Both lists have the combo piece shut down by authority of the consuls, which will be a fantastic sideboard for weeks 1-3 to combat this deck and the aggro ones. Thinking a 4 of in the side.
For non black/green enchantment removal we have felidar cub, collective effort or fragmentize. Frag is by far the strongest option as we can hit copter, authority, marvel and heart of kiran with it. Frag is a 4 of in the side, maybe even a mainboard split in this meta.
You can combo out at 6 mana by having the cat blink a land.
Potential other routes include shoving marvel in here if we go the energy route.
I think negate and disallow are going to be very relevant as well to combat delerium and marvel. Maybe aetherworks resovoir decks too since freaking ornithopter is back.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
instant speed damage targeted at Saheeli Rai and enough to get though the counters we may/may not have in hand
This time around though, Jeskai is a much stronger control color than it is tempo, and Jeskai control is already one of the most popular control builds in standard right now, so the main and best home of Saheeli twin is just gonna be a Jeskai control shell that runs the combo as a win condition. It also helps that the new combo pieces are marginally more useful on their own than the original pieces are.
This combo WILL take standard by storm, since this is the first genuine two-card combo we've seen since original twin. If ya wanna play this deck, get yer Saheelis now.
fwiw, you're not going to be protecting your combo that way, since they'll kill your cat/saheeli in response to you flickering the land.