G/B tends to go heavy on incremental value cards like Trackers, Ob's and Nissa's. One thing I want to keep are my draw spells but cutting back on card filtering/selection isn't so bad when we interact with them favorably. I got some time to test against a very fringe deck, U/W Flash which is now just Spirit tribal. It was ROUGH, it's not a deck that was on my radar but I didn't feel favored at all. With my clunky removal (geared to beat big dumb creatures).
There;s more work to be done, with Saheeli combo beginning to run more walkers, I can see To the Slaughter being good against them, along with the 3-4 Ruinous Path.
I should mention that my version of control is geared to beat:
G/B Aggro
G/B Delirium
Saheeli Twin
Mardu Vehicles is still a thing but the removal lines up fine. Not worred about that match up.
Decks that gives my version fits:
U/W Flash
G/R Energy (Thinking of adding Slaughters MD)
Colossus
Maybe Esper is the way to go, 4 Transgress the mind may be great, I'm not sure. I know I'll be running U/B This weekend though.
@racerxen, I've found that having early interaction against GB decks is pretty much all you need. Trying to make sure that you have enough interaction in the deck is really the main issue. For instance, Jim Davis' list goes supremely heavy on counter magic. I get it. If he's going to be beat, it won't be by the top 3 decks after last weekend. It just feels so awkward against so many other decks.
As far as decks that give UB fits, I'm pretty sure GR Energy would cease being an issue if you added white to your deck. Blessed Alliance is a rock star in that match as well as Anguished Unmaking in most matches. Anguished Unmaking sometimes feels like an "easy button." I've run into some crazy stuff at my LGS. It just makes me wonder what we may see at the next large Standard event. I would stick with Dimir though since that's what you have tested. It's a bit late in the day to be changing your entire game plan.
Came in to say this. Blessed Alliance is an all-star against GR Energy. At one league I play at, I had to play two of them every week. I upped the Fumigate to 3 after SB, and Alliance to 4 after SB, and my win rate went from about 50% to about 90%.
I am very tempted to take out my Anticipates, or go to maybe one, but in Esper, the color fixing may be too important...I will find out the hard way tonight.
I cut the number of Anticipate I play down to three. I could honestly cut it down to two, but it's more important as a mana-fixer than anything else. Once that part of your early game is fixed, it's pretty much just a tool to dig for things you're looking for. Otherwise, I don't bother casting them. I'm too afraid of what my mana situation would be like without any of them though
Above is my deck as it stands right now. The question about whether or not to include Anticipate is an interesting one, and one that I'm not sure the proper answer to. As such, I want to give the deck a shot without Anticipate to see how it feels and runs. The issue is what to put in in their stead. Removing Anticipate would open 4 slots main board and my current thought is to fill them with 2 Disallow, 1 Void Shatter, and 1 Spell Shrivel. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated
Any of the following would be fine choices to fill in for Anticipate:
Anyone have a good sideboard tech vs the current meta(All the top 16 decks at both the Aether Revolt Opens last 2 weeks)
I will be running a mixture of Jim Davis(U/B Control) deck from both the last 2 opens.
Wow. Just wow. My list from earlier on the page went 5-0 last night at my store, beating BG Delirium/aggro, Abzan Hulks (basically BG Delirium but going big on Noxious and Verdurous Gearhulks, and splashing white) twice, the UB(w) Control mirror, and Temur Emerge. Confirm Suspicions was great, and Anticipate was so useful at fixing draws I don't think I want to take it out. Twice I won on mulligans, including going to 5 and keeping a hand with three land, Anticipate and Glimmer. Didn't get to face the Cat-combo deck, or any severe aggro decks, but the list is still great. The one card that I'm tempted to move to the sideboard is the Transgress the Mind. I usually boarded them out, as the games that I cast them early meant I fell behind. I think I'd much rather put the Negate and Push/Path in the main, and run 2-3 Transgress in the side for the combo matches. I could even see them being changed to a couple of Lost Legacy, and maybe squeezing a Fathom Feeder in...
For everyone who's running Metallurgic Summonings, I have a couple questions. Do you always windmill slam as soon as you have it or do you wait for an opening/the ability to cast it with backup? Do you ever sideboard it out? I haven't gotten a ton of testing in, but I'm under 50% against R/G pummeler aggro and W/B servos with Marionette Master (only two decks I currently have available to test against).
I'm struggling with sideboarding too, as I'm never sure if I should take out win-cons or card draw for more removal against aggro.
I do have two changes that I haven't gotten around to yet, swapping Y's expertise to Murder and changing an anticipate to a Confirm Suspicions, but even so I'm not sure that it's going to be a huge swing in improvement. Am I just poorly positioned against those two decks and when I face G/B counters and Saheeli Cat I'll do better, or do I need to make some extensive changes to my deck? I'm honestly tempted to switch back to Jeskai control since I had a great deck that I took apart to build this one...
For everyone who's running Metallurgic Summonings, I have a couple questions. Do you always windmill slam as soon as you have it or do you wait for an opening/the ability to cast it with backup? Do you ever sideboard it out? I haven't gotten a ton of testing in, but I'm under 50% against R/G pummeler aggro and W/B servos with Marionette Master (only two decks I currently have available to test against).
I'm struggling with sideboarding too, as I'm never sure if I should take out win-cons or card draw for more removal against aggro.
I do have two changes that I haven't gotten around to yet, swapping Y's expertise to Murder and changing an anticipate to a Confirm Suspicions, but even so I'm not sure that it's going to be a huge swing in improvement. Am I just poorly positioned against those two decks and when I face G/B counters and Saheeli Cat I'll do better, or do I need to make some extensive changes to my deck? I'm honestly tempted to switch back to Jeskai control since I had a great deck that I took apart to build this one...
Honestly, it varies, depending on the matchup. Control, BG, yeah, I tend to slam it as soon as I can (unless I feel they are holding something back), because I need it to take over the game by controlling their threats with it. Other match-ups, it sits in my hand until I have 8 or even 10 mana available, allowing me to drop it and still have counter magic available for other threats. You really have to play this deck with the mentality of not wanting to win with win-cons. Get a chance to drop a Summonings, and you will win by doing nothing other than controlling the board. So, to answer your second question regarding changes, IMO I think you do need to change around your sideboard. Essence Extraction is a little overrated now, and Fatal Push is better. Jace, Kalitas and Liliana are not what a Summonings deck wants - Kalitas turns on removal, and would you much rather tap out for a walker or remain on the reactive plan with more removal and counters? Note that, in his CFB article, Fortanely says that this deck is weak to Bristling Hydra, so don't feel bad about a <50% record with that!
If you look at another successful reactive UB deck (here, for reference) look at the amount of proactive vs reactive threats. Ashiok, and to some extent Liliana, was dropped ASAP to take over the game by themselves unless answered. Ugin was a board wipe, almost always played and then immediately minused to stabilise. Perilous Vault was played T9 several games, rather than T4 and wait. Everything else in the deck is entirely reactive. I think that UB isn't quite there yet because people are still trying to jam win-cons in, rather than letting the control deck do its thing...
@ciago92, based on your list, I think you need to make some major changes. Your mana base is a hot mess, especially for a 2-color deck. Evolving Wilds is just straight up worse than Submerged Boneyard. Not to mention, you don't have a real use for energy so Aether Hub is kinda worthless. I know you can kinda power it via Glimmer of Genius but that's a fool's errand imo for a deck that needs a better mana base for the early game.
Essence Extraction is bad with only marginal room for some value. It costs too much without getting a whole lot in return. I would change it to a Murder. Also, I would add a fourth Grasp of Darkness. I believe it's the second best removal in your colors. You also only have one Ruinous Path in the main deck. That's seems like a mistake when you will have to deal with Saheeli Rai and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. If decks playing either of those cards aren't popular in your area, then pardon my poor evaluation but I still find Ruinous Path generally more useful.
As far as the sweepers are concerened, if you want to keep Yahenni's Expertise, that's fine, but they are better off coming from the sideboard. They do have use against tokens, energy aggro decks and some other random stuff.
I'm not a fan of Horribly Awry and would suggest changing them out for appropriate removal instead. If you want to keep them though, I would probably remove a corresponding number of Anticipate or Negate.
I would also cut the number of Metallurgic Summonings as well. I used to play more when I ran Dimir, but now I only run one out of the sideboard in my Esper deck. One is more than enough for me so I can imagine three being overkill.
Other than that, Jon, is right. You're not trying to actively win the game so to speak. That's a game plan better suited for Jeskai control. Dimir and Esper wear you out and beat you with the leftovers.
Based on your list, I think you need to make some.major changes.
I hope you're talking about ciago's list, and not mine... Let me add a few more thoughts to your breakdown.
Your mana base is a hot mess, especially for a 2-color deck. Evolving Wilds is just straight up worse than Submerged Vineyard. Not to mention, you don't have a real for energy so Aether Hub is kinda worthless. I know you can kinda power or via Glimmer but that's a fool's errand imo for a deck that needs a better mana base for the early game.
4 Aether Hub is certainly too much. I run two in my list, but that is because I get extra benefit from them with Dynavolt Tower in the side. But yes, I agree with Chaos - if you have no need for the energy, drop them. I had Evolving Wilds in my deck last night, and rarely did I actually want to crack them. Once you've scried a land or three to the bottom with Anticipate and Glimmer, shuffling them back in through Evolving Wilds is, in essence, putting lands back in to your deck and slowing you down. I'm changing mine for Boneyards.
Essence Extraction is bad with only marginal room for some value. It costs too much without getting a while lot on return. I would change it to a Murder. Also, I would add a fourth Grasp of Darkness. I believe it's the second best removal in your colors.
With the KLD meta (some aggro, UW Flash), Essence Extraction was a better card. Now, we have the need to take out 4+ power creatures. Murder would be a good choice (I didn't catch that you didn't have any!)...
You also only have one Ruinous Path in the main deck. That's seems like a mistake when you will have to deal with Saheeli and Gideon. If decks playing either of those cards aren't popular in your area, then pardon my poor evaluation but I still find Path generally more useful.
I second this strongly. Paths are a necessary evil right now. At some point, a walker will slip under a counter, and then you need to be able to get rid of it. In the cases of no walkers, it's still unconditional removal, and in a pinch can function as a way to pressure the opponent with awaken.
As far as the sweepers are concerened, if you want to keep Yahenni's Expertise, that's fine, but they are better off coming from the sideboard.
I would agree. Expertise is purely situational, and the cascade effect is just a bonus. Two in the side should be sufficient.
I'm not a fan of Horribly Awry and would suggest changing them out for appropriate removal instead. Of you want to keep them though, I would probably remove a corresponding number of Anticipate or Negate.
With five 3-mana hard counters, I think you can do away with the Awrys entirely, but that's just my opinion.
I would also cut the number of Metallurgic Summonings as well. I used to play more when I ran Dimir, but now I only run one out of the sideboard in my Esper deck. One is more than enough for so I came imagine three being overkill.
Questionable, I think. Three is a nice number as it's the way you want to close out games. You get them come up fairly regularly, and in only two games last night did I find myself with two at once that I couldn't scry away. Two may be correct though. Not sure yet!
Thank you both for the feedback! My local meta is surprisingly aggro (2 R/G energy, the W/B servos, one or two B/G counters, one W/G human tribal aggro) but I do want to tune this for the GP next weekend, so I think I need to disregard the local meta for what's more common overall. Based on that, I reworked the land base entirely (someone had said evolving wilds for revolt on fatal push, but that doesn't really seem worth it so far) as well as most of the removal/counter suite and some of the sideboard. I definitely could use more help with the sideboard, I've got a slot open still after most of the changes. Still tempted by Sphinx of Magosi for card draw on a stick, but I know it turns on removal so I keep telling myself no. Any thoughts on what I'm still missing? Definitely open to mainboard tweaks too, maybe drop a negate or two for better alternatives. Thanks again for all the help!
Long wall of text incoming, so let me stick the TL;DR first - drop a Fen, run 7 islands and 8 swamps. Drop a Murder for a Grasp in the main, and maybe run 3 Spell Shrivel instead of Void Shatter. In the side, drop a Sphinx and run a pair of Dispel (or Essence Extraction for your local meta) and/or something like Confirm Suspicions.
Here's my reasoning.
Your mana base looks a lot better. I would suggest maybe switching the number of Islands vs Swamps though. Right now, you have 18 blue sources and 16 black. If you want to be casting Grasp reliably on T2 then you would need 20 sources. However, with Disallow and Void Shatter needing double blue on T3, that requires 19 blue. Right now, there is no way that the mana base can be supported that well. Two Blighted Fen hurt you as well.
Right now, I run one Fen, two Aether Hub and Boneyards, 4 of each dual land, 6 Islands and 7 Swamps. That gives me 18 blue and 19 black sources, which is far more reasonable. While not necessarily 90% reliable to fire a T2 Grasp and a T3 Disallow, it's probably close to 85%. As we discussed earlier, you have no need for the energy from Aether Hub, so I'd probably just add one more Island and one more Swamp. That would give you 17 blue and 18 black.
One other option is to move away from the heavy 1UU requirement. If you look at the original Fortanely list, he ran Spell Shrivel over Void Shatter. In the early game, it has the same effect, and is far easier to cast on T3, only needing 12 blue sources to be able to cast 90% of the time on T3. So, you have the option of changing out to a 2/3 split of Disallow and Spell Shrivel (either way round) and making your mana a bit easier to hit.
In the main itself, I'd run 3 Murder and 4 Grasp, especially if you're facing a lot of aggro. Killing something T2 vs T3 could be important.
As for the side, what are you most worried about facing? I think you're right - Magosi is tempting, but is a no go. You could take a page out of Jim Davis' book and run a Blighted Cataract in the side for card draw and guaranteed land drops, allowing you to take out Anticipate in slower games for more answers and run 27 land. Either that or you could put another counter spell in there, like Confirm Suspicions. Or, this is the place that Essence Extraction could go, especially in your meta of aggro-heavy. It could be an idea to just run one Sphinx, and two Essence Extraction. At the GP, you're likely to face a lot of Saheeli decks, and there is some reactiveness to that deck in your list, but your last slot could also be a Lost Legacy, which I've seen some decks running... You should also consider Dispel for the Saheeli matches, as they tend to board in counter magic to protect their combo in game 2, and you can get in to some counter wars with them.
One other suggestion that I've found useful is to make a sideboard guide in advance. Think of the likely matches you'll face (either locally or at the GP), and then write down what you would board out vs in (I actually did this in a spreadsheet to make it easier viewing). Don't try and force cards in from your board, just look at what you would do. Once you've done that, see if there's cards that you are boarding in for every matchup, or for none at all. For those that come in every game, could it be better to mainboard them? For those that you don't bring in at all, are they really needed in the sideboard? Once you have a plan, write it down (or print it out to make it clearer), and take it with you to matches. It'll save you time during sideboarding because you know what to swap. This is a control deck, so you need to be able to shave time wherever you can (another reason that Evolving Wilds are bad!).
As an example, here's mine from the list further up the page...
Sorry about the formatting - this is just a straight C&P from my Word document, which I scaled down to about the size of a magic card, cut it out, put it in a sleeve and take to tournaments with me... UW Flash/GW Tokens
-3 Summonings +3 Tower, +1 Path
-2 Transgress +1 Push (draw), +1 Negate (play)
(-1 Susp, -1 Hulk +2 Expertise vs Tokens)
Long wall of text incoming, so let me stick the TL;DR first - drop a Fen, run 7 islands and 8 swamps. Drop a Murder for a Grasp in the main, and maybe run 3 Spell Shrivel instead of Void Shatter. In the side, drop a Sphinx and run a pair of Dispel (or Essence Extraction for your local meta) and/or something like Confirm Suspicions.
Here's my reasoning.
Your mana base looks a lot better. I would suggest maybe switching the number of Islands vs Swamps though. Right now, you have 18 blue sources and 16 black. If you want to be casting Grasp reliably on T2 then you would need 20 sources. However, with Disallow and Void Shatter needing double blue on T3, that requires 19 blue. Right now, there is no way that the mana base can be supported that well. Two Blighted Fen hurt you as well.
Right now, I run one Fen, two Aether Hub and Boneyards, 4 of each dual land, 6 Islands and 7 Swamps. That gives me 18 blue and 19 black sources, which is far more reasonable. While not necessarily 90% reliable to fire a T2 Grasp and a T3 Disallow, it's probably close to 85%. As we discussed earlier, you have no need for the energy from Aether Hub, so I'd probably just add one more Island and one more Swamp. That would give you 17 blue and 18 black.
One other option is to move away from the heavy 1UU requirement. If you look at the original Fortanely list, he ran Spell Shrivel over Void Shatter. In the early game, it has the same effect, and is far easier to cast on T3, only needing 12 blue sources to be able to cast 90% of the time on T3. So, you have the option of changing out to a 2/3 split of Disallow and Spell Shrivel (either way round) and making your mana a bit easier to hit.
In the main itself, I'd run 3 Murder and 4 Grasp, especially if you're facing a lot of aggro. Killing something T2 vs T3 could be important.
As for the side, what are you most worried about facing? I think you're right - Magosi is tempting, but is a no go. You could take a page out of Jim Davis' book and run a Blighted Cataract in the side for card draw and guaranteed land drops, allowing you to take out Anticipate in slower games for more answers and run 27 land. Either that or you could put another counter spell in there, like Confirm Suspicions. Or, this is the place that Essence Extraction could go, especially in your meta of aggro-heavy. It could be an idea to just run one Sphinx, and two Essence Extraction. At the GP, you're likely to face a lot of Saheeli decks, and there is some reactiveness to that deck in your list, but your last slot could also be a Lost Legacy, which I've seen some decks running... You should also consider Dispel for the Saheeli matches, as they tend to board in counter magic to protect their combo in game 2, and you can get in to some counter wars with them.
One other suggestion that I've found useful is to make a sideboard guide in advance. Think of the likely matches you'll face (either locally or at the GP), and then write down what you would board out vs in (I actually did this in a spreadsheet to make it easier viewing). Don't try and force cards in from your board, just look at what you would do. Once you've done that, see if there's cards that you are boarding in for every matchup, or for none at all. For those that come in every game, could it be better to mainboard them? For those that you don't bring in at all, are they really needed in the sideboard? Once you have a plan, write it down (or print it out to make it clearer), and take it with you to matches. It'll save you time during sideboarding because you know what to swap. This is a control deck, so you need to be able to shave time wherever you can (another reason that Evolving Wilds are bad!).
As an example, here's mine from the list further up the page...
Sorry about the formatting - this is just a straight C&P from my Word document, which I scaled down to about the size of a magic card, cut it out, put it in a sleeve and take to tournaments with me... UW Flash/GW Tokens
-3 Summonings +3 Tower, +1 Path
-2 Transgress +1 Push (draw), +1 Negate (play)
(-1 Susp, -1 Hulk +2 Expertise vs Tokens)
I'm at work so I can't respond in depth to this yet, but a quick summary of my thoughts from quickly reading (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong anywhere):
Land:
1 Blighted Fen -> 1 Submerged Boneyard
1 Island -> 1 Swamp
Main board:
1 Negate -> 1 Confirm Suspicions
Side board:
1 Sphinx -> 2 Dispel
1 Baral -> 1 Lost Legacy (maybe 2 for 2?)
Swaps:
1 mainboard murder <-> 1 sideboard grasp
I'm not convinced by spell shrivel, specifically because this deck (when put together properly, at least, maybe not mine yet) is designed to go for the very long game, but spell shrivel is more or less useless after turn 6 or so, right? I guess it still gets us a 3/3, but I'd rather have a hard counter personally. I could see splitting them, yeah, I'm just not 100% convinced. Has anyone run the split to any success versus running one specifically?
I will definitely have to work on the sideboard guide. What's a good way to anticipate matches? Like I said, my local meta is skewed so I'm not sure how to evaluate the GP meta. Should I just prepare based off the numbers from the PT this weekend? Is there a good way to adjust those numbers based off the results?
Finally, what should I be watching/watching for during the pro tour this weekend? Is there any benefit to finding the deck closest to mine and watching how they sideboard or anything? How they approach different decks, when they play summonings versus hold it for more control?
Thanks yet again for all the help, this is my first step into more serious Magic so I'm trying to learn as much as possible as quickly as I can.
edit: guess I ended up responding in depth anyways lol
I am planning to test a UB ctronol deck like your lists for a GPT on sunday. I'm not used to play control deck but I find this one with good answers against the current meta.
I have still few doubts on my list, I don't know if I prefer to main deck a Jace, unraveler of secrets + Ob Nixilis, reignited over a couple Kalitas (in the SB for now). I don't know decks I will face, maybe more RB, RW aggro and GR aggro/delirium. Any adice?
Besides, how are your testings with Metallurgic summonings? I am quite confused to tap out on T5 for it. Do you? Or wait T7 for a back up negate/grasp?
Thx
In my experience, the sooner you get Summonings on board the better. Though you may need to be more cautious against any deck with U. I like Ob Nix more than Jace. His ultimate is gaming winning. Glimmer damage adds up fast.
I'm at work so I can't respond in depth to this yet, but a quick summary of my thoughts from quickly reading (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong anywhere):
Land:
1 Blighted Fen -> 1 Submerged Boneyard
1 Island -> 1 Swamp
Main board:
1 Negate -> 1 Confirm Suspicions
Side board:
1 Sphinx -> 2 Dispel
1 Baral -> 1 Lost Legacy (maybe 2 for 2?)
Swaps:
1 mainboard murder <-> 1 sideboard grasp
I would say
Blighted Fen > Swamp - you don't want too many CIPT lands, and you need the BB sooner than you need the UU.
Island > Swamp
1 Baral > 1 Lost Legacy (side)
1 Baral > 1 Negate (side) - I don't think one Baral will be too helpful...
MB changes look good!
As for anticipating games, yeah, I just look at the list of top decks from the PT/previous GPs, as most people will just play those. You'll get some "out there" decks, but hopefully you'll be diverse enough to overcome them.
SO I couldn't play FNM tonight..but played on MTGO. Could only play one since I am also testing esper control in modern for the GP in two weeks.
I am playing pretty much the same MD as in my last posts. I completely remove Kalitas from the deck and haven't looked back. Anyway, I went 4-1 in a competitive league. My loss was vs. Saheeli Jeskai. I won game 1, but in games 2 and 3 I got stuck on 5 lands for a while and he just out drew me. I ended up loosing to dynavolt tower pings (obviously I did not draw a single anguished unmaking =(). I won vs another Jeskai Saheeli, 1 Jeskai control, and 2 BG decks.
The BG matchups seem very favored for us, pre and post SB. Just oen for one until they run out of gas and you refill your hand. Pretty straightforward I think.
On the other hand, Saheeli matchups can be weird, but it seems that in the long game we should be favored. Just be careful with going into a counter war over a Gearhulk in your EOT just to loose to the combo next turn (happened to me once =() The Trangress the Mind and the Lost legacy are very important here from the SB. I want to test Dynavolt tower for this matchup & control mirrors. It can disrupt the combo at 'instant speed', and serves as a long term wincon. Has anyone tested it?
For Metallurgic Summonings decks, Part the Waterveil: win-more card or worth it? Empty board means it's a 6/6 haste and draw a card for free, more or less.
For Metallurgic Summonings decks, Part the Waterveil: win-more card or worth it? Empty board means it's a 6/6 haste and draw a card for free, more or less.
Win more. It's not worth trying to take the extra turn or awaken. If you're not winning on an empty board (or about to) with Summonings, you're not doing it right.
Just looked at the meta for the PT, and there are six UB Control decks shown, so hopefully we get some on coverage or at least deck lists... Constrictor and Copycat decks are the top two archetypes, making up half the field between them. Mardu Vehicles is another 22%, so it's nice to see that the new set and the bannings made for a diverse meta game... </sarcasm>.
I'm at work so I can't respond in depth to this yet, but a quick summary of my thoughts from quickly reading (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong anywhere):
Land:
1 Blighted Fen -> 1 Submerged Boneyard
1 Island -> 1 Swamp
Main board:
1 Negate -> 1 Confirm Suspicions
Side board:
1 Sphinx -> 2 Dispel
1 Baral -> 1 Lost Legacy (maybe 2 for 2?)
Swaps:
1 mainboard murder <-> 1 sideboard grasp
I would say
Blighted Fen > Swamp - you don't want too many CIPT lands, and you need the BB sooner than you need the UU.
Island > Swamp
1 Baral > 1 Lost Legacy (side)
1 Baral > 1 Negate (side) - I don't think one Baral will be too helpful...
MB changes look good!
As for anticipating games, yeah, I just look at the list of top decks from the PT/previous GPs, as most people will just play those. You'll get some "out there" decks, but hopefully you'll be diverse enough to overcome them.
Your notation is a bit confusing at it looks like "greater than" rather than an arrow when you shorthand without the dash.
Your post earlier won me over to prioritizing Grasp over Fatal Push, even in my Esper list, and to running some 1U counters like Shrivel over UU like Shatter. I like your thought process regarding mana costs and early game needs! I'm also testing three Fathom Feeder in the sideboard.
well, if it's Vehicles and G/B for the entire meta we have 1 good match up. I really miss the days of Esper Dragons The overall deck diversity is very bad.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
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I cut the number of Anticipate I play down to three. I could honestly cut it down to two, but it's more important as a mana-fixer than anything else. Once that part of your early game is fixed, it's pretty much just a tool to dig for things you're looking for. Otherwise, I don't bother casting them. I'm too afraid of what my mana situation would be like without any of them though
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I will be running a mixture of Jim Davis(U/B Control) deck from both the last 2 opens.
Going into a few PPTQ this weekend.
4x Anticipate
2x Disallow
1x Essence Extraction
2x Fatal Push
4x Glimmer of Genius
3x Grasp of Darkness
2x Horribly Awry
3x Negate
3x Void Shatter
3x Metallurgic Summonings
2x Blighted Fen
4x Choked Estuary
2x Evolving Wilds
6x Island
4x Sunken Hollow
4x Swamp
1x Ruinous Path
2x Yahenni's Expertise
4x Torrential Gearhulk
2x Essence Extraction
1x Fatal Push
1x Grasp of Darkness
1x Horribly Awry
2x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Ruinous Path
1x Yahenni's Expertise
I'm struggling with sideboarding too, as I'm never sure if I should take out win-cons or card draw for more removal against aggro.
I do have two changes that I haven't gotten around to yet, swapping Y's expertise to Murder and changing an anticipate to a Confirm Suspicions, but even so I'm not sure that it's going to be a huge swing in improvement. Am I just poorly positioned against those two decks and when I face G/B counters and Saheeli Cat I'll do better, or do I need to make some extensive changes to my deck? I'm honestly tempted to switch back to Jeskai control since I had a great deck that I took apart to build this one...
Honestly, it varies, depending on the matchup. Control, BG, yeah, I tend to slam it as soon as I can (unless I feel they are holding something back), because I need it to take over the game by controlling their threats with it. Other match-ups, it sits in my hand until I have 8 or even 10 mana available, allowing me to drop it and still have counter magic available for other threats. You really have to play this deck with the mentality of not wanting to win with win-cons. Get a chance to drop a Summonings, and you will win by doing nothing other than controlling the board. So, to answer your second question regarding changes, IMO I think you do need to change around your sideboard. Essence Extraction is a little overrated now, and Fatal Push is better. Jace, Kalitas and Liliana are not what a Summonings deck wants - Kalitas turns on removal, and would you much rather tap out for a walker or remain on the reactive plan with more removal and counters? Note that, in his CFB article, Fortanely says that this deck is weak to Bristling Hydra, so don't feel bad about a <50% record with that!
If you look at another successful reactive UB deck (here, for reference) look at the amount of proactive vs reactive threats. Ashiok, and to some extent Liliana, was dropped ASAP to take over the game by themselves unless answered. Ugin was a board wipe, almost always played and then immediately minused to stabilise. Perilous Vault was played T9 several games, rather than T4 and wait. Everything else in the deck is entirely reactive. I think that UB isn't quite there yet because people are still trying to jam win-cons in, rather than letting the control deck do its thing...
Essence Extraction is bad with only marginal room for some value. It costs too much without getting a whole lot in return. I would change it to a Murder. Also, I would add a fourth Grasp of Darkness. I believe it's the second best removal in your colors. You also only have one Ruinous Path in the main deck. That's seems like a mistake when you will have to deal with Saheeli Rai and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. If decks playing either of those cards aren't popular in your area, then pardon my poor evaluation but I still find Ruinous Path generally more useful.
As far as the sweepers are concerened, if you want to keep Yahenni's Expertise, that's fine, but they are better off coming from the sideboard. They do have use against tokens, energy aggro decks and some other random stuff.
I'm not a fan of Horribly Awry and would suggest changing them out for appropriate removal instead. If you want to keep them though, I would probably remove a corresponding number of Anticipate or Negate.
I would also cut the number of Metallurgic Summonings as well. I used to play more when I ran Dimir, but now I only run one out of the sideboard in my Esper deck. One is more than enough for me so I can imagine three being overkill.
Other than that, Jon, is right. You're not trying to actively win the game so to speak. That's a game plan better suited for Jeskai control. Dimir and Esper wear you out and beat you with the leftovers.
4 Aether Hub is certainly too much. I run two in my list, but that is because I get extra benefit from them with Dynavolt Tower in the side. But yes, I agree with Chaos - if you have no need for the energy, drop them. I had Evolving Wilds in my deck last night, and rarely did I actually want to crack them. Once you've scried a land or three to the bottom with Anticipate and Glimmer, shuffling them back in through Evolving Wilds is, in essence, putting lands back in to your deck and slowing you down. I'm changing mine for Boneyards.
With the KLD meta (some aggro, UW Flash), Essence Extraction was a better card. Now, we have the need to take out 4+ power creatures. Murder would be a good choice (I didn't catch that you didn't have any!)...
I second this strongly. Paths are a necessary evil right now. At some point, a walker will slip under a counter, and then you need to be able to get rid of it. In the cases of no walkers, it's still unconditional removal, and in a pinch can function as a way to pressure the opponent with awaken.
I would agree. Expertise is purely situational, and the cascade effect is just a bonus. Two in the side should be sufficient.
With five 3-mana hard counters, I think you can do away with the Awrys entirely, but that's just my opinion.
Questionable, I think. Three is a nice number as it's the way you want to close out games. You get them come up fairly regularly, and in only two games last night did I find myself with two at once that I couldn't scry away. Two may be correct though. Not sure yet!
Wait, what??
2x Disallow
2x Fatal Push
4x Glimmer of Genius
3x Grasp of Darkness
4x Murder
3x Negate
3x Void Shatter
2x Blighted Fen
4x Choked Estuary
8x Island
2x Submerged Boneyard
4x Sunken Hollow
6x Swamp
3x Ruinous Path
2x Baral, Chief of Compliance
2x Fatal Push
2x Fathom Feeder
1x Grasp of Darkness
1x Ruinous Path
2x Sphinx of the Final Word
2x To the Slaughter
2x Yahenni's Expertise
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Here's my reasoning.
Your mana base looks a lot better. I would suggest maybe switching the number of Islands vs Swamps though. Right now, you have 18 blue sources and 16 black. If you want to be casting Grasp reliably on T2 then you would need 20 sources. However, with Disallow and Void Shatter needing double blue on T3, that requires 19 blue. Right now, there is no way that the mana base can be supported that well. Two Blighted Fen hurt you as well.
Right now, I run one Fen, two Aether Hub and Boneyards, 4 of each dual land, 6 Islands and 7 Swamps. That gives me 18 blue and 19 black sources, which is far more reasonable. While not necessarily 90% reliable to fire a T2 Grasp and a T3 Disallow, it's probably close to 85%. As we discussed earlier, you have no need for the energy from Aether Hub, so I'd probably just add one more Island and one more Swamp. That would give you 17 blue and 18 black.
One other option is to move away from the heavy 1UU requirement. If you look at the original Fortanely list, he ran Spell Shrivel over Void Shatter. In the early game, it has the same effect, and is far easier to cast on T3, only needing 12 blue sources to be able to cast 90% of the time on T3. So, you have the option of changing out to a 2/3 split of Disallow and Spell Shrivel (either way round) and making your mana a bit easier to hit.
In the main itself, I'd run 3 Murder and 4 Grasp, especially if you're facing a lot of aggro. Killing something T2 vs T3 could be important.
As for the side, what are you most worried about facing? I think you're right - Magosi is tempting, but is a no go. You could take a page out of Jim Davis' book and run a Blighted Cataract in the side for card draw and guaranteed land drops, allowing you to take out Anticipate in slower games for more answers and run 27 land. Either that or you could put another counter spell in there, like Confirm Suspicions. Or, this is the place that Essence Extraction could go, especially in your meta of aggro-heavy. It could be an idea to just run one Sphinx, and two Essence Extraction. At the GP, you're likely to face a lot of Saheeli decks, and there is some reactiveness to that deck in your list, but your last slot could also be a Lost Legacy, which I've seen some decks running... You should also consider Dispel for the Saheeli matches, as they tend to board in counter magic to protect their combo in game 2, and you can get in to some counter wars with them.
One other suggestion that I've found useful is to make a sideboard guide in advance. Think of the likely matches you'll face (either locally or at the GP), and then write down what you would board out vs in (I actually did this in a spreadsheet to make it easier viewing). Don't try and force cards in from your board, just look at what you would do. Once you've done that, see if there's cards that you are boarding in for every matchup, or for none at all. For those that come in every game, could it be better to mainboard them? For those that you don't bring in at all, are they really needed in the sideboard? Once you have a plan, write it down (or print it out to make it clearer), and take it with you to matches. It'll save you time during sideboarding because you know what to swap. This is a control deck, so you need to be able to shave time wherever you can (another reason that Evolving Wilds are bad!).
As an example, here's mine from the list further up the page...
UW Flash/GW Tokens
-3 Summonings +3 Tower, +1 Path
-2 Transgress +1 Push (draw), +1 Negate (play)
(-1 Susp, -1 Hulk +2 Expertise vs Tokens)
GB Aggro (smaller creatures)
-2 Transgress +1 Push, +1 Path
GB Delirium (i.e. Hulks)
-2 Push +1 Path, +1 Transgress
-1 Murder, -1 Grasp +1 Negate
-1 Summ (draw) +1 Expertise (2 on draw)
Vehicle/aggro
-2 Transgress +3 Thief
-3 Summonings +3 Tower
-1 Suspicions +2 Expertise
-1 Gearhulk +1 Path
-3 Disallow +1 Push
(Negate/Dispel if burn)
Control
-2 Path (if Thing) -> +1 Push, +1 Transgress
-2 Push (if Walkers) -> +1 Path, +1 Transgress
-1 Murder, -2 Grasp +1 Negate, +2 Dispel
-1 Gearhulk +1 Sphinx
-1-2 Summ (on play) +1-2 Tower (on play)
Saheeli Twin
-2 Push +1 Negate
-3 Summonings +1 Path, +1 Transgress, +2 Dispel
I have been testing mostly modern this week so haven't been able to contribute much. However, just wanted to point out this deck
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/561402#paper
Seems good !
Unfortunately this is not my list, so I cannot say what were the matches. It is very similar to what we have been discussing, so that is encouraging.
The inclusion of the Baral is interesting, but I am not sure that the purpose of the Renegade map as it is not even a cantrip.
What is you mother tongue ? Mine is Spanish =)
Cheers
Renegade map activates Revolt for Fatal Push and fixes your mana.
I'm at work so I can't respond in depth to this yet, but a quick summary of my thoughts from quickly reading (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong anywhere):
Land:
1 Blighted Fen -> 1 Submerged Boneyard
1 Island -> 1 Swamp
Main board:
1 Negate -> 1 Confirm Suspicions
Side board:
1 Sphinx -> 2 Dispel
1 Baral -> 1 Lost Legacy (maybe 2 for 2?)
Swaps:
1 mainboard murder <-> 1 sideboard grasp
I'm not convinced by spell shrivel, specifically because this deck (when put together properly, at least, maybe not mine yet) is designed to go for the very long game, but spell shrivel is more or less useless after turn 6 or so, right? I guess it still gets us a 3/3, but I'd rather have a hard counter personally. I could see splitting them, yeah, I'm just not 100% convinced. Has anyone run the split to any success versus running one specifically?
I will definitely have to work on the sideboard guide. What's a good way to anticipate matches? Like I said, my local meta is skewed so I'm not sure how to evaluate the GP meta. Should I just prepare based off the numbers from the PT this weekend? Is there a good way to adjust those numbers based off the results?
Finally, what should I be watching/watching for during the pro tour this weekend? Is there any benefit to finding the deck closest to mine and watching how they sideboard or anything? How they approach different decks, when they play summonings versus hold it for more control?
Thanks yet again for all the help, this is my first step into more serious Magic so I'm trying to learn as much as possible as quickly as I can.
edit: guess I ended up responding in depth anyways lol
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Blighted Fen > Swamp - you don't want too many CIPT lands, and you need the BB sooner than you need the UU.
Island > Swamp
1 Baral > 1 Lost Legacy (side)
1 Baral > 1 Negate (side) - I don't think one Baral will be too helpful...
MB changes look good!
As for anticipating games, yeah, I just look at the list of top decks from the PT/previous GPs, as most people will just play those. You'll get some "out there" decks, but hopefully you'll be diverse enough to overcome them.
I am playing pretty much the same MD as in my last posts. I completely remove Kalitas from the deck and haven't looked back. Anyway, I went 4-1 in a competitive league. My loss was vs. Saheeli Jeskai. I won game 1, but in games 2 and 3 I got stuck on 5 lands for a while and he just out drew me. I ended up loosing to dynavolt tower pings (obviously I did not draw a single anguished unmaking =(). I won vs another Jeskai Saheeli, 1 Jeskai control, and 2 BG decks.
The BG matchups seem very favored for us, pre and post SB. Just oen for one until they run out of gas and you refill your hand. Pretty straightforward I think.
On the other hand, Saheeli matchups can be weird, but it seems that in the long game we should be favored. Just be careful with going into a counter war over a Gearhulk in your EOT just to loose to the combo next turn (happened to me once =() The Trangress the Mind and the Lost legacy are very important here from the SB. I want to test Dynavolt tower for this matchup & control mirrors. It can disrupt the combo at 'instant speed', and serves as a long term wincon. Has anyone tested it?
Good luck to you all during the weekend !
Just looked at the meta for the PT, and there are six UB Control decks shown, so hopefully we get some on coverage or at least deck lists... Constrictor and Copycat decks are the top two archetypes, making up half the field between them. Mardu Vehicles is another 22%, so it's nice to see that the new set and the bannings made for a diverse meta game... </sarcasm>.
Your post earlier won me over to prioritizing Grasp over Fatal Push, even in my Esper list, and to running some 1U counters like Shrivel over UU like Shatter. I like your thought process regarding mana costs and early game needs! I'm also testing three Fathom Feeder in the sideboard.
UB Control Day 1, 6 decks / Day 2, 3 decks
Esper Control Day 1, 5 decks / Day 2, 2 decks
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
They won't have lists until the tournament is over so people can't learn other peoples lists.