Been lurking the past few days reading up and getting ideas of how to build this deck since it seems there is UR, Jeskai and Boros versions, is white worth it for Blessed Alliance & Fragmentize or does UR do the job fine just by itself? Also would 1-2 Combustible Gearhulks be good in the deck? Seems threatening to deal a lot of damage through milling colossus, a Skysovereign + another card, or Elder Deep Fiend or draw 3 cards would make it a good card in this deck. Worst case scenario is three lands you didn't want to draw into.
Another question being glassblower or metalspinner puzzleknot? One draws and the other scrys 2 and gives two energy which is useful for aether hub and harnessed lightning
Thanks for the insight my friend.
One thing though, you have white and red cards on the sideboard but you dont play any land that produces those colors. Are you relying only on the caravans and the prophetic prism filtering? is that enough to not get color screw? (specially with sabotage that requires 2 red)
I have had no issue with casting the sideboard cards. You get to draw alot of cards with prisms and puzzleknots plus you get to filter through cards with glint-nest crane. You really need all your lands to come into play untapped and you need 13 sources of blue to insure you can cast elder deep-fiend for emerge and use engulf the shore effectively out of the sideboard.
Im going to play a PPTQ next saturday with your 75 exacly. I really hope i never get colour screw on the sabotage.
Because if i do, im gonna find you and you will pay!!!!
Im going to play a PPTQ next saturday with your 75 exacly. I really hope i never get colour screw on the sabotage.
Because if i do, im gonna find you and you will pay!!!!
Thats fine but that means if you win you have to share your prize
In my case, i'm having great results with a jeskai list, it have answer to everithing pre and post board. The only tricky match up is WU flash, in this one u have to bait their counter before going off.
Another thing is, i'm swaping familiars for inspectors frequently and can't decide with one is the best. Inspectors are great pilots and lower the costs of the deck, but the familiars buys u so much time and give card draw as well as consuming problematic removal like declaration in stone in the early stages of the game.
PS.: Sorry for my english, i'm at work and being lazy to use google translate for some expressions;words
Your deck seems identical to the one I top 8ed regionals with a couple weeks back.
I definitely think foundry inspector is the better play. I started jamming 4 and never looked back. I also tried matter reshaper. I like Foundry Inspector best.
I've tried losing the glint nest cranes. I think its fine without them.
I also no longer play fumigate.
Instead I play 4 Thought-Knot Seers and 2 more blessed alliance main.
I think Blessed Alliance is bonkers in this deck. All 3 modes are super relevant. Crewing two vehicles and then untapping for additional damage often times just wins you the game.
Hopefully this is helpful as I like this deck a lot and would like to see it continue to evolve.
What do you guys think of Eldrazi Mimic in the 75, it dawned on me watching an modern event that Mimic says colorless creature not eldrazi creature which I thought it was for some reason, its like a creature version of Hanweir Battlements and you can ambush people when attacking with Mimic by flashing in Elder Deep Fiend.
My first instinct was that it could be good, but on reflection, I don't think it solves any of the decks problems. Not power 3, so it can't pilot on it's own. Not an artifact, so it can't be sacrificed to bring back colossus. It probably warrants testing, but in place of what? Also, the deck that gives me the most problems is uw flash, and this doesn't do much against them. I do like that people are still searching for a way to put this deck to the top!!
I have been having good success in the MTGO 2-man queues with the list posted by Zealous Conscripts. The deck is a lot of fun to play. It reminds me a little bit of the Modern Urzatron experience.
A couple of observations:
U/W Flash is tough. They run a lot of answers for us in their main deck.
Key to the City felt like a sideboard card. It was rare for a deck to successfully execute the chump block -> kill plan against me. A hasted 10/10 body is tough for most to deal with and Elder Deep-Fiend is an effective breakthrough mechanism that can be fetched if needed.
A pair of Skysovereign, Consul Flagship--put in at the expense of one Key and one Puzzleknot--made for a nice board stabilizer and backup finisher.
Cards I want to try out:
Sphinx of the Final Word as sideboard tech against U/W. He might tilt the grindy counter battle in our favor.
There must be some planeswalker that's good in a ramp deck, right? Maybe Sorin, Grim Nemesis.
Philosophically I feel like this deck can either go for a mega-combo kind of feel or a midrange value kind of play. Ideally it would be good at both. The mana base presents so many options that it's hard to figure out the best way to go.
tears of valakut is something I've wanted to try for uw flash matchup. Deadlock trap I go back and forth on being decent/terrible. The comes into play tapped is brutal. Makes harnessed lightning easier to cast for big value, but I like colorless spatial contortion for ease of casting. Padeem, consul of innovation is something that has been mentioned in original post. Anyone tried it, and thoughts if you have? Hermit of the natterknolls is something I'm seriously considering as 3 or 4 for uw flash sideboard card in list running green and Sylvan scrying mainboard.
After playing with this some more and running into some of the staple decks in the format I think I can see some issues.
As a combo deck this is just too slow. You can only go off on turn 4 if you get the god hand. If you have to do any kind of filtering (i.e. Glint Crane) or interacting with the board then you're looking at turn five at best.
After you go off you can still lose to many of the standard removal spells in the format (Declaration in Stone, Stasis Snare, Immolating Glare, even Unlicensed Disintegration in aggro decks). You can play around it to some degree but a combo that doesn't actually kill the opponent when it goes off isn't much of a combo.
The deck is not well suited for a control role. All of the permission is in the sideboard and if you try to be reactive then you aren't developing your side of the board.
As a midrange value kind of deck the threat density is way too low. The cards are also dependent on each other to accomplish anything. When I tried to tinker around the edges by fitting some planeswalkers into the deck this became pretty obvious. The planeswalkers might be strong on their own but weakening the synergy of everything else more than outweighed the value. I couldn't find a planeswalker with synergy, although Saheeli Rai seems like she ought to have synergy.
I could be making some misplays but I feel like I'm at a disadvantage against the top decks in the format.
After playing with this some more and running into some of the staple decks in the format I think I can see some issues.
As a combo deck this is just too slow. You can only go off on turn 4 if you get the god hand. If you have to do any kind of filtering (i.e. Glint Crane) or interacting with the board then you're looking at turn five at best.
After you go off you can still lose to many of the standard removal spells in the format (Declaration in Stone, Stasis Snare, Immolating Glare, even Unlicensed Disintegration in aggro decks). You can play around it to some degree but a combo that doesn't actually kill the opponent when it goes off isn't much of a combo.
The deck is not well suited for a control role. All of the permission is in the sideboard and if you try to be reactive then you aren't developing your side of the board.
As a midrange value kind of deck the threat density is way too low. The cards are also dependent on each other to accomplish anything. When I tried to tinker around the edges by fitting some planeswalkers into the deck this became pretty obvious. The planeswalkers might be strong on their own but weakening the synergy of everything else more than outweighed the value. I couldn't find a planeswalker with synergy, although Saheeli Rai seems like she ought to have synergy.
I could be making some misplays but I feel like I'm at a disadvantage against the top decks in the format.
A lot of people call this a combo deck but IMHO this really is a midrange ramp deck that goes bigger than all of the decks out there (except for aetherworks marvel). I don't know which list you are playing but I recommend that you try playing Marcos Paulo's or LSV's list to really experience the true power of this deck.
I have been having good success in the MTGO 2-man queues with the list posted by Zealous Conscripts. The deck is a lot of fun to play. It reminds me a little bit of the Modern Urzatron experience.
A couple of observations:
U/W Flash is tough. They run a lot of answers for us in their main deck.
Key to the City felt like a sideboard card. It was rare for a deck to successfully execute the chump block -> kill plan against me. A hasted 10/10 body is tough for most to deal with and Elder Deep-Fiend is an effective breakthrough mechanism that can be fetched if needed.
A pair of Skysovereign, Consul Flagship--put in at the expense of one Key and one Puzzleknot--made for a nice board stabilizer and backup finisher.
Cards I want to try out:
Sphinx of the Final Word as sideboard tech against U/W. He might tilt the grindy counter battle in our favor.
There must be some planeswalker that's good in a ramp deck, right? Maybe Sorin, Grim Nemesis.
Philosophically I feel like this deck can either go for a mega-combo kind of feel or a midrange value kind of play. Ideally it would be good at both. The mana base presents so many options that it's hard to figure out the best way to go.
I think 2-3 Skysovereign is a must main deck. The ship could easily be an alternate win con and it eats spell queller for breakfast. I'm also wandering why so few of these lists play wandering fumarole? That man land is the perfect crew for all of our vehicles. The same is true for lumbering falls if you're playing the temur version.
After playing with this some more and running into some of the staple decks in the format I think I can see some issues.
As a combo deck this is just too slow. You can only go off on turn 4 if you get the god hand. If you have to do any kind of filtering (i.e. Glint Crane) or interacting with the board then you're looking at turn five at best.
After you go off you can still lose to many of the standard removal spells in the format (Declaration in Stone, Stasis Snare, Immolating Glare, even Unlicensed Disintegration in aggro decks). You can play around it to some degree but a combo that doesn't actually kill the opponent when it goes off isn't much of a combo.
The deck is not well suited for a control role. All of the permission is in the sideboard and if you try to be reactive then you aren't developing your side of the board.
As a midrange value kind of deck the threat density is way too low. The cards are also dependent on each other to accomplish anything. When I tried to tinker around the edges by fitting some planeswalkers into the deck this became pretty obvious. The planeswalkers might be strong on their own but weakening the synergy of everything else more than outweighed the value. I couldn't find a planeswalker with synergy, although Saheeli Rai seems like she ought to have synergy.
I could be making some misplays but I feel like I'm at a disadvantage against the top decks in the format.
I've been trying out several different versions and I know exactly what you mean. I can't recommend forerunner of slaughter enough as a one-of because he lets you kill the same turn you go off. I've also been testing out a more spell heavy version with a few torrential gearhulks to play a more controlling role. Prisms, Archives, caravans, and skyships all feel fine in a more controlling list. Essentially just pre-boarded with more removal and countermagic. It slows the colossus down sure, but it seems like it's at least worth looking into.
The basic issue that I have is that if you don't play a colossus then the ramp is not very good. It's not like we can crank out a bunch of burly threats and then the colossus is the icing on the cake. The caravan ramps you to five mana on turn four which maybe lets you cast Skysovereign early or emerge a deep fiend through a Glint Crane. Neither of these plays is great, especially when you haven't had any earlier interaction with whatever your opponent is doing.
I think it really is colossus or bust. And if you just get the vanilla combo of a colossus in play + key to the city then your opponent is still only on a two turn clock. To really get a win out of it you need to haste it and ideally also trigger the sanctum and get some vehicle swings in too. There are a lot of tools out there to deal with a vanilla 10/10, and the decks that don't run them will be looking to kill you even through a colossus by the time you have it out.
The LSV video with the deck shows it at its best: if your foundry inspectors survive to crew vehicles and if you get a colossus and if you trigger sanctum when you cast a colossus and if your opponent isn't too aggressive and if your control opponent doesn't understand how to stop the deck then it's great. In my experience the U/W flash deck can put you on a clock and then deal with your attempts to go off and if they curve out inspector -> copter -> queller then you're in deep trouble. The R/B aggro deck will be able to burn you out by the time you get a colossus down unless you get the god hand. Planeswalkers in general are kind of a nightmare since we don't put that much pressure on the opponent.
I really want this deck to be good. I enjoy playing it while it's clicking and I've been trying to win by swinging with fat creatures since the Craw Wurm. I'm just finding it very hard to keep up with the faster decks in the format.
Maybe there's something to be said for an Eldrazi ramp/beatdown package combined with some vehicles and the colossus? Pure theorycrafting, but maybe some combination of:
We could still use the trick lands that produce colorless mana. The colossus wouldn't be as bonkers but it would now be the cherry on top of all the other threats instead of the entire focus of the deck.
I like the idea of running thought-knot seers, forerunners, and reality smashers. I feel like we need more artifacts though just to threaten the colossus train (Copter would fit well in your list, and probably fleetwheel cruiser too). I'll definitely give something like that a spin. This is the more controlish list I was talking about:
I am trying this deck out right now (LSV list) and am thinking about Saheeli Rai.
Burning our opponent and finding key cards faster seems like a good thing. Not to mention that she gives us a lot of colossus acceleration with all the tokens (If I get it right if they're copies of artifacts they have the CMC?)
I am trying this deck out right now (LSV list) and am thinking about Saheeli Rai.
Burning our opponent and finding key cards faster seems like a good thing. Not to mention that she gives us a lot of colossus acceleration with all the tokens (If I get it right if they're copies of artifacts they have the CMC?)
She should be good. I tried her for a while and didn't have great results. She doesn't enable the combo directly except by scrying. The burn is not often relevant. We also don't routinely have the board presence needed to defend her. Once you get a colossus out she's a little bit win-more.
She really should be good value by copying, e.g. glint-nest cranes and hedron archives and such. I just found that she was typically: Scry 1, burn opponent for 1, gain four life. She might have a place in a more controlling build.
This been a deck I have been brewing up and only recently found the 'real' version of the list was Temur and almost completely different than my own. Now then to explain a few things the deck splits at its hand quickly as well all know and uses Shapers and Thalia to slow down aggro in conjunction with something like the white mana enchantment. After I have spat my hand out I then try to refuel with a variety of tools. Notably for example use Glassblower to Dig, Innovation I try to setup turn 2-3 or so, every Ramp Fact proceeding good old Collosus will give 4 energy at least. And can use Glassblower to make sure I only get hits for what I need.
I can turn excessive ramp to draw via sacking Archive or using a magnifying glass (which does admittedly take an entire turn). Then once I draw in Kozi I play him out refill the hand and ride him to victory.
One thing to mention I plan on adding 4 Aether Hubs over Port Towns sooner rather than late later eventually
I am trying this deck out right now (LSV list) and am thinking about Saheeli Rai.
Burning our opponent and finding key cards faster seems like a good thing. Not to mention that she gives us a lot of colossus acceleration with all the tokens (If I get it right if they're copies of artifacts they have the CMC?)
All right I checked Saheeli and indeed she's a bit underwhelming. If anything she either helped when the game was already won or added some mana towards the big guy, but for 3CMC I was almost always able to cast it without her help... Going to ultimate to find Colossus is way to slow anyway.
Another thought is about removal. Welding Sparks seems to be potentially better than Spatial Contortion. Do you think it's worth trying? Or is 3CMC a big issue? 1 red at this point does not seem like a big deal to me...
Spatial Contortion comes down on time to kill Smuggler's Copter. It also fights through Avacyn and Selfless Spirit. If you completely lack for viable targets you can use it as a pump spell in a pinch.
Welding Sparks can kill bigger dudes but it's a little finicky (i.e. still struggles with maxed out Greenhulks) and it can't go to the dome.
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Another question being glassblower or metalspinner puzzleknot? One draws and the other scrys 2 and gives two energy which is useful for aether hub and harnessed lightning
I have had no issue with casting the sideboard cards. You get to draw alot of cards with prisms and puzzleknots plus you get to filter through cards with glint-nest crane. You really need all your lands to come into play untapped and you need 13 sources of blue to insure you can cast elder deep-fiend for emerge and use engulf the shore effectively out of the sideboard.
Because if i do, im gonna find you and you will pay!!!!
Thats fine but that means if you win you have to share your prize
4 Cultivator's Caravan
2 Elder Deep-Fiend
4 Filigree Familiar
2 Fumigate
4 Galvanic Bombardment
4 Glint-Nest Crane
2 Hedron Archive
3 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
2 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
4 Prophetic Prism
4 Metalwork Colossus
4 Aether Hub
4 Inspiring Vantage
2 Inventors' Fair
6 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Blessed Alliance
3 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Fragmentize
1 Fumigate
3 Negate
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Another thing is, i'm swaping familiars for inspectors frequently and can't decide with one is the best. Inspectors are great pilots and lower the costs of the deck, but the familiars buys u so much time and give card draw as well as consuming problematic removal like declaration in stone in the early stages of the game.
PS.: Sorry for my english, i'm at work and being lazy to use google translate for some expressions;words
I definitely think foundry inspector is the better play. I started jamming 4 and never looked back. I also tried matter reshaper. I like Foundry Inspector best.
I've tried losing the glint nest cranes. I think its fine without them.
I also no longer play fumigate.
Instead I play 4 Thought-Knot Seers and 2 more blessed alliance main.
I think Blessed Alliance is bonkers in this deck. All 3 modes are super relevant. Crewing two vehicles and then untapping for additional damage often times just wins you the game.
Hopefully this is helpful as I like this deck a lot and would like to see it continue to evolve.
A couple of observations:
Cards I want to try out:
Philosophically I feel like this deck can either go for a mega-combo kind of feel or a midrange value kind of play. Ideally it would be good at both. The mana base presents so many options that it's hard to figure out the best way to go.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsan16/top-8-decklists-2016-10-30
As a combo deck this is just too slow. You can only go off on turn 4 if you get the god hand. If you have to do any kind of filtering (i.e. Glint Crane) or interacting with the board then you're looking at turn five at best.
After you go off you can still lose to many of the standard removal spells in the format (Declaration in Stone, Stasis Snare, Immolating Glare, even Unlicensed Disintegration in aggro decks). You can play around it to some degree but a combo that doesn't actually kill the opponent when it goes off isn't much of a combo.
The deck is not well suited for a control role. All of the permission is in the sideboard and if you try to be reactive then you aren't developing your side of the board.
As a midrange value kind of deck the threat density is way too low. The cards are also dependent on each other to accomplish anything. When I tried to tinker around the edges by fitting some planeswalkers into the deck this became pretty obvious. The planeswalkers might be strong on their own but weakening the synergy of everything else more than outweighed the value. I couldn't find a planeswalker with synergy, although Saheeli Rai seems like she ought to have synergy.
I could be making some misplays but I feel like I'm at a disadvantage against the top decks in the format.
A lot of people call this a combo deck but IMHO this really is a midrange ramp deck that goes bigger than all of the decks out there (except for aetherworks marvel). I don't know which list you are playing but I recommend that you try playing Marcos Paulo's or LSV's list to really experience the true power of this deck.
I've been trying out several different versions and I know exactly what you mean. I can't recommend forerunner of slaughter enough as a one-of because he lets you kill the same turn you go off. I've also been testing out a more spell heavy version with a few torrential gearhulks to play a more controlling role. Prisms, Archives, caravans, and skyships all feel fine in a more controlling list. Essentially just pre-boarded with more removal and countermagic. It slows the colossus down sure, but it seems like it's at least worth looking into.
I think it really is colossus or bust. And if you just get the vanilla combo of a colossus in play + key to the city then your opponent is still only on a two turn clock. To really get a win out of it you need to haste it and ideally also trigger the sanctum and get some vehicle swings in too. There are a lot of tools out there to deal with a vanilla 10/10, and the decks that don't run them will be looking to kill you even through a colossus by the time you have it out.
The LSV video with the deck shows it at its best: if your foundry inspectors survive to crew vehicles and if you get a colossus and if you trigger sanctum when you cast a colossus and if your opponent isn't too aggressive and if your control opponent doesn't understand how to stop the deck then it's great. In my experience the U/W flash deck can put you on a clock and then deal with your attempts to go off and if they curve out inspector -> copter -> queller then you're in deep trouble. The R/B aggro deck will be able to burn you out by the time you get a colossus down unless you get the god hand. Planeswalkers in general are kind of a nightmare since we don't put that much pressure on the opponent.
I really want this deck to be good. I enjoy playing it while it's clicking and I've been trying to win by swinging with fat creatures since the Craw Wurm. I'm just finding it very hard to keep up with the faster decks in the format.
Maybe there's something to be said for an Eldrazi ramp/beatdown package combined with some vehicles and the colossus? Pure theorycrafting, but maybe some combination of:
We could still use the trick lands that produce colorless mana. The colossus wouldn't be as bonkers but it would now be the cherry on top of all the other threats instead of the entire focus of the deck.
4 Hedron Archive
4 Prophetic Prism
2 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
4 Metalwork Colossus
1 Elder Deep-Fiend
1 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Harnessed Lightning
2 Torrential Gearhulk
4 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Aether Hub
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Inventors' Fair
2 Spirebluff Canal
4 Island
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Wandering Fumarole
2 Unlicensed Disintegration
1 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
4 Scatter to the Winds
1 Panharmonicon
1 Noxious Gearhulk
I am trying this deck out right now (LSV list) and am thinking about Saheeli Rai.
Burning our opponent and finding key cards faster seems like a good thing. Not to mention that she gives us a lot of colossus acceleration with all the tokens (If I get it right if they're copies of artifacts they have the CMC?)
I am thinking of replacing 1 Panharmonicon and 1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship. Anyone had tried that route already?
She should be good. I tried her for a while and didn't have great results. She doesn't enable the combo directly except by scrying. The burn is not often relevant. We also don't routinely have the board presence needed to defend her. Once you get a colossus out she's a little bit win-more.
She really should be good value by copying, e.g. glint-nest cranes and hedron archives and such. I just found that she was typically: Scry 1, burn opponent for 1, gain four life. She might have a place in a more controlling build.
4 Prairie Stream
4 Port Town
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
4 Island
3 Plains
2 Wastes
Creatures (18)
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Metalwork Colossus
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Glint-Nest Crane
2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Hedron Archive
3 Glassblower's Puzzleknot
3 Magnifying Glass
3 Era of Innovation
2 Authority of the Consuls
2 Haunted Cloak
1 Key to the City
Artifact/Enchantment (6)
3 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
2 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1 Stasis Snare
Instants/Sorcery (9)
3 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Dispel
2 Skywhaler's Shot
2 Fumigate
This been a deck I have been brewing up and only recently found the 'real' version of the list was Temur and almost completely different than my own. Now then to explain a few things the deck splits at its hand quickly as well all know and uses Shapers and Thalia to slow down aggro in conjunction with something like the white mana enchantment. After I have spat my hand out I then try to refuel with a variety of tools. Notably for example use Glassblower to Dig, Innovation I try to setup turn 2-3 or so, every Ramp Fact proceeding good old Collosus will give 4 energy at least. And can use Glassblower to make sure I only get hits for what I need.
I can turn excessive ramp to draw via sacking Archive or using a magnifying glass (which does admittedly take an entire turn). Then once I draw in Kozi I play him out refill the hand and ride him to victory.
One thing to mention I plan on adding 4 Aether Hubs over Port Towns sooner rather than late later eventually
CerberusJund (Modern)GRB
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant Morphentress (Commander) GUB
I also play YGO (DragunFusion) and Hearthstone (Dragon Control Warrior)
4x Metalwork Colossus
4x Glint-Nest Crane
3x Foundry Inspector
2x Filigree Familiar
2x Elder Deep-Fiend
1x Drowner of Hope
1x Marionette Master
4x Prophetic Prism
4x Cultivator's Caravan
3x Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
2x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
2x Hedron Archive
2x Panharmonicon
Instants
2x Spatial Contortion
1x Kozilek's Return
4x Sanctum of Ugin
1x Choked Estuary
2x Inventor's Fair
1x Hanweir Battlements
4x spirebluff canal
4x Aether Hub
7x Island
Another thought is about removal. Welding Sparks seems to be potentially better than Spatial Contortion. Do you think it's worth trying? Or is 3CMC a big issue? 1 red at this point does not seem like a big deal to me...
Welding Sparks can kill bigger dudes but it's a little finicky (i.e. still struggles with maxed out Greenhulks) and it can't go to the dome.