So right now, what would be a typical RDW list? Either with or without Gargadon.
One observation i have is that his deck is very very meta dependent, possibly one of the most meta-dependent decks I've ever played.
In my Meta, I have a very large ammount of White in varying forms, including BW Control, BW discard/rack, GWGatzi-Glare and RWB Dark Boros (the only deck i lost to last week(he got Soltari Priest turn 2 games one and three, and I didn't see sulfur elemetal till it was too late)). Other decks include GR LD, UG Pickles, BR Mad-Bent, GR Aggro/pump, UB Mystical Teachings tech, and finally Mono-U Pickles...
As you can see, I've made a few meta-choices. I need the gargadon, as it beats LD well, and can really beat-face against most aggro decks. The heavy white beats main and the mass removal in the sideboard is becuase of teh critical need for burn against the other aggro decks. Also, I really love being able to play sulfur elemental at the end of my opponets turn. I think I would probably play it even if it didn't hose white. Let him make his decisions, let him play his *** or Damnation. I don't know how many times I've had an opponent sweep, and then i drop sulfur elemetal. (of course, agsint control, I hope to play giant solifuge the turn after Damnation, and then swing for 7)...I had Blood Moon for a while, but i find that i prefer winning or using win cards rather than messing my opponent...and with signets far and wide, it doesn't really help that much, unfortunately. Post-sideboard, when I MUST have krosan grip, i found i had 7 reactive cards, which means that I am slowed very much...
Oh, and thanks to lycantivis for the help in a few of the choices.
I really liked the non-gargadon version lycantivis posted, but it's very hard to find Char in my city, so I need another card to fit the slots. What you people suggest?
I either don't have all 4 Browbeat, so I need another draw acceleration card. Any ideas?
Ghosfire easly fits in the char spot costing the same and doing 1 less point of damage. You can run scorched rusalkas in the spot of the browbeat till you get them thats the shifty spot in my build is between those 2.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
very usable most of use run 4 in the sideboard if your meta is abundant with targets then yes that would be a good card to run.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
I'm thinking maybe I could run Cryoclasm in the spot of the browbeat. Decks with Islands or Plains are very popular in my meta.
is it usable?
Cryoclasms are in my sideboard, against UB or splash-white decks I pull out my hammers for them. Turn 3, blowing up a tapped out control player's only Hallowed Fountain is always enjoyable.
I was play-testing and discovered 21 lands, in my opinion, are just a little bit more than we need. I think I'll use 1 Demonfire in the MD, just as a last resort.
I was play-testing and discovered 21 lands, in my opinion, are just a little bit more than we need. I think I'll use 1 Demonfire in the MD, just as a last resort.
Opinions?
I tried running 2 Demonfires MD for a while, I never got enough mana out to make it worthwhile though. I'd use it occasionally to burn through a defender, but that job could have been done by a Hammer or Bolt easily enough.
I run about 19-20 lands in my deck, but 2 of them are Keldon Megaliths and 2 are Zoetic Caverns, so they're a bit less efficient that regular mountains. If your running Gathan Raiders or Jaya Ballard you're going to want a few more lands than the standard 18 so you can pitch them.
Ive been running 18 mountains and 3 Megaliths. I am thinking about testing zoetic cavern against cop and as a fake out for gathan raiders. It also makes drawing lands after you're in topdeck mode less painful.
It's very consistent. I'm not sure about 4 of everything, maybe It's the wrong number. But it seems very good the way it is. I've got turn 4 wins lots of times, and Needle is exactly what Sligh needed against Story Circle g2.
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Current Playing [T2]:
UBB Rogues UUB Faeries RW Seismic Swans RRR Control
4 Simian Guides and 4 Rite of Flame ... what exactly are you accelerating into?
Some versions use mana-acceleration in the form of SSG and RoF in order to be able to play expensive cards (Cmc 3 or more) on turn one or two, and it allows the deck to win on average (in my experience) about a turn earlier
The problem with mana acceration here, is that if you aren't fish-bowling, and you have a reactive player for an opponet and not a vurtual or passive opponet (i.e. not the 10 year-old kid at FNM that doesn't know he can block yet, or a pre-tenth ed. dragonstorm player) that mana acceleration turns into terrible card advantage, for minimal gain, IMHO. I tried the SSG, and as cute as it may be, I personally would prefer to win a turn later (once again, on average against and opponent who does nothing), and have him be a char or sulfur elemental, which would allow me to burn or kill creatues, before they get out of hand. (Birds of Paradise, for example. Let it live, and now my opponents can play a turn three Loxodon Hierarch...oh goody...) I guess I play Mono-red Aggro-control (lol), but since in a real game, all burn is pointed at critters until they are in burn range (for me, i start aiming for the dome someplace between 6-10). fishbowling and rushing to a turn four kill isn't realistic, becuase some of your creatures will get blocked along the way, or something will get condemned.
That said, 16 lands total and 4 of them that come into play tapped is entirely too few. Even with accelerators, i wouldn't run less than 20. Why? becuase if you miss a SINGLE land drop between turns 1 and 3, you are totally screwed a pretty big percentage of the time...
Maybe you could got to 18-19 lands with the acceration, but i think it is silly to risk such horrible manascrew.
the t2 Mono-green aggro deck i ran had 4 Birds of Paradise, 4 Llanowar elves, and 4 Scryb ranger for acceleration, with a curve topping out at 3 Spectral force. Go ahead and guess how many lands i ran. Guess!!! The answer? 19. And i would get mana-screwed. and before you say it, no, i didn't just need to shuffle better
Just my Oppinion, though I think I'm sticking to it
It's very consistent. I'm not sure about 4 of everything, maybe It's the wrong number. But it seems very good the way it is. I've got turn 4 wins lots of times, and Needle is exactly what Sligh needed against Story Circle g2.
4 browbeats are 2 many as many people have said before and i don't think you need mana acelraters in this deck, its fast enough without them and i would rather have burn or creatures instead of useless late game plays. i know a lot of you will say "this is an aggro deck, it doesn't have a late game" but sometimes you don't win as fast as you would like too.
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Life moves pretty fast sometimes, if you don't stop
and look around every once and a while you could miss it. - ferris bueller
The thing is late game to this deck is only mid game to mid range/control decks. Turn 8 is way late game for us where as thats where dralnu is just starting to do something. Though megaliths gave us the lategame finisher that isn't counterable that we were missing every deck should have 3 and I am testing 4 soon.
Yea SSG is not nessary let alone that its pure card disadvantage for 1 mana.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Shouldn't Ghitu Encampment have a place in this deck for those situations where Wrath of God or Damnation and your next few draws have no creatures in them but I was thinking that 4 cip lands is a bit too much.
I use accelerations to make things faster. Liek, 2 Rift Bolts turn 1, Keldon turn 1, Sulfur turn 2, Spark Elemental + Brute Force turn 1, etc...
And, in case I miss a land drop by turns 2 or 3, the Rite or SSG can supply this a little.
Well, maybe I can test something over SSG, but what am I missing that's worth running? I guess I'm already running the best burns in format...
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Current Playing [T2]:
UBB Rogues UUB Faeries RW Seismic Swans RRR Control
Megalith's are superior to the encampment in every way. They don't die to tendrils, they ignore Story Circle and they don't care if they have a Korlash or Tarmogoyf on the board.
Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. "God**** it Otto, you are an alcoholic." "God**** it Otto, you have Lupus" ... one of those two doesn't sound right.
Shouldn't Ghitu Encampment have a place in this deck for those situations where Wrath of God or Damnation and your next few draws have no creatures in them but I was thinking that 4 cip lands is a bit too much.
Keldon Magaliths are all you need. Last week i was playing my Dralnu deck against a RDW with white splash for Lightning Helix and flying Skyknight guy (can't remember name) anyway i had stabalised with him being Hellbent with a Megaliths in play. I was on 7 and him 17 after being hit by my Teferi Mage of Zhalfir and I was just destroying/countering everything he threw at me. It looked like i was going to win the race, then he drew a SECOND Megaliths and i knew that was game.
Conclusion is Ghitu Encampment is worse than Keldon Magaliths as it is prone to more removal as there is a heap of them these days at instant speed.
Well, maybe I can test something over SSG, but what am I missing that's worth running? I guess I'm already running the best burns in format...
Yea we understand why you run them. They just arn't needed seeing how nothing is very high on casting cost.
As for what to put in my sugestion is to look at other builds to see what you arn't runing and compair it to how your playing your deck and how to make it better.
The man lands turn into creatures. No other specifications with them. You just handle them like normal creatures and yes they do die in combat.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
I would only suggest runing ghitu if you are runing brute force. Other than that megaliths are better.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
One observation i have is that his deck is very very meta dependent, possibly one of the most meta-dependent decks I've ever played.
In my Meta, I have a very large ammount of White in varying forms, including BW Control, BW discard/rack, GWGatzi-Glare and RWB Dark Boros (the only deck i lost to last week(he got Soltari Priest turn 2 games one and three, and I didn't see sulfur elemetal till it was too late)). Other decks include GR LD, UG Pickles, BR Mad-Bent, GR Aggro/pump, UB Mystical Teachings tech, and finally Mono-U Pickles...
Here is my current list:
4 Karplusan Forest
14 Mountain
3 Greater Gargadon
4 Scorched Rusalka
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Blood Knight
4 Sulfur Elemental
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fiery Temper
4 Char
4 Giant Solifuge
4 Krosan Grip
3 Martyr of Ashes
2 Pyroclasm
2 Ghostfire
As you can see, I've made a few meta-choices. I need the gargadon, as it beats LD well, and can really beat-face against most aggro decks. The heavy white beats main and the mass removal in the sideboard is becuase of teh critical need for burn against the other aggro decks. Also, I really love being able to play sulfur elemental at the end of my opponets turn. I think I would probably play it even if it didn't hose white. Let him make his decisions, let him play his *** or Damnation. I don't know how many times I've had an opponent sweep, and then i drop sulfur elemetal. (of course, agsint control, I hope to play giant solifuge the turn after Damnation, and then swing for 7)...I had Blood Moon for a while, but i find that i prefer winning or using win cards rather than messing my opponent...and with signets far and wide, it doesn't really help that much, unfortunately. Post-sideboard, when I MUST have krosan grip, i found i had 7 reactive cards, which means that I am slowed very much...
Oh, and thanks to lycantivis for the help in a few of the choices.
I love to hear comments, by the way...
EDH: WEight-and-a-half-tailsW
EDH: U/ Dralnu, Lich Lord B/
Extended:U/ Fish U/
I really liked the non-gargadon version lycantivis posted, but it's very hard to find Char in my city, so I need another card to fit the slots. What you people suggest?
I either don't have all 4 Browbeat, so I need another draw acceleration card. Any ideas?
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
is it usable?
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Cryoclasms are in my sideboard, against UB or splash-white decks I pull out my hammers for them. Turn 3, blowing up a tapped out control player's only Hallowed Fountain is always enjoyable.
Opinions?
I tried running 2 Demonfires MD for a while, I never got enough mana out to make it worthwhile though. I'd use it occasionally to burn through a defender, but that job could have been done by a Hammer or Bolt easily enough.
I run about 19-20 lands in my deck, but 2 of them are Keldon Megaliths and 2 are Zoetic Caverns, so they're a bit less efficient that regular mountains. If your running Gathan Raiders or Jaya Ballard you're going to want a few more lands than the standard 18 so you can pitch them.
--Mono White Death & Taxes--
and look around every once and a while you could miss it. - ferris bueller
2 Keldon Megaliths
2 Ghitu Encampment
12 Mountain
// Creatures
4 Spark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Sulfur Elemental
4 Rite of Flame
4 Incinerate
4 Rift Bolt
4 Char
4 Browbeat
4 Brute Force
4 Pithing Needle
3 Cryoclasm
4 Sudden Shock
4 Pyroclasm
It's very consistent. I'm not sure about 4 of everything, maybe It's the wrong number. But it seems very good the way it is. I've got turn 4 wins lots of times, and Needle is exactly what Sligh needed against Story Circle g2.
UBB Rogues
UUB Faeries
RW Seismic Swans
RRR Control
Some versions use mana-acceleration in the form of SSG and RoF in order to be able to play expensive cards (Cmc 3 or more) on turn one or two, and it allows the deck to win on average (in my experience) about a turn earlier
The problem with mana acceration here, is that if you aren't fish-bowling, and you have a reactive player for an opponet and not a vurtual or passive opponet (i.e. not the 10 year-old kid at FNM that doesn't know he can block yet, or a pre-tenth ed. dragonstorm player) that mana acceleration turns into terrible card advantage, for minimal gain, IMHO. I tried the SSG, and as cute as it may be, I personally would prefer to win a turn later (once again, on average against and opponent who does nothing), and have him be a char or sulfur elemental, which would allow me to burn or kill creatues, before they get out of hand. (Birds of Paradise, for example. Let it live, and now my opponents can play a turn three Loxodon Hierarch...oh goody...) I guess I play Mono-red Aggro-control (lol), but since in a real game, all burn is pointed at critters until they are in burn range (for me, i start aiming for the dome someplace between 6-10). fishbowling and rushing to a turn four kill isn't realistic, becuase some of your creatures will get blocked along the way, or something will get condemned.
That said, 16 lands total and 4 of them that come into play tapped is entirely too few. Even with accelerators, i wouldn't run less than 20. Why? becuase if you miss a SINGLE land drop between turns 1 and 3, you are totally screwed a pretty big percentage of the time...
Maybe you could got to 18-19 lands with the acceration, but i think it is silly to risk such horrible manascrew.
Just my Oppinion, though I think I'm sticking to it
Thanks
EDH: WEight-and-a-half-tailsW
EDH: U/ Dralnu, Lich Lord B/
Extended:U/ Fish U/
4 browbeats are 2 many as many people have said before and i don't think you need mana acelraters in this deck, its fast enough without them and i would rather have burn or creatures instead of useless late game plays. i know a lot of you will say "this is an aggro deck, it doesn't have a late game" but sometimes you don't win as fast as you would like too.
and look around every once and a while you could miss it. - ferris bueller
Yea SSG is not nessary let alone that its pure card disadvantage for 1 mana.
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Thanks to PurpleD of Left Play Designs for this amazing banner!
Rest In Peace PolarBearGod
What I'm playing/building for casual:
Batman
Dragon's Errand
:symrg:Stoking the Flames:symgr:
Midsummer Night's Dream
[EDH] Oona, Queen of the Fae
You'll be living in a van down by the River Kelpie
And, in case I miss a land drop by turns 2 or 3, the Rite or SSG can supply this a little.
Well, maybe I can test something over SSG, but what am I missing that's worth running? I guess I'm already running the best burns in format...
UBB Rogues
UUB Faeries
RW Seismic Swans
RRR Control
Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. "God**** it Otto, you are an alcoholic." "God**** it Otto, you have Lupus" ... one of those two doesn't sound right.
Keldon Magaliths are all you need. Last week i was playing my Dralnu deck against a RDW with white splash for Lightning Helix and flying Skyknight guy (can't remember name) anyway i had stabalised with him being Hellbent with a Megaliths in play. I was on 7 and him 17 after being hit by my Teferi Mage of Zhalfir and I was just destroying/countering everything he threw at me. It looked like i was going to win the race, then he drew a SECOND Megaliths and i knew that was game.
Conclusion is Ghitu Encampment is worse than Keldon Magaliths as it is prone to more removal as there is a heap of them these days at instant speed.
Yea we understand why you run them. They just arn't needed seeing how nothing is very high on casting cost.
As for what to put in my sugestion is to look at other builds to see what you arn't runing and compair it to how your playing your deck and how to make it better.
The man lands turn into creatures. No other specifications with them. You just handle them like normal creatures and yes they do die in combat.
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
UBB Rogues
UUB Faeries
RW Seismic Swans
RRR Control
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
If you really want to get around CoPR or any other red hosers you might want to run Gathan Raiders or Zoetic Cavern.
Cop red is not in 10th
so this deck gets better