MTG Salvation

The reason I only run 1 Teferi is because if you draw more than 1,it sucks against decks putting pressure on you. The 1 I run is normally enough when I need him ( i board in grim harvest against decks with heavy removal) and I dont have enough room for 3. If I am facing a teferi mirror match, i just board in take possession, let theirs resolve, and steal it. Teferi just isnt relavant in the tough match ups (rack, gruul, rdw, rakdos, solar flare)

I am not trying to dismiss the decks results ( and teferi is really good ) but I just feel that in the current metagame, he is a win-more card, and epochrasite is just a better win con than the pickles lock against most of the decks in the format. I would like some more criticism and thoughts about the deck, though. And if you are skeptical, play out the list, and you'll see it does better than the standard dralnu lists in this current meta.

ps: the list should be 3 teachings

Quote from Jiaozy

Teferi is the gear that makes the deck roll...
You WANT to draw into one, without wasting a Teachings for him, because he's always good, no matter the MU.

Against aggro he's got a fat ass and can block avoiding combat tricks, he turns off the major problem of this deck after the loss of Rewind, the whole burn-you-at-eot thing, he allows you to play out your creatures as instant speed if you didn't need to counter/remove anything, it turns off stuff like Madness and Suspend, he gives you DI combat tricks with Vampire/'Stalker, he gives you the chance to tap out for high CC spells when you don't need the mana and are about to untap such as Vampire, Chronicler, Arcanis and such, it blanks most cards in opposing decks: Remand, Snakes, Venser (they become less-costy Cloudskates), EoT Blinking, EoT Bogardans and so on and so forth...

If that wasn't enough, you can play him in your opponent's turn...

Teferi is a 3of MUST, no question asked and without a doubt.

If you draw into a second you can either let them burn him, trade with a Solifuge, Damnation and cast one again...

qft, i heart epochrasite...just not in this deck

teferi 3x is a must, i agree

ps: i wasted my hundredth post on a QFT...how lame, haha

Hello all, I just won my first Standard Const. FNM last night with this build:



Round 1 was against a R/W deck that played a few BDW creatures and Loxodon Warhammer. Not a real difficult match up, here. Desert and counterspells FTW.

Round 2 was against a B/R Izzet deck that ran cards like Jhoira of the Ghitu, Tibor and Lumia and such plus Remand and Mana Leak (which I only realized just now that the Leak isn't standard legal anymore ). Not a difficult matchup. A slow start game 1 left me at 7, but once I stabilized, it was smooth sailing with Tombstalker.

Round 3 was against the player who has won every single standard const. tourney in my area (since I have one of the few decks in the area that beats his consistently and this is the first time we were paired in a tournament). He runs a very good, very solid Solar Pox deck. Before sideboard, if I keep my cool and let his card draws resolve (Delay shuts down Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and the Court Hussar draw engine by extension), then I can counter his real threats. Game 2 I side in Shimian Specter and Haunting Hymn because he plays 3 Extirpate md and always sides the 4th in against me (Hits Tefere, Teachings and 2 counterspells in that order). He's a little bit mana screwed (for about 3 turns) and I do nothing but charge counters on my reef. Eventually, I have a huge EOT step where I flash in Teferi, Mystical Teachings for Shimian Specter, flash in Specter. Next turn, swing and hit all his Extirpates. That was game.

Round 4 was against a more traditional Solar Flare deck that run more Wrath and Damnation and played a slower game...which is perfect for my deck. Game 2 he sides in Extirpates (of course), but doesn't need them. I'm stuck on four lands and decide to play Careful Consideration on my turn so I can keep Tombstalker and Draining Whelk in hand. I have 1 blue open and he plays...Shimian Specter. I have no bounce or Teachings for a response, I chump block with a Draining Whelk (1/1) and eventually succumb to Specter and Debtor's Knell. Game 3 I play Venser at EOT bouncing a karoo, and proceed to control the game for 10 turns while I swing with him FTW.

I went down an Urborg for another Aqueduct, and I don't regret it. While aggro was not nearly as prevalent as it has been in the past (somebody was even playing this deck too!), I still only used Tendrils 1-2 times all night. Tombstalker saved me in so many games where Skeletal Vampire would not (mostly because of delve playing him for 2-3 mana and staying open for control). Venser was similarly amazing. Your opponent never wants to be on the receiving end of a Venser + Grim Harvest mini-lock. I am now sold on Haunting Hymn (but not in MD), as it saved me a couple of rough games by ripping their hand on my turn with 2 open for a Rune Snag. Teferi is (obviously) also amazing in every matchup. Jiaozy is right, 3 is a great number, even if you are playing Grim Harvest.

I would now like to drop my Slaughter Pacts from sideboard since I have enough basics to handle Magus of the Moon. Any suggestions for those two slots?

I wouldn't replace them. They at least replace Tendrils against Gargadon, or even help a lot with Pickles. Until you think there's something THAT much more valuable, I think you should leave them. I've never been disappointed with their playability. Being able to tutor and use it for free is also awesome (since flashback for Teachings can be steep, it becomes very useful here).

If that wasn't enough, you can play him in your opponent's turn...

Teferi is a 3of MUST, no question asked and without a doubt.

You forgot, on your extensive list, that he has great synergy with the very useful Delay. (how many times do you drop teferi while the delayed spells are still removed?)

Also, what do you guys think of the new counterspell: UU Instant As an additional cost to play ~, return a creature to your hand. Counter target spell.
I was trying to evaluate it, and I don't like it. I think the Rescue mechanic would only work if there is some super useful rescuer in blue's own colors. Who would bother running these over Delay/Rune Snag, even in a rescue deck? but I thought I'd ask, and see if I was missing something? Venser seems to be the only great creature to use it with, and not being able to play it without creatures seems too sucky to me. (I'd rather run Cancel)

Agreed about the new counterspell. It is meant to work with the new fairies (supposedly there is a 2-drop fairy w/Flying, Flash, counterspell unless they pay 1 for each fairy), so let's wait for a full (or mostly full) spoiler to worry about post-Ravnica builds of Dralnu.

@ NetherTraitor, are there any other removal spells I could be playing in Slaughter Pact's place in the current Standard? Slaughter Pact is nice, but I rarely want to be able to tutor for it a second time (unless I'm mana flooded with Tolaria West and no Teachings, which is rare) as there are kill spells I can pay for on my opponent's turn that work well, too. If I think of any really good ideas I will let you know...

Quote from koschei

That new Counterspell won't fit in Dralnu. I'm going to put them in a UG list, though. Fun with 187 critters, here I come!

I definately agree with you here. The new counterspell may be good when you can return Mystic Snakes or other CitP creatures, but it Dralnu, it just won't do. We don't have enough creatures to make it effective, and the creatures we do run are usually winning the game for us, and we won't want to return them to our hands.

So coming back from an FNM, I can say that epochrasite has been very good. He puts on a nice clock after I stabalize, giving my opponents very few turns to win. However, the deck feels much different than conventional dralnu lists. I am going to be testing out the deck with different win-cons, and maybe more teferis, but honestly, I never needed more than one teferi all night, so I still dont know (i especially like making my opponent waste an extirpate on my 1 teferi). I think running 1 teferi, and being able to have epochrasites do the blocking, makes the deck much more resiliant against aggro. I am testing the deck more today, but honestly, I think that in my metagame (lots of angelfire, rdw, solar flare) 1 teferi is all I need in the deck.

Has anyone tried running a snow-land base in this deck? Something along the lines of;

4 scrying sheets
4 frost marsh
10 snow-covered island
6 snow-covered swamp
1 urza's factory

It would handle the card advantage needed to win in long matches, the CIPT on Frost Marsh wouldn't be bad first turn as we're not doing much then anyways. Having Scrying sheets handles our card draw (and its uncounterable draw), and it would free up deck space for more counters, removal, etc. Plus we would have the option of Mouth of Ronom for opposing Teferis. So what do you think?

Currently, a Snow engine is unnecessary. We have all the resources and CA that we need, and adding in Scrying Sheets and the like is a little too much. However, after rotation, it might be something to consider. We'll have to take a look at what Lorwyn offers first, though.

Thoughts about a 1-of Duskmantle, House of Shadow in the mirror match? I played against a deck that used it last Saturday, and it managed to make me miss about three land drops over five or so turns of draw-go-style play.

I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion of what to take out for bottle gnomes against aggro and what to drop for extripate against control and/or call of the herd aggro?
Thanks for the love L.C

I wouldn't take out repeal vs. angelfire. Many lists are running sacred mesa now, and repeal is about the only answer this deck has to the mesa. The only exception is potentially "outracing" it using skeletal vampire and friends. I'd also side in extirpate if they have firemane angel. That card singlehandedly will wreck you.

Against aggro, I side out stuff like Cancel, Careful Consideration, Draining Whelk, etc. and bring in bottle gnomes and terror and flashfreeze. You want to have as many cheap answers to their creatures as possible, and take out any of your cards that take a long time to set up.

Quote from Jiaozy

Against control such as Angelfire and Solar Flare you drop Damnations and Repeal, against Pickles and OmniChord Damnations are useful since they play and need loads of creatures to act effectively, against aggro you drop things that cost too much to be effective and do too little when they resolve, like 1 teachings, Cancels, the Pickle lock, Think Twice etc.

Also, you NEVER SB in Extirpate against aggro.
Call can be dealt in a number of ways, not last blocking with Teferi.

I usually take out the three damnations for sudden deaths but your saying that maybee play extripate instead against control.
I play 1 terror 2 tendrils and thats my creature kill main.
I need some way to bring in bottle gnomes without ruining my deck. cause getting burnt is pissin me off!
someone Help S>O>S
Thanks for the feedback

Quote from Loose Cannon

I usually take out the three damnations for sudden deaths but your saying that maybee play extripate instead against control.
I play 1 terror 2 tendrils and thats my creature kill main.
I need some way to bring in bottle gnomes without ruining my deck. cause getting burnt is pissin me off!
someone Help S>O>S
Thanks for the feedback

a decklist would be helpful...aside from that i'd say take out remands (if you're bringing in bottle gnomes vs aggro) as remands don't do too much, also, take out any SLOW win conditions, ie chronic whelk pickles lock

1x grim harvest is actually kind of good, ive been using one for a little while and i love it

have you guys tried splashing for G/R for other win cons. (hellkite would go great in here). tarmogoyf is a great wincon for you guys. G also gives you putrefy which is excellent spot removal. there is detritivores of your own in red. i would consider at least trying these ideas before disregarding them. i might even try it out and see how it does.

Hmmmm...let me know how splashing a third/fourth color works for you...I know I've been trying to add basic lands back in against Detritivore and Magus of the Moon, not weaken myself to them in the hopes that I can kill them first. The point of this control deck is to stop what your opponent does, not race them at it. The Hellkite is interesting, but not really needed since there are finishers in U/ that do just as well withou splashing other colors...

...and how about Cryptic Command, everybody? Did Blue just get it's Christmas present early? If this is what Wizards calls "weakening Blue", we may see some good Ravnica replacements for the deck after all...

You're not looking at the card properly. It's a versatile answer - like Venser in some ways, more like a cantripping Time Stop in others - that allows you to free up some space for other cards. It functions as Boomerang/Repeal, multi-Ice, Dismiss or a mish-mash of any of them.

Does it replace Damnation... of course not. But it provides a suite of choices from a single card. Basically instead of 4 bullets you only need 2 copies of this.

Quote from Jiaozy

Am I the only one that thinks it doesn't do enough?
C'mon, Dismiss that costs a U more?
For 4 mana I think that there are better options...

Not that excited but I can see the merit of the card as a 1 of, 2 at best.

It's also as good as a Repeal for 3 mana, and better for anything above that. The mana cost may be slightly harder to hit, but we already hit UUU for Teferi a turn later. I think it's playable, although builds with it may require a slightly different mana base than current.

cryptic command would definitely be played since rav cards will rotate out (no more remands, spell snares, and repeals). maybe 2 in the MD, though i don't know if it can be fitted as a 4-of MD as it won't fit in the curve. though it costs :1mana::symu::symu::symu:, it is more flexible than dismiss especially now since repeal will be gone. it'll also be better than repeal not only for permanents with 4 mana cc and above but it can also bounce lands (especially storage lands, treetop villages). it also introduces a new option of counter + bounce in one which can give you great tempo advantage. this card will give you more options than dismiss for that difference in the mana cost which i think is reasonable.

the mana requirement would be more harder to hit, but we already have a :symu::symu::symu: mana requirement in the name of teferi as velict said. as for the mana base itself, there would definitely be a different one because the watery graves will be rotating out.

I was looking over my deck and when Ravnica rotates I will lose:

4 Watery Grave
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Remand
3 Spell Snare
1 Repeal
1 Skeletal Vampire

I love this deck so much and I would hate to see it die after RAV(I don't think it will)

Right now we have Cryptic Command which is pretty insane and I'm very happy with it as a 2-of maybe even 3-of in the deck. I'm still missing lots of cards and this deck isn't and will not be tribal at all so that new faerie dual land looks gross for us as of now. What about Dread? 6/6 Fear, No Mercy, Beacon effect? looks pretty sweet to me replacing the Batman. And that pretty little Wydwen faerie is sexy. Flash, Flying, Return to my hand?! Awesome sauce. Let's see what else Lorwyn brings. 2 Delay instead of one and 2 Cancels? I don't know.

I expect this deck to change more into the Block Relic Control deck, or maybe more like the Teachings from Block. Less counters, more things along the lines of Damnation.

I think Cryptic Command will be a great one- or two-of, as it does double-duty and is yet another hard counter.

I've been away from the deck for awhile and I notice a lot of changes, many, as a result of the 9th-10th rotation I presume. I've been playing this deck from it's archaic days circa French nationals up until semi recently (pre 10th) when I've been preparing almost exclusively for a local Vintage circuit. I'm curious as to the shift in the creature base. The 3x Teferi is the same as my build but I am still running Dralnu and Skeletal Vampire. I'm just curious, in a nutshell, why are the Whelk and Stalker preferred, or for that matter the Shifter and Brine (more obvious)? Keep in mind I haven't picked this deck up in months and I apologize if I am asking something that has been discussed previously.

I, too, prefer Stalker
Sometimes he "just wins"
He can also block...A LOT

Thanks for the clarification. I noticed right away that Tombstalker and Dralnu were not a good combination. However i agree with you that Skeletal Vampire is probably the best beatstick, at least on paper. Are you running multiple finishers because of the prevalence of Extirpate? Or have you found out that running multiples in this deck dramatically decreases your opponent's clock and makes it less likely to end in a draw?