To me, if you want to go elves, you have to choose between ElfSwarm.dec or ElfControl.dec - either way, the lifegain doesn't boost either of these strategies, so I think it should go.
So, Elf Control - Masked Admirers is card draw, but sometimes I think it runs too slow. If it works for you, keep it.
I'd give Terror a body, and replace it with Shriekmaw - I honestly think Terror just isn't enough. Trying Nameless Inversion and Eyeblight's Ending can be really good, as well. Heck, you might even try Immaculate Magistrate + Hunter of Eyeblights (even though this is REALLY slow >.>, it could possibly give you some dominating (albeit risky) EOT board control.)
(but seriously, please don't run that last combo O.O)
-4 Essence Warden
-4 Gilt leaf Ambush
-1 Terror/Sudden Death
+4 Boreal Druid
+1 Stupor
+4 THoughtseize
I kinda think that should make it faster and with alot more discard.
while I do like your mods there are a few things I have a problem with. First off I would love a play set of thoughtseize but there ALITTLE!!!!!! high right now and if I see then at 10$ or so then I will just buy them. The druid is a welcome 1 drop, I may even go snow so I can use mouth's as well. I was thinking about running 2 or so champion and wanted to know what you think of that even though imperious perfect is much better and even if I can fit in 2 I will still run 4 perfect's.
That is what I thought (I have been trying to get thoughtseize too and I know its ridiculous.), still lose the cards I recommended and if you want you can try these changes to include packmaster.
3 Elvish Harbringer, and 1 Eyeblights Ending instead of 4 Thoughtseize
-1 Masked Admirers
-1 Land or Boreal Druid or Funeral Charm
+2 Wrens Run Packmaster
Consider Prowess of the Fair for after a wrath/damnation I would definently try to fit some in the deck or atleast side board. I like Shreikmaw instead of Terror though that seems to be a preference right now. It looks good but like Umezete said run Thoughseize errr.. if you can. It helps to rip the mass removal out of an opponent's hand or their Tarmogoyf considering every deck plays him. Also why no Wren's run Packmaster? If you have her out along with a prowess of the fair and any other elf, if they wrath/damnation you get 2 1/1's and what ever else you championed then your turn play Imperious Perfect. I've pulled that off quite often actually. Though it's your deck. Those are just my ideas.
I was thinking about the fair I think I will put them in you think its a 4 or a 3 of?
I'd run 4 since each Prowess of the Fair trigger seperately. The more you have out the more you actually want your opponent to wrath/damnation so you can just drop an Imperious Perfect next turn and swing for a lot due to the fact you had more guys than before. It's never really a dead card.
Fun fact: g/b Elves got 1st at pre-states. Oddly enough the only black spells it ran mainboard were Eye's Blight Ending and Nath of the Gilt-leaf. It also ran the green planeswalker (3 of) which might fit in your deck. Though I wouldn't know what to take out.
I'd run 4 since each Prowess of the Fair trigger seperately. The more you have out the more you actually want your opponent to wrath/damnation so you can just drop an Imperious Perfect next turn and swing for a lot due to the fact you had more guys than before. It's never really a dead card.
Fun fact: g/b Elves got 1st at pre-states. Oddly enough the only black spells it ran mainboard were Eye's Blight Ending and Nath of the Gilt-leaf. It also ran the green planeswalker (3 of) which might fit in your deck. Though I wouldn't know what to take out.
Definatly an impressive number of elves there. I kinda question the Eyeblight's Ending but then again if Elves remain in the less popular end of the spectrum it's nice enough. Shriekmaw could be good as a replacement as this deck seems like it will reach the upper end of the mana scale pretty quick... Though instant speed is good too... Still being a tribal instant seems like a problem vs Tarmo... I'd go with Maw probably.
*And that would make the deck almost entirely creatures and land (the exception being Garruk) which is kinda nifty.*
I would, though I guess it's a preference. I myself only run 8 non-creature spells maindeck 4 Prowess of the Fair and 4 Thorn of the Amethyst. Yeah I know those are more of a sideboard card but my meta is more control than aggro. Also if you look at the elf deck that got first notice they only have 7 non-creature spells. It's just better to run more creatures cause in my opinion on the games I've played Thorn (which needs to be atleast boarded) absolutely crippled most decks. That extra 1 mana hurts. I mean they have to wait an extra turn to wrath which can be game breaking. Try it out and see how it works though before saying that it wouldn't. Of course that would mean to put in more creatures.
Here is that's 1st place deck that was mentioned a post or two ago...
*Since no one took the time to post it here yet...*
I didn't post it cause I didn't know if it was against the rules to just go and post a decklist that wasn't yours onto another thread when it was already on one....so much I know. :/
This deck just gets shut down pre-board by Teferi's Moat. And post-board it becomes I hope I have an answer for Moat before they draw into their win-cons/mass removal.
I dunno..I just don't see this deck as viable..even IF it won a pre-states showdown.
I didn't post it cause I didn't know if it was against the rules to just go and post a decklist that wasn't yours onto another thread when it was already on one....so much I know. :/
Oh, I wasn't blaming you or anything. I just was making some random comment. I hope it wasn't taken too seriously.
As for posting lists: It's fine pretty much as long as you don't try taking credit for it (and even that isn't against the "rules" persay it's just not seen as a very nice thing to do). In fact I don't know if there really are any big "rules" to worry about on this forum. Just act as you would when you're in a "public" setting and you'll be fine.
This deck just gets shut down pre-board by Teferi's Moat. And post-board it becomes I hope I have an answer for Moat before they draw into their win-cons/mass removal.
I dunno..I just don't see this deck as viable..even IF it won a pre-states showdown.
That may be true but I haven't seen a ton of Moats recently have you? And you're in green anyway so why is an enchantment game ending again? That's not near as big a problem as some things I should think.
I, too, don't see the use of eyeblight's ending in this deck. It's certainly better to run, say, shriekmaw, terror to keep the instant speed, or even sudden death(with 8 dual lands, BB shouldn't be a problem)
Yeah I was considering all of those or maybe Thoughtseize to go with the discard Nath provides. It kinda has a "preemptive removal" aspect to it as well.
I'm not saying which is better, but Terror/Shriek have the whole "can't kill black creatures" thing going on. Probably more black creatures than elves in standard at the moment, and enough mono-black decks going around.
Very true. Still I think it's worth discussing as three mana removal is on the higher end and it might be worth seeing if a cheaper option would be worth it. I would still test the deck "as is" before making any changes regardless...
Elves is a pain in the ass with the Doran match up. The champion's forestwalk ability needs to be dealt with...as with most decks (the goyf meta call was an excellent one).
Eyeblight's Ending is especially effective against Doran, where as shriekmaw and Terror and Slaughterpact are not.
Elves is a great archetype...I hope to see it go far and get a real plan against control. Thorn of Amethyst & Prowess of the Fair seem like a good direction.
Oh, I wasn't blaming you or anything. I just was making some random comment. I hope it wasn't taken too seriously.
As for posting lists: It's fine pretty much as long as you don't try taking credit for it (and even that isn't against the "rules" persay it's just not seen as a very nice thing to do). In fact I don't know if there really are any big "rules" to worry about on this forum. Just act as you would when you're in a "public" setting and you'll be fine.
That may be true but I haven't seen a ton of Moats recently have you? And you're in green anyway so why is an enchantment game ending again? That's not near as big a problem as some things I should think.
Yeah I was considering all of those or maybe Thoughtseize to go with the discard Nath provides. It kinda has a "preemptive removal" aspect to it as well.
Just throwing things out there...
`Nim
If you haven't seen Moats, you haven't been paying attention. Everyone anywhere close to U/W is playing them. And yes, you're in green..so post-board you have 3 or 4 answers...but the U/W player already HAD answers maindeck and now they just board in gravy like Porphyry Nodes, Sunscour, Austere Command, etc, etc, etc. And please tell me your answer is Krosan Grip and not Naturalize...since the U/W player will look @ Naturalize and laugh.
And I'm confused as to how B gives you an answer to enchantments when you're only running 2 discard spells.
Although, admittedly..I'm hoping people DO put a lot more stock into Elves after seeing the tournament results...because the deck I'm running will have one less thing to worry about.
If you haven't seen Moats, you haven't been paying attention. Everyone anywhere close to U/W is playing them. And yes, you're in green..so post-board you have 3 or 4 answers...but the U/W player already HAD answers maindeck and now they just board in gravy like Porphyry Nodes, Sunscour, Austere Command, etc, etc, etc. And please tell me your answer is Krosan Grip and not Naturalize...since the U/W player will look @ Naturalize and laugh.
And I'm confused as to how B gives you an answer to enchantments when you're only running 2 discard spells.
Although, admittedly..I'm hoping people DO put a lot more stock into Elves after seeing the tournament results...because the deck I'm running will have one less thing to worry about.
Cheers,
Austin
Actually, I have been watching W/U Control pretty close over the last while (It's the deck I most want to play after LOR's release). Perhaps you could post a link or two to show how common place Moat has become? I mean just saying...
Also, some links talking about the rampent increase in Sunscour use would be interesting, that one I haven't seen mentioned in most lists...
Finally, regarding Black/Naturalize. Black does give you pinpoint discard which could very easily snag that five mana enchantment early and often. And what enchantment removal you use isn't all that important to discuss. Green has plenty. And more can be SBed if needed.
Actually, I have been watching W/U Control pretty close over the last while (It's the deck I most want to play after LOR's release). Perhaps you could post a link or two to show how common place Moat has become? I mean just saying...
It shows up in every T8. (M-league, starcity, here.) Not necessarily every T8 U/W deck, but its somewhere in every T8.
Basically Tribal is tempting people into non-zoo aggro (and aggro period), so the Moat hoses nicely. Even many R/G lists veer towards all green creatures.
First off I took out the discard, its nice but I need other things. Also black is abit heavier in this deck. First new card Midnight Charm its very useful for taking out those small creatures like bird and other mana elfs, also with 8 deathtouch creatures firststrike is great. I likr terror over the envoke due to the instant speed. Prowess of the fair is great with all the ***s running around. Sudden Death is a great card for control games (terferi). The deck runs better then it did before and I will try it at fnm this weekend.
You need to take out the midnight charms for thoughtseize. Also take out sudden death for some more discard, preferably stupor. And take out prowiss of the fair from main deck and put it into the sb for against ***/damnation. But besides that the deck looks good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This user's trading privileges have been suspended until May 3, 2009. Do not trade with him. —Annorax
IMHO in a deck like this I like the midnight charms because they give you more versatility. Sure you can’t pick out what you want to discard but you also don’t lose two life. Also late game thoughtsiezes aren’t nearly as good as they early on while the charm can still be used to kill off or tap that pesky blocker to help you get through.
4x Elvish Eulogist/Essence Warden
4x Wren’s Run Vanquisher
4x Imperious Perfect
4x Masked Admirers
2x Nath of the gilt-leaf
22 Creatures
3x Terror
3x Sudden Death
4x Gilt Leaf Ambush
3x Stupor
17 Spells
4x Llanowar Wastes
8x Forest
5x Swamps
21 Lands
Right now this is what I think of as a G/B elf deck with a bit of discard. I think it can do well,if anyone has some input that would be great
-4 Gilt leaf Ambush
-1 Terror/Sudden Death
+4 Boreal Druid
+1 Stupor
+4 THoughtseize
I kinda think that should make it faster and with alot more discard.
So, Elf Control - Masked Admirers is card draw, but sometimes I think it runs too slow. If it works for you, keep it.
I'd give Terror a body, and replace it with Shriekmaw - I honestly think Terror just isn't enough. Trying Nameless Inversion and Eyeblight's Ending can be really good, as well. Heck, you might even try Immaculate Magistrate + Hunter of Eyeblights (even though this is REALLY slow >.>, it could possibly give you some dominating (albeit risky) EOT board control.)
(but seriously, please don't run that last combo O.O)
while I do like your mods there are a few things I have a problem with. First off I would love a play set of thoughtseize but there ALITTLE!!!!!! high right now and if I see then at 10$ or so then I will just buy them. The druid is a welcome 1 drop, I may even go snow so I can use mouth's as well. I was thinking about running 2 or so champion and wanted to know what you think of that even though imperious perfect is much better and even if I can fit in 2 I will still run 4 perfect's.
3 Elvish Harbringer, and 1 Eyeblights Ending instead of 4 Thoughtseize
-1 Masked Admirers
-1 Land or Boreal Druid or Funeral Charm
+2 Wrens Run Packmaster
4x Thornweald Archer
4x Wren’s Run Vanquisher
4x Imperious Perfect
3x Masked Admirers
2x Nath of the gilt-leaf
21 Creatures
3x Terror
2x Profano Command
2x Sudden Death
4x Prowess of the fair
3x Stupor
17 Spells
4x Llanowar Wastes
8x Forest
5x Swamps
1x Urborg
21 Lands
I'd run 4 since each Prowess of the Fair trigger seperately. The more you have out the more you actually want your opponent to wrath/damnation so you can just drop an Imperious Perfect next turn and swing for a lot due to the fact you had more guys than before. It's never really a dead card.
Fun fact: g/b Elves got 1st at pre-states. Oddly enough the only black spells it ran mainboard were Eye's Blight Ending and Nath of the Gilt-leaf. It also ran the green planeswalker (3 of) which might fit in your deck. Though I wouldn't know what to take out.
Do you think I should use more creatures?
*Since no one took the time to post it here yet...*
Drue Dorsey's Elves
1st place, Star City Standard Open tournament
3x Boreal Druid
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Elvish Champion
2x Masked Admirers
4x Imperious Perfect
4x Thornweald Archer
2x Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
4x Wren's Run Vanquisher
3x Wren's Run Packmaster
4x Eyeblight's Ending
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
Lands:
2x Swamp
13x Forest
4x Gilt-Leaf Palace
4x Llanowar Wastes
3x Naturalize
4x Riftsweeper
4x Thorn of Amethyst
4x Prowess of the Fair
Definatly an impressive number of elves there. I kinda question the Eyeblight's Ending but then again if Elves remain in the less popular end of the spectrum it's nice enough. Shriekmaw could be good as a replacement as this deck seems like it will reach the upper end of the mana scale pretty quick... Though instant speed is good too... Still being a tribal instant seems like a problem vs Tarmo... I'd go with Maw probably.
*And that would make the deck almost entirely creatures and land (the exception being Garruk) which is kinda nifty.*
Anyhow...
`Nim
I would, though I guess it's a preference. I myself only run 8 non-creature spells maindeck 4 Prowess of the Fair and 4 Thorn of the Amethyst. Yeah I know those are more of a sideboard card but my meta is more control than aggro. Also if you look at the elf deck that got first notice they only have 7 non-creature spells. It's just better to run more creatures cause in my opinion on the games I've played Thorn (which needs to be atleast boarded) absolutely crippled most decks. That extra 1 mana hurts. I mean they have to wait an extra turn to wrath which can be game breaking. Try it out and see how it works though before saying that it wouldn't. Of course that would mean to put in more creatures.
I didn't post it cause I didn't know if it was against the rules to just go and post a decklist that wasn't yours onto another thread when it was already on one....so much I know. :/
I dunno..I just don't see this deck as viable..even IF it won a pre-states showdown.
Cheers,
Austin
Oh, I wasn't blaming you or anything. I just was making some random comment. I hope it wasn't taken too seriously.
As for posting lists: It's fine pretty much as long as you don't try taking credit for it (and even that isn't against the "rules" persay it's just not seen as a very nice thing to do). In fact I don't know if there really are any big "rules" to worry about on this forum. Just act as you would when you're in a "public" setting and you'll be fine.
That may be true but I haven't seen a ton of Moats recently have you? And you're in green anyway so why is an enchantment game ending again? That's not near as big a problem as some things I should think.
Yeah I was considering all of those or maybe Thoughtseize to go with the discard Nath provides. It kinda has a "preemptive removal" aspect to it as well.
Just throwing things out there...
`Nim
`Nim
Eyeblight's Ending is especially effective against Doran, where as shriekmaw and Terror and Slaughterpact are not.
Elves is a great archetype...I hope to see it go far and get a real plan against control. Thorn of Amethyst & Prowess of the Fair seem like a good direction.
If you haven't seen Moats, you haven't been paying attention. Everyone anywhere close to U/W is playing them. And yes, you're in green..so post-board you have 3 or 4 answers...but the U/W player already HAD answers maindeck and now they just board in gravy like Porphyry Nodes, Sunscour, Austere Command, etc, etc, etc. And please tell me your answer is Krosan Grip and not Naturalize...since the U/W player will look @ Naturalize and laugh.
And I'm confused as to how B gives you an answer to enchantments when you're only running 2 discard spells.
Although, admittedly..I'm hoping people DO put a lot more stock into Elves after seeing the tournament results...because the deck I'm running will have one less thing to worry about.
Cheers,
Austin
Actually, I have been watching W/U Control pretty close over the last while (It's the deck I most want to play after LOR's release). Perhaps you could post a link or two to show how common place Moat has become? I mean just saying...
Also, some links talking about the rampent increase in Sunscour use would be interesting, that one I haven't seen mentioned in most lists...
Finally, regarding Black/Naturalize. Black does give you pinpoint discard which could very easily snag that five mana enchantment early and often. And what enchantment removal you use isn't all that important to discuss. Green has plenty. And more can be SBed if needed.
~Nim
It shows up in every T8. (M-league, starcity, here.) Not necessarily every T8 U/W deck, but its somewhere in every T8.
Basically Tribal is tempting people into non-zoo aggro (and aggro period), so the Moat hoses nicely. Even many R/G lists veer towards all green creatures.
3x Boreal Driud
4x Thornweald Archer
4x Wren’s Run Vanquisher
2x Elvish Champion
4x Imperious Perfect
2x Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
23 Creatures
4x Terror
4x Prowess of the Fair
3x Sudden Death
16 Spells
4x Llanowar Wastes
4x Gilt-Leaf Palace
5x Swamp
8x Forest
21 Lands
First off I took out the discard, its nice but I need other things. Also black is abit heavier in this deck. First new card Midnight Charm its very useful for taking out those small creatures like bird and other mana elfs, also with 8 deathtouch creatures firststrike is great. I likr terror over the envoke due to the instant speed. Prowess of the fair is great with all the ***s running around. Sudden Death is a great card for control games (terferi). The deck runs better then it did before and I will try it at fnm this weekend.
Credit given to this dude High~Light Studios
Check out my h/w list
Currently Playing
The Rock GB
Doran Beats GBW
RGb BIG Mana GRB
RG Warriors GR