It's a little more 'ramp' than 'aggro' I guess, but I like the curve here and the energy cards help your versatility. I feel that Chandra, Torch of Defiance is too good not to play since does things we want: ramp, removal and reach. I considered Nissa, Vital Force but she seems more suited to sideboard in vs control. 22 land feels right when almost half of our deck can be cast off of 3 mana, considering the ramp and the Attune with Aethers and Chandra, but might be too greedy or too much.
I think the biggest problem I have with Electrostatic Pummeler is that he dies to Liliana, however the wombo-combo with pump spells is great. Yea we have Blossoming Defense, but is it enough to protect it ?
You can also throw out the energy counters to make it a 2/2 and save it from Liliana. Not exactly a value play, but it gets you there if you have spare energy from other cards, as you should have.
Pummeler's ceiling is completely bonkers. I goldfished a bit with the Kenji list, and it easily and consistently attacks for uncanny amounts of trample damage turn four. You slap something like Larger Than Life+Blossoming Defense (7 power trample) or Uncaged Fury+Built to Smash (5 power trample double strike), then throw out three energy counters to double its P/T and attack for 14 and 20 respectively in the examples provided. Between extra counters from Brawler, Attune and Hub you can very often double it twice, which just wins on the spot no matter what they block with. That said, goldfishing is goldfishing, and in real life it is a three mana creature that dies to mostly anything. But it goes to show that while it is a risky card to play, the payoff is very much there, so I believe the strategy is worth testing.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
You can also throw out the energy counters to make it a 2/2 and save it from Liliana. Not exactly a value play, but it gets you there if you have spare energy from other cards, as you should have.
Correct me if I am wrong, but since Liliana's ability last until your next turn instead of until end of turn, shouldn't it Pummeler died at the end of turn ? Or I am missing some rules here ?
You are correct. Pummeler dies here.
We have very similar lists. The only thing I'd consider cutting is Ulrich for the 3rd and 4th Gearhulk. Ulrich has the potential of being a removal spell but it's never at the right time given the format of vehicles.
Because you should be the biggest stompy deck, you really only need to kill things like Skysovereign, Kalitas, Copter, or large Lieutenants. Ulrich does nothing to solve the vehicle problem and doesn't help you attack Gideon any better than Gearhulk does. On top of that, Gearhulk dodges Revolutionary Rebuff, which the flash and control mages are jamming.
Ulrich is very good against Spirits though so it could be considered as a SB slot vs. the UWx flash menace.
I think Chandra might be a trap and don't recommend her.
With all the ramp you currently have anyways i would try out the Chandra from oath, she has been a huge staple in a ton of decks and seems strong in the current meta.
Ulvenwald captive also seems like a bad fit, the deck wants to be aggressive and it is a rather bad topdeck.
Lathnu Hellion is a good card but it doesn't fit in well with cards like the new chandra and ulvenwald captive.
What i would personally add is tireless tracker, it is just a solid card and she will give you the grinding power you likely need against some decks. Maybe it is only a sideboard card though.
Verdurous gearhulk is absurd and probably too good not to play it, but i will try to test Ulrich in that slot too.
He has a similar effect in the turn you play him and if you can consitently flip him then he will be at least as good as the gearhulk.
With how the meta currently is i expect it will be easy for us to flip him.
Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter is also on my radar.
with all those aggro decks the body is not useless and once our ramp kicks in the abilities are actually insane.
With all that being said i still feel like the biggest weakness of your list is smuggler's copter.
You have no way of blocking or killing it, which will be a huge problem in tons of matchups.
Sadly there are almost no options available aside from sideboard cards.
The idea behind the Captive is to have a ramp creature that isn't dead in the late game because you can invest mana into it to make it relevantly sized. It seemed better to me than the other mana-producing creature options but I may be overlooking something.
As you say, my plan to deal with the Smuggler's Copter is to play sideboard hate for it.
Tireless Tracker may be better than Lathnu Hellion for this list as you say. My thought process was that in a deck that ramps through mana creatures rather than playing extra lands, the Tracker won't grow as quickly since we're making a lot fewer clues. The Hellion also lets me keep the midrange-aggro feel that I'm aiming for, but that could very well be nonsense.
Heads up everyone, Nicholas Borgmeyer got 2nd with a G/R energy list at the StarCityGames.com Invitational Qualifier in Bristol. There is also a G/R Gearhulk that placed 8th at the same even, if any one is interested in that.
Heads up everyone, Nicholas Borgmeyer got 2nd with a G/R energy list at the StarCityGames.com Invitational Qualifier in Bristol. There is also a G/R Gearhulk that placed 8th at the same even, if any one is interested in that.
i like that G/R energy decks so far have been not reliant on Smuggler's Copter.
also, the guy used Nature's Way as removal and way to give his creatures trample. pretty clever, in my opinion, so that his Bristling Hydras and Lathnu Hellions can do two things. kind of lackluster when those two creatures are not around, though there's Blossoming Defense to pump up smaller creatures.
Heads up everyone, Nicholas Borgmeyer got 2nd with a G/R energy list at the StarCityGames.com Invitational Qualifier in Bristol. There is also a G/R Gearhulk that placed 8th at the same even, if any one is interested in that.
i like that G/R energy decks so far have been not reliant on Smuggler's Copter.
also, the guy used Nature's Way as removal and way to give his creatures trample. pretty clever, in my opinion, so that his Bristling Hydras and Lathnu Hellions can do two things. kind of lackluster when those two creatures are not around, though there's Blossoming Defense to pump up smaller creatures.
Here is my version of G/R Energy. I was wondering if I could get some feedback, in order to improve the deck. I was thinking of adding Arlinn Kord, but I think she'll probably die to Smuggler's Copter way to much.
Here is my version of G/R Energy. I was wondering if I could get some feedback, in order to improve the deck. I was thinking of adding Arlinn Kord, but I think she'll probably die to Smuggler's Copter way to much.
You're deck looks very similar to the one I've built! Arlinn Kord was in my deck for the last few incarnations and she doesn't really cut it for me. Especially since Bristling Hydra seems like a great card in that slot if we are going the energy route. My last deck had no 4 drop creatures in it and it definitely seemed to be a hindrance for me. I used to play Nissa, Voice of Zendikar in the deck and found her pretty useful. There are times when dropping her in to -2 and give counters to all creatures allows you keep swinging all out on an opponent. Kessig Prowler did some work for me in my last version of the deck. However, I took it out to include 4 copies of Servant of the Conduit. I feel like ramping into a Bristling Hydra or Verdurous Gearhulk a turn early will win games. Or drop a Copter plus another two drop on turn 3. It's slower turns 1-2 on attacks, but you can really get going with a ramp card turns 4-6.
This deck only recently got energy involved into the equation. I feel that this archetype has some great things to offer. It's pleased me in my limited play testing. My version of the deck is more midrange than aggro, and focusing on making sure Verdurous Gearhulk hits the field as often and early as possible.
I've included Smuggler's Copter in the deck. It does great in play testing. The fact that it dodges sorcery speed removal is incredible. I like that it's so cheap and can turn 2 drops into a more significant threat later in the game. I'm surprised I haven't seen more lists using it! You can drop a Gearhulk, tap it to crew the copter, then drop a bunch of tokens on the copter.
Eldritch Evolution is a 2 of in my deck. Is there a reason more decks don't run it? Sure, it can be countered, but you can sideboard out games 2/3 for Blossoming Defense instead vs. control matchups.
Any feedback on this deck would be awesome! It's less focused on energy development, more just r/g good stuff. I'm wondering about the inclusion of Hanweir Garrison. It is an army in a can and overwhelms the opponent quickly if it can attack twice. What do you think of him?
I did some testing with the Kenji list (previous page) last night, I`ll keep referring to it as Energy Boost. Here are some early takeaways, note that these are all first impressions after just a handful of matches:
1) The more I played, the more I realized that this pump heavy build is pretty far away from a straight aggro deck. It definitely feels more like a combo deck, like Atarka Red, and the more I played towards the plan of killing with one or two huge blows, the more likely I was to win. Energy Boost might not belong in this thread at all, which is kind of strange, considering how it plays so many of the same cards. If and when this thread starts to agree on an established aggro/midrange build, I`ll probably take this deck to a separate thread.
2) It needs more trample. I often had everything I needed to win if I could only get through chump blockers, and if all Built To Smash does is spend a card to kill a blocker, I`d rather not attack and then trample through with something bigger in a turn or two. I`ll try substituting it with Rush of Adrenaline. It won`t be as impressive with Pummeler, as that extra point of power often gets multiplied twice up to four, but on the other hand it lets me go for the kill with a Hydra or a Cub. Consistency is more important than a high ceiling, I think.
3) I had such low expectations for Harnessed Lightning, but the card delivers, it`s quite good, probably as much because of the instant speed as the energy. In some cases it`s actually worth playing as "1R: Gain EEE" to save a Hydra or double a Pummeler. I missed being able to go to the face though, I often had my opponent stabilize at a few life points, however I don`t think we can afford to run Incendiary Flow in the main unless we straight up swaps Harnessed Lightning for it though, too much removal will water down our combo game plan. I am currently running a full set of Flow in the sideboard.
4) I went toe to toe with powerful decks like UW Panharmonic and RW Vehicles, and the games were close. The biggest problem with this deck seems to be not card quality, strategy or power level, but consistency. Most of the times I lost, it felt as if it was because I saw the wrong half of my deck. Energy Boost is one of those decks where you have two components and need to see a good mix of both, like Reanimator or Infect. Sometimes you get too many creatures and not enough pump spells, sometimes it`s the other way around. Maybe a few copies of trollcopter should be jammed into this deck because of the filtering, sad as it might be to admit. I`ll try replacing a Hydra with one of those ugly contraptions, as I absolutely hated seeing 2-3 2GG creatures in my first nine cards. Trollcopter should be a good pump target too, and it might even help with the reach I`m missing.
5) Electrostatic Pummeler spent more time on the battlefield than expected. This might be attributed to it being an unknown quantity, but people threw their removal at Brawlers and Cubs on sight, so you can try to overload their removal by playing all the other creatures first. It is also often worth it to wait until turn four if you have Blossoming Defense for protection.
6) Sometimes your huge blowout doesn`t kill your opponent, and you`re burnt out of cards and energy with your opponent sitting comfortably at something like 4-6 life. Bedlam Reveler seems like it`s worth experimenting with, it sounds pretty good to be able to reload with new cards and go at it again, but man would I hate to see it in my opening hand. 1-of?
7) The overkills you can get in this deck are absolutely hilarious. I swung into my tapped out opponent`s lethal board with a 64/64 trampling Pummeler last night. If pulling that off doesn`t make you grin like an idiot, I don`t know what you`re about.
Round 1 vs G/R Ramp - Win. they still have their tools, they still have their huge Eldrazi monsters. Kozilek's Return made the match last long, but eventually i made some of my theeats stick to the board and ended the game. a turn 4 kill was made.
Round 2 vs B/W Midrange/Control - Loss. at the deciding game, i mulliganed to 5 and got stuck on 2 lands for a long time.
Round 3 vs B/W Angel Control - Loss. once again, mulliganed to 5 at the deciding round. a turn 4 kill was made by me, however.
Round 4 vs U/W Control - Win. the deck miraculously worked perfectly. another turn 4 kill was done.
thoughts:
1. i patterned the deck after my (relatively) successful RDW pre-rotation. same number of creatures, spells and lands. the curve is higher with the G/R deck, of course, but it should have worked fine. the problem, i think, is Galvanic Bombardment. it was the replacement for Fiery Impulse, but GB works best in multiples so instead of 2 i brought in 4. generally was lackluster. maybe i should remove all 4 and replace 2 with Collective Defiance, the other 2 with creatures.
2. i asked the ones who beat me (LGS regulars whom i battled before) for their opinion. one said that i could have won cleanly had i not mulliganed to 5 and had a good curve of threats (and i agree). the other guy said that my deck was missing something he feared before: Hanweir Battlements. it gave mid to late game threats haste and can sometimes win me the game out of nowhere when it melds with Hanweir Garrison. so i will try to fit 2 Battlements in the deck and see how it goes next time.
3. Magmatic Chasm basically didn't do me good at all. i put it in the board for Ishkanah, which can certainly wreck aggro strategies. the sideboard's geared towards battling it out against aggressive strategies to reflect the recent SCG tournament, but it turns out that the meta's still largely the same as before.
anyway, that's my FNM report. any comments and/or suggestions? thanks!
also, how did your FNM go?
PS: i still won 1 pack, though, and pulled a Nissa.
You should definitely drop Borderland marauder and thriving grubs, since they are bad magic cards. Borderland marauder is a limited cards. It has no place in a standard deck. Put some more Longtusk cubs. Bristling Hydra should be in the main. Servant of the conduit seems to me much better than Thriving Grubs.
I've ended up pushing my deck a little more towards Midrange, it's my 6th or so iteration but it's finally starting to feel right. I've played versions of the mirror twice and a third time with an Electrostatic Pummpler combo. Haven't lost against RW aggro/vehicles yet and it has good board matches against control, even stealing a game before board if the draw favors you. The only deck my past versions lost to that I haven't played again are affinity style combo decks that play with Key to the City and Metalwork Colossus but I still feel like it has a good plan against them. Here's the list
I've had to come around to Bristling Hydra, when it goes off it can go off hard but I still don't like the lack of evasion. 2 has seemed like the right number but I keep one in the board for matches against heavy removal. Fleetwheel Cruiser can almost replace it in the right match up. Control is still playing Fumigate (though that might die down with all the Selfless Spirit's running about). Fumigate is a beating against us but we can beat it by playing around it. Play the slow game and hold cards back. Vehicles help a lot as they can't be wrathed and Cruiser damage can build up fast. The Flagship can help with planeswalker control since you don't want to spend too many resources dealing with them and not beating face but it's the card I bring in the least. The deck runs pretty well on it's own so a few one of's in the sideboard are just to help tweak the numbers against the right matchups. The exception is the single Clip Wings which is purely there for The Profane Prince and maybe Avacyn.
Saw someone playing a similar list but they ran Eldritch Evolution. Might be nice utility to turn your Sage of Shaila's Claim into a Hydra or Pummler to help consistency if needed.
3) I had such low expectations for Harnessed Lightning, but the card delivers, it`s quite good, probably as much because of the instant speed as the energy. In some cases it`s actually worth playing as "1R: Gain EEE" to save a Hydra or double a Pummeler. I missed being able to go to the face though, I often had my opponent stabilize at a few life points, however I don`t think we can afford to run Incendiary Flow in the main unless we straight up swaps Harnessed Lightning for it though, too much removal will water down our combo game plan. I am currently running a full set of Flow in the sideboard.
4) I went toe to toe with powerful decks like UW Panharmonic and RW Vehicles, and the games were close. The biggest problem with this deck seems to be not card quality, strategy or power level, but consistency. Most of the times I lost, it felt as if it was because I saw the wrong half of my deck. Energy Boost is one of those decks where you have two components and need to see a good mix of both, like Reanimator or Infect. Sometimes you get too many creatures and not enough pump spells, sometimes it`s the other way around. Maybe a few copies of trollcopter should be jammed into this deck because of the filtering, sad as it might be to admit. I`ll try replacing a Hydra with one of those ugly contraptions, as I absolutely hated seeing 2-3 2GG creatures in my first nine cards. Trollcopter should be a good pump target too, and it might even help with the reach I`m missing.
I've been playing r/g for about 1.5 months off and on. With the release of Kaladesh and all of the super-aggro one drops out there (R/W Vehicles) I found Incendiary Flow to be underwhelming. We need some kind of instant speed removal. I've recently added 4 Harnessed Lightning to my build in place of Flow. I also found that I really needed to do 4 damage sometimes, which Harnessed Lightning can pull off turns 3-6 quite well.
As I mentioned before, I think Smuggler's Copter is amazing. The card is uber powerful. The fact that this card fits in nearly every deck shouldn't be a deterrence for us. What does our deck need? Card filtering and evasion. This does both.
1) The more I played, the more I realized that this pump heavy build is pretty far away from a straight aggro deck. It definitely feels more like a combo deck, like Atarka Red, and the more I played towards the plan of killing with one or two huge blows, the more likely I was to win. Energy Boost might not belong in this thread at all, which is kind of strange, considering how it plays so many of the same cards. If and when this thread starts to agree on an established aggro/midrange build, I`ll probably take this deck to a separate thread.
I'd say there looks like 2 lines of play here. Early aggro/energy heavy which plays 1 drops and Longtusk Club with pump spells for incredible early damage.
The midrange build I see forming can make great use of Servant of the Conduit and Bristling Hydra. My versions have always been more midrange. A midrange build might benefit more from Tireless Tracker than an aggro build. I like that we can get a clue with Tracker on turn 3 if we have a turn 2 Servant of the Conduit. Consistent mana and energy keep this deck going late game and allow us to play larger threats on curve and more often. A midrange build can utilize Eldritch Evolution more efficiently than an aggro version as we can sac a 3 drop creature to get out Gearhulk a turn early.
Personally, I'm really excited for my more midrange/ramp focused deck. Verdurous Gearhulk seems to be the best card we have in our deck, so making it shine is a priority for me. I like that with Servant of the Conduit and Eldritch Evolution the deck has to potential for ramp and psuedo ramp to get Gearhulk or Hydra out a turn early. A 5/4 Hexproof swinging in on turn 4 through Eldritch Evolution seems to be a pretty great play. Servant also furthers our energy plan giving Voltiac Brawler and extra pumped up swing or and extra damage for Harnessed Lightning.
My deck list posted on this page a few threads above has many scale-able creatures, which seems to what a midrange version wants.
All get better the longer the game goes on, or at least for a turn or 2 after they're played.
Anyone else interested in Hanweir/have reports on it?
***Edit*** I would vote on holding off from the thread separation just yet. Threads that seem to have 2 archetypes with lots of overlap in builds provide more input than 2 separate threads. There does come a point when the line gets drawn if the post gets overly crowded with posts about 2 very different decks, but we don't seem to be at that point in my opinion. I like seeing builds that have a few different cards and slightly different gameplans as we can borrow cards and ideas from each other. We can also scheme about sideboard cards together!
You should definitely drop Borderland marauder and thriving grubs, since they are bad magic cards. Borderland marauder is a limited cards. It has no place in a standard deck. Put some more Longtusk cubs. Bristling Hydra should be in the main. Servant of the conduit seems to me much better than Thriving Grubs.
i respectfully disagree with your assessment of Borderland Marauder. the card is pretty much feared in the LGS because it eats chunks of life early on. that and Voltaic Brawler ensures i have aggressive 2 drops.
i do agree, however, that Thriving Grubs may have to be replaced with Servant of the Conduit and that Bristling Hydra should be in the main. the grubs got killed by Liliana. but if i go with Servant of the Conduit, i'll have to go midrange, i think, for payoff cards like Verdurous Gearhulk.
i am undecided on putting more Longtusk Cubs for now as they don't do anything when they enter the battlefield, not even provide free energy immediately.
SB is built to destroy mirror, UW Spirits, RW Vehicles, and Artifact Combo.
Control decks and BG Delirium does not stand a chance since you can kill them before they can do anything.
Nice deck orenjdeuce! Congrats on a 4-0 victory! Any interesting highlights from the matches? Close calls? When do you use Oviya?
I missed my FNM last night unfortunately. I did spend a lot of time fishbowling my deck online though. Found some very interesting lines and polished it up.
Would Gnarlwood Dryad work well vs. r/w Vehicles? I figure a turn 1 deathtouch would help stem the tide somewhat.
This list has been impressive in developing it's board early on. The deck can go aggro when you draw a hand full of 1-3 drops. A Kessig Prowler followed up by a Brawler turn 2 gets a lot of damage through quickly. Smuggler's Copter allows Kessig Prowler, spent Voltiac Brawlers and non-ramping Servant of the Conduits to stay relevant and digging for Gearhulk.
The deck can go a ramp route when you draw a Servant of the Conduit with a Gearhulk or Bristling Hydra in hand. Tireless Tracker is amazing with Servant of the Conduit. Turn 1 Attune with Aether. Turn 2 Servant of the Conduit. Turn 3 Play Tracker and get a Clue via ramp. Turn 4 play another Tracker via Servant, drop land, get 2 clues (total of 3 now), sac a clue to buff both Trackers. Even if you just have 1 Tracker, you can drop a land turn 4 and sac both clues to attack in with a 5/3 and refill the hand. I think these plays will do well vs. control decks as we force them to answer our trackers while gaining card advantage.
Anyone else coming to the darkside to play Smuggler's Copter with me? I have another nasty line of play that gets out Copter and plays Gearhulk turn 4, pumping the copter. If they have no mana up/no fliers, drop all of the counters on the copter for 7 damage in the air turn 4. Note that you can use the Gearhulk to crew the Thopter then put counters on it. The fact that the copter dodges removal after that is just plain silly.
I traded out 2 Game Trail for 2 Aether Hub and have been very pleased. There does seem to be a noticeable positive difference as I can sometimes get a free energy and become less likely to play a land that enters tapped late game when I want to drop Hydra or Gearhulk.
I went 3-1 yesterday in an FNM and just threw this list together. Three opponents were pretty good players. One was a novice and missed a couple of plays, though I think I still would've won. Just putting facts in to keep things in perspective.
So, some quick points. Yes, it's 61 cards. I couldn't decide on the mana count or what I wanted to cut and I was tossing the deck together right before the event. The sidebaord was questionable as I had no real idea what to expect from the local crowd. The event was 24 players I believe.
Having a perfect curve isn't really necessary in your creature base. There are a lot of times you'll want to play a card and have mana up for a Blossoming Defense or to Harness Lightning something on their turn.
Incendiary Flow had a few times where being a sorcery was bad. You can't fight Smuggler's Copter with it. You can't burn something and block during combat. You can't stop opposing pump spells. It was good for dealing damage to the opponent and it was serviceable removal, but it does limit actions on your turn pretty seriously. I'm considering playing Welding Sparks in it's place. Yes, it costs more, but Instant speed makes a big different right now and it's easy to cast. The real answer though is likely still Fiery Temper since it can target the opponent.
I wasn't totally sold on Smuggler's Copter. It's a good card when it works, but honestly, there were a few times it just sat on the table and didn't do much. There were also a lot of tough loot decisions to be made. I think it's still worthwhile for some builds, just not sure it's where I want to be. I'd rather have a 4-5 slots that are some combination of Servant of the Conduit and Oviya Parishi, Sage Lifecrafter I think.
Both of the gearhulks (aka jaegers) were good. No real complaints about those. Mana was only an issue once during the night, so I'm not sure how much I'd be looking to adjust it.
The Hanweir duo was quite good. Being able to give haste to all your stuff is nice. I also melded the pair once. The Garrison is nice because opponents seem to get caught in a situation where they feel the need to block or deal with it in some way, leaving other creatures alone. If they have to block it, you still end up with two more attackers.
Larger Than Life got sided out almost every time. The 4th Bristling Hydra got sided in almost every time.
Next version might look like:
-3 Smuggler's Copter
-3 Larger Than Life
-3 Incendiary Flow
+1 Bristling Hydra
+3(4) Servant of the Conduit
+3(4) Fiery Temper
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Servant of the Conduit
2x Ulvenwald Captive
4x Lathnu Hellion
4x Bristling Hydra
4x Verdurous Gearhulk
3x Blossoming Defense
4x Attune with Aether
4x Harnessed Lightning
3x Collective Defiance
Planeswalkers(2):
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4x Aether Hub
4x Game Trail
4x Cinder Glade
7x Forest
3x Mountain
It's a little more 'ramp' than 'aggro' I guess, but I like the curve here and the energy cards help your versatility. I feel that Chandra, Torch of Defiance is too good not to play since does things we want: ramp, removal and reach. I considered Nissa, Vital Force but she seems more suited to sideboard in vs control. 22 land feels right when almost half of our deck can be cast off of 3 mana, considering the ramp and the Attune with Aethers and Chandra, but might be too greedy or too much.
Pummeler's ceiling is completely bonkers. I goldfished a bit with the Kenji list, and it easily and consistently attacks for uncanny amounts of trample damage turn four. You slap something like Larger Than Life+Blossoming Defense (7 power trample) or Uncaged Fury+Built to Smash (5 power trample double strike), then throw out three energy counters to double its P/T and attack for 14 and 20 respectively in the examples provided. Between extra counters from Brawler, Attune and Hub you can very often double it twice, which just wins on the spot no matter what they block with. That said, goldfishing is goldfishing, and in real life it is a three mana creature that dies to mostly anything. But it goes to show that while it is a risky card to play, the payoff is very much there, so I believe the strategy is worth testing.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
You are correct. Pummeler dies here.
We have very similar lists. The only thing I'd consider cutting is Ulrich for the 3rd and 4th Gearhulk. Ulrich has the potential of being a removal spell but it's never at the right time given the format of vehicles.
Because you should be the biggest stompy deck, you really only need to kill things like Skysovereign, Kalitas, Copter, or large Lieutenants. Ulrich does nothing to solve the vehicle problem and doesn't help you attack Gideon any better than Gearhulk does. On top of that, Gearhulk dodges Revolutionary Rebuff, which the flash and control mages are jamming.
Ulrich is very good against Spirits though so it could be considered as a SB slot vs. the UWx flash menace.
The idea behind the Captive is to have a ramp creature that isn't dead in the late game because you can invest mana into it to make it relevantly sized. It seemed better to me than the other mana-producing creature options but I may be overlooking something.
As you say, my plan to deal with the Smuggler's Copter is to play sideboard hate for it.
Tireless Tracker may be better than Lathnu Hellion for this list as you say. My thought process was that in a deck that ramps through mana creatures rather than playing extra lands, the Tracker won't grow as quickly since we're making a lot fewer clues. The Hellion also lets me keep the midrange-aggro feel that I'm aiming for, but that could very well be nonsense.
Decklist Link:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=108234
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
i like that G/R energy decks so far have been not reliant on Smuggler's Copter.
also, the guy used Nature's Way as removal and way to give his creatures trample. pretty clever, in my opinion, so that his Bristling Hydras and Lathnu Hellions can do two things. kind of lackluster when those two creatures are not around, though there's Blossoming Defense to pump up smaller creatures.
that said, what's up with the deck's lands? no Cinder Glade nor Game Trail. is it really important to have an untapped land every time for a deck like that? are Aether Hub, Attune with Aether and Servant of the Conduit enough to have the color of mana needed? i am curious.
The version of G/R energy I've made does run Smuggler's Copter, similar to Jeff Hoogland's list, the card does a heck of a job lol!
The Nature's Way is pretty interesting. I have no idea what he was thinking with the land base or the sideboard.
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
4x Kessig Prowler
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Longtusk Cub
4x Sylvan Advocate
4x Lathnu Hellion
2x Bristling Hydra
4x Verdurous Gearhulk
4x Smuggler's Copter
4x Harnessed Lightning
2x Collective Defiance
Lands: 24
4x Game Trail
4x Cinder Glade
7x Mountain
7x Forest
2x Aether Hub
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
You're deck looks very similar to the one I've built! Arlinn Kord was in my deck for the last few incarnations and she doesn't really cut it for me. Especially since Bristling Hydra seems like a great card in that slot if we are going the energy route. My last deck had no 4 drop creatures in it and it definitely seemed to be a hindrance for me. I used to play Nissa, Voice of Zendikar in the deck and found her pretty useful. There are times when dropping her in to -2 and give counters to all creatures allows you keep swinging all out on an opponent. Kessig Prowler did some work for me in my last version of the deck. However, I took it out to include 4 copies of Servant of the Conduit. I feel like ramping into a Bristling Hydra or Verdurous Gearhulk a turn early will win games. Or drop a Copter plus another two drop on turn 3. It's slower turns 1-2 on attacks, but you can really get going with a ramp card turns 4-6.
This deck only recently got energy involved into the equation. I feel that this archetype has some great things to offer. It's pleased me in my limited play testing. My version of the deck is more midrange than aggro, and focusing on making sure Verdurous Gearhulk hits the field as often and early as possible.
I've included Smuggler's Copter in the deck. It does great in play testing. The fact that it dodges sorcery speed removal is incredible. I like that it's so cheap and can turn 2 drops into a more significant threat later in the game. I'm surprised I haven't seen more lists using it! You can drop a Gearhulk, tap it to crew the copter, then drop a bunch of tokens on the copter.
Eldritch Evolution is a 2 of in my deck. Is there a reason more decks don't run it? Sure, it can be countered, but you can sideboard out games 2/3 for Blossoming Defense instead vs. control matchups.
Any feedback on this deck would be awesome! It's less focused on energy development, more just r/g good stuff. I'm wondering about the inclusion of Hanweir Garrison. It is an army in a can and overwhelms the opponent quickly if it can attack twice. What do you think of him?
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Voltaic Brawler
3x Tireless Tracker
3x smuggler's copter
3x Hanweir Garrison
3x Bristling Hydra
4x Verdurous Gearhulk
4x Harnessed Lightning
2x Collective Defiance
4x Cinder Glade
4x Game Trail
9x Forest
7x Mountain
3x Blossoming Defense
4x Gnarlwood Dryad
4x Apetite for the Unnatural
4x Plummet
C Long Live Eldrazi C
1) The more I played, the more I realized that this pump heavy build is pretty far away from a straight aggro deck. It definitely feels more like a combo deck, like Atarka Red, and the more I played towards the plan of killing with one or two huge blows, the more likely I was to win. Energy Boost might not belong in this thread at all, which is kind of strange, considering how it plays so many of the same cards. If and when this thread starts to agree on an established aggro/midrange build, I`ll probably take this deck to a separate thread.
2) It needs more trample. I often had everything I needed to win if I could only get through chump blockers, and if all Built To Smash does is spend a card to kill a blocker, I`d rather not attack and then trample through with something bigger in a turn or two. I`ll try substituting it with Rush of Adrenaline. It won`t be as impressive with Pummeler, as that extra point of power often gets multiplied twice up to four, but on the other hand it lets me go for the kill with a Hydra or a Cub. Consistency is more important than a high ceiling, I think.
3) I had such low expectations for Harnessed Lightning, but the card delivers, it`s quite good, probably as much because of the instant speed as the energy. In some cases it`s actually worth playing as "1R: Gain EEE" to save a Hydra or double a Pummeler. I missed being able to go to the face though, I often had my opponent stabilize at a few life points, however I don`t think we can afford to run Incendiary Flow in the main unless we straight up swaps Harnessed Lightning for it though, too much removal will water down our combo game plan. I am currently running a full set of Flow in the sideboard.
4) I went toe to toe with powerful decks like UW Panharmonic and RW Vehicles, and the games were close. The biggest problem with this deck seems to be not card quality, strategy or power level, but consistency. Most of the times I lost, it felt as if it was because I saw the wrong half of my deck. Energy Boost is one of those decks where you have two components and need to see a good mix of both, like Reanimator or Infect. Sometimes you get too many creatures and not enough pump spells, sometimes it`s the other way around. Maybe a few copies of trollcopter should be jammed into this deck because of the filtering, sad as it might be to admit. I`ll try replacing a Hydra with one of those ugly contraptions, as I absolutely hated seeing 2-3 2GG creatures in my first nine cards. Trollcopter should be a good pump target too, and it might even help with the reach I`m missing.
5) Electrostatic Pummeler spent more time on the battlefield than expected. This might be attributed to it being an unknown quantity, but people threw their removal at Brawlers and Cubs on sight, so you can try to overload their removal by playing all the other creatures first. It is also often worth it to wait until turn four if you have Blossoming Defense for protection.
6) Sometimes your huge blowout doesn`t kill your opponent, and you`re burnt out of cards and energy with your opponent sitting comfortably at something like 4-6 life. Bedlam Reveler seems like it`s worth experimenting with, it sounds pretty good to be able to reload with new cards and go at it again, but man would I hate to see it in my opening hand. 1-of?
7) The overkills you can get in this deck are absolutely hilarious. I swung into my tapped out opponent`s lethal board with a 64/64 trampling Pummeler last night. If pulling that off doesn`t make you grin like an idiot, I don`t know what you`re about.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
went 2 wins 2 loss. my losses were because i mulliganed to 5 at the deciding game and failed to get the cards i needed.
4 Borderland Marauder
4 Hanweir Garrison
4 Lathnu Hellion
2 Longtusk Cub
4 Thriving Grubs
4 Voltaic Brawler
Spells 16
2 Collective Defiance
4 Galvanic Bombardment
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Incendiary Flow
2 Fleetwheel Cruiser
4 Aether Hub
4 Cinder Glade
4 Forest
4 Game Trail
6 Mountain
2 Bristling Hydra
2 Collective Definace
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Magmatic Chasm
4 Fiery temper
4 Lightning Axe
Round 1 vs G/R Ramp - Win. they still have their tools, they still have their huge Eldrazi monsters. Kozilek's Return made the match last long, but eventually i made some of my theeats stick to the board and ended the game. a turn 4 kill was made.
Round 2 vs B/W Midrange/Control - Loss. at the deciding game, i mulliganed to 5 and got stuck on 2 lands for a long time.
Round 3 vs B/W Angel Control - Loss. once again, mulliganed to 5 at the deciding round. a turn 4 kill was made by me, however.
Round 4 vs U/W Control - Win. the deck miraculously worked perfectly. another turn 4 kill was done.
thoughts:
1. i patterned the deck after my (relatively) successful RDW pre-rotation. same number of creatures, spells and lands. the curve is higher with the G/R deck, of course, but it should have worked fine. the problem, i think, is Galvanic Bombardment. it was the replacement for Fiery Impulse, but GB works best in multiples so instead of 2 i brought in 4. generally was lackluster. maybe i should remove all 4 and replace 2 with Collective Defiance, the other 2 with creatures.
2. i asked the ones who beat me (LGS regulars whom i battled before) for their opinion. one said that i could have won cleanly had i not mulliganed to 5 and had a good curve of threats (and i agree). the other guy said that my deck was missing something he feared before: Hanweir Battlements. it gave mid to late game threats haste and can sometimes win me the game out of nowhere when it melds with Hanweir Garrison. so i will try to fit 2 Battlements in the deck and see how it goes next time.
3. Magmatic Chasm basically didn't do me good at all. i put it in the board for Ishkanah, which can certainly wreck aggro strategies. the sideboard's geared towards battling it out against aggressive strategies to reflect the recent SCG tournament, but it turns out that the meta's still largely the same as before.
anyway, that's my FNM report. any comments and/or suggestions? thanks!
also, how did your FNM go?
PS: i still won 1 pack, though, and pulled a Nissa.
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Tireless Tracker
2 Pia Nalaar
2 Bristling Hydra
3 Verdurous Gearhulk
SPELLS
4 Attune with Aether
3 Blossoming Defense
3 Harnessed Lightning
3 Smuggler's Copter
2 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Collective Defiance
3 Aether Hub
4 Cinder Glade
4 Game Trail
7 Forest
7 Mountain
4 Appetite for the Unnatural
4 Fleetwheel Cruiser
2 Collective Defiance
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1 Bristling Hydra
1 Clip Wings
1 Harnessed Lightning
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Electrostatic Pummeler
4 Bristling Hydra
4 Built to Smash
4 Larger than Life
4 Uncaged Fury
2 Deadlock Trap
4 Aether Hub
4 Timber Gorge
9 Forest
5 Mountain
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
I've been playing r/g for about 1.5 months off and on. With the release of Kaladesh and all of the super-aggro one drops out there (R/W Vehicles) I found Incendiary Flow to be underwhelming. We need some kind of instant speed removal. I've recently added 4 Harnessed Lightning to my build in place of Flow. I also found that I really needed to do 4 damage sometimes, which Harnessed Lightning can pull off turns 3-6 quite well.
As I mentioned before, I think Smuggler's Copter is amazing. The card is uber powerful. The fact that this card fits in nearly every deck shouldn't be a deterrence for us. What does our deck need? Card filtering and evasion. This does both.
I'd say there looks like 2 lines of play here. Early aggro/energy heavy which plays 1 drops and Longtusk Club with pump spells for incredible early damage.
Both build have a good deal of overlap in the 2 drops such as Voltaic Brawler and Sylvan Advocate. Harnessed Lightning also seems to be in both aggro/midrange version of the deck. Along with the Verdurous Gearhulk allstar.
The midrange build I see forming can make great use of Servant of the Conduit and Bristling Hydra. My versions have always been more midrange. A midrange build might benefit more from Tireless Tracker than an aggro build. I like that we can get a clue with Tracker on turn 3 if we have a turn 2 Servant of the Conduit. Consistent mana and energy keep this deck going late game and allow us to play larger threats on curve and more often. A midrange build can utilize Eldritch Evolution more efficiently than an aggro version as we can sac a 3 drop creature to get out Gearhulk a turn early.
Personally, I'm really excited for my more midrange/ramp focused deck. Verdurous Gearhulk seems to be the best card we have in our deck, so making it shine is a priority for me. I like that with Servant of the Conduit and Eldritch Evolution the deck has to potential for ramp and psuedo ramp to get Gearhulk or Hydra out a turn early. A 5/4 Hexproof swinging in on turn 4 through Eldritch Evolution seems to be a pretty great play. Servant also furthers our energy plan giving Voltiac Brawler and extra pumped up swing or and extra damage for Harnessed Lightning.
My deck list posted on this page a few threads above has many scale-able creatures, which seems to what a midrange version wants.
All get better the longer the game goes on, or at least for a turn or 2 after they're played.
Anyone else interested in Hanweir/have reports on it?
***Edit*** I would vote on holding off from the thread separation just yet. Threads that seem to have 2 archetypes with lots of overlap in builds provide more input than 2 separate threads. There does come a point when the line gets drawn if the post gets overly crowded with posts about 2 very different decks, but we don't seem to be at that point in my opinion. I like seeing builds that have a few different cards and slightly different gameplans as we can borrow cards and ideas from each other. We can also scheme about sideboard cards together!
i respectfully disagree with your assessment of Borderland Marauder. the card is pretty much feared in the LGS because it eats chunks of life early on. that and Voltaic Brawler ensures i have aggressive 2 drops.
i do agree, however, that Thriving Grubs may have to be replaced with Servant of the Conduit and that Bristling Hydra should be in the main. the grubs got killed by Liliana. but if i go with Servant of the Conduit, i'll have to go midrange, i think, for payoff cards like Verdurous Gearhulk.
i am undecided on putting more Longtusk Cubs for now as they don't do anything when they enter the battlefield, not even provide free energy immediately.
4 Aether Hub
4 Evolving Wilds
7 Forest
4 Mountain
1 Island
Creatures
4 Bomat Courier
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Lathnu Hellion
4 Electrostatic Pummeler
2 Fleetwheel Cruiser
4 Attune with Aether
4 Built to Smash
4 Blossoming Defense
2 Rush of Adrenaline
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Plummet
2 Appetite for the Unnatural
2 Bristling Hydra
2 Warped Wail
2 Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter
The deck is pretty straightforward and consistently curving well. Can even kill turn 4 with Electrostatic Pummeler or Aggro your opponent with Voltaic Brawler and Lathnu Hellion
SB is built to destroy mirror, UW Spirits, RW Vehicles, and Artifact Combo.
Control decks and BG Delirium does not stand a chance since you can kill them before they can do anything.
I missed my FNM last night unfortunately. I did spend a lot of time fishbowling my deck online though. Found some very interesting lines and polished it up.
3x Kessig Prowler
4x Sylvan Advocate
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Tireless Tracker
2x Bristling Hydra
4x Verdurous Gearhulk
11 Non-creatures
1x Cathartic Reunion
4x smuggler's copter
3x Attune with Aether
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Cinder Glade
2x Aether Hub
2x Game Trail
10x Forest
5x Mountain
3x Galvanic Blast
4x Gnarlwood Dryad
4x Appetite for the Unnatural
4x Plummet
This list has been impressive in developing it's board early on. The deck can go aggro when you draw a hand full of 1-3 drops. A Kessig Prowler followed up by a Brawler turn 2 gets a lot of damage through quickly. Smuggler's Copter allows Kessig Prowler, spent Voltiac Brawlers and non-ramping Servant of the Conduits to stay relevant and digging for Gearhulk.
The deck can go a ramp route when you draw a Servant of the Conduit with a Gearhulk or Bristling Hydra in hand. Tireless Tracker is amazing with Servant of the Conduit. Turn 1 Attune with Aether. Turn 2 Servant of the Conduit. Turn 3 Play Tracker and get a Clue via ramp. Turn 4 play another Tracker via Servant, drop land, get 2 clues (total of 3 now), sac a clue to buff both Trackers. Even if you just have 1 Tracker, you can drop a land turn 4 and sac both clues to attack in with a 5/3 and refill the hand. I think these plays will do well vs. control decks as we force them to answer our trackers while gaining card advantage.
Anyone else coming to the darkside to play Smuggler's Copter with me? I have another nasty line of play that gets out Copter and plays Gearhulk turn 4, pumping the copter. If they have no mana up/no fliers, drop all of the counters on the copter for 7 damage in the air turn 4. Note that you can use the Gearhulk to crew the Thopter then put counters on it. The fact that the copter dodges removal after that is just plain silly.
I traded out 2 Game Trail for 2 Aether Hub and have been very pleased. There does seem to be a noticeable positive difference as I can sometimes get a free energy and become less likely to play a land that enters tapped late game when I want to drop Hydra or Gearhulk.
Won: BG Delerium, GR Artifact Aggro, Wx Aetherflux Resorvoir Lost: RW Dwarf Vehicles
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Voltaic Brawler
2 Hanweir Garrison
3 Bristling Hydra
4 Verdurous Gearhulk
2 Combustible Gearhulk
Spells
4 Blossoming Defense
4 Harness Lightning
3 Incendiary Flow
3 Larger Than Life
3 Smuggler's Copter
3 Aether Hub
3 Cinder Glade
7 Forest
4 Game Trail
2 Hanweir Battlements
6 Mountain
2 Ruinous Gremlin
2 Appetite for the Unnatural
1 Incendiary Flow
2 Collective Defiance
3 Magmatic Chasm
1 Bristling Hydra
3 Fleetwheel Cruiser
1 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
So, some quick points. Yes, it's 61 cards. I couldn't decide on the mana count or what I wanted to cut and I was tossing the deck together right before the event. The sidebaord was questionable as I had no real idea what to expect from the local crowd. The event was 24 players I believe.
Having a perfect curve isn't really necessary in your creature base. There are a lot of times you'll want to play a card and have mana up for a Blossoming Defense or to Harness Lightning something on their turn.
Incendiary Flow had a few times where being a sorcery was bad. You can't fight Smuggler's Copter with it. You can't burn something and block during combat. You can't stop opposing pump spells. It was good for dealing damage to the opponent and it was serviceable removal, but it does limit actions on your turn pretty seriously. I'm considering playing Welding Sparks in it's place. Yes, it costs more, but Instant speed makes a big different right now and it's easy to cast. The real answer though is likely still Fiery Temper since it can target the opponent.
I wasn't totally sold on Smuggler's Copter. It's a good card when it works, but honestly, there were a few times it just sat on the table and didn't do much. There were also a lot of tough loot decisions to be made. I think it's still worthwhile for some builds, just not sure it's where I want to be. I'd rather have a 4-5 slots that are some combination of Servant of the Conduit and Oviya Parishi, Sage Lifecrafter I think.
Both of the gearhulks (aka jaegers) were good. No real complaints about those. Mana was only an issue once during the night, so I'm not sure how much I'd be looking to adjust it.
The Hanweir duo was quite good. Being able to give haste to all your stuff is nice. I also melded the pair once. The Garrison is nice because opponents seem to get caught in a situation where they feel the need to block or deal with it in some way, leaving other creatures alone. If they have to block it, you still end up with two more attackers.
Larger Than Life got sided out almost every time. The 4th Bristling Hydra got sided in almost every time.
Next version might look like:
-3 Smuggler's Copter
-3 Larger Than Life
-3 Incendiary Flow
+1 Bristling Hydra
+3(4) Servant of the Conduit
+3(4) Fiery Temper
thanks!
nice list you have there. how did Arlinn Kord go in your games?