Two versions of this deck placed at the SCG standard open. (1)(2) The basic gameplan is to get out Metalwork Colossus as quickly as possible, while generating a ton of card advantage off of cantrips and other synergystic effects. It also uses Sanctum of Ugin, since Colossus can sort of cheat its trigger. The deck runs 12 total cards than can make mana of any color, making splashing extra colors totally doable. Of course, on the other hand, this deck uses a lot of colorless lands for value, so we can't get too crazy.
Here are the two versions. Funny how the one running Smuggler's Copter (the best card in standard, right?) had a worse record.
The other version was pretty similar, it just had the following changes (the sideboard was fairly different, though). It basically just replaces the puzzleknot with the copter.
First I want to say that I love this deck. I think it has great potential to be a very interesting build, but time will have to hone it and improve on it more as the new format develops.
Smuggler's Copter is probably the worst card in Emma's version. Unlike the vehicle decks we have very little ways to crew it and really capitalize on the creature. It would mostly just sit there are be an artifact for Colossus to reduce it's cost. I'm definitely sold on Metalspinner's replacing it. Spatial contortion is probably not enough removal and I think if this deck wants to survival right now it's going to need more removal. I considered Grixis for Radiant Flames, but the problem with sweepers now is that they can't hit Vehicles, so any top decked knucklehead will immediately crew a 3/3 flyer and they are suddenly back in the race.
I personally feel that with multiple Santcum of Ugin and a full grip of Colossus (and the deck's paradigm to get him out as fast as possible) 2 Elder-Deep Fiends is too little. I would personally like 3. You can keep the chain going this way.
Perhaps the next step is to take a page from the Temurge book and turn the deck into a more grindy midrange deck with recurring threats and graveyard interaction. Maybe some green for Grapple to go full on Temurge with recurring your artifacts, Colossi, and Deep Fiends.
It feels like this should be running the white puzzleknot. Drawing a card and losing a life is fine, but gaining a servo might be better against aggro and then it could pilot the Copter if need be. Also, would switching from Red to Green be better? Wouldn't Larger than Life with trample be better since your giant creatures don't have evasion?
Yes I saw that too. I think a major flaw that the deck has in this early iteration is the lack of board control by means of wipes and early presence. Control decks like this haven't figured out a way to stop aggro and right now spot removal is pretty lack luster. Emma was very much doomed from the start, as any long term engine deck's worst matchup is relentless aggro like Vehicles.
hoffmkr, have you read Emma's article regarding the construction and play style of the deck? Metalwork is more of an enabler for this deck rather than a clock. Yes, on a tapped out board with Deep Fiend and one cleared out it represents a 2 turn clock, but if they have all kinds of stuff to chump it or you are unfavorable board presence Colossus is best crewing Skysoverign or emerging Deep Fiend for full value. Once you really grind them out, then you can start bashing. I think one version ran a Key to the City in the main and, IIRC, one in the side for card selection and for evasion for not only Colossus but our end game like Deep Fiend.
I'm really thinking about committing and picking up the list - I only have 2 problems:
1) I have ZERO idea how to sideboard
2) Br Aggro seem impossible (though these guys are 5-0 mtgo events so yeah Br can't be as bad as it look on paper)
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my only complaint about this list is how badly it folds if the Colossus get exiled.
Well that's why we're playing 4, plus ways to find them, right? Also, Cultivator's Caravan is a legit win con. You just need stuff to crew it.
Yeah... that maybe true for the midrange list - but for Detth's control variant the only wincon is Colossus since you have nothing else which can really attack or crew the vehicles.
- - -
Deadlock Trap is interesting, I like how its relevant no matter the MU.
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Someone has the Oliver Polak-Rottman's Temur Colossus list? With Hanweir Battlements.
Was it this list I posted a few posts above? It looks like that was attempt to reconstruct his list. I personally thought that version was interesting, but a bit silly with its seemingly superfluous Sylvan Scryings and its lack of vehicle crew. I couldn't find the actual list, but I did find a blurb about it saying how important Sylvan Scrying was. I guess if it was playing Hanweir Battlements, Sylvan Scrying starts to look a little better, but still, I'm surprised.
1. Haunted Cloak. Key to the City is probably better, but the ability to play a colossus and immediately attack, with trample, seems like something worth looking into. Also can help Skysovereign deal 6 damage.
2. Manlands. Not having vehicle crew is really annoying, so turning your lands into pilots seems good. We generally want to avoid ETB tapped lands, but 2 manlands probably wouldn't hurt. Only Lumbering Falls and Wandering Fumarole can crew caravans/skysoveriegn, but most decks seem to support one of those combinations.
I love this deck, it's probably one of the most fun decks in standard in a while. It combines basically all of my favorite aspects of the game that you don't really see in standard anymore. Things like cheating on tons of mana, drawing lots of cards, sometimes timewalking your opponent, and a pseudo-combo finish that usually ends the game in a turn or two. Disclaimer: It's basically the list LSV just posted on CFB recently, but he noted that Panharmonicon is probably too cute/slow, and Scrapheap Scrounger as a one of is just miserable while there's no real room for more. I cut the scrounger and one copy of Panharmonicon for a Key to the City, which gives the deck a much needed way to push a colossus or something large through a stalled board to get that last lethal hit in. One copy of the Panharmonicon seems ok for now as there is currently a large influx of control/slower strategies on MODO due to the Pro Tour, so you won't get as punished for having one when it could be something like a main board Harnessed Lightning if you just really wanna kill copters on time, all the time. I also added the third Hedron Archive which again, LSV noted the deck could use an additional copy of. Most all of the lists that have 5-0d leagues on MODO have 3 copies anyway so I think 3 is correct. It's basically the best mana rock to accelerate into off of a Foundry Inspector if you're just looking to jam colossus. After all, there's always the nut draw of t2 prism t3 inspector t4 archivearchive and drop any number of colossus in your hand for free, while potentially also chaining sanctums for more colossi/deep fiend/whatever. Deck rules.
Is it possible to make this a hybrid of ramp/colossus? The deck is already playing Hedron Archive and Cultivators caravan so something like world breaker or even an Ulamog would fit right in.
@siregar0511 - It isn't that it isn't possible. Its extremely possible to run it as a hybrid ramp deck. However, the game right now is extremely aggro heavy in standard. Almost every decklist in the top 20 has extremely strong 2 drops, Copter, and cheap removal as well. So making the choice to shift towards a decklist which is weak against aggro? Probably not the best thing to do.
Also, I notice a lot of lists are using foundry inspector. While it is a great card, a regular 3 drop artifact like Cryptolith Fragment or Magnifying glass reduces the cost of a colossus much more than the inspector does, and isn't as fragile in the aggro matches. Colossus only has its cost reduced by non-creature artifacts. So its a 4v1 reduction (because those 3 drops produce a mana as well). Let alone mass creature removal is staple right now. Kozilek's Return is great, and will kill your inspector... slowing you down while you try and slow the aggro down.
Also worth noting, most aggro decks would burn down the foundry inspector just because it would slow you down. Makes it rather counter productive.
Magnifying Glass/Cryptolith Fragment are not exactly what I'm looking to put into my constructed decks. Same goes for haunted cloak really. The colossus shells already operate on a level of "playing some relatively less powerful cards to enable many strong synergies." It doesn't need more low impact cards in that regard. Inspector dying to removal is not a valid argument against running him when he offers a very powerful effect that the deck will gladly take advantage of. Reducing the cost of your archives, boats, and caravans among others is a very relevant aspect, while still giving you a slight discount on colossus. Not to mention cutting the inspectors for non-creature artifacts makes crewing your vehicles next to impossible. Remember, you don't have to just jam the inspector on turn 3 every time when you suspect the opponent might remove it, and you can potentially make better use of playing it on a later turn when you can immediately get value out of casting some artifacts for a cheaper cost. Sometimes it has a slight combo-y aspect though, where you do just jam it turn 3 and say "remove this or lose" because the upside of getting to untap with it on turn 4 could be the difference between playing 3 colossus for free (at which point the game is probably over) or just casting a hedron archive and passing the turn, for a rough example.
In short, I feel that the inspector has more than earned his slot in the deck.
Its called ramp. [...] Its called getting around sorcery speed removal and chump blockers.
We know what the purpose of those cards are, you don't have to educate us. I'm personally not convinced that playing 12 Manalith variants is what this deck wants. I think your deck is intriguing, but it looks to me like there are at least 10 do-nothing cards in the deck.
But sure, if you want to reduce Colossus costs by 1, instead of 4. Go ahead. Run a 3/2 that gets hit by every removal in the format.
This isn't about reducing the colossus by 4 vs 1. It's about the deck having cohesiveness beyond simply bringing out the colossus, since you can't expect to have colossus in your hand at all times. And yeah, the Inspector is fragile, but if your opponent blanks on removal turn 3, you can have an insanely explosive next turn. Forcing your opponent to remove it can be a good play in itself. At the very least, it's still a one-for-one trade. Dying to removal is only a valid argument if the resources required to create it are significantly higher than those required to destroy it.
Which is precisely why this deck shouldn't bother with so many vehicles in the first place. This isn't a vehicle deck.
You're right that this isn't a vehicle deck. It's a synergy deck, and the fact that our best mana rock happens to be a vehicle means that we need to value crewmembers slightly higher. Foundry Inspector is already an explosive card, and this additional synergy makes it even better. And Cultivator's Caravan is generally regarded as one of the best cards in the deck.
Look. I could go quote by quote and point out why you are doing it wrong. [...] But hey. If you don't like it no one is going to make you. Just pointing out how ridiculous your arguments are.
I'm not sure why you're starting at the assumption that you're right, no one understands you, and your deck is better. You know that the deck in the OP placed fairly highly in a tournament, and variants on it were seen in the pro tour, right? It's not like this deck is untested. Again, I think your deck is interesting, but I'd gladly have my deck more spread out and doing several things other than summoning the colossus. A 10/10 is good, but it certainly doesn't win the game. I'm a firm believer that the colossus doesn't carry the team, he's just a good team player.
Can you tell us how Magnifying Glass and Cryptolith Fragment have worked out for you? Do you often flood on mana rocks? How do you deal with exile effects?
Trolling is not allowed according to MTGS rules. -hoser2
That said, this is little more than passive aggressive insult
I apologize if I came off as passive-aggressive, and I probably should have said it seems to me that you're starting from such an assumption. But I don't think I'm going to respond to the rest of this, since I find your entire post dripping with arrogance and vitriol. We're not going to improve this deck with that kind of attitude.
I'd be totally willing to discuss your deck with you, without calling each other ignorant (which wasn't even my intent), but when your first response to criticism is, "It's called ramp," and then you go on to insinuate that others are foolish for their card choices, I don't see that as being conducive to such a discussion. And I recognize that you've tested your deck, it just seems like you don't recognize that others have tested theirs, too. Flaming is not allowed according to MTGS rules. -hoser2
To somewhat corroborate Ninja's assessment of Foundry Inspector, it does feel awfully bad (especially when it happens nearly every time) to drop an Inspector on turn 3 only to have it eat removal EOT. Seems like a Time Walk in your opponent's favor. Would much rather drop a non-creature artifact that reduces the cost of Colossus by more than 1 while also carrying other valuable implications. Just my .02.
Here are the two versions. Funny how the one running Smuggler's Copter (the best card in standard, right?) had a worse record.
4 Foundry Inspector
4 Metalwork Colossus
2 Scrapheap Scrounger
2 Elder Deep-Fiend
4 Glint-Nest Crane
Lands (23)
7 Island
4 Aether Hub
4 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Spawning Bed
3 Spirebluff Canal
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
2 Inventors' Fair
4 Cultivator's Caravan
2 Hedron Archive
1 Key to the City
3 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
4 Prophetic Prism
4 Spatial Contortion
3 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1 Lashweed Lurker
2 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Aether Meltdown
3 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Incendiary Sabotage
3 Negate
1 Confiscation Coup
The other version was pretty similar, it just had the following changes (the sideboard was fairly different, though). It basically just replaces the puzzleknot with the copter.
+2 Island
-1 Spawning Bed
+3 Sunken Hollow
-3 Spirebluff Canal
+1 Hedron Archive
-1 Key to the City
+3 Smuggler's Copter
-3 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
-1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
Where can we take this deck? Here are some ideas:
Smuggler's Copter is probably the worst card in Emma's version. Unlike the vehicle decks we have very little ways to crew it and really capitalize on the creature. It would mostly just sit there are be an artifact for Colossus to reduce it's cost. I'm definitely sold on Metalspinner's replacing it. Spatial contortion is probably not enough removal and I think if this deck wants to survival right now it's going to need more removal. I considered Grixis for Radiant Flames, but the problem with sweepers now is that they can't hit Vehicles, so any top decked knucklehead will immediately crew a 3/3 flyer and they are suddenly back in the race.
I personally feel that with multiple Santcum of Ugin and a full grip of Colossus (and the deck's paradigm to get him out as fast as possible) 2 Elder-Deep Fiends is too little. I would personally like 3. You can keep the chain going this way.
Perhaps the next step is to take a page from the Temurge book and turn the deck into a more grindy midrange deck with recurring threats and graveyard interaction. Maybe some green for Grapple to go full on Temurge with recurring your artifacts, Colossi, and Deep Fiends.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
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hoffmkr, have you read Emma's article regarding the construction and play style of the deck? Metalwork is more of an enabler for this deck rather than a clock. Yes, on a tapped out board with Deep Fiend and one cleared out it represents a 2 turn clock, but if they have all kinds of stuff to chump it or you are unfavorable board presence Colossus is best crewing Skysoverign or emerging Deep Fiend for full value. Once you really grind them out, then you can start bashing. I think one version ran a Key to the City in the main and, IIRC, one in the side for card selection and for evasion for not only Colossus but our end game like Deep Fiend.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
4 Glint-Nest Crane
4 Foundry Inspector
1 Matter Reshaper
2 Elder Deep-Fiend
4 Metalwork Colossus
Spells 22
3 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
4 Prophetic Prism
4 Spatial Contortion
4 Cultivator's Caravan
2 Hedron Archive
2 Panharmonicon
3 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
4 Aether Hub
2 Inventors' Fair
7 Island
4 Sanctum of Ugin
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Spawning Bed
3 Spirebluff Canal
3 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Harnessed Lightning
3 Negate
3 Incendiary Sabotage
1 Panharmonicon
2 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Lashweed Lurker
1) I have ZERO idea how to sideboard
2) Br Aggro seem impossible (though these guys are 5-0 mtgo events so yeah Br can't be as bad as it look on paper)
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4 Glint-Nest Crane
3 Filigree Familiar
2 Elder Deep-Fiend
4 Metalwork Colossus
Spells (23)
4 Galvanic Bombardment
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
4 Prophetic Prism
4 Cultivator's Caravan
2 Hedron Archive
3 Fumigate
3 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
4 Aether Hub
4 Inspiring Vantage
2 Inventors' Fair
6 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Spawning Bed
3 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Fragmentize
2 Blessed Alliance
3 Negate
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Fumigate
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Well that's why we're playing 4, plus ways to find them, right? Also, Cultivator's Caravan is a legit win con. You just need stuff to crew it.
I just came across this interesting list, a temur-ish energy build. I really like the inclusion of Deadlock Trap. Here's my take on it:
4 Glint-Nest Crane
2 Elder Deep-Fiend
4 Metalwork Colossus
4 Foundry Inspector
Spells
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Prophetic Prism
2 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
4 Cultivator's Caravan
3 Deadlock Trap
3 Hedron Archive
2 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1 Key to the City
4 Aether Hub
4 Spirebluff Canal
6 Island
1 Mountain
2 Spawning Bed
1 Mirrorpool
2 Inventors' Fair
4 Sanctum of Ugin
3 Incendiary Sabotage
2 Aether Meltdown
2 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Negate
1 Confiscation Coup
1 Deadlock Trap
Also, does Tamiyo's Journal have any place in this deck? I think one copy may be worth testing.
Yeah... that maybe true for the midrange list - but for Detth's control variant the only wincon is Colossus since you have nothing else which can really attack or crew the vehicles.
- - -
Deadlock Trap is interesting, I like how its relevant no matter the MU.
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Was it this list I posted a few posts above? It looks like that was attempt to reconstruct his list. I personally thought that version was interesting, but a bit silly with its seemingly superfluous Sylvan Scryings and its lack of vehicle crew. I couldn't find the actual list, but I did find a blurb about it saying how important Sylvan Scrying was. I guess if it was playing Hanweir Battlements, Sylvan Scrying starts to look a little better, but still, I'm surprised.
Oliver Polak-Rottman's Temur Colossus list is def. ALL-IN, I can't say I'm comfortable with that approach (though ramping is fun).
I personally prefer Leger, Philippe's UWr list.
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1. Haunted Cloak. Key to the City is probably better, but the ability to play a colossus and immediately attack, with trample, seems like something worth looking into. Also can help Skysovereign deal 6 damage.
2. Manlands. Not having vehicle crew is really annoying, so turning your lands into pilots seems good. We generally want to avoid ETB tapped lands, but 2 manlands probably wouldn't hurt. Only Lumbering Falls and Wandering Fumarole can crew caravans/skysoveriegn, but most decks seem to support one of those combinations.
3 Spirebluff Canal
4 Aether Hub
2 Inventor's Fair
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
2 Spawning Bed
4 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Glint-Nest Crane
4 Foundry Inspector
2 Elder Deep-Fiend
4 Metalwork Colossus
4 Prophetic Prism
3 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
1 Key to the City
4 Cultivator's Caravan
3 Hedron Archive
1 Panharmonicon
3 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
3 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Negate
2 Harnessed Lightning
3 Incendiary Sabotage
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Lashweed Lurker
Maybe something like this:
4 Metalwork Colossus
2 Elder Deep Fiend
2 World Breaker
3 Foundry Inspector
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Glint-nest Crane
4 Hedron Archive
4 Cultivator's Caravan
4 Prophetic Prism
4 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
3 Kozilek's Return
2 Skysovereign Consul Flagship
24 land
Also, I notice a lot of lists are using foundry inspector. While it is a great card, a regular 3 drop artifact like Cryptolith Fragment or Magnifying glass reduces the cost of a colossus much more than the inspector does, and isn't as fragile in the aggro matches. Colossus only has its cost reduced by non-creature artifacts. So its a 4v1 reduction (because those 3 drops produce a mana as well). Let alone mass creature removal is staple right now. Kozilek's Return is great, and will kill your inspector... slowing you down while you try and slow the aggro down.
Also worth noting, most aggro decks would burn down the foundry inspector just because it would slow you down. Makes it rather counter productive.
In short, I feel that the inspector has more than earned his slot in the deck.
Trolling is not allowed according to MTGS rules. -hoser2
This isn't about reducing the colossus by 4 vs 1. It's about the deck having cohesiveness beyond simply bringing out the colossus, since you can't expect to have colossus in your hand at all times. And yeah, the Inspector is fragile, but if your opponent blanks on removal turn 3, you can have an insanely explosive next turn. Forcing your opponent to remove it can be a good play in itself. At the very least, it's still a one-for-one trade. Dying to removal is only a valid argument if the resources required to create it are significantly higher than those required to destroy it.
You're right that this isn't a vehicle deck. It's a synergy deck, and the fact that our best mana rock happens to be a vehicle means that we need to value crewmembers slightly higher. Foundry Inspector is already an explosive card, and this additional synergy makes it even better. And Cultivator's Caravan is generally regarded as one of the best cards in the deck.
I'm not sure why you're starting at the assumption that you're right, no one understands you, and your deck is better. You know that the deck in the OP placed fairly highly in a tournament, and variants on it were seen in the pro tour, right? It's not like this deck is untested. Again, I think your deck is interesting, but I'd gladly have my deck more spread out and doing several things other than summoning the colossus. A 10/10 is good, but it certainly doesn't win the game. I'm a firm believer that the colossus doesn't carry the team, he's just a good team player.
Can you tell us how Magnifying Glass and Cryptolith Fragment have worked out for you? Do you often flood on mana rocks? How do you deal with exile effects?
Trolling is not allowed according to MTGS rules. -hoser2
Flaming is not allowed according to MTGS rules. -hoser2
2 Island
2 Forest
4 Aether Hub
4 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Inventors' Fair
2 Spawning Bed
2 Botanical Sanctum
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Hanweir Battlements
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
Spells (6)
3 Sylvan Scrying
3 Spatial Contortion
4 Metalwork Colossus
4 Foundry Inspector
4 Glint-Nest Crane
1 Elder Deep-Fiend
Artifacts (19)
4 Prophetic Prism
4 Cultivator's Caravan
3 Hedron Archive
3 Deadlock Trap
2 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
2 Glassblower's Puzzleknot
1 Key to the City
3 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Negate
2 Harnessed Lightning
3 Radiant Flames
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Lashweed Lurker
Sideboard and mana is a mess
Will comment again at a later time
Please go ahead and critque!
I apologize if I came off as passive-aggressive, and I probably should have said it seems to me that you're starting from such an assumption. But I don't think I'm going to respond to the rest of this, since I find your entire post dripping with arrogance and vitriol. We're not going to improve this deck with that kind of attitude.
I'd be totally willing to discuss your deck with you, without calling each other ignorant (which wasn't even my intent), but when your first response to criticism is, "It's called ramp," and then you go on to insinuate that others are foolish for their card choices, I don't see that as being conducive to such a discussion. And I recognize that you've tested your deck, it just seems like you don't recognize that others have tested theirs, too.
Flaming is not allowed according to MTGS rules. -hoser2