The current Standard is an absolutely miserable format. Sure, it was easy enough to spot what was wrong with the 12 month mono-Black Control season but at least you could play other things then and get good games out of it. Today I might go 7/5 in games on our typical 4-round weekly event but what doesn't show is that only 2-3 of those are going to be actual games. The others are some kind of scripted stress-tests were one of the players
Fizzle horribly on mana.
End up drawing the wrong set of interactive spells, making the opponent snowball out of control.
Am unable to recover from even a moderately poor set of drawn cards.
Have no way of interacting with the opponents game plan. Graveyard and energy-based strategies being the obvious examples.
The reverse of any of the above.
Right now you only get conditional overcosted answers at sorcery speed, while you're free to play any number of creatures at instant speed and/or with haste.
It's a Standard format seemingly custom-made to encourage linear strategies, something Stoddard called for a while back. Unfortunately that also completely misses the fact that Standard has long been the last refuge of Magic players that, well, want to play Magic. As opposed to watching their opponents playing with themselves. At least in other formats the misery is over quickly, due the card quality, good mana and solid deck manipulation. In the current Standard though? Not so much.
So yeah, the current Standard situation has me contemplating shelving the game until, at least, Amonkhet or whatever set that gets us back to playing Magic comes around.
Unfortunately this new program isn't much of an incentive for me personally, partly because we don't actually play at a shop and won't get these but mostly because playing for rewards doesn't do much when the playing isn't enjoyable.
Wow, I don't think I've seen anyone sum up the problems with the current Standard format as well as this. The most successful decks are those with the most linear strategies. People whined about mono-B devotion and Azorius Control in the RTR-THS standard, but those decks weren't linear (especially in the case of Azorius Control).
Basically, if your decks draws better than your opponent in a given game, you'll win 99/100 times in this Standard. That's WAY too reliant on chance.
I reckon we could get 25-30 players for a PPTQ at my LGS............... as long as it was for Legacy.
Hell last week I had 22 at an FNM- for Legacy, I think beating Standard attendance.
The PPTQ system is dire- the first couple we had at my LGS were Modern, and had 45 players- the store max at the time.
Cue forward and they forced people to make the format match the RPTQ, and by the next Modern PPTQ attendance had plummeted, partially due to Standard not being popular here, and the familiar Facebook notifications "event X has been cancelled" inevitably ensue rapidly after most PPTQs, even Modern ones.
Wizards have had an attitude of "get the new players in, make the game friendly to casuals and newbies, make it about LGS, concentrate on planeswalkers, monsters and plot" without realising that you can't add casuals in and keep tournament attendance, the two have always been largely mutually exclusive. The dichotomy has been exacerbated by their PPTQ system, but it was inevitable. The moment new to the game casual players saw EDH, that was it. Boom. Everyone who thinks a big monster is cool, that immersive gaming experiences are great or that theme matters suddenly has the perfect outlet for them, and it does not need tournaments.
I would not play Standard if you paid me, partially because playing draft and winning the best cards and selling them on at what I hope is the right time to Standard players pays me NOT to play. But even if it does not, I still won't play- their design of Standard is rubbish to me, I don't want to be forced to play with monsters, I do want to control what I draw and I hate planeswalkers being in every set, and I do want to cast spells or take actions pretty much t0/1/2 every game. I also have no problem with people blowing up land, cheating monsters in, randomly discarding, tutoring, making all creatures useless or casting free spells, none of which fit their definition of fun.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I reckon we could get 25-30 players for a PPTQ at my LGS............... as long as it was for Legacy.
Hell last week I had 22 at an FNM- for Legacy, I think beating Standard attendance.
The PPTQ system is dire- the first couple we had at my LGS were Modern, and had 45 players- the store max at the time.
Cue forward and they forced people to make the format match the RPTQ, and by the next Modern PPTQ attendance had plummeted, partially due to Standard not being popular here, and the familiar Facebook notifications "event X has been cancelled" inevitably ensue rapidly after most PPTQs, even Modern ones.
Wizards have had an attitude of "get the new players in, make the game friendly to casuals and newbies, make it about LGS, concentrate on planeswalkers, monsters and plot" without realising that you can't add casuals in and keep tournament attendance, the two have always been largely mutually exclusive. The dichotomy has been exacerbated by their PPTQ system, but it was inevitable. The moment new to the game casual players saw EDH, that was it. Boom. Everyone who thinks a big monster is cool, that immersive gaming experiences are great or that theme matters suddenly has the perfect outlet for them, and it does not need tournaments.
I would not play Standard if you paid me, partially because playing draft and winning the best cards and selling them on at what I hope is the right time to Standard players pays me NOT to play. But even if it does not, I still won't play- their design of Standard is rubbish to me, I don't want to be forced to play with monsters, I do want to control what I draw and I hate planeswalkers being in every set, and I do want to cast spells or take actions pretty much t0/1/2 every game. I also have no problem with people blowing up land, cheating monsters in, randomly discarding, tutoring, making all creatures useless or casting free spells, none of which fit their definition of fun.
I won a Monday-Friday route but it starts in May 2017.... I'm still a Friday-Tuesday sales rep until then
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11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature. - Maximillian Cohen.
I can't imagine Standard attendance is down due to card prices given the cost of a tier 1 deck is lower than it's been in years. Larger print runs, special inserts, and the mythic rarity have all contributed a large drop in overall deck prices. Now-a-days, there are only a few cards that are worth the majority of a set's value, and those cards tend to retain their value as they transition into Modern.
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd look at PPTQs, the 18-month rotation plan, and how the last few iterations of the format played. PPTQs, in their sheer quantity are parasitic upon one another, and weekly fair such as FNM. The PPTQ system weeds out all but the most hardcore grinders, and they dominate the weekend schedule at many stores. While faster rotations helped reduce individual card prices, value of a card relative to its stay in Standard has stayed about the same (a $10 card in 24-month Standard might be worth $7.50 in 18-month Standard). Additionally, 18-month Standard also came at the expense of those that wanted to play with their cards for longer, and enjoyed a slower moving metagame. I think for a lot of casually/moderately active Standard players, this turned the rotation changes into a net negative. I think the single largest factor in attendance drops has been the format itself. We're going on 2 years of the generally consensus being down on how Standard plays. We've transitioned from a 4-color midrange blob format, to a hyper-linear high variation format.
All this is going to do is bring the toxic competitive players back to the LGS. Us regular players who play for fun arent going to win. The reason why numbers are down isnt card prices its the toxic win at all cost players. Most of these have vanished lately and numbers of new players was starting to increase again.
All this is going to do is bring the toxic competitive players back to the LGS. Us regular players who play for fun arent going to win. The reason why numbers are down isnt card prices its the toxic win at all cost players. Most of these have vanished lately and numbers of new players was starting to increase again.
I have to be honest. I like to win and play accordingly. I'm a Spike. But the prospect of getting less than a dollars worth of cards isn't worth the time or effort. I can go buy a pack of cards and play the cardboard crack lotto and get a jank rare without having to put out a ton of effort. If I'm going to play it needs to be worth my time, not just a chance of a payoff but a real payoff. Make it worth my time and I'll show up. Hey I'm a Spike.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
All this is going to do is bring the toxic competitive players back to the LGS. Us regular players who play for fun arent going to win. The reason why numbers are down isnt card prices its the toxic win at all cost players. Most of these have vanished lately and numbers of new players was starting to increase again.
I have to be honest. I like to win and play accordingly. I'm a Spike. But the prospect of getting less than a dollars worth of cards isn't worth the time or effort. I can go buy a pack of cards and play the cardboard crack lotto and get a jank rare without having to put out a ton of effort. If I'm going to play it needs to be worth my time, not just a chance of a payoff but a real payoff. Make it worth my time and I'll show up. Hey I'm a Spike.
Just because your spike doesn't mean to have to cheat and not be helpful to new players. Example - we are now down to 2 spikes left regularly at our LGS - spike was playing johnny it was johnny first time here. Spike didnt help johnny when he missed pia nalaar thropter trigger. Then spike played a ishkanah and put 3 spiders into play even though he didn't have delirium. The turn after spike played a grasp of darkness for 1 green mana and 1 black mana. I felt bad for Johnny. I pointed it out to the LGS employee and he said there was nothing he can do as johnny didnt say anything.
I spoke to Johnny after and he said he wasn't coming back as there was no point. No one other then me spoke to Johnny all day and people just maintained there cliques.
Its this toxic behavior which is the reason why standard numbers have dropped off.
Offering 10 extra booster packs will just bring the toxic spikes back
All this is going to do is bring the toxic competitive players back to the LGS. Us regular players who play for fun arent going to win. The reason why numbers are down isnt card prices its the toxic win at all cost players. Most of these have vanished lately and numbers of new players was starting to increase again.
I have to be honest. I like to win and play accordingly. I'm a Spike. But the prospect of getting less than a dollars worth of cards isn't worth the time or effort. I can go buy a pack of cards and play the cardboard crack lotto and get a jank rare without having to put out a ton of effort. If I'm going to play it needs to be worth my time, not just a chance of a payoff but a real payoff. Make it worth my time and I'll show up. Hey I'm a Spike.
Just because your spike doesn't mean to have to cheat and not be helpful to new players. Example - we are now down to 2 spikes left regularly at our LGS - spike was playing johnny it was johnny first time here. Spike didnt help johnny when he missed pia nalaar thropter trigger. Then spike played a ishkanah and put 3 spiders into play even though he didn't have delirium. The turn after spike played a grasp of darkness for 1 green mana and 1 black mana. I felt bad for Johnny. I pointed it out to the LGS employee and he said there was nothing he can do as johnny didnt say anything.
I spoke to Johnny after and he said he wasn't coming back as there was no point. No one other then me spoke to Johnny all day and people just maintained there cliques.
Its this toxic behavior which is the reason why standard numbers have dropped off.
Offering 10 extra booster packs will just bring the toxic spikes back
Who said I cheat? I like to win and only "like" it when I win fair and square. I'm all about helping my fellow players out as I want to see them improve as well. I'd hope they would do the same for me. Better play leads to a better experience.
With that said 10 packs of cards total per week in which many won't add up to a dollar of value on their own is not a real incentive to me at all. If I want a "chance" I'll just buy a pack. If I put the effort out I want to know the reward was worth it. Like I said, I'm a Spike, it has to be worth it for me to participate. I guarantee you'd love to have me at your LGS.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
All this is going to do is bring the toxic competitive players back to the LGS. Us regular players who play for fun arent going to win. The reason why numbers are down isnt card prices its the toxic win at all cost players. Most of these have vanished lately and numbers of new players was starting to increase again.
I have to be honest. I like to win and play accordingly. I'm a Spike. But the prospect of getting less than a dollars worth of cards isn't worth the time or effort. I can go buy a pack of cards and play the cardboard crack lotto and get a jank rare without having to put out a ton of effort. If I'm going to play it needs to be worth my time, not just a chance of a payoff but a real payoff. Make it worth my time and I'll show up. Hey I'm a Spike.
Just because your spike doesn't mean to have to cheat and not be helpful to new players. Example - we are now down to 2 spikes left regularly at our LGS - spike was playing johnny it was johnny first time here. Spike didnt help johnny when he missed pia nalaar thropter trigger. Then spike played a ishkanah and put 3 spiders into play even though he didn't have delirium. The turn after spike played a grasp of darkness for 1 green mana and 1 black mana. I felt bad for Johnny. I pointed it out to the LGS employee and he said there was nothing he can do as johnny didnt say anything.
I spoke to Johnny after and he said he wasn't coming back as there was no point. No one other then me spoke to Johnny all day and people just maintained there cliques.
Its this toxic behavior which is the reason why standard numbers have dropped off.
Offering 10 extra booster packs will just bring the toxic spikes back
Who said I cheat? I like to win and only "like" it when I win fair and square. I'm all about helping my fellow players out as I want to see them improve as well. I'd hope they would do the same for me. Better play leads to a better experience.
With that said 10 packs of cards total in which many won't add up to a dollar of value on their own is not a real incentive to me at all. If I want a "chance" I'll just buy a pack. If I put the effort out I want to know the reward was worth it. Like I said, I'm a Spike, it has to be worth it for me to participate. I guarantee you'd love to have me at your LGS.
Your a good spike there is other toxic spikes out there though win at all cost type people.
while I see some points about spikes, the truth is you want them at your meta, you just don't realize it. I am not a spike by any means, but a brewer at heart, which is the natural counterpart or yin to the yang of spikes, as brewers create new deck types that frustrate spikes because they don't immediately know how to beat them, but then the spike takes the idea home and perfects it. If you don't enjoy playing against the spikes, you may be trying to hard to play like them and not realize it. I don't condone anyone cheating, but honestly I don't see it in constructed, I see it more in limited, where people don't know the cards well yet and some people take advantage of that. I think this new product will bring out some spikes, just because why wouldn't it? it's another incentive to play and win, which they (and the rest of us) like doing. Frankly, in my meta, if anyone misses triggers or cheats, the people around them point it out. if cheating they do it immediately, if missed trigger they do after the game. take care of each other and everyone gets better, and that will weed out the cheaters as they hate being called on it.
I like this and think it can only help me, while I don't see who it hurts.
Locally, there are hardly any Saturday events. The payout seems to be about $3-5 ($60/33 + 2*$1). It will reward people with competitive decks to play at their LGS for fun. The payout is not worth traveling, it doesn't lead to the Pro Tour and it isn't competing with FNM events because there are hardly any on Saturday.
I have neither the discretionary time nor the skill to win at a PPTQ, but I have a competitive deck. I do play at a PPTQ about once a season and get humiliated. I only play competitive decks at FNM level while preparing for my PPTQ humiliation. Otherwise, I play my fun brews at FNM level events because it's more fun and it seems fair.
I win more than my share of FNM-level events (and must be a spike, I guess). I miss tons of triggers myself and do my best to remind opponents of their triggers when playing at less than competitive REL (or even competitive, not that they need the reminders, so I guess I'm a bad spike). I often let players take back plays (unless they have already been obnoxious) and try not to be a toxic opponent.
This gives me a fun event that is at a competitive level between FNM and PPTQ and a reason to tune my competitive deck. I don't see who it hurts, and if it adds to the fun for a segment of players, why not?
How to create rewards for brewers that don't want to play tier 1 decks, people with limited card pools, legacy players that despise standard or less skilled players? I agree that this doesn't address these populations. It seems like legacy players can just play legacy events. The remaining populations may need different events to help them. While an interesting question, it seems outside the scope of this thread. Isn't providing a fun event for a subsegment of the community enough of a reason to do it?
chewylsb asked: Why isn't Oath of the Gatewatch included in the Standard Showdown packs?
Maro: It was a logistics issue.
Not sure if any sober person can internalize the answer.
Obviously they ran out of colorless mana symbols for the top right corners of the cards. 😉
Seriously, I can imagine different print runs costing more or some particular printer with a backlog of orders. Given the apparently spontaneous nature of the promotion, leaving out a set with few valuable cards seems reasonable.
I like this and think it can only help me, while I don't see who it hurts.
Locally, there are hardly any Saturday events. The payout seems to be about $3-5 ($60/33 + 2*$1). It will reward people with competitive decks to play at their LGS for fun. The payout is not worth traveling, it doesn't lead to the Pro Tour and it isn't competing with FNM events because there are hardly any on Saturday.
I have neither the discretionary time nor the skill to win at a PPTQ, but I have a competitive deck. I do play at a PPTQ about once a season and get humiliated. I only play competitive decks at FNM level while preparing for my PPTQ humiliation. Otherwise, I play my fun brews at FNM level events because it's more fun and it seems fair.
I win more than my share of FNM-level events (and must be a spike, I guess). I miss tons of triggers myself and do my best to remind opponents of their triggers when playing at less than competitive REL (or even competitive, not that they need the reminders, so I guess I'm a bad spike). I often let players take back plays (unless they have already been obnoxious) and try not to be a toxic opponent.
This gives me a fun event that is at a competitive level between FNM and PPTQ and a reason to tune my competitive deck. I don't see who it hurts, and if it adds to the fun for a segment of players, why not?
How to create rewards for brewers that don't want to play tier 1 decks, people with limited card pools, legacy players that despise standard or less skilled players? I agree that this doesn't address these populations. It seems like legacy players can just play legacy events. The remaining populations may need different events to help them. While an interesting question, it seems outside the scope of this thread. Isn't providing a fun event for a subsegment of the community enough of a reason to do it?
very well said
I am taken aback by the negative reactions in this thread. it seems like a gathering of people who have quit standard for one reason or another, who revel at anything that might suggest standard is doing poorly. I think the format is in a very nice spot right now. I can understand the criticism, but it is much the same every season. every standard format is different with its unique strengths and weaknesses. I really can't remember a time when people haven't complained about standard.
anyway, this program seems awesome to me, and I'm definitely attending these. WOTC is literally handing out product for the players, that sounds awesome to me. at our store the entry fees are distributed as a price credits among the players, so this is just pure win.
the best thing is, of course, that this might attract players who are on the verge of building a standard deck. I hope we get new and returning players to show up for these events more than anything.
With the PPTQ system, WOTC decided that you needed to be "dedicated" to make it to the PT. You couldn't just enter a big PTQ and hope for the best. No, you had to win a tournament to earn the right to travel a long distance to another tournament that is the actual one that might get you to the PT.
Well you know what? There is a certain level of competitive player that is interested enough to go the PTQ route but doesn't have the level of interest required to go the RPTQ route. And maybe that type of player is a lot more common that WOTC thought.
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If the Vikings were around today, they would probably be amazed at how much glow-in-the-dark stuff we have, and how we take it for granted.
Wizards are handing out things to standard players.
They used to hand out things to all players of sanctioned events.
The Spike v Johnny posts illustrate my original point. If you spend all of your effort bringing in Johnny and Timmy, don't be surprised when they mix poorly with Spike (and for that matter each other) and play EDH instead, leaving no events for Spike and LGS having to cancel events.
Standard is designed to appeal to Johnny and Timmy and not spike (who likes to control his draws and minimise his variance, thank you very much), but events need Spikes because they actually turn up and don't decide they would rather go down KFC and play commander later.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I don't play Standard, mainly due to inflated card prices. Say what you want about the entry price of eternal formats and the price tags of some EDH goodies, they tend to hold their value. No other format has cards like Liliana, the Last Hope that go for $50, only to drop to ~$10 almost overnight. "But Lantern", you say, "that card hasn't dropped to $10." Just wait. I just traded one away for a Leovold, Emissary of Trest and it felt great. Smuggler's Copter is another example... that card is NOT worth $10.
That vented, if this was a promotion that catered to MTG players as a whole and not just Standard players, I'd bite.
It's a tepid promotional effort at best. A lottery ticket for winning (because that's how 90% of LGS will distribute these) at Standard on a Saturday...not that exciting. I don't want to bring my jank, inconsistent brews to get crushed by $300 goodstuff decks chock full of blatantly pushed staples, so this appeals to me very little.
Want to get people more interested and invested in Standard? Make the format better, don't just give (slightly) more prizes.
Most of these prizes will end up to the successful Spikes. While the Timmies and Johnnies will join in, I can see them feeling a sense of dread when they eventually realize they don't stand a chance at all, and that system fails once more. This program feels very short term to me. Watch this space.
I can also foresee smaller LGS whacking for themselves, and bigger chains like SCG hoarding them. Seriously, I'm failing to see any net benefit for Standard in the long run with this program.
I see no problem with establishing a Spike focused/competitive minded Standard event that isn't PPTQ.
If you want to win the packs, play competitively. If you don't care about playing competitively, just play FNM. If you don't like FNM, then you're going to complain about any standard event that exists, so your complaint about this doesn't really mean much.
Standard is in a fine place right now, especially for those that are competitive minded. If you don't like the competitive mindset, play a casual format.
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Wow, I don't think I've seen anyone sum up the problems with the current Standard format as well as this. The most successful decks are those with the most linear strategies. People whined about mono-B devotion and Azorius Control in the RTR-THS standard, but those decks weren't linear (especially in the case of Azorius Control).
Basically, if your decks draws better than your opponent in a given game, you'll win 99/100 times in this Standard. That's WAY too reliant on chance.
Hell last week I had 22 at an FNM- for Legacy, I think beating Standard attendance.
The PPTQ system is dire- the first couple we had at my LGS were Modern, and had 45 players- the store max at the time.
Cue forward and they forced people to make the format match the RPTQ, and by the next Modern PPTQ attendance had plummeted, partially due to Standard not being popular here, and the familiar Facebook notifications "event X has been cancelled" inevitably ensue rapidly after most PPTQs, even Modern ones.
Wizards have had an attitude of "get the new players in, make the game friendly to casuals and newbies, make it about LGS, concentrate on planeswalkers, monsters and plot" without realising that you can't add casuals in and keep tournament attendance, the two have always been largely mutually exclusive. The dichotomy has been exacerbated by their PPTQ system, but it was inevitable. The moment new to the game casual players saw EDH, that was it. Boom. Everyone who thinks a big monster is cool, that immersive gaming experiences are great or that theme matters suddenly has the perfect outlet for them, and it does not need tournaments.
I would not play Standard if you paid me, partially because playing draft and winning the best cards and selling them on at what I hope is the right time to Standard players pays me NOT to play. But even if it does not, I still won't play- their design of Standard is rubbish to me, I don't want to be forced to play with monsters, I do want to control what I draw and I hate planeswalkers being in every set, and I do want to cast spells or take actions pretty much t0/1/2 every game. I also have no problem with people blowing up land, cheating monsters in, randomly discarding, tutoring, making all creatures useless or casting free spells, none of which fit their definition of fun.
Great post.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
I won a Monday-Friday route but it starts in May 2017.... I'm still a Friday-Tuesday sales rep until then
Standard: XDon't play.X
Legacy: BUReanimatorUB
Vintage: URBWGDBRU
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd look at PPTQs, the 18-month rotation plan, and how the last few iterations of the format played. PPTQs, in their sheer quantity are parasitic upon one another, and weekly fair such as FNM. The PPTQ system weeds out all but the most hardcore grinders, and they dominate the weekend schedule at many stores. While faster rotations helped reduce individual card prices, value of a card relative to its stay in Standard has stayed about the same (a $10 card in 24-month Standard might be worth $7.50 in 18-month Standard). Additionally, 18-month Standard also came at the expense of those that wanted to play with their cards for longer, and enjoyed a slower moving metagame. I think for a lot of casually/moderately active Standard players, this turned the rotation changes into a net negative. I think the single largest factor in attendance drops has been the format itself. We're going on 2 years of the generally consensus being down on how Standard plays. We've transitioned from a 4-color midrange blob format, to a hyper-linear high variation format.
I have to be honest. I like to win and play accordingly. I'm a Spike. But the prospect of getting less than a dollars worth of cards isn't worth the time or effort. I can go buy a pack of cards and play the cardboard crack lotto and get a jank rare without having to put out a ton of effort. If I'm going to play it needs to be worth my time, not just a chance of a payoff but a real payoff. Make it worth my time and I'll show up. Hey I'm a Spike.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Just because your spike doesn't mean to have to cheat and not be helpful to new players. Example - we are now down to 2 spikes left regularly at our LGS - spike was playing johnny it was johnny first time here. Spike didnt help johnny when he missed pia nalaar thropter trigger. Then spike played a ishkanah and put 3 spiders into play even though he didn't have delirium. The turn after spike played a grasp of darkness for 1 green mana and 1 black mana. I felt bad for Johnny. I pointed it out to the LGS employee and he said there was nothing he can do as johnny didnt say anything.
I spoke to Johnny after and he said he wasn't coming back as there was no point. No one other then me spoke to Johnny all day and people just maintained there cliques.
Its this toxic behavior which is the reason why standard numbers have dropped off.
Offering 10 extra booster packs will just bring the toxic spikes back
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
Who said I cheat? I like to win and only "like" it when I win fair and square. I'm all about helping my fellow players out as I want to see them improve as well. I'd hope they would do the same for me. Better play leads to a better experience.
With that said 10 packs of cards total per week in which many won't add up to a dollar of value on their own is not a real incentive to me at all. If I want a "chance" I'll just buy a pack. If I put the effort out I want to know the reward was worth it. Like I said, I'm a Spike, it has to be worth it for me to participate. I guarantee you'd love to have me at your LGS.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Your a good spike there is other toxic spikes out there though win at all cost type people.
Locally, there are hardly any Saturday events. The payout seems to be about $3-5 ($60/33 + 2*$1). It will reward people with competitive decks to play at their LGS for fun. The payout is not worth traveling, it doesn't lead to the Pro Tour and it isn't competing with FNM events because there are hardly any on Saturday.
I have neither the discretionary time nor the skill to win at a PPTQ, but I have a competitive deck. I do play at a PPTQ about once a season and get humiliated. I only play competitive decks at FNM level while preparing for my PPTQ humiliation. Otherwise, I play my fun brews at FNM level events because it's more fun and it seems fair.
I win more than my share of FNM-level events (and must be a spike, I guess). I miss tons of triggers myself and do my best to remind opponents of their triggers when playing at less than competitive REL (or even competitive, not that they need the reminders, so I guess I'm a bad spike). I often let players take back plays (unless they have already been obnoxious) and try not to be a toxic opponent.
This gives me a fun event that is at a competitive level between FNM and PPTQ and a reason to tune my competitive deck. I don't see who it hurts, and if it adds to the fun for a segment of players, why not?
How to create rewards for brewers that don't want to play tier 1 decks, people with limited card pools, legacy players that despise standard or less skilled players? I agree that this doesn't address these populations. It seems like legacy players can just play legacy events. The remaining populations may need different events to help them. While an interesting question, it seems outside the scope of this thread. Isn't providing a fun event for a subsegment of the community enough of a reason to do it?
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Not sure if any sober person can internalize the answer.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Seriously, I can imagine different print runs costing more or some particular printer with a backlog of orders. Given the apparently spontaneous nature of the promotion, leaving out a set with few valuable cards seems reasonable.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
very well said
I am taken aback by the negative reactions in this thread. it seems like a gathering of people who have quit standard for one reason or another, who revel at anything that might suggest standard is doing poorly. I think the format is in a very nice spot right now. I can understand the criticism, but it is much the same every season. every standard format is different with its unique strengths and weaknesses. I really can't remember a time when people haven't complained about standard.
anyway, this program seems awesome to me, and I'm definitely attending these. WOTC is literally handing out product for the players, that sounds awesome to me. at our store the entry fees are distributed as a price credits among the players, so this is just pure win.
the best thing is, of course, that this might attract players who are on the verge of building a standard deck. I hope we get new and returning players to show up for these events more than anything.
Youtube Channel
Well you know what? There is a certain level of competitive player that is interested enough to go the PTQ route but doesn't have the level of interest required to go the RPTQ route. And maybe that type of player is a lot more common that WOTC thought.
They used to hand out things to all players of sanctioned events.
The Spike v Johnny posts illustrate my original point. If you spend all of your effort bringing in Johnny and Timmy, don't be surprised when they mix poorly with Spike (and for that matter each other) and play EDH instead, leaving no events for Spike and LGS having to cancel events.
Standard is designed to appeal to Johnny and Timmy and not spike (who likes to control his draws and minimise his variance, thank you very much), but events need Spikes because they actually turn up and don't decide they would rather go down KFC and play commander later.
That vented, if this was a promotion that catered to MTG players as a whole and not just Standard players, I'd bite.
If the cost of mailing too high, please think something else.
Want to get people more interested and invested in Standard? Make the format better, don't just give (slightly) more prizes.
I can also foresee smaller LGS whacking for themselves, and bigger chains like SCG hoarding them. Seriously, I'm failing to see any net benefit for Standard in the long run with this program.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
If you want to win the packs, play competitively. If you don't care about playing competitively, just play FNM. If you don't like FNM, then you're going to complain about any standard event that exists, so your complaint about this doesn't really mean much.
Standard is in a fine place right now, especially for those that are competitive minded. If you don't like the competitive mindset, play a casual format.