Have you ever seen a Nationals list with Forsee? A Regionals TOP eight list with Forsee? Please point me out if you have because I haven't.
Im sure your word is strictly better than a Pro's and we should all listen to you because your this amazing T2 guru. But untill then Don't cause petty arguments about what you, think is best for the deck. Because im quite sure you don't.
[Ownage]Ding! Quoted for truth. Story Circle and Foresee are garbage in this deck. Heck, Story Circe sucks in almost any deck.[/Ownage]
Infraction issued. This is trolling and you should know to not make posts like this by now.
I agree with darjarri, ive been watching this thread for a long time even before i got an account and i think that you need to be more open to other peoples thoughts and oponions Iycantivis, u think that just b/c u started the thread like two years ago when the deck was completly different that u know all of the right choices for the deck. ya, right.
also show me any T8 list with forsee it it, there are none, and even if there is one then the complusive ones outnumber it 1 milion to 1. and also you run story circle md, before COP: Red even left. story circle is bad MD and onlya sb card, and alot of the sideboards dont even run it anymore.
and last, complusive can net you up to three new cards if you alrady have a land in your hand not two, so that is more new cards than forsee. you think that just b/c u started the thread and you have made like a thousand posts ur a T2 angelfire pro. wrong.
complusive is better than forsee hands down and i think almost everyone on this thread agrees with me here. and also both cards are better than stroy circle, what a noob move, MD sheesh. u need to respect other peoples opinions before u state something.
Im sure your word is strictly better than a Pro's and we should all listen to you because your this amazing T2 guru. But untill then Don't cause petty arguments about what you, think is best for the deck. Because im quite sure you don't.
Yea and we should follow what you say why? Thats why 2 nubs took two headed pro tour. Yea pros are right all the time right? What did flores say about teachings deck that he released? Oh yea that it was garbage that he would never play it himself. Please continue to follow bad leaders.
So we are going to follow what the kewl kids do then? Yea unlike you sheep who follow the heard, I am going to think like the japanese to who inovate the format constantly thinking out side of whats "kewl" to run at the time. Just because the colective mind of sheeps agree don't make it right. My testing and tourney play with the deck prove that these card are PURELY BETTER. I have proof to back up what I'm saying with tourney results.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Yea and we should follow what you say why? Thats why 2 nubs took two headed pro tour. Yea pros are right all the time right? What did flores say about teachings deck that he released? Oh yea that it was garbage that he would never play it himself. Please continue to follow bad leaders.
So we are going to follow what the kewl kids do then? Yea unlike you sheep who follow the heard, I am going to think like the japanese to who inovate the format constantly thinking out side of whats "kewl" to run at the time. Just because the colective mind of sheeps agree don't make it right. My testing and tourney play with the deck prove that these card are PURELY BETTER. I have proof to back up what I'm saying with tourney results.
2 "nubs" didn't win a Pro Tour. They aren't noobs. Not even close. One of them, is even ranked #1 on MTGO Limited rating. They are both PTQ regulars, and broke the format. Tired of hearing it from Randy? Too bad. Here it is again: They broke the format. They aren't noobs.
Flores NEVER said Teachings was bad. In fact, it's his kind of deck; Slow, methodical, and can't win until turn 400. Not even mentioning he ran it at a PTQ... Heezy, who he's best buds with, even played it. He was 100% behind him on that. The only thing he complained about was that Heezy wasn't running 4 Chroniclers.
Let's hear some REAL tesing results then, hm? A deck that runs only 23 land can't afford to constantly mulligan to 3 land hands. Oh, and FNM doesn't count.
Evidently my draws seem to be broken because I don't mull much if at all. Though I have been told my consistant opening hand 3 land a signet and a forsee is not very probable but it happens for me all the time.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
I was here in the pre-nationals of Israel with my Angelfire and got second (20 boosters), I wanted to thank you for the help you gave me about the deck, espcialy about SB and Loxodon Warhammer MD (in the beginning, i thought it was redicouls to play it but then I thought to give this a chance and it was just good, it won me some games here).
hellow everyone i was hoping someone could post here the best SB for angel fire and good list of MD 'cous that nationals at my country is coming and maybe u can help me.
If I were to play Angelfire at Nationals, I would play a list like mine, or similar:
Im assuming you all notice the (rather obvious) changes
could someone please input their opinions on this or similar lists...i find it very interesting (and awesome, as i was an avid rwb firemane/arena player)
i just thought this deserved a little bit of attention and (considering the pilot) it can't be "that" bad
i'm going to test it a little later, i'll get back to everyone when it does and i hope to see some responses by then
Just be sure to stay clear of allot of the immature bickering going on in this thread, and stick to proven MD structures, not the rants of ignorance.
what happend to detritvore MD?
when i first read the thread, everybody said it is essential( even a must) 1 MD versus controls and 2/3 SB.
Also, is fireman angel 1 instead of 1 hellkite is that essential?
And why the SB has about 6 cards versus agrro, as far as i played the deck not a single aggro conserend me(except from the rack if you count it as one), i have only about 3 cards in SB Against aggro decks,and also teferi's moat is better than story circle?
Why does a list with firemanes has a worse matchup vs control then a "regular" list?
I can see the firemanes return every upkeep, pretty hard for control to keep up with that, no? Or am i wrong? Plz clearily;)
And i do notice as well that Osyp's list misses chronics which are funky vs control^^
You bring up a valid point, in fact Firemane Angel is GREAT against control, it blocks just about everything and survives (Teferi/Hierarch/Stuffz), it even blocks AoD's and Bogardan Hellkites if you have a Sulfur Elemental out!
peace
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Attach a drill to your crotch and pierce the heavens!
No, Rakdos Is very very bad against this deck. Becouse they dont have that much Creatures but the burn. Its either Lifegain or Story Circle that you need in the side .
NO STORY CIRCLE. Angelfire should wreck Rakdos, Helix kills everything but Solifuge, and nets you life, Lightning Angel blocks and kills most of their creatures short of them burning her. Court Hussar is really good because it can block stuff and either survive, or take down a Solifuge etc. Hellkite really messes up Rakdos as it can often reset their board etc. Rakdos does run a large amount of burn, so Remanding those key Chars they need to remove your generally beefier creatures is detrimental to winning a Rakdos match up. So ya Rakdos is very very bad against this deck.
A good rakdos deck runs limited amount of Creatures. If i usualy play against them Wrath of God sits useless in my hand or i *** a single creature. They just beat me with Fanatic a few times, and then aim all the burn to my face. I just cant do anything, becouse there arnt counters, remand just stalls for a turn, yes sometimes it helps as i can aggro them with Angel, but its veryvery close always.
I usualy win if i can get 2-3 helix wich rarely happens.
Er. I'm aware that Rakdos runs smaller creatures, but not necessarily a limited amount. It depends on the version, some feature more creatures, others more burn. It's not hard to beat Rakdos, as if they don't get you into burn/Demonfire range in a few turns, it's quite easy for them to lose. Wrathing the board when they have 2-3 creatures like Rakdos Guildmage/Bob/etc is fine for obvious reasons. Your job isn't to aggro them though, your job is to survive to a point in which it is highly unlikely that the Rakdos deck will be able to win the game, it's ok to take a few points here and there from them early on while you play things like Court Hussar and Research, but mid game you should be controlling the board with Angels/Wraths/Helices/etc
Yea and we should follow what you say why? Thats why 2 nubs took two headed pro tour. Yea pros are right all the time right? What did flores say about teachings deck that he released? Oh yea that it was garbage that he would never play it himself. Please continue to follow bad leaders.
So we are going to follow what the kewl kids do then? Yea unlike you sheep who follow the heard, I am going to think like the japanese to who inovate the format constantly thinking out side of whats "kewl" to run at the time. Just because the colective mind of sheeps agree don't make it right. My testing and tourney play with the deck prove that these card are PURELY BETTER. I have proof to back up what I'm saying with tourney results.
Since theyre such "nubs" and your such ubar pr0, why didn't you win the event?
If you want to keep losing with Forsee maindeck be my guest. That card isn't good unless its a one of, and even then your not going to want to draw into it. At 4 mana I'd be wanting to draw into a lightning angel than that crap. Whats good about compulsive is that on turn three, you can play a signet and comp. research. The following turn you can drop an angel and another signet. (if you played one on t2.)
i've been flopping back and forth with those two cards and demonfire as to how many i run...considering that most of the deck is auto-ins, you'd think there wouldn't be too many other choices for hte MD...but these three cards have been annoying trying to nail down the numbers for
I've been running with two Hellkites (and two Demonfires) for a while, they've been very good to me. However, our meta has sped up considerably as of late, so I'm thinking about going down to one, but I couldn't tell you what I'd put in its place. As long as your meta isn't too terribly fast, two is a good number. It's not that big of a deal if I have to pitch one early to Research or ship it to the bottom with Hussar, since I know I've got that other one around somewhere.
4 azorius signet
2 boros signet
4 remand
4 lightning helix
4 compulsive research
3 faith's fetters
4 wrath of god
1 demonfire
23 land assorted amongst duals and utility
not very original list...but i dont think you CAN make this deck original...my meta has sped up a lot...only control players are Me, RWB firemane(yes ino that's weird...but it's actually good in our meta) and a few Solar Flare
i used to run 2 hellkite 3 demonfire a LONG time ago, 4 fetters in the board, now it's sped up, so i can only really afford 1 hellkite and 1 demonfire, hte 3 fetters is because about 90% of the decks i play against have treetop villages and it is good in general
Since theyre such "nubs" and your such ubar pr0, why didn't you win the event?
If you want to keep losing with Forsee maindeck be my guest. That card isn't good unless its a one of, and even then your not going to want to draw into it. At 4 mana I'd be wanting to draw into a lightning angel than that crap. Whats good about compulsive is that on turn three, you can play a signet and comp. research. The following turn you can drop an angel and another signet. (if you played one on t2.)
Yea I didn't play in the event thats why
Plus I never said I was pro so don't put words in my mouth.
Yea so many losses from play forsee thats why the deck keeps wining with different pilots.
And please explain to me how on turn 3 with 3 land you expect to play a signet and a compulsive?
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
If you play a signet turn 2 you can compulsive and play another signet (but not in that order) Turn 3. That does require an insane draw, don't count on it.
I had the complete mirror match tonight though. We both had green dragonshield sleeves, the same incinerate mat, the Lorwyn lands (his initials were TJ, mine are JT even).
Our first few turns
T1=tapped Hallowed Fountain
T2=Flagstones (both fetch foundry)
T3=Court Hussar
Untill turn 4 both of our boards were identical, then I went defensive with Wraths untill I stuck a Numot then busted next turn.
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The difference between being funny and being annoying is how often you get punched in the face....
I am running an aggroish version right now (pretty similar to the one posted by Jiaozy few pages back). Actually they are similar because i am have no remands MD.
I found extremely difficult to beat touch-blink. That's why I am considering 4 Remands SB. I know it might sound fool (why don't use them MD??) but that is the way i am going now.
Also I am testing Molten Disaster x 3 MD and is totally gamebreaking against most of the decks played in my meta right now. (touch-blink, Omnichord).
Osyp's deck was a fine meta call, given how much Rakdos there was, but simply inferior to regular Angelfire (given the better game it has against control, retaining pretty much the same % against aggro) or Blink-Touch.
As for a list, this is what I'm currently playing:
I'm still not sure about the SB but some numbers of Pithing Needle, Disenchant, Fetters, Detritivore, Crypts, Take Possession, Condemn, Boom/Bust, Cryoclasm should be in there...
How does your list fare against Blink-Touch, and how do standard lists deal with it? Also, why no remand in your list? Remand just seems to generate way to much tempo, and gives you yet another option in the 2cc slot, which our deck lacks early plays.
Remand is MVP against blink touch (remand Blink FB). The posted list is strong but it has a more aggroish approach. Remand is needed to make the match favorable against blink.
I've recently toyed around with not including helixes in my list...It's been working pretty well. If you could choose only one of the following, would you run remand or helix?
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[Ownage]Ding!
in almost any deck.[/Ownage]Infraction issued. This is trolling and you should know to not make posts like this by now.
-Lesurgo
http://webapp.wizards.com/ratings.aspx?action=search_member&personid=2119616&brandid=1
Playing Rune Snags post-Lorwyn is like voting Democrat
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also show me any T8 list with forsee it it, there are none, and even if there is one then the complusive ones outnumber it 1 milion to 1. and also you run story circle md, before COP: Red even left. story circle is bad MD and onlya sb card, and alot of the sideboards dont even run it anymore.
and last, complusive can net you up to three new cards if you alrady have a land in your hand not two, so that is more new cards than forsee. you think that just b/c u started the thread and you have made like a thousand posts ur a T2 angelfire pro. wrong.
complusive is better than forsee hands down and i think almost everyone on this thread agrees with me here. and also both cards are better than stroy circle, what a noob move, MD sheesh. u need to respect other peoples opinions before u state something.
Yea and we should follow what you say why? Thats why 2 nubs took two headed pro tour. Yea pros are right all the time right? What did flores say about teachings deck that he released? Oh yea that it was garbage that he would never play it himself. Please continue to follow bad leaders.
So we are going to follow what the kewl kids do then? Yea unlike you sheep who follow the heard, I am going to think like the japanese to who inovate the format constantly thinking out side of whats "kewl" to run at the time. Just because the colective mind of sheeps agree don't make it right. My testing and tourney play with the deck prove that these card are PURELY BETTER. I have proof to back up what I'm saying with tourney results.
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
2 "nubs" didn't win a Pro Tour. They aren't noobs. Not even close. One of them, is even ranked #1 on MTGO Limited rating. They are both PTQ regulars, and broke the format. Tired of hearing it from Randy? Too bad. Here it is again: They broke the format. They aren't noobs.
Flores NEVER said Teachings was bad. In fact, it's his kind of deck; Slow, methodical, and can't win until turn 400. Not even mentioning he ran it at a PTQ... Heezy, who he's best buds with, even played it. He was 100% behind him on that. The only thing he complained about was that Heezy wasn't running 4 Chroniclers.
Let's hear some REAL tesing results then, hm? A deck that runs only 23 land can't afford to constantly mulligan to 3 land hands. Oh, and FNM doesn't count.
--R.P.
http://webapp.wizards.com/ratings.aspx?action=search_member&personid=2119616&brandid=1
Playing Rune Snags post-Lorwyn is like voting Democrat
:jam:Banned from Forums
Magicthegathering.com
ICBM's Forums
Team Unknown Stars'
Magic.TCG.Player
Also responsible for the collapse of Top8Magic's and ICBM's "Add Comment" section.
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
If I were to play Angelfire at Nationals, I would play a list like mine, or similar:
Lands:
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Nimbus Maze
3 Plains
2 Island
1 Boros Garrison
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Steam Vents
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Urza's Factory
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
Creatures:
4 Court Hussar
2 Aeon Chronicler
1 Firemane Angel
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Numot, the Devastator
4 Lightning Angel
Spells:
2 Boros Signet
2 Azorius Signet
1 Izzet Signet
4 Remand
4 Wrath of God
4 Compulsive Research
4 Lightning Helix
2 Demonfire
1 Loxodon Warhammer (this slot could be another signet, Aeon Chronicler, or Demonfire.)
SB:
2 Disenchant
2 Pull from Eternity (this slot could be Pithing Needle as well)
3 Faith's Fetters
2 Teferi's Moat
2 Take Possession
4 Aven Riftwatcher
Just be sure to stay clear of allot of the immature bickering going on in this thread, and stick to proven MD structures, not the rants of ignorance.
It is a standard list...with one major change
1 Izzet Boilerworks
2 Shivan Reef
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Adarkar Wastes
4 Lightning Angel
4 Firemane Angel
4 Lightning Helix
4 Compulsive Research
4 Remand
4 Wrath of God
3 Boros Signet
3 Izzet Signet
3 Demonfire
3 Detritivore
3 Boom // Bust
3 Condemn
2 Magus of the Tabernacle
2 Aura of Silence
2 Flashfreeze
Im assuming you all notice the (rather obvious) changes
could someone please input their opinions on this or similar lists...i find it very interesting (and awesome, as i was an avid rwb firemane/arena player)
i just thought this deserved a little bit of attention and (considering the pilot) it can't be "that" bad
i'm going to test it a little later, i'll get back to everyone when it does and i hope to see some responses by then
=later=
~monty python~
what happend to detritvore MD?
when i first read the thread, everybody said it is essential( even a must) 1 MD versus controls and 2/3 SB.
Also, is fireman angel 1 instead of 1 hellkite is that essential?
And why the SB has about 6 cards versus agrro, as far as i played the deck not a single aggro conserend me(except from the rack if you count it as one), i have only about 3 cards in SB Against aggro decks,and also teferi's moat is better than story circle?
You bring up a valid point, in fact Firemane Angel is GREAT against control, it blocks just about everything and survives (Teferi/Hierarch/Stuffz), it even blocks AoD's and Bogardan Hellkites if you have a Sulfur Elemental out!
peace
^-- And this is exactly why these forums are for whiny little babies who can't deal with the fact that they are wrong. So they go cry to a mod. Lawl.
-TEAM REVOLUTION
Thank god no one plays Omnichord at my FNM because:
1. It's freakin' expensive, and at a casual tournament scene such as FNM you don't see very many expensive decks.
2. It's rotating in about 3 months, another HUGE reason why that deck is rarely played.
Although yes, I understand that it is still played everywhere, I at least don't have to see that deck rear it's ugly and annoying head.
peace
^-- And this is exactly why these forums are for whiny little babies who can't deal with the fact that they are wrong. So they go cry to a mod. Lawl.
NO STORY CIRCLE. Angelfire should wreck Rakdos, Helix kills everything but Solifuge, and nets you life, Lightning Angel blocks and kills most of their creatures short of them burning her. Court Hussar is really good because it can block stuff and either survive, or take down a Solifuge etc. Hellkite really messes up Rakdos as it can often reset their board etc. Rakdos does run a large amount of burn, so Remanding those key Chars they need to remove your generally beefier creatures is detrimental to winning a Rakdos match up. So ya Rakdos is very very bad against this deck.
Er. I'm aware that Rakdos runs smaller creatures, but not necessarily a limited amount. It depends on the version, some feature more creatures, others more burn. It's not hard to beat Rakdos, as if they don't get you into burn/Demonfire range in a few turns, it's quite easy for them to lose. Wrathing the board when they have 2-3 creatures like Rakdos Guildmage/Bob/etc is fine for obvious reasons. Your job isn't to aggro them though, your job is to survive to a point in which it is highly unlikely that the Rakdos deck will be able to win the game, it's ok to take a few points here and there from them early on while you play things like Court Hussar and Research, but mid game you should be controlling the board with Angels/Wraths/Helices/etc
Since theyre such "nubs" and your such ubar pr0, why didn't you win the event?
If you want to keep losing with Forsee maindeck be my guest. That card isn't good unless its a one of, and even then your not going to want to draw into it. At 4 mana I'd be wanting to draw into a lightning angel than that crap. Whats good about compulsive is that on turn three, you can play a signet and comp. research. The following turn you can drop an angel and another signet. (if you played one on t2.)
Forsee. Not good. In this deck. At all. Period.
Trade thread!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=556274
or
http://darjarri.com
how many Bogardan hellkites do most ppl run
same with Fetters
i've been flopping back and forth with those two cards and demonfire as to how many i run...considering that most of the deck is auto-ins, you'd think there wouldn't be too many other choices for hte MD...but these three cards have been annoying trying to nail down the numbers for
I've been running with two Hellkites (and two Demonfires) for a while, they've been very good to me. However, our meta has sped up considerably as of late, so I'm thinking about going down to one, but I couldn't tell you what I'd put in its place. As long as your meta isn't too terribly fast, two is a good number. It's not that big of a deal if I have to pitch one early to Research or ship it to the bottom with Hussar, since I know I've got that other one around somewhere.
4 lightning angel
4 court hussar
2 aeon chronicler
1 hellkite
4 azorius signet
2 boros signet
4 remand
4 lightning helix
4 compulsive research
3 faith's fetters
4 wrath of god
1 demonfire
23 land assorted amongst duals and utility
not very original list...but i dont think you CAN make this deck original...my meta has sped up a lot...only control players are Me, RWB firemane(yes ino that's weird...but it's actually good in our meta) and a few Solar Flare
i used to run 2 hellkite 3 demonfire a LONG time ago, 4 fetters in the board, now it's sped up, so i can only really afford 1 hellkite and 1 demonfire, hte 3 fetters is because about 90% of the decks i play against have treetop villages and it is good in general
Yea I didn't play in the event thats why
Plus I never said I was pro so don't put words in my mouth.
Yea so many losses from play forsee thats why the deck keeps wining with different pilots.
And please explain to me how on turn 3 with 3 land you expect to play a signet and a compulsive?
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
I had the complete mirror match tonight though. We both had green dragonshield sleeves, the same incinerate mat, the Lorwyn lands (his initials were TJ, mine are JT even).
Our first few turns
T1=tapped Hallowed Fountain
T2=Flagstones (both fetch foundry)
T3=Court Hussar
Untill turn 4 both of our boards were identical, then I went defensive with Wraths untill I stuck a Numot then busted next turn.
I remember when Jester's Cap was more expensive than Underground Sea
I'm not running any demonfires but I do have a warhammer.
The hammer has won more then its fair share of games for me. Especially when its being weld by a Lightning Angel or Akroma...
Thanks to Spiderboy4 of High~light Studios for the awesome sig.
A wise man talks when he has something to say. A fool talks because he has to say something.
Looking for a card alterer that takes commissions specifically on a blank playmat. PM me please.
I found extremely difficult to beat touch-blink. That's why I am considering 4 Remands SB. I know it might sound fool (why don't use them MD??) but that is the way i am going now.
Also I am testing Molten Disaster x 3 MD and is totally gamebreaking against most of the decks played in my meta right now. (touch-blink, Omnichord).
any thoughts?
How does your list fare against Blink-Touch, and how do standard lists deal with it? Also, why no remand in your list? Remand just seems to generate way to much tempo, and gives you yet another option in the 2cc slot, which our deck lacks early plays.