It seems you forgot to de-sideboard there's 61 cards in your main and 14 in your side (one too much counter spell)
Actually, one too many Murder.
Yes, the deck runs nine main deck counter spells! There should be an extra Never or Murder in the side - haven't fully decided which yet.
I must confess, I'm not 100% on that. It was in the Brown SCG list, and I wanted to try it. I imagine it's intended to become a fourth Gearhulk as a worst in control games, but also copies most other annoyances as well. Haven't boarded it in yet at my local store, so it's more than likely the first card to be cut in the near future, probably for a second Hour of Glory (given the GY recursion decks I face).
I think we simply need to increase the number of sweepers. Adrian Sullivan's PT FRF deck (one of the last UB decks to run well at a PT) was geared to beat aggro, and from what I remember ran at least 6-7 sweepers, and only a few actual counters. I think there was one Drown in Sorrow (replace with Flaying Tendrils), 3-4 Perilous Vault, and a Crux of Fate. Oh, and there was an Aetherspouts too, which is basically equivalent these days to an Engulf the Shore. I think that we may need to stop trying to one-for-one the aggro decks, and move to including more value plays.
So how are people working this format out after the pt? Control still viable at a high level? All the UR decks that I saw got smashed on camera.
I'm assuming R aggro or BG will be the 2 main decks. Queller and/or Authority for the Esper lists? Tendrils mb?
I think UR is on the way out. They have too hard a time recovering from early strikes, and resolved non-creature permanents. I'm testing Filigree Familiar in SB to beat the heavy aggro decks. Basically speed bumps that can be recurred with Liliana, The Last Hope and The Scarab God. BTW, The Scarab God is REALLY good for mid to late game vs. aggro and midrange. The exile effects are almost nonexistent currently.
The list that I'm running at the moment has 2 Bolas and 3 Gearhulk (only red sources are 4 Aether Hub, but it works). I really want to get in a Scarab God or two though. What do we think the correct mix is? 3 Gearhulk, 1 God, 2 Bolas? 3/2/1? 2/2/2? 2/1/2?
I'm testing Contraband Kingpin in the side against R aggro. It completely stops all their turn 1-2 creatures until they can devote a Shock or an Incendiary Flow on top of combat damage, and even then, it gives you 1 life, prevents an attack, might even kill the attacker, and draws away a burn spell.
I'm honestly debating going to ub summonings list, Just due to how fast it can turn the corner. Also my amonkhet cards still haven't arrived...and have played only 1 hou draft due to moving, etc.
I've been away from standard since the middle of Amonkhet but might want to play GameDay... how does the UB summonings list look nowadays and is it still viable?
For refference, before switching to modern, my list looked like this (though I liked the transformation to Dynavol Tower/Shielded Aether Thief less and less... UR does DT better than UB anyways. probably would try Kingpin again to fend of aggro until Summonings is online):
I think it would do ok, but you'll need some yahennis expertise and essence scatters imo. Confirm and lost legacy are probably more sb cards due to the meta and it's speed. I wouldn't play legacy mb unless ramp is like 70% of the meta anyway. Probably worth some of the 3 cmc black helix (can't remember the name) and kalitas too
Play 26 land, 60 cards total. There's no need to be at 61. Also, don't run Evolving Wilds. This needs as many untapped lands as possible turns 3-5, and Wilds doesn't help. Lost Legacy is niche sideboard, but I would keep Suspicions main in a Summonings deck. Ob Nix can also be sideboard if needed. Also, four Gearhulk is probably too much. Three seems to be right in that list. You don't want to flood an opening hand with multiple Summonings and Gearhulks. Then as Corranhorn suggested - Kalitas in the side, and I'd also suggest Doomfall and/or Hour of Glory to increase your exile effects to stop Khenra recursion.
Also, run Never // Return over Ruinous Path. A neat trick with aftermath cards in Summonings is that they help you early game, then they lie around in your graveyard and wait to become huge tokens once Summonings is out.
Basically, with Summonings out, Never // Return reads "Destroy a creature or planeswalker, AND create a 2/2 Zombie token, AND a 3/3 Construct token, AND a 4/4 Construct token, AND exile a card from their graveyard". All in one card.
Also, run Never // Return over Ruinous Path. A neat trick with aftermath cards in Summonings is that they help you early game, then they lie around in your graveyard and wait to become huge tokens once Summonings is out.
Basically, with Summonings out, Never // Return reads "Destroy a creature or planeswalker, AND create a 2/2 Zombie token, AND a 3/3 Construct token, AND a 4/4 Construct token, AND exile a card from their graveyard". All in one card.
Except if you run (and care) about Yahenni's Expertise. You can't cast Never // Return with the "free" spell half of the Expertise.
This is what I'm planning to take to games day. Unfortunately due to shipping issues the only Amonkhet or Hour card I have access to is 1 Kefnet. The meta is completely unknown, but I am expecting a lot of brews and maybe 1 RDW.
This is what I'm planning to take to games day. Unfortunately due to shipping issues the only Amonkhet or Hour card I have access to is 1 Kefnet. The meta is completely unknown, but I am expecting a lot of brews and maybe 1 RDW.
I have 3 spots in the main. I am debating take inventory, but only have 3 spots and it seems pointless to run 3. Are there any suggestions?
I'd steer clear of Take inventory. Sorcery speed, high variance on how good it is per game, and that desert that exiles graveyards is seeing a fair amount of play, and is already good against you, being a Gearhulk deck. If you want more draw, Hieroglyphic Illumination and Pull From Tomorrow are your best bets. Try The Scarab God if you can get one. It's been really good for me lately.
Which would have a better chance? Looking at 1 fumigate and 2 legacy into the board on this too, but unsure where.
I think at least 1 Fumigate is good to have. Also, some number of Anguished Unmaking or Cast Out. I am trying Authority Of The Consuls SB this weekend in case of red decks. It's good against aggro in general, though. Makes Ishkanah much less exciting. Also, makes recurring Zombies less painful, and slows Vehicle crewing.
True. How would you make room? Cut a Kingpin/Baral? (Fumigate) and maybe cut others for Authority?
What about Legacy? Just for the brews and possible ramp decks.
I have no access to Cast Out, but have 2 Unmaking in there (1 mb, 1 sb).
Sorry, I missed the Unmakings. Not really a fan of Baral, especially with Abrade and Censor popular, I don't know what he accomplishes right now. I never tried Kinpin, but that could probably be shaved down. Sounds good againt RDW, but bad agaiunst BG and Zombies.
Also, if you don't know your meta, or there is a bunch of Red/Zombies/Vehicles, I think you want to lower your curve. This deck looks a bit top heavy, which is better against midrange/ramp/other control.
How would you suggest? I mean ideally I'd have Scatters, Pulls, etc in there but I don't have access.
I'd love more draw, but not sure what to use. I'm probably missing something but I'm running the set of glimmer and have been advised against take inventory.
EDIT: Sorry for all the 'please help me build' stuff. Been basically out of the game since 2 weeks before Amonkhet release (moving countries, etc). And only found out I could play in this games day event like 24 hours ago. This is what I had built for back then. And the event starts in like 6.5 hours and haven't slept yet... assume I have x4 of everything control related pre amonkhet, with my only card from amonkhet and hour being 1 kefnet.
Supreme Will has been doing work for me. It's useful in both modes, and I'm beginning to think of reducing my number of Pulls... Baral was surprisingly disappointing when I tried it, and I think that two Kalitas is enough from the side, if you can increase early draw. Finally, Legacy is too much of a waste. I'd concentrate on countering or killing, rather than a card advantage neutral play.
I wish I could play Will and Pull. I'll cut Baral and maybe a Kalitas. Just unsure what draw I could add. Any suggestions (No Hour or Amonkhet access)?
Also debating Sultai, gives me Pulse and Catacomb Sifter (which I have as a good meta read atm, esp vs red).
I wish I could play Will and Pull. I'll cut Baral and maybe a Kalitas. Just unsure what draw I could add. Any suggestions (No Hour or Amonkhet access)?
Also debating Sultai, gives me Pulse and Catacomb Sifter (which I have as a good meta read atm, esp vs red).
Forgot Supreme Will. GREAT card, but may be hard to get. For secondary draw, try Hieroglyphic Illumination. It's Ahmonket, but it's a dime common. The cycling early is very good, and it's really synergistic with Gearhulk.
That's on my radar. I'll have to see what's available to borrow/trade from people. The only store I've found is a small hobby shop that doesn't sell singles haha.
Ok, someone talk me out of another one of my weird ideas...
First off, back story. Pro Tour DTK, and Atarka Red was a thing. Control decks were geared for Abzan and other midrange match ups (RG Dragons, etc), but the list that finished in 3/4th place ran Radiant Fountains. They worked great with the life gain pre board, bit combo'd well with Pearl Lake Ancient out of the board allowing the Fountains to be returned to hand and replayed.
Fast forward to the present. We again have insanely fast red decks doing their thing, and control not keeping up. If only we had a way to gain life... Enter Crypt of the Eternals. Now, I know at first glance it's just a taxation effect, making all (Grixis based) spells cost one more. However, what if we largely ignore that part of the card, and just use it as a mini Radiant Fountain? Basically run it as "When ~ ETB, gain 1 life. T: Add <> to your mana pool." Anything else is just a bonus. Talking of bonuses, it also combo's with Kefnet's draw ability - we return Crypt to hand, give ourselves a blocker that can take out pretty much anything Ramunap Red throws at us, and then replay Crypt next turn...
Ok, someone talk me out of another one of my weird ideas...
First off, back story. Pro Tour FRF, and Atarka Red was a thing. Control decks were geared for Abzan and other midrange match ups (RG Dragons, etc), but the list that finished in 3/4th place ran Radiant Fountains. They worked great with the life gain pre board, bit combo'd well with Pearl Lake Ancient out of the board allowing the Fountains to be returned to hand and replayed.
Fast forward to the present. We again have insanely fast red decks doing their thing, and control not keeping up. If only we had a way to gain life... Enter Crypt of the Eternals. Now, I know at first glance it's just a taxation effect, making all (Grixis based) spells cost one more. However, what if we largely ignore that part of the card, and just use it as a mini Radiant Fountain? Basically run it as "When ~ ETB, gain 1 life. T: Add <> to your mana pool." Anything else is just a bonus. Talking of bonuses, it also combo's with Kefnet's draw ability - we return Crypt to hand, give ourselves a blocker that can take out pretty much anything Ramunap Red throws at us, and then replay Crypt next turn...
Thoughts or counter arguments?
With the concern being fast decks, possibly making your color requirements harder early sounds like a possible death sentence. For Grixis, I think you want the usual cheap red burn, and Gifted Aetherborn and/or Essence Extraction.
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Yes, the deck runs nine main deck counter spells! There should be an extra Never or Murder in the side - haven't fully decided which yet.
I must confess, I'm not 100% on that. It was in the Brown SCG list, and I wanted to try it. I imagine it's intended to become a fourth Gearhulk as a worst in control games, but also copies most other annoyances as well. Haven't boarded it in yet at my local store, so it's more than likely the first card to be cut in the near future, probably for a second Hour of Glory (given the GY recursion decks I face).
I'm assuming R aggro or BG will be the 2 main decks. Queller and/or Authority for the Esper lists? Tendrils mb?
I think UR is on the way out. They have too hard a time recovering from early strikes, and resolved non-creature permanents. I'm testing Filigree Familiar in SB to beat the heavy aggro decks. Basically speed bumps that can be recurred with Liliana, The Last Hope and The Scarab God. BTW, The Scarab God is REALLY good for mid to late game vs. aggro and midrange. The exile effects are almost nonexistent currently.
For refference, before switching to modern, my list looked like this (though I liked the transformation to Dynavol Tower/Shielded Aether Thief less and less... UR does DT better than UB anyways. probably would try Kingpin again to fend of aggro until Summonings is online):
1 Blighted Fen
4 Choked Estuary
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Sunken Hollow
6 Island
8 Swamp
2 Aether Hub
Creatures (4)
4 Torrential Gearhulk
Spells (30)
3 Metallurgic Summonings
4 Glimmer of Genius
1 Confirm Suspicions
1 Negate
3 Disallow
2 Void Shatter
3 Fatal Push
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Murder
2 Ruinous Path
1 Flaying Tendrils
2 Lost Legacy
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
4 Shielded Aether Thief
3 Dynavolt Tower
2 Yahenni’s Expertise
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Negate
1 Ruinous Path
1 Fatal Push
TL;DR
-2 Evolving Wilds, +1 Aether Hub
-2 Lost Legacy, +2 Doomfall
-1 Gearhulk, -1 Ob Nix, +2 Essence Scatter
SB -1 Thief, -1 Tendrils, +2 Kalitas
Basically, with Summonings out, Never // Return reads "Destroy a creature or planeswalker, AND create a 2/2 Zombie token, AND a 3/3 Construct token, AND a 4/4 Construct token, AND exile a card from their graveyard". All in one card.
Except if you run (and care) about Yahenni's Expertise. You can't cast Never // Return with the "free" spell half of the Expertise.
4 grasp of darkness
2 negate
2 liliana, the last hope
1 murder
4 disallow
2 yahenni's expertise
4 glimmer of genius
1 jace, unraveler of secrets
1 confirm suspicions
3 metallurgical summonings
3 torrential gearhulk
2 submerged boneyard
4 sunken hollow
4 choked estuary
1 blighted Feb
1 blighted cataract
2 aether hub
6 swamp
6 island
3 contraband kingpin
1 negate
2 flaying tendrils
1 kefnet
1 murder
2 lost legacy
1 to the slaughter
3 kalitas
1 ob nixilis
I have 3 spots in the main. I am debating take inventory, but only have 3 spots and it seems pointless to run 3. Are there any suggestions?
I'd steer clear of Take inventory. Sorcery speed, high variance on how good it is per game, and that desert that exiles graveyards is seeing a fair amount of play, and is already good against you, being a Gearhulk deck. If you want more draw, Hieroglyphic Illumination and Pull From Tomorrow are your best bets. Try The Scarab God if you can get one. It's been really good for me lately.
EDIT: This is the other list I'm debating
4 grasp of darkness
3 negate
4 disallow
2 liliana
1 anguished unmaking
1 flaying tendrils
1 murder
4 glimmer
2 yahenni's
2 summonings
1 jace
1 confirm
1 sorin
3 gearhulk
2 plains
3 island
3 swamp
3 vent
3 prairie stream
2 hub
4 hollow
4 estuary
2 boneyard
1 baral
1 blessed alliance
3 kingpin
1 negate
1 tendrils
1 anguished
1 kefnet
1 murder
1 slaughter
3 kalitas
1 ob nix
Which would have a better chance? Looking at 1 fumigate and 2 legacy into the board on this too, but unsure where.
I think at least 1 Fumigate is good to have. Also, some number of Anguished Unmaking or Cast Out. I am trying Authority Of The Consuls SB this weekend in case of red decks. It's good against aggro in general, though. Makes Ishkanah much less exciting. Also, makes recurring Zombies less painful, and slows Vehicle crewing.
What about Legacy? Just for the brews and possible ramp decks.
I have no access to Cast Out, but have 2 Unmaking in there (1 mb, 1 sb).
Sorry, I missed the Unmakings. Not really a fan of Baral, especially with Abrade and Censor popular, I don't know what he accomplishes right now. I never tried Kinpin, but that could probably be shaved down. Sounds good againt RDW, but bad agaiunst BG and Zombies.
Also, if you don't know your meta, or there is a bunch of Red/Zombies/Vehicles, I think you want to lower your curve. This deck looks a bit top heavy, which is better against midrange/ramp/other control.
I'd love more draw, but not sure what to use. I'm probably missing something but I'm running the set of glimmer and have been advised against take inventory.
EDIT: Sorry for all the 'please help me build' stuff. Been basically out of the game since 2 weeks before Amonkhet release (moving countries, etc). And only found out I could play in this games day event like 24 hours ago. This is what I had built for back then. And the event starts in like 6.5 hours and haven't slept yet... assume I have x4 of everything control related pre amonkhet, with my only card from amonkhet and hour being 1 kefnet.
Also debating Sultai, gives me Pulse and Catacomb Sifter (which I have as a good meta read atm, esp vs red).
Forgot Supreme Will. GREAT card, but may be hard to get. For secondary draw, try Hieroglyphic Illumination. It's Ahmonket, but it's a dime common. The cycling early is very good, and it's really synergistic with Gearhulk.
First off, back story. Pro Tour DTK, and Atarka Red was a thing. Control decks were geared for Abzan and other midrange match ups (RG Dragons, etc), but the list that finished in 3/4th place ran Radiant Fountains. They worked great with the life gain pre board, bit combo'd well with Pearl Lake Ancient out of the board allowing the Fountains to be returned to hand and replayed.
Fast forward to the present. We again have insanely fast red decks doing their thing, and control not keeping up. If only we had a way to gain life... Enter Crypt of the Eternals. Now, I know at first glance it's just a taxation effect, making all (Grixis based) spells cost one more. However, what if we largely ignore that part of the card, and just use it as a mini Radiant Fountain? Basically run it as "When ~ ETB, gain 1 life. T: Add <> to your mana pool." Anything else is just a bonus. Talking of bonuses, it also combo's with Kefnet's draw ability - we return Crypt to hand, give ourselves a blocker that can take out pretty much anything Ramunap Red throws at us, and then replay Crypt next turn...
Thoughts or counter arguments?
EDIT - put the correct PT!
With the concern being fast decks, possibly making your color requirements harder early sounds like a possible death sentence. For Grixis, I think you want the usual cheap red burn, and Gifted Aetherborn and/or Essence Extraction.