Turbofog

  • #1
    The Lorwyn Meta is going to be lots and lots of aggro. Kithkin weenies, Greater Goyf, Goblins and any of the Tier 2 decks like Merfolk and the aggro/control faeries. Control is going to get rid of counters for void and removal (void for 2 against GW is ridiculous). Turbofog is going to want as much removal, targeted and mass, as possible.

    My list:
    Lands: 23
    Mostly basics. H-Canopies and Urborgs.

    Spells:
    4x Howling Mine
    4x Rites of Flourishing
    4x Sunscour
    4x Wrath of God
    2x Damnation
    4x Oblivion Ring: Kills anything, even opposing O-rings wrecking your turbo
    3x Tendrils of Corruption: this card is great for post-Wrath when they drop their first creature. Huge swing in life and good targeted removal.
    4x Dawn Charm (counters burn)
    4x Pollen Lullaby (can prevent damage for 2 turns and smooth draws)
    4x Holy Day

    SB:
    4x Underworld Dreams (Against Control, it adds more threats for them to deal with. do they mill or do they take twenty?)
    4x Luminesce (Against big burn spells)
    4x Krosan Grip
    3x Terror (Gaddock Teeg can ruin you)

    Jace isn't needed and probably wouldn't survive long in the meta.
  • #2
    You need something like Gaea's Blessing x2 or millstone to avoid milling yourself.


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  • #3
    So, where is your win condition? Or is your plan to stall the opponent until they mill out and quit?

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  • #4
    Quote from Shinigami
    So, where is your win condition? Or is your plan to stall the opponent until they mill out and quit?


    The win condition is mill; usually, the Howling Mines, Rites, and Jace will probably draw them out more quickly than usual in addition to providing you with fuel, and more times than not Jace's third ability comes down to do some ass-whupping (I bet you never believed you'd hear that. It's a win-win situation; you overload their hand with so many cards that card advantage is no longer relevant, so you get to use fog effects to stall the game out all day long. It's actually a fairly strong strategy.

  • #5
    Quote from Shinigami
    So, where is your win condition? Or is your plan to stall the opponent until they mill out and quit?

    That's exactly it. Since your opponent will draw cards off of Rites or Howling Mine, they'll die first.

    You might want to consider Darkness. And running a three-colour deck with duals, karoos, or signets is dangerous, you probably need Terramorphic Expanse.

    [Edit]
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  • #6
    I think that the theory goes that because they draw first from a Mine effect, they'll deck themselves first. Hooray for theoretical win conditions!

    However, that list cuts it a bit too close for my liking. You have no way to force them to make their library smaller apart from drawing and the mine effects. A single 'target player draws a card' spell, or a random Angel's grace, or even a random Green Command means that you'll lose. 10 Wraths, in addition to 12 fogs, *and* in addition to 7 spot removal spells may be a bit of overkill, too. I have another version of a turbo-fog deck that I'm working on that I'd like feedback on:

    TurboFogMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Mouth of Ronom
    4 Arctic Flats
    3 Snow-Covered Forest
    11 Snow-Covered Plains

    4 Howling Mine
    4 Rites of Flourishing

    4 Dawn Charm
    4 Holy Day
    4 Martyr of Sands
    3 Chronomatic Escape

    4 Wrath of God
    4 Oblivion Ring
    2 Sunscour

    2 Story Circle
    3 Jester's Scepter


    Chronomatic Escape is great, as it is a recurring fog. 6 Wraths are often enough, Story Circle helps against burn, and allows you to ration fogs more effectively. Mouth of Ronom is a great answer to Teferi and Gaddok, and Jester's Scepter mills for five, and occassionally counters problem cards.

    I want to find a way, though, to fit in 3 or 4 Extripates main, as it too helps mill and removes annoying cards put into a graveyard via Mouth or Wrath. What do I take out for them, however?

    In regards to Pollen Lullaby, I may go to a 3-3-3 split between Holy Day, Dawn Charm, and Lullaby, and run 61 cards main.
  • #7
    Does no one but me see the beauty of Force Fruition? I geuss its win more, but it has to have an answer immediately or there gonna be toast from there out.
    I need a new signature. If you want to make me one, tell me. I'm too lazy to think of any new ideas.
  • #8
    Kaebora,
    Your list is fine. However, I suggest adding 2 Gaea's Blessing maindeck. Not only does it put fogs/wraths back into your deck but it almost guarantees you'll win by decking. Unless you have all of your Howling Mine effects on the field, an opponent's Extirpate would make the decking game a bit too close.
    In a list my group ran a few months ago, we had Loaming Shaman maindeck... it's too bad it's no longer around. Gaea's Blessing had to replace it.. but it's far better than expected.

    Also, don't be tempted by Pollen Lullaby to take out Holy Days or Dawn Charms. Dawn Charm is one of the most powerful cards in the deck. If anything, run 4 Holy Day, 4 Dawn Charm, and 2 Pollen Lullaby for a total of 10 fogs. With Gaea's Blessing, this is always going to be enough. Wrath of God is basically Fog #11-15 anyway. On that note, Chronomantic Escape may not even be needed.. unless your experience says otherwise? I may suggest putting in a couple of Beacon of Immortalitys considering the loss of Proclamation of Rebirth from Standard.
    Thanks for reading.
    All I am saying..is give peas a chance.

    On a path toward Legacy.
  • #9
    I was just thinking, alternate-win-condition-wise, Ajani Goldmane might not be horrible here. You add two counters and then put an avatar into play, and if the opponent decides to go at Ajani, all the better, he just turned into a fog for you, eh?

    I also second the addition of Beacon of Immortality, it is a MEGAFOGFTW!.
    I need a new signature. If you want to make me one, tell me. I'm too lazy to think of any new ideas.
  • #10
    Quote from RSIxidor
    Does no one but me see the beauty of Force Fruition? I geuss its win more, but it has to have an answer immediately or there gonna be toast from there out.

    the problem with force fruition is, even if they have only 1 out to it in their deck, they'll draw into it with their whole library in their hands, and afterwards they'll just have a rigged hand with threats to counter your deck. Might be a tech in game 1 though, most decks dont pack enchantment removal at all, game 2/3 side it out.
  • #11
    Sunscour or Austere Command?
  • #12
    You can easily add martyr of sands to this to gain 12 life or something.
    Ye Olde.

    Quote from Bryspoon
    Wait a minute - how does everlasting torment screw swans?
  • #13
    No one seems to understand -- this deck wins by decking, yes, and prevents itself by forcing the opponent to draw off the Mines and Rites first. If your opponent mills one or two of your cards, you're still fine because you're going to play more Mines and Rites. It's not worth wasting maindeck card slots for a safety valve on an unlikely event. At the very most, but one Gaea's Blessing in the sideboard.

    That said, don't try to mill your own cards. Terramorphic Expance is an okay card, but definitely not in this deck, as it will offset the milling advantage from making your opponents draw first off Mines.
  • #14
    Quote from btraut
    No one seems to understand -- this deck wins by decking, yes, and prevents itself by forcing the opponent to draw off the Mines and Rites first. If your opponent mills one or two of your cards, you're still fine because you're going to play more Mines and Rites. It's not worth wasting maindeck card slots for a safety valve on an unlikely event. At the very most, but one Gaea's Blessing in the sideboard.

    That said, don't try to mill your own cards. Terramorphic Expance is an okay card, but definitely not in this deck, as it will offset the milling advantage from making your opponents draw first off Mines.



    I'm not sure if it's our misunderstanding. If your opponent has cards that "mill one or two" then they'll most likely have more than 1 of those in their deck. Those "mill one or two" cards add up. If they have 4 of those "mill one or two" cards, then suddenly your 8 howling mine effects will win half of the time. I don't think I've come across the situation where I've had all 8 Howling Mine effects in play at one time anyway.
    The deck requires some way to refill the library.. and Gaea's Blessing is perfect for the spot. It's only 2 slots anyway.. out of the handful of cards you may be drawing every turn.
    Thanks for reading.
    All I am saying..is give peas a chance.

    On a path toward Legacy.
  • #15
    I think this could be a good version of the deck


    hyggli's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Mouth of Ronom
    7 Snow-Plains
    4 Snow-Forest
    1 Horizon Canopy
    4 Brushland
    1 Urza’s Factory

    4 Martyr of sands

    4 Howling Mine
    4 Rites of Flourishing
    4 Chronomatic escape
    4 Holy day
    4 Lullaby
    4 Dawn Charm
    4 Wrath of God
    4 Story Circle
    2 Gaea’s Blessing

    but i'm sorry to say this deck could not go get popularity nor victories in big competitions although it has potential.
  • #16
    Perhaps some Angel's Graces and/or Platinum Angels instead of Gaea's Blessing to avoid getting milled yourself. I like this deck. I'm thinking of quiting for a while because my lovely Ravnica's gone but this deck gave me some interest again. I'm a gold sucker but also a white fan-boy. And perhaps Jace Beleren is better than Rites of Flourishing? To also avoid getting milled yourself.

    What is the deck's answer to pickles and control? Discard won't be that much of a problem because of draws. What can the deck do to avoid getting locked down?
    White is the one color for equality. So how do you get advantage when you're unwilling to give yourself a leg up? You find a way to turn equality into a weapon. Make it active and offensive. Wrath of God answers this call. Evening the playing field is quite aggressive when you're the one behind. Or you're the one that knew such an event was coming and planned ahead. Wrath of God gives the most defensive color some teeth. - MaRo http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr164

  • #17
    Wow these builds of fog are a bit off in the decks idea... why do you need wrath again? why do you need blessing. The deck should be running around 20 fog effects roughly with 22-24 land the 8 mines. Also the answer to the question how do you not deck out hasnt changed since Timespiral came out. You use chronosavant because of the wording of escapes it+escape= you win... seriously someone should find the thread on here from the last build which was pretty good. The main problem this deck has is burn(duh) however with demonfire amongst other things gone i see that as less of a problem. The new problem will be dealing with goyfrack(which has always caused this deck headaches) pre lorwyn imperial mask was the best anti goyfrack measure available to this deck(always one turn to late, its not as good as ivory mask). However goyfrack without Confidant and cry will be more aggro based more than likely so turbofogs matchup should improve there as well.
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  • #18
    Poolshark (mind if I don't call you Fatguy?),
    I suppose the versions of this deck nowadays run Wrath is because it answers creatures that are problematic to our strategy. Dark Confidant in B/G Rack, Platinum Angel, the red Rusalka are examples of these. It also just takes the pressure off for a measly 4 mana. With the build you're suggesting (the original style), you wouldn't need Wraths. However, Fogs by themselves don't answer Teferi and the like. I suppose we really just need answers for Teferi. I agree that a build that runs 20 Fogs could be decent however.

    By the way, Chronosavant plus Chronomantic Escape is an interesting combo that I haven't seen. I like it. However, it still just has major issues against Teferi, the main problem for the deck. If the deck had more answers to Teferi besides Mouth of Ronom, then heck yes. Story Circle was adapted by my group as an auto-3 or 4-of, which was great in a format with Korlash and red decks. Martyr of Sands and Proclamation of Rebirth handed Red some problems and Story Circle just locked them out. I guess that was the answer to red. Red may still have some life yet though. Big Red decks that are transporting over from Block may become popular, with Molten Disaster, Riddle of Lightning, etc... and that's a problem. More lifegain or Story Circle is key, I feel.

    I agree that B/G Rack has lost a bit of flare with the loss of Dark Confidant (MORE than a huge loss) and Cry of Contrition. My group and I put 4 True Believers maindeck just for that matchup.. and what a beautiful card it was (and still is). If they didn't draw Smallpox early enough to deal with it, then we just maintain so much card advantage that they are just out of the game and can't deal with Story Circle. Now they'll have Thoughtseize, but I'd rather be playing against Thoughtseize than Dark Confidant and Cry of Contrition.

    Thanks for the Chronosavant idea, bud.
    Thanks for reading.


    Edit:
    charmedcharmer,
    Pickles is very problematic for us as you can see. There aren't many answers except to run maybe Extirpate to get rid of Vesuvan Shapeshifter or Brine Elemental. I developed a B/G/w version of this deck that ran more targeted removal (Sudden Death) and Extirpate to have a better matchup against that deck. This mostly-white version has lots of problems with it. However, Poolshark just mentioned Chronosavant..... which could be excellent in that matchup.
    Thanks for reading.
    Last edited by Ravage: 10/1/2007 8:31:36 AM
    All I am saying..is give peas a chance.

    On a path toward Legacy.
  • #19
    Quote from charmedcharmer
    Perhaps some Angel's Graces and/or Platinum Angels instead of Gaea's Blessing to avoid getting milled yourself. I like this deck. I'm thinking of quiting for a while because my lovely Ravnica's gone but this deck gave me some interest again. I'm a gold sucker but also a white fan-boy. And perhaps Jace Beleren is better than Rites of Flourishing? To also avoid getting milled yourself.

    What is the deck's answer to pickles and control? Discard won't be that much of a problem because of draws. What can the deck do to avoid getting locked down?


    Reading is tech. You won't mill yourself because your opponent draws FIRST off howling mine and rites of flourishing.
    Ye Olde.

    Quote from Bryspoon
    Wait a minute - how does everlasting torment screw swans?
  • #20
    charmed: Really, the G/W version of the deck that I posted earlier has a few outs, but none of them are really good: Wrath costs 4, and will probably be countered. Oblivion Ring costs 3, and will probably be countered. Sunscour is free, but will probably be countered. Mouth of Ronom costs essentially six, can't be countered, but if they have another shapeshifter in hand, then, well...

    Ravage: I'm not a big fan of Gaea's Blessing. It's a good card, but I'm not fond of it in this deck. I've almost never had to recycle cards.

    Chronosavant seems ok, but again, giving pickles that much time to lock you down, seems to be rather... iffy. Maybe in the sideboard.

    I really do think splashing black for Extripate helps a lot against control decks, especially with a Jester's Scepter. I'm just having trouble deciding what to get rid of. Oblivion Ring is a good, secondary way to get rid of Gaddok and Teferi for cheap, in addition to Mouthing them. Escape is a great recurring fog, Scepter speeds up the win, and occassionally counters bad spells, Story Circle is great, as it allows you to ration fogs, especially post-Wrath. Everything else is pretty much set in stone, so what can I get rid of for the 'pates?

    As well, to those worried about self-mill, then why not add Feldon's Cane as a one-of to prevent self-mill?

    Which also reminds me, what can be run to answer the cane? I wouldn't be surprised to see it in some sideboards as a counter to this deck.
  • #21
    I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet.

    If you are able to get the mana to work, Jace (the blue Planeswalker) fits right into this deck. He helps add more consistency as yet another howling mine effect and if he lasts long enough he can take them down much sooner while also making sure you won't end up decking yourself when the time comes.

    I've found this deck to have the most trouble with two types of decks. 1: RDW where all this card draw is just letting them draw more burn, the vast majority of which we can't stop. 2: Decks with an EoT Teferi. The continued card draw will allow them to keep drawing counters to block our attempts to kill him, the only methods are Sudden Death and Mouth of Ronom, neither of which is very desirable.

    Finally, I've actually faced several MBC decks that play Underworld Dreams MD. I can't fathom why they would but for whatever reason they do, it screws us up. I'm tempted to run Austere Command as opposed to Wrath simply so we might be able to get rid of threats like those.

    I've also been using Intervention Pact and Imperial Mask primarily for use against RDW, but also has some use against MBC. Imperial Mask comes in pretty late, but if you can get it out it's crippling for the opponent and essentially gives you the game. Though, one time I played it my opponent played Manabarbs which unfortunately led to my death.
    Winner of the March CCL Contest
  • #22
    i have been playing that deck for quite a while now, mainly a GWB version with extirpate as win condition. and my geas blessing is in the sideboard too. and i do run 2 moth of ronom vs teferi.

    jace is only one mine for you that ends up being a bit better later at the cost of being legendary. imo that blows. theres so many games when you get 2 rites of flourishing and no mines. if you cant sucessfully play out all your card draw youre probably dead. ajani unimpressive to say the least. if you want a win condition try hoofprint of the stag. but most people i know who thought it would be the bomb took it out too.

    most decks here run 16 fog effects isnt that far too much? 10-12 are usually enough. so many fogs dont really help but just make the deck extremely tight in fighting creatures based aggro only. 3 story circles instead of 3 fogs. helps fight burn and teferi. try seths tiger as a burn counter and fog in one. the only thing story circle sucks at fighting is urzas factory and the decks playing that atm win anyway.

    Sunscour or Austere Command?
    sunscour because you draw so many cards.



    What is the deck's answer to pickles and control? Discard won't be that much of a problem because of draws. What can the deck do to avoid getting locked down?
    nothing if the pickles player knows what hes doing. this deck isnt about being able to kill everything. its like an anti owling mine. in this case it ravages any kind of aggro deck, while ususally folding to u/x control. its a metagame deck and the meta seems to fit right now.
  • #23
    Yea, when playing the mine version, sunscour is the card of choice. You have tons of targets to pitch, and sunscour might randomly break you out of a pickle lock if you can sneak it in at the right time.

    Playing the milling version straight is bad. Just howling mines and rites is asking to get careful consideration'd, then lose off of that. I'd suggest maindeck jester's scepter to put them even farther behind. Ajani is amazing, and probably should be run in an aggro metagame.
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  • #24
    in an aggro metagame? the whole deck is designed to run in an aggro metagame it cant survive anywhere else.

    all ajani does is make actually give the enemy a target for his spot removal. at the insane amount of card draw odds he will be able to block that avatar each turn are rather high.

    a deck running careful consideration probably beats you without it anyway. counter the card draw engine and kill you.

    if you want the mill version to become more resistant use gemstone mines and extirpates. geas in the sb is quite logical, so is whetwheel if you actually face a deck that can race you.

    i agree though that playing GW mill only without any kind of security may backfire easily. better get one green command or feldons cane for that version. cane is cheap, the green command isnt that dead against others, lets you fetch martyr and gain 7 if life is short
    Last edited by Felexitus: 10/1/2007 3:05:42 PM
  • #25
    Quote from Onoez
    Reading is tech. You won't mill yourself because your opponent draws FIRST off howling mine and rites of flourishing.


    Indeed, its just a JUST IN CASE panic button in which your opponent MIGHT HAVE something that will cause you to mill yourself instead of him.


    Also, Another problem with Sudden Death + Extirpate against pickles is Willbender. It will definitiely screw us. Smile
    Last edited by charmedcharmer: 10/1/2007 7:16:28 PM
    White is the one color for equality. So how do you get advantage when you're unwilling to give yourself a leg up? You find a way to turn equality into a weapon. Make it active and offensive. Wrath of God answers this call. Evening the playing field is quite aggressive when you're the one behind. Or you're the one that knew such an event was coming and planned ahead. Wrath of God gives the most defensive color some teeth. - MaRo http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr164

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