I played the Sultai vers. this weekend at 2 different PPTQ's. Made Top 8 at one losing to U/W control first round and then Sunday's was abysmal, 1-3, no marvel games and really bad spins. Really considering moving to the Temur Flamecaller version.
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Current Decks Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BWGUB Sultai Constrictor BUG Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG Modern : GB Golgari Elves BGGR Atarka Goblins RG Pauper : W Heroic WGB Delve BG
Radekas is obviously right about Sphinx, but we don't win with Instants and Sorceries, so it's not as good for us as it is in the Control on Control match-up. I've had a lot of good fortune with Elder Deep Fiend. The tap ability is a cast trigger, so I just emerge it for a Refiner or Whirler at end of their tun and tap all their blue sources. That usually leaves an opening I can squeeze a Marvel into and then (hopefully) Ulamog. I also board in a bunch of Dispels/Negates for G2/3.
I too love DFE, it only costs 4 with a refiner or Whirler in play, can also turn on a Kozilek's return in the grave, which should increase in number after zombies taking down the Pro tour.
Chandra, Flamecaller is everything the deck ever wanted and every Marvel deck should play 4 IMO.
The weird stuff:
- I'm splashing white for Cast Out and a miser's Nahiri, the Harbinger in the sideboard. I like both cards quite a lot, and started with 2/1 main/side split for both, but found that Cast Out's usefulness was a bit high-variance to want additional SB copies, and that Nahiri could be very mediocre when I don't have a good target for her -8. They're good but it's questionable as to whether or not they're worth the mana trouble.
- I have a miser's Tormenting Voice because I didn't have enough 2s after cutting Servant of the Conduit. Servant was very low-impact and prone to getting swept up by Chandra. Voice lets you cycle a dead card early and try to dig a little deeper toward your engine. I don't think Voice is very good either, but it at least has a much higher floor than Servant.
- I have a miser's Nissa, Steward of Elements because she's friggin powerful. +2 Scry 2 is awesome, and getting to fix your Marvel hits is just free upside. The threat of the ult is super real, too.
- In the SB I'm fighting Zombies with a couple Radiant Flames and Magma Spray. The hope is that Cryptbreaker won't get out of hand, if it doesn't then playing like a RUG Control deck should bridge into our own major finishers. Mardu I'm not 100% on; no one really knows what the Mardu decks want to do anymore. If they're leaning on slowing down and playing extraction effects, boarding into planeswalkers and juking that should be efficient. For controlling decks you can bring in damn near the whole board minus the red removal; the rest are threats and they're all very good.
So I have been making a shift over to Temur Marvel, and have been testing the Flamecaller version which I think is great, always loved that card and if its playable I'm playing it. Anyways, last night I had some thoughts about a transitional sideboard. I played a lot of Temur Tower last season, and normally we would sideboard into resilient/grindy creatures, or longtusk cub if that was your thing. My idea was to run a sideboard with something like 4Tireless Tracker(which already has a spot in the sideboard regardless), 3Bristling Hydra, 4Glorybringer to turn into something more along the lines of the Temur Energy list that went 8-2 at the PT. I expect to see a lot of zombies, because that has already been the case, and letting them take turn 3 off to Dispossess and blank sounds great. The problem I see is it only leaves 4 slots open in the sideboard, and they probably belong to Negate.
Andrea Mengucci wrote an article I read a little bit ago on ChannelFireball about Mardu Blue, and alluded to an opponent that did something similar to this and blew him out, and has me thinking I may be on to something there. My fear is loosing out on sideboard cards, mainly for the mirror. The idea is to board out the entire Marvel plan and bring in the creatures, and those creatures all have their own individual merit in different matches, but the mirror definitely would bother me without more than just Negate to disrupt them. Sweltering Suns would also be lost, so is 4 Flamecaller enough to beat zombies? Any other thoughts, suggestions?
I think you want to have two resilient threats and a couple of Tireless Tracker in your 75 to diversify against Dispossess on Marvel or Lost Legacy on Ulamog. I'm favoring Chandra, Flamecaller and a small suite of 1-of planeswalkers for this, but Bristling Hydra is also good.
I think I don't want to go whole-ham with a 10+ card transformational board, I rather like just playing Chandra in the main and having five SB slots for this
How do you all think this deck will adapt once Ulamog rotates in September?
Depends on what comes out in Hour of Devastation and Ixalan. Seems likely that a Nicol Bolas card gets printed in HOU, with the question being whether or not it's sufficiently game-breaking on turn 4 to keep the archetype around. The rest of the shell is Kaladesh-block cards for the most part, importantly including the awesome mana that enables the whole thing.
How do you all think this deck will adapt once Ulamog gets banned in three months?
That's a really interesting question, and like Ragnawar said, it will be very dependent on what big cards get printed in the next few sets. Looking through KLD block, I've found there aren't many big and exciting hits. You've got some gearhulks, but nothing as impactful as any of the eldrazi. Maybe an Elder Deep-Fiend build could be passable*, but we're pretty dry on good hits in the format. A value Marvel plan may also work, as six-drop 'walkers on turn 4 are usually pretty good.
Is anyone going to do an actual Primer for this forum, or is it going to stay as "Hey, I want to build a deck around this cool mythic". The archetype just put 4 decks into the top 8 of a Pro Tour, as well as having 3 distinct color pie options and in Temur there are 2-3 different routes to build through. Or, are we just going to speculate on 6 month's from now what's going to replace Ulamog? I have done pimers in the past but I just don't have any extra time to write one up right now.
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Current Decks Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BWGUB Sultai Constrictor BUG Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG Modern : GB Golgari Elves BGGR Atarka Goblins RG Pauper : W Heroic WGB Delve BG
I'm still having a hard time locking down a list. Mostly in the Servant slot. I kind of hate that card and I know some here have cut it. I was testing with just pushing the trackers to the main to replace it. Felt fine honestly, great a lot of the time actually to be able to dig. Every list I can find is still on Servants though, and now I am second guessing that decision. Its also notable that I see trackers are sided in almost every match-up, and I understand its the strongest card in the board probably so when you cut your weak cards its natural to bring it in, however I still think this makes a case for MBing it. Note: I am on 4 Flamecaller version so 4 trackers makes the deck more top-heavy than it already is, maybe a couple pieces of interaction would be more suitable. The problem I see is that more spot removal seems trivial right now, I'm on 3 Sweltering Suns in the 75 on top of Chandra, and if we are looking at consistent turn 2 interaction I think the mana would have to be re-worked.(edit: I meant for blue interaction, namely censor) Meh, I'll figure it out but am open to suggestion.
I'm in the same place with Servant in the Flamecaller build, a 2/2 Bear and 2 energy isn't really what you want to be doing at any point in the game. The list is super heavy at the 2 drop and feel like a couple Magma Spray's and possibly some Tracker's. There's a few list that run 2 main. And to be honest I'm still of the idea that a Sultai vers is the strongest / meta resistant version with the different angles it takes. The real issue is that Chandra, Flamecaller is just far and away a better hit off Marvel early game and can potentially end a game as fast as Ulamog or prolong the game long enough to re Marvel or hard cast Ulamog. Mid to late game Liliana, Death's Majesty reanimation ability can be crushing especially if you start chaining Ishkanah's. I'm really working a solid list just haven't decided what routes to take, card denial or countering, just not a lot of flexible slots. I'll post a list soon as it's a little bit in disarray atm.
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Current Decks Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BWGUB Sultai Constrictor BUG Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG Modern : GB Golgari Elves BGGR Atarka Goblins RG Pauper : W Heroic WGB Delve BG
I took the following list to a couple of Game Days. The first was smaller (12 people) and more local. I went 4-0 there, beating a BW Zombies, Mardu Vehicles, mono-W Humans and BW Control. The other had 34 people where I went 3-0-2. I drew a ramp deck, beat UW Control, drew UB Control, beat a UR Mechanized Production brew and beat WR Exert Midrange.
The curve seems top-heavy and I want more twos, maybe replace the Servant and another card with Censor, Anticipate or a R removal spell. Confiscation Coup was great from the sideboard. World Breaker was good. I am considering Void Winnower, as it was devastating against me.
Is anyone going to do an actual Primer for this forum, or is it going to stay as "Hey, I want to build a deck around this cool mythic". The archetype just put 4 decks into the top 8 of a Pro Tour, as well as having 3 distinct color pie options and in Temur there are 2-3 different routes to build through. Or, are we just going to speculate on 6 month's from now what's going to replace Ulamog? I have done pimers in the past but I just don't have any extra time to write one up right now.
I'll try to power through one tomorrow afternoon/evening.
The only thing about which I'm still on the fence is Servant of the Conduit. I think it's right, but I want to play some amount of Censor and Glimmer of Genius instead in order to improve in the mirror and against control decks.
I love where this list is right now against Zombies, Mardu, and other Marvel decks. Not as hot about its position against Ux control and more off-the-radar decks like New Perspectives. Will post more tomorrow.
Guys, I need some help with sideboarding. Could you enlighten me what's good and bad in mirror / mardu? I am playing temur version with big Chandras. Also I saw a lot of Confiscation Coup in the sideboards - in which matchups it should come in?
Guys, I need some help with sideboarding. Could you enlighten me what's good and bad in mirror / mardu? I am playing temur version with big Chandras. Also I saw a lot of Confiscation Coup in the sideboards - in which matchups it should come in?
Thanks!
Will cover in detail tomorrow, but here's the short of it:
- Mardu has no endgame that can compete with yours, you just have to make it to turn 7 or so at a stable life total and with a reasonable board and you should win. Your random bodies brickwall Mardu's ground pounders except for Gideon, so it's ok to spend a little extra energy on Thopters to kill Gideon than you normally would in this deck. Kill Heart of Kiran ASAP and basically save Harnessed Lightning nearly exclusively for HoK because it's their best threat against you. Postboard they get slower with Transgress and Dispossess, so board in Trackers and just clown them with Trackers and Chandra FC. Also get good at t4 Ulamog, that's your best route to victory here too.
- The mirror is all about Marvel into Ulamog primarily. You bring in Manglehorn to blow up Marvels or Puzzleknots and slow down future Marvels, Confiscation Coup to steal Marvels or even resolved Ulamogs. Plan B when that isn't happening is Tireless Tracker, so again utilize Confiscation Coup to steal runaway Trackers, leave in Harnessed Lightning to gat Tracker before it starts going off. Chandra FC and the grimy energy dudes don't matter, neither does Puzzleknot, so that's where you find room for your 10-11 sb cards lol. As always git gud at t4 Ulamog kiddo.
Another direction I am tinkering with for the Sultai build. Swapping out Servants for Glint-Sleeve Siphoner, 2/2 Mana bear Vs 2/1 Menace Agressive Energy/CA engine. With the severe down tick in the number of Ballista's and Liliana LH, an x/1 might be ok to MD again. Scarab Feast is something out of the side that I am trying out to see how it is against Zombies, Gearhulk Control and opposing Delirium decks.
Aetherworks Marvel Combo is a combo deck that attempts to use Aetherworks Marvel's activated ability to cast Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger as early as turn 4. Ulamog tends to end games very quickly after he resolves and is completely overpowered when cast at the deck's earliest possible time, turn 4. The remainder of the deck is an energy midrange shell that attempts to assemble Marvel with enough energy to activate its ability immediately, and which contains ways to buy time to accomplish this task and to win the game without ever casting Ulamog off of Marvel. This can, occasionally, include casting it from hand, if drawn. While there are other variations on Marvel decks, notably BUG Delirium and Bant Control, that have proven to be reasonably competitive takes on the archetype, this primer is devoted to RUG/Temur Marvel, thus far the most successful take of them all.
Card Choices
Aetherworks Marvel: The card that started it all. For the low price of six energy, one card, four mana, and a good luck ritual, you too can cast an unbeatable Eldrazi Titan on turn four in Standard. Play four.
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger:The payoff for Marvel. Originally discarded from Kaladesh-era Marvel decks due to casting difficulties, a January 2017 ban of Emrakul from Standard left Ulamog as the premier Eldrazi Titan to be cast off of Marvel. You will develop the biggest love/hate relationship with Ulamog and you'll LIKE it. Builds vary on the exact number of Ulamog to play: some people play 2-3 in order to give themselves a realistic chance of getting turn-4 Ulamog while reducing the odds of drawing Ulamog, which is usually terrible; other people play the full four copies in order to maximize their chances of hitting Ulamog off of Marvel, regarding the -win% from a higher likelihood of drawing uncastable Ulamogs as an acceptable downside. This primer takes the latter position and strongly recommends four copies.
Attune with Aether: In tandem with Aether Hub, provides the best manabase in Standard, not close. For the relatively low price of playing a couple of Forests and green fastlands, you have an all-in-one tricolor mana fixer, Hub fuel, and one-third of a Marvel activation once your mana is fully online. Play four.
Harnessed Lightning: You don't need a lot of removal spells to handle business, just one really good one, and R&D delivered here, big time. This card is the closest thing we're going to get to a two-mana unconditional removal spell for quite some time, and it slots into this deck perfectly, so enjoy it while it's here. Play four.
Woodweaver's Puzzleknot: It looks like part of an unassuming draft-chaff cycle. In fairness, it is, but it's real good draft-chaff. The lifegain keeps aggro decks from getting underneath you, and the card conveniently pays for a Marvel activation all by itself. Some players have shaved on the fourth Puzzleknot on occasion because it can be underwhelming in the mirror and in your bad matchups, but your game 1 is so warped around Marvel, no matter how you build your deck, that you can't really afford to skimp on activation efficiency. Play four.
Rogue Refiner: It blocks, it attacks planeswalkers and control opponents pretty well, it makes two energy and oh yeah, it replaces itself with a card. Great deal for 3 mana. Tends to be a very "replacement-level" card; you'll probably cut some copies postboard in a lot of situations where Marvel activations aren't as paramount to your winning the game, since a cantripping 3/2 for 3 is a good "rate" but the random body doesn't actually advance your victory criterion all that much. However, in your combo-heavy game 1s, Refiner does everything you could ever realistically expect your 3-drop to do. Play four.
Whirler Virtuoso: In Standard seasons past, Virtuoso was the backup plan of a lot of energy-dependent combo decks, ranging from OG Marvel with Emrakul to 4c Copycat. Virtuoso's light has faded a bit since the last time Marvel was great; the format is significantly slower and the mirror comes down to Marvel spins much more frequently than Thopter-beats backup plans, especially given the emergence of Chandra, Flamecaller to combat aggressive decks, which has substantial splash damage against Virtuoso beats. Nonetheless, there will be times where you just don't draw that Marvel and you rip a Virtuoso with 1-2 dozen energy counters available and you'll be glad you had him. Plus, he does make half a Marvel activation by himself! This primer can't recommend the full four copies in good faith, although some people play four copies to great success. Definitely play at least one, and probably 2-3.
Servant of the Conduit: This guy compares pretty favorably to the likes of Sylvan Caryatid and Rattleclaw Mystic from recent seasons past. 2-mana rainbow dorks rarely get to be 2/2s as well; Servant can rumble with the format's early beaters a lot more effectively than you'd ever guess from looking at it. Marvel saves it from being a dead draw late like most dorks are, since the energy ETB trigger is 1/3 of an activation by itself. Still, Marvel doesn't utilize extra mana very well, since it's more of a "cheating" than "ramping" deck, and it's very easy to resolve Servant on 2 and play out a game where the extra mana didn't matter. This card is optional but a significant asset.
Glimmer of Genius: Solid roleplayer in any nonaggressive deck. Glimmer is especially useful in game 1 as a "bridge" card when you've made some early plays but haven't found Marvel yet. It's a bit slow for aggressive matchups sometimes, but it's never dead, and provides some significant selection on top of being an instant-speed draw-2. Adding 2 energy is just cake. Some builds have opted for zero Glimmer, but they are pretty rare these days. This primer observes that zero copies of Glimmer can occasionally be correct, but recommends two copies by default, and the full playset if you are playing a more controlling take on Marvel.
Dynavolt Tower: This card has occasionally seen play as a 1-2 of in Marvel decks as an alternative energy outlet and generator, but even the more controlling builds of Marvel have tended not to play Towers in them this season, opting for Torrential Gearhulk instead. This primer concedes that the card may be interesting in a controlling Marvel build but recommends zero copies.
Chandra, Flamecaller: Chandra has spent most of her Standard life in relative obscurity, pushed out of the format by aggro decks with some form of resilience to her -X ability (Collected Company decks, followed by Smuggler's Copter/Heart of Kiran decks). However, the rise of Zombies -- an aggressive deck soft to her -X ability with good to great matchups against the aggressive decks resilient to Chandra -- has given Chandra a chance to shine. All Marvel decks play an "alternate hit" that costs around six mana and ends games quickly, in order to make their Marvel spins a greater threat to the opponent and in order to have a "hit" off Marvel that is realistically castable in a normal Magic game. Chandra does both these things, but she also complements Ulamog and Marvel very nicely. Her 0 ability is at its best in Marvel: you can pitch useless Ulamogs that you drew and try to get real cards, and when you have either a large energy supply or an energy sink, but not both, you can dig to the missing piece extremely efficiently. Chandra also headhunts rival planeswalkers pretty effectively, shoring up a weakness to resolved PWs in games where you don't have an early Ulamog. This primer absolutely recommends at least two maindeck copies, and endorses up to four.
Torrential Gearhulk: The "other" alternate win condition of choice. Gearhulk plays pretty well in Marvel builds that are willing to use their flex slots on instants to maximize its value. This primer prefers Chandra in the same slot, since they tend to compete for space in the deck, and since Chandra does so much for the deck, while Gearhulk tends to be more of a "value card" than an engine piece for Marvel. Gearhulk versions of Marvel tend to lean less on the actual combo with Marvel and try to play a more normal game; whether or not reducing the variance (bad and good) intrinsic in the Marvel strategy is worthwhile is an unresolved question. Marvel decks which choose to play Gearhulk tend to play 1-2 copies; this primer recommends zero.
Tireless Tracker: Tracker nearly always shows up in the Marvel sideboard, but has since made its way into the maindeck in some builds. Tracker is an excellent Plan B for a deck that is very resource-hungry and sometimes needs to draw a lot of lands to win. The format is also slowing down to the point where you can realistically draw Tracker against aggressive decks and have a chance. This primer makes no recommendations as to how many copies of Tracker to play in the maindeck, but recommends at least two copies, and possibly a full playset, in the entire 75 of every Marvel deck.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance: 4-mana Chandra has historically been an excellent alternate win condition in energy-combo decks, but has suffered to a significant extent from the rise of Zombies, since she cannot easily defend herself. She is also prone to occasional clunk in combination with Flamecaller, or with reactive cards, which are needed to play Torrential Gearhulk. This combination makes her difficult to play in the maindeck since one or the other six-drop is so essential to making Marvel as strong as it needs to be. With that said, she's an excellent threat against control decks, and she synergizes strategically with Flamecaller, in that one Chandra is good in the matchups where the other is bad, and vice versa: Flamecaller can be too clunky in the mirror and against control, where Torch of Defiance is great, while Torch of Defiance is inefficient against aggressive decks where Flamecaller shines. This primer recommends sideboarding her if you play her, and recommends 2-3 copies if so.
Magma Spray: Iffy in the maindeck unless you expect a lot of Mardu or Zombies. Great sideboard card. Play 2 sideboard, maindeck contingent on expected metagame but lean toward none.
Censor: The main alternative to Servant of the Conduit in Gearhulk versions of Marvel. Play 3-4 maindeck if you aren't playing Servant, since you need a turn-2 play of some kind. Recommend zero if you play Servant and don't play Gearhulk.
Dissenter's Deliverance: Maindecking one copy of this card isn't bad if you have the space, both to mise with Marvel (and possibly double-up with Gearhulk) and because its cycling cost is very easy to satisfy. Hard to recommend more than a couple if your metagame doesn't have a lot of Vehicles however.
Negate: Reasonable to maindeck right now, mandatory in the 75 somewhere. If you decide to maindeck, you can probably afford three copies in the 75; recommend limiting SB to two Negates whether or not you maindeck any copies.
Sweltering Suns/Radiant Flames: Maindecking a 3-mana sweeper is okay if you expect a lot of aggressive decks, or if you expect to be the controlling player in most of your matchups. This one is a true tossup overall, since Flames is a lot easier to cast, but Suns can be cast off Marvel; however, for the maindeck, Suns is the only reasonable choice due to cycling. Play two in your 75, maybe a third for the SB if you maindeck 1-2 copies.
Ceremonious Rejection: Brutally efficient in the mirror, but you almost never want to draw two copies. Rejection is an excellent fun-of for the board.
Manglehorn: Essential in the mirror match - even blowing up an opposing Puzzleknot or Clue token is acceptable since those two artifacts sacrifice for value if allowed to do so, but the main attraction lies in keeping your opponents off of Marvel for one turn even if it resolves. That gives you a chance to use an artifact removal spell to clean up the Marvel before it could do anything, or even steal it (more on that next). Manglehorn also gives you very good splash damage against Toolcraft Exemplar + Heart of Kiran decks. Play 2 in the board.
Confiscation Coup: Quickly proving to be a crucial mirror-breaker. Coup is the only realistic answer to a resolved Ulamog in the Marvel mirror, and it's more than just an answer - it can easily swing an entire game from unwinnable to unloseable. Coup also steals Marvel, which is awesome in tandem with Manglehorn, allowing you not only to take out an opposing Marvel before it can spin but also giving you an extra Marvel to start spinning yourself, making it that much harder for opponents to slog through your Marvels before they die to Ulamog. Coup is also not dead if the game shifts to everyone's Plan B, since stealing a big Tireless Tracker that's dominating the game is frequently the best response available. Coup is also a house against Winding Constrictor decks, and while that deck's metagame share has diminished (and while that deck wasn't a bad matchup anyway), having the extra sideboard bomb essentially for free is very nice. Play 2.
Played this deck and have a record of 2-2 using the Torrential Gearhulk-Censor build (Lost to both RG decks, RG Monsters and another RG with Hazoret and Fiery Temper). How can we beat a Rhonas then Bristling Hydra next turn?
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
I too love DFE, it only costs 4 with a refiner or Whirler in play, can also turn on a Kozilek's return in the grave, which should increase in number after zombies taking down the Pro tour.
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looks like it's time to move Marvel back to the Proven section
4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Rogue Refiner
3 Whirler Virtuoso
Planeswalkers (5)
4 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Nissa, Steward of Elements
Artifacts (8)
4 Aetherworks Marvel
4 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
Instants (6)
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 Magma Spray
Enchantments (2)
2 Cast Out
4 Attune with Aether
1 Tormenting Voice
Lands (23)
4 Aether Hub
4 Botanical Sanctum
5 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Island
1 Plains
4 Spirebluff Canal
1 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
3 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Magma Spray
2 Radiant Flames
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
Chandra, Flamecaller is everything the deck ever wanted and every Marvel deck should play 4 IMO.
The weird stuff:
- I'm splashing white for Cast Out and a miser's Nahiri, the Harbinger in the sideboard. I like both cards quite a lot, and started with 2/1 main/side split for both, but found that Cast Out's usefulness was a bit high-variance to want additional SB copies, and that Nahiri could be very mediocre when I don't have a good target for her -8. They're good but it's questionable as to whether or not they're worth the mana trouble.
- I have a miser's Tormenting Voice because I didn't have enough 2s after cutting Servant of the Conduit. Servant was very low-impact and prone to getting swept up by Chandra. Voice lets you cycle a dead card early and try to dig a little deeper toward your engine. I don't think Voice is very good either, but it at least has a much higher floor than Servant.
- I have a miser's Nissa, Steward of Elements because she's friggin powerful. +2 Scry 2 is awesome, and getting to fix your Marvel hits is just free upside. The threat of the ult is super real, too.
- In the SB I'm fighting Zombies with a couple Radiant Flames and Magma Spray. The hope is that Cryptbreaker won't get out of hand, if it doesn't then playing like a RUG Control deck should bridge into our own major finishers. Mardu I'm not 100% on; no one really knows what the Mardu decks want to do anymore. If they're leaning on slowing down and playing extraction effects, boarding into planeswalkers and juking that should be efficient. For controlling decks you can bring in damn near the whole board minus the red removal; the rest are threats and they're all very good.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
Andrea Mengucci wrote an article I read a little bit ago on ChannelFireball about Mardu Blue, and alluded to an opponent that did something similar to this and blew him out, and has me thinking I may be on to something there. My fear is loosing out on sideboard cards, mainly for the mirror. The idea is to board out the entire Marvel plan and bring in the creatures, and those creatures all have their own individual merit in different matches, but the mirror definitely would bother me without more than just Negate to disrupt them. Sweltering Suns would also be lost, so is 4 Flamecaller enough to beat zombies? Any other thoughts, suggestions?
I think I don't want to go whole-ham with a 10+ card transformational board, I rather like just playing Chandra in the main and having five SB slots for this
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
Play Chandra, it's fine.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
Depends on what comes out in Hour of Devastation and Ixalan. Seems likely that a Nicol Bolas card gets printed in HOU, with the question being whether or not it's sufficiently game-breaking on turn 4 to keep the archetype around. The rest of the shell is Kaladesh-block cards for the most part, importantly including the awesome mana that enables the whole thing.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
That's a really interesting question, and like Ragnawar said, it will be very dependent on what big cards get printed in the next few sets. Looking through KLD block, I've found there aren't many big and exciting hits. You've got some gearhulks, but nothing as impactful as any of the eldrazi.
Maybe an Elder Deep-Fiend build could be passable*, but we're pretty dry on good hits in the format. A value Marvel plan may also work, as six-drop 'walkers on turn 4 are usually pretty good.Here's hoping the new Bolas is broken af.
*EDF rotates at the same time, nevermind.
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Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
4x Aether Hub
4x Blooming Marsh
3x Botanical Sanctum
2x Evolving Wilds
4x Forest
1x Island
2x Lumbering Falls
2x Swamp
Planeswalker (3)
2x Liliana, Death's Majesty
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Creature (15)
1x Demon of Dark Schemes
3x Ishkanah, Grafwidow
4x Rogue Refiner
4x Servant of the Conduit
3x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Dissenter's Deliverance
4x Fatal Push
Sorcery (5)
4x Attune with Aether
1x Traverse the Ulvenwald
Enchantment (3)
3x Vessel of Nascency
Artifact (7)
4x Aetherworks Marvel
3x Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
2x Bounty of the Luxa
2x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Coax from the Blind Eternities
3x Negate
3x Tireless Tracker
2x To the Slaughter
2x Yahenni's Expertise
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
4 Aether Hub
2 Botanical Sanctum
5 Forest
2 Game Trail
1 Island
2 Lumbering Falls
2 Mountain
1 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
4 Spirebluff Canal
Creatures
1 Servant of the Conduit
4 Rogue Refiner
1 Tireless Tracker
3 Whirler Virtuoso
1 World Breaker
4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Attune with Aether
1 Dissenter's Deliverance
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
4 Aetherworks Marvel
3 Glimmer of Genius
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Nissa's Renewal
3 Negate
2 Sweltering Suns
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Confiscation Coup
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Sphinx of the Final Word
2 World Breaker
The curve seems top-heavy and I want more twos, maybe replace the Servant and another card with Censor, Anticipate or a R removal spell. Confiscation Coup was great from the sideboard. World Breaker was good. I am considering Void Winnower, as it was devastating against me.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I'll try to power through one tomorrow afternoon/evening.
Most recent list from me:
4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Whirler Virtuoso
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Rogue Refiner
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Chandra, Flamecaller
Artifacts (8)
4 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
4 Aetherworks Marvel
Instants (6)
2 Negate
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Attune with Aether
Lands (23)
1 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
2 Game Trail
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Aether Hub
5 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Island
1 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Dispel
2 Magma Spray
2 Manglehorn
2 Sweltering Suns
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Confiscation Coup
The only thing about which I'm still on the fence is Servant of the Conduit. I think it's right, but I want to play some amount of Censor and Glimmer of Genius instead in order to improve in the mirror and against control decks.
I love where this list is right now against Zombies, Mardu, and other Marvel decks. Not as hot about its position against Ux control and more off-the-radar decks like New Perspectives. Will post more tomorrow.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
Thanks!
Will cover in detail tomorrow, but here's the short of it:
- Mardu has no endgame that can compete with yours, you just have to make it to turn 7 or so at a stable life total and with a reasonable board and you should win. Your random bodies brickwall Mardu's ground pounders except for Gideon, so it's ok to spend a little extra energy on Thopters to kill Gideon than you normally would in this deck. Kill Heart of Kiran ASAP and basically save Harnessed Lightning nearly exclusively for HoK because it's their best threat against you. Postboard they get slower with Transgress and Dispossess, so board in Trackers and just clown them with Trackers and Chandra FC. Also get good at t4 Ulamog, that's your best route to victory here too.
- The mirror is all about Marvel into Ulamog primarily. You bring in Manglehorn to blow up Marvels or Puzzleknots and slow down future Marvels, Confiscation Coup to steal Marvels or even resolved Ulamogs. Plan B when that isn't happening is Tireless Tracker, so again utilize Confiscation Coup to steal runaway Trackers, leave in Harnessed Lightning to gat Tracker before it starts going off. Chandra FC and the grimy energy dudes don't matter, neither does Puzzleknot, so that's where you find room for your 10-11 sb cards lol. As always git gud at t4 Ulamog kiddo.
HTH
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
4x Aether Hub
4x Blooming Marsh
2x Botanical Sanctum
2x Evolving Wilds
4x Forest
1x Island
2x Lumbering Falls
3x Swamp
Sorcery (5)
4x Attune with Aether
1x Traverse the Ulvenwald
Planeswalker (2)
2x Liliana, Death's Majesty
1x Demon of Dark Schemes
4x Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
2x Ishkanah, Grafwidow
1x Noxious Gearhulk
4x Rogue Refiner
3x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Instant (5)
1x Dissenter's Deliverance
4x Fatal Push
Enchantment (4)
1x Oath of Jace
3x Vessel of Nascency
Artifact (7)
4x Aetherworks Marvel
3x Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
1x Dispel
2x Dispossess
3x Negate
2x Scarab Feast
3x Tireless Tracker
2x To the Slaughter
2x Yahenni's Expertise
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
Aetherworks Marvel: The card that started it all. For the low price of six energy, one card, four mana, and a good luck ritual, you too can cast an unbeatable Eldrazi Titan on turn four in Standard. Play four.
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger: The payoff for Marvel. Originally discarded from Kaladesh-era Marvel decks due to casting difficulties, a January 2017 ban of Emrakul from Standard left Ulamog as the premier Eldrazi Titan to be cast off of Marvel. You will develop the biggest love/hate relationship with Ulamog and you'll LIKE it. Builds vary on the exact number of Ulamog to play: some people play 2-3 in order to give themselves a realistic chance of getting turn-4 Ulamog while reducing the odds of drawing Ulamog, which is usually terrible; other people play the full four copies in order to maximize their chances of hitting Ulamog off of Marvel, regarding the -win% from a higher likelihood of drawing uncastable Ulamogs as an acceptable downside. This primer takes the latter position and strongly recommends four copies.
Attune with Aether: In tandem with Aether Hub, provides the best manabase in Standard, not close. For the relatively low price of playing a couple of Forests and green fastlands, you have an all-in-one tricolor mana fixer, Hub fuel, and one-third of a Marvel activation once your mana is fully online. Play four.
Harnessed Lightning: You don't need a lot of removal spells to handle business, just one really good one, and R&D delivered here, big time. This card is the closest thing we're going to get to a two-mana unconditional removal spell for quite some time, and it slots into this deck perfectly, so enjoy it while it's here. Play four.
Woodweaver's Puzzleknot: It looks like part of an unassuming draft-chaff cycle. In fairness, it is, but it's real good draft-chaff. The lifegain keeps aggro decks from getting underneath you, and the card conveniently pays for a Marvel activation all by itself. Some players have shaved on the fourth Puzzleknot on occasion because it can be underwhelming in the mirror and in your bad matchups, but your game 1 is so warped around Marvel, no matter how you build your deck, that you can't really afford to skimp on activation efficiency. Play four.
Rogue Refiner: It blocks, it attacks planeswalkers and control opponents pretty well, it makes two energy and oh yeah, it replaces itself with a card. Great deal for 3 mana. Tends to be a very "replacement-level" card; you'll probably cut some copies postboard in a lot of situations where Marvel activations aren't as paramount to your winning the game, since a cantripping 3/2 for 3 is a good "rate" but the random body doesn't actually advance your victory criterion all that much. However, in your combo-heavy game 1s, Refiner does everything you could ever realistically expect your 3-drop to do. Play four.
Whirler Virtuoso: In Standard seasons past, Virtuoso was the backup plan of a lot of energy-dependent combo decks, ranging from OG Marvel with Emrakul to 4c Copycat. Virtuoso's light has faded a bit since the last time Marvel was great; the format is significantly slower and the mirror comes down to Marvel spins much more frequently than Thopter-beats backup plans, especially given the emergence of Chandra, Flamecaller to combat aggressive decks, which has substantial splash damage against Virtuoso beats. Nonetheless, there will be times where you just don't draw that Marvel and you rip a Virtuoso with 1-2 dozen energy counters available and you'll be glad you had him. Plus, he does make half a Marvel activation by himself! This primer can't recommend the full four copies in good faith, although some people play four copies to great success. Definitely play at least one, and probably 2-3.
Servant of the Conduit: This guy compares pretty favorably to the likes of Sylvan Caryatid and Rattleclaw Mystic from recent seasons past. 2-mana rainbow dorks rarely get to be 2/2s as well; Servant can rumble with the format's early beaters a lot more effectively than you'd ever guess from looking at it. Marvel saves it from being a dead draw late like most dorks are, since the energy ETB trigger is 1/3 of an activation by itself. Still, Marvel doesn't utilize extra mana very well, since it's more of a "cheating" than "ramping" deck, and it's very easy to resolve Servant on 2 and play out a game where the extra mana didn't matter. This card is optional but a significant asset.
Glimmer of Genius: Solid roleplayer in any nonaggressive deck. Glimmer is especially useful in game 1 as a "bridge" card when you've made some early plays but haven't found Marvel yet. It's a bit slow for aggressive matchups sometimes, but it's never dead, and provides some significant selection on top of being an instant-speed draw-2. Adding 2 energy is just cake. Some builds have opted for zero Glimmer, but they are pretty rare these days. This primer observes that zero copies of Glimmer can occasionally be correct, but recommends two copies by default, and the full playset if you are playing a more controlling take on Marvel.
Dynavolt Tower: This card has occasionally seen play as a 1-2 of in Marvel decks as an alternative energy outlet and generator, but even the more controlling builds of Marvel have tended not to play Towers in them this season, opting for Torrential Gearhulk instead. This primer concedes that the card may be interesting in a controlling Marvel build but recommends zero copies.
Chandra, Flamecaller: Chandra has spent most of her Standard life in relative obscurity, pushed out of the format by aggro decks with some form of resilience to her -X ability (Collected Company decks, followed by Smuggler's Copter/Heart of Kiran decks). However, the rise of Zombies -- an aggressive deck soft to her -X ability with good to great matchups against the aggressive decks resilient to Chandra -- has given Chandra a chance to shine. All Marvel decks play an "alternate hit" that costs around six mana and ends games quickly, in order to make their Marvel spins a greater threat to the opponent and in order to have a "hit" off Marvel that is realistically castable in a normal Magic game. Chandra does both these things, but she also complements Ulamog and Marvel very nicely. Her 0 ability is at its best in Marvel: you can pitch useless Ulamogs that you drew and try to get real cards, and when you have either a large energy supply or an energy sink, but not both, you can dig to the missing piece extremely efficiently. Chandra also headhunts rival planeswalkers pretty effectively, shoring up a weakness to resolved PWs in games where you don't have an early Ulamog. This primer absolutely recommends at least two maindeck copies, and endorses up to four.
Torrential Gearhulk: The "other" alternate win condition of choice. Gearhulk plays pretty well in Marvel builds that are willing to use their flex slots on instants to maximize its value. This primer prefers Chandra in the same slot, since they tend to compete for space in the deck, and since Chandra does so much for the deck, while Gearhulk tends to be more of a "value card" than an engine piece for Marvel. Gearhulk versions of Marvel tend to lean less on the actual combo with Marvel and try to play a more normal game; whether or not reducing the variance (bad and good) intrinsic in the Marvel strategy is worthwhile is an unresolved question. Marvel decks which choose to play Gearhulk tend to play 1-2 copies; this primer recommends zero.
Tireless Tracker: Tracker nearly always shows up in the Marvel sideboard, but has since made its way into the maindeck in some builds. Tracker is an excellent Plan B for a deck that is very resource-hungry and sometimes needs to draw a lot of lands to win. The format is also slowing down to the point where you can realistically draw Tracker against aggressive decks and have a chance. This primer makes no recommendations as to how many copies of Tracker to play in the maindeck, but recommends at least two copies, and possibly a full playset, in the entire 75 of every Marvel deck.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance: 4-mana Chandra has historically been an excellent alternate win condition in energy-combo decks, but has suffered to a significant extent from the rise of Zombies, since she cannot easily defend herself. She is also prone to occasional clunk in combination with Flamecaller, or with reactive cards, which are needed to play Torrential Gearhulk. This combination makes her difficult to play in the maindeck since one or the other six-drop is so essential to making Marvel as strong as it needs to be. With that said, she's an excellent threat against control decks, and she synergizes strategically with Flamecaller, in that one Chandra is good in the matchups where the other is bad, and vice versa: Flamecaller can be too clunky in the mirror and against control, where Torch of Defiance is great, while Torch of Defiance is inefficient against aggressive decks where Flamecaller shines. This primer recommends sideboarding her if you play her, and recommends 2-3 copies if so.
Magma Spray: Iffy in the maindeck unless you expect a lot of Mardu or Zombies. Great sideboard card. Play 2 sideboard, maindeck contingent on expected metagame but lean toward none.
Censor: The main alternative to Servant of the Conduit in Gearhulk versions of Marvel. Play 3-4 maindeck if you aren't playing Servant, since you need a turn-2 play of some kind. Recommend zero if you play Servant and don't play Gearhulk.
Dissenter's Deliverance: Maindecking one copy of this card isn't bad if you have the space, both to mise with Marvel (and possibly double-up with Gearhulk) and because its cycling cost is very easy to satisfy. Hard to recommend more than a couple if your metagame doesn't have a lot of Vehicles however.
Negate: Reasonable to maindeck right now, mandatory in the 75 somewhere. If you decide to maindeck, you can probably afford three copies in the 75; recommend limiting SB to two Negates whether or not you maindeck any copies.
Sweltering Suns/Radiant Flames: Maindecking a 3-mana sweeper is okay if you expect a lot of aggressive decks, or if you expect to be the controlling player in most of your matchups. This one is a true tossup overall, since Flames is a lot easier to cast, but Suns can be cast off Marvel; however, for the maindeck, Suns is the only reasonable choice due to cycling. Play two in your 75, maybe a third for the SB if you maindeck 1-2 copies.
Ceremonious Rejection: Brutally efficient in the mirror, but you almost never want to draw two copies. Rejection is an excellent fun-of for the board.
Manglehorn: Essential in the mirror match - even blowing up an opposing Puzzleknot or Clue token is acceptable since those two artifacts sacrifice for value if allowed to do so, but the main attraction lies in keeping your opponents off of Marvel for one turn even if it resolves. That gives you a chance to use an artifact removal spell to clean up the Marvel before it could do anything, or even steal it (more on that next). Manglehorn also gives you very good splash damage against Toolcraft Exemplar + Heart of Kiran decks. Play 2 in the board.
Confiscation Coup: Quickly proving to be a crucial mirror-breaker. Coup is the only realistic answer to a resolved Ulamog in the Marvel mirror, and it's more than just an answer - it can easily swing an entire game from unwinnable to unloseable. Coup also steals Marvel, which is awesome in tandem with Manglehorn, allowing you not only to take out an opposing Marvel before it can spin but also giving you an extra Marvel to start spinning yourself, making it that much harder for opponents to slog through your Marvels before they die to Ulamog. Coup is also not dead if the game shifts to everyone's Plan B, since stealing a big Tireless Tracker that's dominating the game is frequently the best response available. Coup is also a house against Winding Constrictor decks, and while that deck's metagame share has diminished (and while that deck wasn't a bad matchup anyway), having the extra sideboard bomb essentially for free is very nice. Play 2.
<<Incomplete WIP>>>
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG