Man..so sad to hear that. It seems you had you dose of bad luck with the mana screws/floods...but that is no excuse =(
I have updated the list (last post) after testing online vs Saheeli and pals.
It seems that vs. BG the fatal pushes are VERY relevant no ? Perhaps a 4 of is good? I think we should also take a page from J.Davies and increase the number of murders. Basically, I think we can 1 for 1 BG until we drop a Gearhulk, it does not seem they have a lot of CA engines besides the Tracker and Flayer. What do you think ?
Overall, do you suggest any specific changes to the list? I am looking for the cards on MTGO and will start testing tonight also there.
You can say that again. Kinda didn't want to play R3/4 and had to get talked into the UW games after the event. I think a couple of my lines were wrong, and I defs did misplay R2 G2 though.
They are reasonably relevant. I think that is how we beat them. Post board Ob Nix and Nissa's to be expected imo. I would like a Suspicions because I think that card is nuts in control- with Hulk anyway (however I usually board it out vs control due to cmc). I would board the Sorins, which I see you've done. I really like the new list, but think Jace over Ob. However, this really depends on what you want to do with Ob (matchups). I also don't like no Negates mb, but have no idea what to cut for them (2).
It seems that vs. BG the fatal pushes are VERY relevant no ?
Somewhat relevant. Looking at the list that won the Columbus Open, without revolt Push takes out 12 targets. Perhaps another relevant spell, and taking another page from Jim's list is Horribly Awry. This spell stops 21 of their targets from even getting an ETB trigger. Or coming back from the grave if they decide to run Grapple with the Past
Revolutionary rebuff is also a possibility ..same mana cost but can counter Gideons, counterspells, etc. True that late game it can s bad.. but there is no CounterSpell so we have to work with what we have =)
Revolutionary rebuff is also a possibility ..same mana cost but can counter Gideons, counterspells, etc. True that late game it can s bad.. but there is no CounterSpell so we have to work with what we have =)
hmm.. not a terrible idea. Got me thinking of going 2x Horribly Awry with 2x Revolutionary rebuff.
We have been up quite a bit and being that's it 4:47am I think I'll crash There are some interesting choices out of the SB, most of this is building on what we've seen already. G1's the deck feels VERY strong, and is able to pretty much 1 for 1 until Gearhulks or Kalita's take over. We cut Yahenni's Expertise altogether (look this card is poorly positioned atm, and I've never want to bring it in) and decided to go with Thing in the Ice out of the SB. On the play, it's great against most decks since opponents will have to take out removal for you. This is a decent answer to combo and forces opponents to interact with you.
None of wins are free, and you'll need a fair amount of reps with the deck to understand the numerous SB configurations. That said, I'll be jamming something like this at my PPTQ; As I said, most G1's are super good, EXCEPT any kind of Colossus deck w/ Improvise. That is LOL you lose the game moment, while Disallow is a better counterspell than Void Shatter, Shatter's exile clause is really relevant ; Hence the 3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet in the 75.
,
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
Mostly against the aggressive midrange decks like, G/B, and Vehicles. The other reason for having 3 is to shore some of the U/B/x Improvise match-ups which are not in our favor but Kalitas allows us to exile their metal colossus's (weird pluralization here).
In testing we have a good match up VS Jeskai Saheeli (here is where we play to our outs, and don't burn through card selection spells unless we absolutely have too)
I'm expecting a diverse meta, it's the wild wild west, but for some reason U/B control has really good G1's and while things get harder 2 and 3, we have all the tools to win. I updated my SB:
I'm unsure of the 4th Fatal Push right now, it might be better to just have the 4th Thing in the board, but push shores up aggro match ups and allows double spell by T3 SO. I think 3x thing is fine.
@the_falsehate: I haven't tested Esper yet, I think a B/W control build may be viable and won't screw up the mana base as much, that may be worth looking into, disruption seems to be the name of the game for interactive decks and and nothing disrupts better than Transgress the Mind
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
Thoughts on this list? I'm keeping with the Summonings as the win-con (for now), so only made a few minimal changes to pre-AER. I'm toying with a third Push or Negate in the main, maybe over a Hulk, or something else. Other option is to cut the Transgress, and put in both... I'm a little wary of that though, as I want the Transgress for removal of the Saheeli pieces, among other things. I guess pulling them and changing the one in the side to a Lost Legacy is one way around it?
Jim has put an article up on Starcity about his list and changes. I would pull both out, but I'm on my phone atm.
Basically he loved Jace, didn't top 8 due to the misplay g3 in the win and in (fatal push on the wrong turn). He also cut the Fen and put another Kalitas mb (cutting 1 Awry).
Ha , no lol I like kalitas against g/b counters and delirium more, in my head I envision and think a Kalitas could help remove colossus via exiling then but that's what I'm gunning for. It's not a great plan but we either drop disallow and main void shatter again or just except that there are match ups that are well... bad.
I'm offering a hint of comedy because that match is comical for me to try to win. The colossus Deck was base u/r splash w for the cat combo imagine that. At one point he dropped 30 power on the board and then copied colossus with saheeli... I laughed hard because no matter how many times I killed it it always came back.
Jim has put an article up on Starcity about his list and changes. I would pull both out, but I'm on my phone atm.
Basically he loved Jace, didn't top 8 due to the misplay g3 in the win and in (fatal push on the wrong turn). He also cut the Fen and put another Kalitas mb (cutting 1 Awry).
Damn, I'm going to give him credit, he doesn't run Anticipate but I find that card so important. I tend to hold on it for the late game, and it's dug out answers for super late. I have a PPTQ tomorrow and have tested and tested, I'm sure U/B control has legs. It's good, and I think there are multiple control decks that are good atm, the shell is there.
Woo, I dunno, that's a risky move, if you don't have the lands and brick well you have no way to dig yourself out. I like the Mid-late game engine with Jace and Gearhulks, T4 engine is:
Glimmer into Suspicions and Jace's. After that you got into super late game and rely on Gearhulks. I get it, it's good, it's just, there are times I feel like card selection early on allows me to find that correct answers, but I have seen my own deck cut all Anticipate after SB and utterly crush G/B.
Some Cool interactions:
1) Kalitas + Push, sac a Zombie and Trigger revolt! yay
2) The "turn on delirium mode", Look they're going to remove your first 2-3 creatures and at least 2 Gearhulks are going to bite the dust. I bring to the Slaughter against PW heavy builds and G/R Energy. Bristling Hydra is stupid good against U/B and having an edict effect to make them sac hydra is quite good in this match up. Make them go in for the alpha strike and leave up mana for negate, good times! It being an Instant plays nice with Gearhulks.
3) Aether Hub is a card that pairs nicely with Glimmer, and energy, while we don't have tons of ways to get a true energy theme going; You can use the Hub to fix your mana late in the game, it's really relevant when you are casting multiple BB and UU.
Damn it that is the one spell I had to debate a ton. I found myself wanting to be able to have removal spells without a conditional clause on the draw. There were times green gearhulk cane down and smashed me due to having the wrong answer.i figured keeping 2 push and adding in another ruinous path would help against their cmc 4 and above. I think bs g/b aggro you keep push but vs deleiium you want paths.
I might be wrong , what would you do ? I'm open to suggestions because it's hard to know exactly how they'll board against you in these first few weeks.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
G/B tends to go heavy on incremental value cards like Trackers, Ob's and Nissa's. One thing I want to keep are my draw spells but cutting back on card filtering/selection isn't so bad when we interact with them favorably. I got some time to test against a very fringe deck, U/W Flash which is now just Spirit tribal. It was ROUGH, it's not a deck that was on my radar but I didn't feel favored at all. With my clunky removal (geared to beat big dumb creatures).
There;s more work to be done, with Saheeli combo beginning to run more walkers, I can see To the Slaughter being good against them, along with the 3-4 Ruinous Path.
I should mention that my version of control is geared to beat:
G/B Aggro
G/B Delirium
Saheeli Twin
Mardu Vehicles is still a thing but the removal lines up fine. Not worred about that match up.
Decks that gives my version fits:
U/W Flash
G/R Energy (Thinking of adding Slaughters MD)
Colossus
Maybe Esper is the way to go, 4 Transgress the mind may be great, I'm not sure. I know I'll be running U/B This weekend though.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
I just played a good 10 games vs GB using Jim's updated list. I won preboard 2-1 and post 5-2 (one being a mull to 6 into transgress > pick and then missing my 6 land drop for 5 turns). List seems really good vs that deck.
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I have updated the list (last post) after testing online vs Saheeli and pals.
It seems that vs. BG the fatal pushes are VERY relevant no ? Perhaps a 4 of is good? I think we should also take a page from J.Davies and increase the number of murders. Basically, I think we can 1 for 1 BG until we drop a Gearhulk, it does not seem they have a lot of CA engines besides the Tracker and Flayer. What do you think ?
Overall, do you suggest any specific changes to the list? I am looking for the cards on MTGO and will start testing tonight also there.
Cheers
They are reasonably relevant. I think that is how we beat them. Post board Ob Nix and Nissa's to be expected imo. I would like a Suspicions because I think that card is nuts in control- with Hulk anyway (however I usually board it out vs control due to cmc). I would board the Sorins, which I see you've done. I really like the new list, but think Jace over Ob. However, this really depends on what you want to do with Ob (matchups). I also don't like no Negates mb, but have no idea what to cut for them (2).
Maybe 4th Push in the side?
C Long Live Eldrazi C
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Horribly Awry is reasonable, but removal seems like the way to go, like the suggestion for another Murder.
4x Anticipate
1x Confirm Suspicions
4x Disallow
3x Fatal Push
4x Glimmer of Genius
4x Grasp of Darkness
3x Murder
3x Negate
2x Ruinous Path
Land (26)
2x Aether Hub
1x Blighted Fen
4x Choked Estuary
7x Island
4x Sunken Hollow
8x Swamp
Creature (6)
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4x Torrential Gearhulk
1x Fatal Push
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Lost Legacy
1x Negate
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
2x Ruinous Path
4x Thing in the Ice Flip
3x Transgress the Mind
We have been up quite a bit and being that's it 4:47am I think I'll crash There are some interesting choices out of the SB, most of this is building on what we've seen already. G1's the deck feels VERY strong, and is able to pretty much 1 for 1 until Gearhulks or Kalita's take over. We cut Yahenni's Expertise altogether (look this card is poorly positioned atm, and I've never want to bring it in) and decided to go with Thing in the Ice out of the SB. On the play, it's great against most decks since opponents will have to take out removal for you. This is a decent answer to combo and forces opponents to interact with you.
None of wins are free, and you'll need a fair amount of reps with the deck to understand the numerous SB configurations. That said, I'll be jamming something like this at my PPTQ; As I said, most G1's are super good, EXCEPT any kind of Colossus deck w/ Improvise. That is LOL you lose the game moment, while Disallow is a better counterspell than Void Shatter, Shatter's exile clause is really relevant ; Hence the 3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet in the 75.
,
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Round 6 vs GW Tokens
Round 12 vs Jeskai Saheeli
Round 15 vs GW Tokens
C Long Live Eldrazi C
In testing we have a good match up VS Jeskai Saheeli (here is where we play to our outs, and don't burn through card selection spells unless we absolutely have too)
I'm expecting a diverse meta, it's the wild wild west, but for some reason U/B control has really good G1's and while things get harder 2 and 3, we have all the tools to win. I updated my SB:
1x Fatal Push
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Lost Legacy
1x Negate
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
2x Ruinous Path
3x Thing in the Ice Flip
3x Transgress the Mind
1x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
I'm unsure of the 4th Fatal Push right now, it might be better to just have the 4th Thing in the board, but push shores up aggro match ups and allows double spell by T3 SO. I think 3x thing is fine.
@the_falsehate: I haven't tested Esper yet, I think a B/W control build may be viable and won't screw up the mana base as much, that may be worth looking into, disruption seems to be the name of the game for interactive decks and and nothing disrupts better than Transgress the Mind
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
1 Blighted Fen
2 Aether Hub
4 Choked Estuary
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Sunken Hollow
5 Island
8 Swamp
Draw spells (8)
3 Anticipate
4 Glimmer of Genius
1 Confirm Suspicions
1 Scatter to the Winds
2 Negate
3 Disallow
Removal (13)
2 Transgress the Mind
2 Ruinous Path
2 Fatal Push
3 Murder
4 Grasp of Darkness
Win-cons (7)
3 Metallurgic Summonings
4 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Lost Legacy
1 Negate
1 Ruinous Path
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
1 Transgress the Mind
2 Fatal Push
2 Dispel
3 Shielded Aether Thief
3 Dynavolt Tower
Basically he loved Jace, didn't top 8 due to the misplay g3 in the win and in (fatal push on the wrong turn). He also cut the Fen and put another Kalitas mb (cutting 1 Awry).
I'm offering a hint of comedy because that match is comical for me to try to win. The colossus Deck was base u/r splash w for the cat combo imagine that. At one point he dropped 30 power on the board and then copied colossus with saheeli... I laughed hard because no matter how many times I killed it it always came back.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Can u post the list for us?
Here's his updated list.
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
8 Island
9 Swamp
4 Choked Estuary
2 Submerged Boneyard
4 Sunken Hollow
1 Confirm Suspicions
4 Disallow
2 Fatal Push
4 Glimmer of Genius
4 Grasp of Darkness
1 Horribly Awry
3 Murder
3 Negate
1 Void Shatter
2 Ruinous Path
2 Dead Weight
2 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Dispel
2 Fatal Push
1 Negate
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Ruinous Path
1 Blighted Cataract
Woo, I dunno, that's a risky move, if you don't have the lands and brick well you have no way to dig yourself out. I like the Mid-late game engine with Jace and Gearhulks, T4 engine is:
Glimmer into Suspicions and Jace's. After that you got into super late game and rely on Gearhulks. I get it, it's good, it's just, there are times I feel like card selection early on allows me to find that correct answers, but I have seen my own deck cut all Anticipate after SB and utterly crush G/B.
Like a plan against G/B Aggro and Delirium is: On the Draw
-4 Anticipate, -1 Negate, -1 Fatal Push,
+1 Ruinous Path, +3 Transgress the Mind, +1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets, and +1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
On the Play I like: (7 slots)
-1 Torrential Gearhulk
+3 Thing in the Ice (OH the Juke is so real!), +3 Anticipate
I can see why, it's rough, hands that are Glimmers and Anticipates with 0 actions are borderline mulls against certain decks.
Here;s my final list, PPTQ's this weekend, please leave some input thanks
4x Anticipate
1x Confirm Suspicions
4x Disallow
3x Fatal Push
4x Glimmer of Genius
4x Grasp of Darkness
3x Murder
3x Negate
2x Ruinous Path
Land (26)
2x Aether Hub
1x Blighted Fen
4x Choked Estuary
7x Island
4x Sunken Hollow
8x Swamp
Creature (6)
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4x Torrential Gearhulk
1x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Lost Legacy
1x Negate
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1x Ruinous Path
3x Thing in the Ice
2x To the Slaughter
3x Transgress the Mind
Some Cool interactions:
1) Kalitas + Push, sac a Zombie and Trigger revolt! yay
2) The "turn on delirium mode", Look they're going to remove your first 2-3 creatures and at least 2 Gearhulks are going to bite the dust. I bring to the Slaughter against PW heavy builds and G/R Energy. Bristling Hydra is stupid good against U/B and having an edict effect to make them sac hydra is quite good in this match up. Make them go in for the alpha strike and leave up mana for negate, good times! It being an Instant plays nice with Gearhulks.
3) Aether Hub is a card that pairs nicely with Glimmer, and energy, while we don't have tons of ways to get a true energy theme going; You can use the Hub to fix your mana late in the game, it's really relevant when you are casting multiple BB and UU.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I might be wrong , what would you do ? I'm open to suggestions because it's hard to know exactly how they'll board against you in these first few weeks.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
There;s more work to be done, with Saheeli combo beginning to run more walkers, I can see To the Slaughter being good against them, along with the 3-4 Ruinous Path.
I should mention that my version of control is geared to beat:
G/B Aggro
G/B Delirium
Saheeli Twin
Mardu Vehicles is still a thing but the removal lines up fine. Not worred about that match up.
Decks that gives my version fits:
U/W Flash
G/R Energy (Thinking of adding Slaughters MD)
Colossus
Maybe Esper is the way to go, 4 Transgress the mind may be great, I'm not sure. I know I'll be running U/B This weekend though.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn