Has anyone thought about splashing black for the scrapheap? I like the idea of recurring threats, and it also opens up for fatal push or some other sb tech.
The biggest downfall I've had is not keeping creatures on board, and this would help with that.
I am looking though this thread as some version of this will be my deck for a while as my other two decks were basically banned and i could throw this one together at minimal cost.
As strong as voltaic Brawler is, can one make a case for monogreen energy with the new trick that adds +3 and gives energy?
I am looking though this thread as some version of this will be my deck for a while as my other two decks were basically banned and i could throw this one together at minimal cost.
As strong as voltaic Brawler is, can one make a case for monogreen energy with the new trick that adds +3 and gives energy?
The cheapest version is GR combo, like this. You don´t need Trackers, Gearhulks, Chandras or Cinder Glades, which brings down the price. But without red you lose access to too many pump spells and Brawler, and you want to run Aether Hub and Attune for the energy supply anyway, so cutting red really doesn`t make any sense. I guess you could always skimp on a Game Trail or two to save a few bucks, but honestly, a $60 competitive standard deck isn`t exactly expensive. You should be able to cover that easily with the leftovers from your banned decks.
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Did you guys see Max McVety`s list? Combo in the main, midrange in the side. Why choose one? It makes a lot of sense, as combo lists can`t sideboard too much anyway. Also plenty of removal in both main and side to deal with the copycat combo.
So this is what I'm bringing to standard tomorrow, Renegade elf is great way to make my opp use up removal, I think he's good for a one-of that can be SB'd out for a PW once I know what I'm facing. I also would be adding more Rampage if my shop has them, but I only pulled one from my box.
has an okay matchup against it, unless they drop back to back mindwrack demon. Lathnu hellion actually put a lot of pressure on them.
What do you guys think ?
has an okay matchup against it, unless they drop back to back mindwrack demon. Lathnu hellion actually put a lot of pressure on them.
What do you guys think ?
I actually like this list. Most cards are reasonable and has round-about ways of dealing with Demon.
Like most fair midrange decks, if you get behind GB you probably can't win -- unless you've got random stuff like Fumigate post-board.
Four colors. That's ballsy. I find my consistently hampered by just splashing for a third. You ever find yourself not being able to curve out due to your manabase? If you can make it work then great, more colours = more goodies.
has an okay matchup against it, unless they drop back to back mindwrack demon. Lathnu hellion actually put a lot of pressure on them.
What do you guys think ?
Glad to see this list doing well as it seems close to my own. I'm still unsure if I want to run Servant of the Conduit. The reason I have pulled it out is because it's not a great top deck and I didn't feel like the ramp was amazing in my deck, but 2 energy is 2 energy, so perhaps its better than Rishkar, Peema Renegade, which I added to help create better starts and as a hopefully better topdeck.
The problem against G/B is basically that they can go bigger than you and make a lot of your creatures irrelevant. It also makes running Shock MB worse, even if still not awful. I would have thought Kari Zev's Expertise would be useful SB tech against them. Essentially you just need a way of dealing with their bigger threats and you should be able to win as most of your threats are around the same level, but it's about dealing with those bigger threats. Winding Constrictor is a must-kill as well (but is weak on its own versus most of our deck). Blossoming Defense is probably also a good card in this matchup, both as a way to counter kill spells but also to help with the size of our creatures versus their own.
If they're running Mindwrack Demon and Verdurous Gearhulk, then yeah, I can see that matchup being particularly difficult. I would have thought Aethersphere Harvester would be useful here. I still don't like it MB though.
I'm sort of thinking about something like this. You've got plenty of ways to fight over snek, with lightning and chandra. I foresee this possibly struggling with t2 snek into t3 threat on the draw vs gb. maybe sticking a t2 Rampager could help. I'm not entirely sure.
I like your list. Splashing blue is definitely a valid option as the counter spells can really help in some matchups. Perhaps its the way I do my manabase but I can never get my mana to be consistent for the linear deck I want to play if I splash blue or any third colour.
Only thing I would say is that it appears to me your Game Trail's would often come in tapped. That may not be an issue for you with the deck, mind. How is Aethersphere Harvester been? I have never liked it in my list. It just seems to play a similar role as other creatures except it takes the spot of one.
This is my current decklist. Still tweaking and really need to give it a field test before I tweak it any further:
Not sure if I have enough energy productions, but I'm aiming for "enough" rather than an abundance. Also think I should cut down on the Lathnu Hellion's; they're great in most matchups unless your opponent goes bigger than you (read: G/B Counters). Drawing too many can sometimes be a nuisance.
Edit: Just had another thought about my deck and the list above I think is what I'm going with.
I think you are right about playing Heart of Kiran. I'm trying to include it in my lists too. The fact that Chandra can naturally fit into the deck, plus our low cost 3 power creatures=lots of crewing. Also, our deck can get clogged up on the ground vs. aggro so I see heart as a natural fit. My guess is that heart is better than Aethersphere Harvester because we can turn 2 heart, turn 3 brawler or Servant or attune+Greenbelt Rampager to get in for 4 flying damage on turn 3. I'm skeptical about you running only 20 lands in the deck however. Especially without servant of the conduit, the deck will have too many bad hands or slow starts. As lugger has pointed out, Ramppager costs 3 green mana if you don't have the energy support.
Here's a list I'm looking at playing at the San Jose GP this weekend. Please let me know your thoughts! I'm curious, is Goblin Darkdwellers worth considering sideboard? With all of our removal, it seems like it could work. Is it nota s good as gearhulk and Skysovereign?
I am looking though this thread as some version of this will be my deck for a while as my other two decks were basically banned and i could throw this one together at minimal cost.
As strong as voltaic Brawler is, can one make a case for monogreen energy with the new trick that adds +3 and gives energy?
The cheapest version is GR combo, like this. You don´t need Trackers, Gearhulks, Chandras or Cinder Glades, which brings down the price. But without red you lose access to too many pump spells and Brawler, and you want to run Aether Hub and Attune for the energy supply anyway, so cutting red really doesn`t make any sense. I guess you could always skimp on a Game Trail or two to save a few bucks, but honestly, a $60 competitive standard deck isn`t exactly expensive. You should be able to cover that easily with the leftovers from your banned decks.
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Did you guys see Max McVety`s list? Combo in the main, midrange in the side. Why choose one? It makes a lot of sense, as combo lists can`t sideboard too much anyway. Also plenty of removal in both main and side to deal with the copycat combo.
Im new to the deck and this list intrigues me. How would one sideboard into the midrange version?
Juste remove the pummeler and pumps spells, replcace by the midrange package : Chandra, tracker and some shocks.
Guys have you noticed htat a lot of the 5-0 list on MODO are temmur energy or pummeler combo ? Must be viable then ! Or maybe there is not many GB counters deck on MODO ?
Guys have you noticed htat a lot of the 5-0 list on MODO are temmur energy or pummeler combo ? Must be viable then ! Or maybe there is not many GB counters deck on MODO ?
With enough answers including Chandra, Torch of Defiance, Galvanic Bombardment, Shock, Incendiary Flow, and Harnessed Lightning I could see RG beating up BG.
Here's a list I'm looking at playing at the San Jose GP this weekend. Please let me know your thoughts! I'm curious, is Goblin Darkdwellers worth considering sideboard? With all of our removal, it seems like it could work. Is it nota s good as gearhulk and Skysovereign?
I think you need to stick Tireless Trackers in there. They've never let me down, and they crew Kiran. I haven't been liking Longtusk Cubs on the mainboard ever since I've been using Greenbelt Rampager and Heart of Kiran. They are great on the play certainly, but they can get some dead situations and that's always felt bad. There's a limit I feel to what can suck in energy, and the Cub is one that sometimes never can even provide any. Especially against GB Counters in my test games. I actually dropped the Cubs completely, and switched to a Lathnu Hellion sideboard. Here's what I've shaped into after testing:
Here's a list I'm looking at playing at the San Jose GP this weekend. Please let me know your thoughts! I'm curious, is Goblin Darkdwellers worth considering sideboard? With all of our removal, it seems like it could work. Is it nota s good as gearhulk and Skysovereign?
Not sure on Goblin Dark-Dwellers. It's one of my favourite cards but I just don't feel like you have enough cards to flashback with it. I certainly would not board it in unless you're also adding Incendiary Flow and the like. Flashbacking Attune with Aether does not seem that appealing to me.
As another commenter said, you want Tireless Tracker. It just works. I would suggest trying to keep to 24 creatures or as close to if you can.
The 20 lands is not as bad as you think it is. I started with 22, kept flooding out, then went down to 21 and... kept flooding out. In playtesting, I have found myself needing to mulligan more, but I'm more often drawing relevant cards over dead-weight lands. I've also added Servant of the Conduit to my list and moved Lathnu Hellion to the sideboard.
I agree with what Kevin said BUT i have a question for everyone.
I saw, in many lists, the new card Greenbelt Rampager. Now...i've never been a fan of Longtusk Cub, cos it doesn't add any energy, being it a dead drop middle late game top deck, and i see the same issue with the Rampager. It is NOT a 1-drop, since u cannot play it on T1, and on T2 it cost GG. When you manage to play it, it sucks you 2 Energy giving you a 3/4 body with no abilities in return.
Can anyone explain me the reasoning behind playing it??
And on a side note, why so few play Hanweir Garrison. It is a great middle/late game creature if things don't go as planned and you cant close the game fast enough. Plus it gives your 2 tokens on each attack in case u need blockers later on, or you need creatures to survive opponent removals.
REPORTING LIVE FROM GRAND PRIX! I'm open to prompt feedback. I'm going to keep playing this deck for the next 4 rounds of swiss I have scheduled for the next two days. We'll get to see how this deck can evolve against the current meta.
First round of swiss, a very close 3:1.
Match 1: 2-0 can't remember my opponent's deck, but I won easily
Match 2: 2-0 vs. Abzan Ajani and Gideon walkers plus Snake. We ground out our first game for quite a while. She plays ajani walker on turn 5 thanks to oath of ajani. I attack it with Heart and a 2 drop. She drops Gideon next turn and the grind commences! It was a very close game. Next game I go first and have way too much steam sticking a turn 2 elephant followed up with Riskar, Peema renegade.
Match 3: 2-1 G/B delirium with Snake! I smartly block his early Grim Flayer with my Voltiac brawler when he attacks on his turn 3, him on the play. Because of this, he can't hit delirium off of Mindwrack Demon and eats 4 to the face for two turns while I sit tight and build my board. I eat Mindwrack with a buffed heart of kiran and take over from there. One game he plays a nasty Walking Ballista with two Winding Constrictors out. He proceeds to pummel me despite my massive board presence.
Match 4: 1-2 vs. Green/White walker tokens He's playing Gideon and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar. I can't wade through the tokens. A couple of very close games. I lost my last game with 9 lands on the field and 4 lands in hand with him at 1 life. Should have won, just bad luck there.
LESSONS:
My greatest strength was taking out all of the Aether Hubs in favor of 3 forest and a cinder glade. Aether hub can't do anything relevant with aether hub out. Being able to consistenly play elephant turn 2 won me many a game.
I don't think the deck needs 4 elephant, 4 brawler, 4 servant AND 4 cub. My deck lacked reach. Upping the count of tireless trackers in favor of a cub and servant seemed like the right move in my next round of swiss.
3 Riskhar mainboard seemed to be too many. We really loose our momentum if we are holding a Rishkar in hand with one on the board.
We are going to want access to both Shock, Harnessed Lightning, and Incendiary Flow (possibly Collective Defiance and Goblin Darkdwellers? We need Incendiary flow to kill the b/g snake counter and to hit planeswalker's directly. Walkers, especially Gideon are bad news for us. Heart of Kiran was pretty good. It's a little awkward against opponents playing good removal as we may not be able to crew it. Chandra with heart out is pretty nuts!
Match 1: 1-2 vs. Aetherworks marvel, AND Saheeli Rai Cat 4 color deck. Yes, you read that right. It was quite functional. I snuck in for a win on the play. Lost one game due to a misplay not understanding the combo well enough. We can beat this deck on the play if we side in all of our burn and low cost creatures.
Match 2: 2-0 U/B control. This was perhaps my worst match up of the entire night. He was Grasp of Darknessing everywhere and then flashing back with Torrential Gearhulk. I had been wondering if I really needed 4 Blossoming defense in the 75 up until now. Yes, yes we do. Khalitas killed me quite well also eating up all of my creatures and turning them into zombies with all of the removal.
Match 3 By
Match 4 2-1 r/w human artifacts
I think the deck wants to go a little more midrange to fight control better and have more reach. I find I don't mind having 3 Servant of the Conduit. By playing more basic lands and dual lands, we just don't need to mana fix really. The mana curve was really tight on this. I rarely mulliganed ever. Kept a 1 land winning hand with 2 attune with aether in there as well.
My next list for tomorrow will look something like this:
Thanks for the report. I noticed 1 thing in your list and your report.
In Round 1 you said you couldn't get past the opponent tokens. Then i noticed why...you have 0 pump spells. Not even Blossoming defense to defend your own creatures (something that should be 4-of MD not in side.)
Your strategy was to attack your opponent with your creatures and killing theirs with your 6 "removals". That basically leaves you open to every deck who can play your same amount of creatures, or has a high number of removals.
I think that was the main issue you had with your deck.
P.S. Aether Hub (with Servant of the Conduit) Is also used to get Blue mana on G2, and side in blue cards (negate in my case) to handle control decks.
I saw, in many lists, the new card Greenbelt Rampager. Now...i've never been a fan of Longtusk Cub, cos it doesn't add any energy, being it a dead drop middle late game top deck, and i see the same issue with the Rampager. It is NOT a 1-drop, since u cannot play it on T1, and on T2 it cost GG. When you manage to play it, it sucks you 2 Energy giving you a 3/4 body with no abilities in return.
Can anyone explain me the reasoning behind playing it??
Basically you should never have to cast it for GG on t2, either you attune t1 and cast it turn 2 with that energy and have one mana left, or turn 3 alongside a voltaic brawler. It can also be used to crew vehicles while evading non-instant speed removal, or with a Longtusk Cub and Winding Constrictor on the board it can become a great energy source to fuel more +1/+1 counters. Yes, you can't ever play it t1 but that doesn't matter, it's a decent sized body that almost always only costs you G and it has a number of other utilities in the right deck. You should produce plenty of energy anyway so giving up 2 of it for the rampager is nbd.
And spending GG on turn two for a 3/4 is fine anyway. It's even better if you can follow it up with Rishkar, Peema Renegade.
"I don't think the deck needs 4 elephant, 4 brawler, 4 servant AND 4 cub. My deck lacked reach. Upping the count of tireless trackers in favor of a cub and servant seemed like the right move in my next round of swiss."
-> Yeah the deck needs ways of going into a midrange game. It's difficult to win just on the value of your threats. I play three Tireless Trackers to aid this (it also works with Heart of Kiran). I also would not play four Longtusk Cub. I think three is the most you can play, and two might be correct. When you have energy around, its amazing. Otherwise it's a bear that can't help itself.
"3 Riskhar mainboard seemed to be too many. We really loose our momentum if we are holding a Rishkar in hand with one on the board."
-> Odd. In games where I managed to play a two drop into Rishkar I basically won. It is awkward on its own though.
"I think the deck wants to go a little more midrange to fight control better and have more reach. I find I don't mind having 3 Servant of the Conduit. By playing more basic lands and dual lands, we just don't need to mana fix really. The mana curve was really tight on this. I rarely mulliganed ever. Kept a 1 land winning hand with 2 attune with aether in there as well."
-> I would strongly advice playing 20 lands if you're playing Attune with Aether. This will help prevent you from flooding out (but it will still happen). I mean I had 17 lands out against an opponent yesterday...
For those interested, I went 3-1. I lost to G/B Control but I didn't play the best and I also had 17 lands out game two (I had 30 nonlands all in a bunch from the bottom). I beat two janky decks and Saheeli Control, which really can't handle Shock/Haste.
I was happy with the deck overall. It does flood out and I can find myself just drawing lands -> Servant -> Attune which is no good. Oddly against control if this happens Longtusk Cub can become quite useful (just because we have so much energy).
Not sure about Bristling Hydra in the main. It's good against some decks but it didn't really do anything yesterday. It just made me three mana sometimes and cost four.
I would strongly advice playing 20 lands if you're playing Attune with Aether. This will help prevent you from flooding out (but it will still happen). I mean I had 17 lands out against an opponent yesterday...
I think this sample is a bit of an anomaly. With 20 lands and 4 attunes, it's reasonable to hit 4-5 mana, which is what the deck wants to do. Any less than that and your color requirements start getting sketchy. We're a deck trying to cast Greenbelt on t1 forG and Chandra on turn 4 for 2RR.
Not sure about Bristling Hydra in the main. It's good against some decks but it didn't really do anything yesterday. It just made me three mana sometimes and cost four.
I like Bristling Hydra. It's quite good against the bevy of spot removal and the inevitable control decks that are built to fight copycat. I'd at least give it another go.
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Of note, I've been fiddling with Energy lists this season, I just don't think red is quite good enough. White has been giving me the power level I need to push through midrange mirrors. Like others have said, lacking evasion is a huge issue for the deck. I've been playing a core green Bant aggro list that gives me Tamiyo and other sources to completely swing the board. Red doesn't really have that. If anything, we need a Stormbreath Dragon, Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, or Thunderbreak Regent style of card. Skyship Stalker isn't the card nor is Freejam Regent, nor Ulrich of the Krallenhorde, or even Mirrorwing Dragon. People have played Skysovereign, Consul Flagship but it's no Thundermaw Hellkite where you can just jam 4x. Right now, the deck is a bit stalled and we need some power level to push us beyond a good and servicable FNM deck.
I do think some of these lists would benefit a lot from a Skysovereign though.
I am still getting cards and tweaking my G/R build. I am debating on trying a fast G/R as I think reckless bushwhacker is a viable option right now. There are plenty of nice 1 drops we can use to curve out nicely. Kari Zev's expertise is another interesting card. Stealing a blocker, playing a free 2 or less spell (more removal or creature) could help you swing lethal turn 4-5 very well. A turn 3 bushwhacker/rampager would be one of the best case scenarios.
White is indeed a powerful color...if you can afford $120 for a playset of Gideons and $25 per Avacyn etc.. I got lucky and picked up chandra, torch of defiance's in pack openings and some trades. I see red as a no brainer just for her. She is so powerful and has won me many games. With smuggler's copter gone she can shine even more, not to mention brawler, shocks, harnessed lightning, and some of the other new toys in red. I think for an energy build G/R (or G/Rx) is the stronger color combo.
Interesting decklist Lugger. This looks very close to one of my drafts except for the skyship stalker. Never really considered him. No harnessed lightning either? Care to go over the deck a bit, also what would be your take on a bushwhacker based deck? I could use some of the more veteran deckbuilder's on this forums advice. I am thinking of starting with something like this:
Interesting decklist Lugger. This looks very close to one of my drafts except for the skyship stalker. Never really considered him. No harnessed lightning either? Care to go over the deck a bit, also what would be your take on a bushwhacker based deck? I could use some of the more veteran deckbuilder's on this forums advice. I am thinking of starting with something like this:
Obviously I will have to cut some creatures and tweak numbers.
Your list looks really good. I'd try some Kari Zev though. Her menace is better than you'd think. It can make combat difficult for your opponent.
Bushwhacker is a combo with Rampager that I haven't thought about. That's pretty sweet.
Hellion might be ok here, since you're faster than typical but I'm usually never sold on the card.
Anyway, give it a go and let us know. My list was more of a "here's an idea" spew than anything else. If it inspired someone to work on something unique, that's pretty awesome.
Interesting decklist Lugger. This looks very close to one of my drafts except for the skyship stalker. Never really considered him. No harnessed lightning either? Care to go over the deck a bit, also what would be your take on a bushwhacker based deck? I could use some of the more veteran deckbuilder's on this forums advice. I am thinking of starting with something like this:
Obviously I will have to cut some creatures and tweak numbers.
I second Lugger. The list looks solid. The worst thing you can do with a deck is to try and do too many things at once. The deck loses focus and you get inconsistent draws. I do this all the time and it really bugs me. Your list looks very focussed and should be a good starting point for an aggro energy variant. Just be careful not to have any knee-jerk reactions to a few bad rounds/games. They'll happen no matter how good your deck is. Only consider changing if the thing you don't like happens frequently (say, you often draw way more lands than you want etc).
With that list you could probably run 20 lands. Your curve top is low and in a pinch Rishkar, Peema Renegade can generate you mana. I'd be tempted to run in Shock and Incendiary Flow instead of Harnessed Lightning for the simple reason they go to the face. You look like you can put out a lot of damage quickly and they'll aid you finishing the game quickly. You can always sideboard Harnessed Lightning for games where you need it, perhaps to bring in against decks running Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet (as you can't really race it).
Edit: Aethersphere Harvester might be worth considering, either in SB or main as an evasive beater that all your dudes can crew. Heck, Untethered Express could work in your deck. That card was nuts in limited. Infact I think I like it better than Fleetwheel Cruiser for what you have - it even beats Mindwrack Demon when it attacks for the first time!
The biggest downfall I've had is not keeping creatures on board, and this would help with that.
As strong as voltaic Brawler is, can one make a case for monogreen energy with the new trick that adds +3 and gives energy?
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Did you guys see Max McVety`s list? Combo in the main, midrange in the side. Why choose one? It makes a lot of sense, as combo lists can`t sideboard too much anyway. Also plenty of removal in both main and side to deal with the copycat combo.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
4 Bristling Hydra
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Electrostatic Pummeler
4 Servant of the Conduit
1 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
Instant:
3 rush of adrenaline
4 Uncaged Fury
4 Blossoming Defense
1 Invigorated Rampage
4 Aether Hub
2 Cinder Glade
4 Game Trail
7 Forest
3 Mountain
Sorcery:
4 Larger Than Life
4 Attune with Aether
2 Shock
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 hellion
2 Natural State
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Arlinn Kord
So this is what I'm bringing to standard tomorrow, Renegade elf is great way to make my opp use up removal, I think he's good for a one-of that can be SB'd out for a PW once I know what I'm facing. I also would be adding more Rampage if my shop has them, but I only pulled one from my box.
Here to ask a few questions. How has the matchup against GB counters/Delirium been ?
It seems to me that the GR energy version linked here
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=111141
has an okay matchup against it, unless they drop back to back mindwrack demon. Lathnu hellion actually put a lot of pressure on them.
What do you guys think ?
I actually like this list. Most cards are reasonable and has round-about ways of dealing with Demon.
Like most fair midrange decks, if you get behind GB you probably can't win -- unless you've got random stuff like Fumigate post-board.
I've been testing a 4-Color Energy list:
4x Longtusk Cub
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
2x Cultivator's Caravan
2x Fairgrounds Warden
4x Woodland Wanderer
2x undetermined 5 drop
3x Tamiyo, Field Researcher
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Attune with Aether
4x Inspiring Vantage
1x Spirebluff Canal
4x Aether Hub
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Canopy Vista
1x Lumbering Falls
4x Forest
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Island
1x Selfless Spirit
2x Spell Queller
2x Negate
2x Confiscation Coup
1x Ajani Unyielding
4x Shock
2x Radiant Flames
1x Natural Obsolescence
Four colors. That's ballsy. I find my consistently hampered by just splashing for a third. You ever find yourself not being able to curve out due to your manabase? If you can make it work then great, more colours = more goodies.
Glad to see this list doing well as it seems close to my own. I'm still unsure if I want to run Servant of the Conduit. The reason I have pulled it out is because it's not a great top deck and I didn't feel like the ramp was amazing in my deck, but 2 energy is 2 energy, so perhaps its better than Rishkar, Peema Renegade, which I added to help create better starts and as a hopefully better topdeck.
The problem against G/B is basically that they can go bigger than you and make a lot of your creatures irrelevant. It also makes running Shock MB worse, even if still not awful. I would have thought Kari Zev's Expertise would be useful SB tech against them. Essentially you just need a way of dealing with their bigger threats and you should be able to win as most of your threats are around the same level, but it's about dealing with those bigger threats. Winding Constrictor is a must-kill as well (but is weak on its own versus most of our deck). Blossoming Defense is probably also a good card in this matchup, both as a way to counter kill spells but also to help with the size of our creatures versus their own.
If they're running Mindwrack Demon and Verdurous Gearhulk, then yeah, I can see that matchup being particularly difficult. I would have thought Aethersphere Harvester would be useful here. I still don't like it MB though.
I think you are right about playing Heart of Kiran. I'm trying to include it in my lists too. The fact that Chandra can naturally fit into the deck, plus our low cost 3 power creatures=lots of crewing. Also, our deck can get clogged up on the ground vs. aggro so I see heart as a natural fit. My guess is that heart is better than Aethersphere Harvester because we can turn 2 heart, turn 3 brawler or Servant or attune+Greenbelt Rampager to get in for 4 flying damage on turn 3. I'm skeptical about you running only 20 lands in the deck however. Especially without servant of the conduit, the deck will have too many bad hands or slow starts. As lugger has pointed out, Ramppager costs 3 green mana if you don't have the energy support.
Here's a list I'm looking at playing at the San Jose GP this weekend. Please let me know your thoughts! I'm curious, is Goblin Darkdwellers worth considering sideboard? With all of our removal, it seems like it could work. Is it nota s good as gearhulk and Skysovereign?
4x Voltiac Brawler
3x Longtusk Cub
3x Servant of the Conduit
3x Riskar, Peema Renegade
4x Bristling Hydra
2x Heart of Kiran
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Blossoming Defense
3x Shock
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Aether Hub
4x Game Trail
2x Cinderglade
7x Forest
5x Mountain
3x Blossoming Defense
4x Incendiary Flow
1x Shock
2x Kari Zev's Expertise
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2x Goblin Darkdwellers
Im new to the deck and this list intrigues me. How would one sideboard into the midrange version?
Guys have you noticed htat a lot of the 5-0 list on MODO are temmur energy or pummeler combo ? Must be viable then ! Or maybe there is not many GB counters deck on MODO ?
From the looks of it, Aether Revolt isn't out on MODO yet.
Edit: MODO prerelease was this past weekend, I think? MODO players will have to check me on this.
I think you need to stick Tireless Trackers in there. They've never let me down, and they crew Kiran. I haven't been liking Longtusk Cubs on the mainboard ever since I've been using Greenbelt Rampager and Heart of Kiran. They are great on the play certainly, but they can get some dead situations and that's always felt bad. There's a limit I feel to what can suck in energy, and the Cub is one that sometimes never can even provide any. Especially against GB Counters in my test games. I actually dropped the Cubs completely, and switched to a Lathnu Hellion sideboard. Here's what I've shaped into after testing:
4 Aether Hub
2 Cinder Glade
9 Forest
4 Game Trail
2 Mountain
//Artifacts
2 Heart of Kiran
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
//Instants
4 Harnessed Lightning
//Sorceries
4 Attune with Aether
1 Incendiary Flow
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
//Creatures
3 Bristling Hydra
4 Greenbelt Rampager
2 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Verdurous Gearhulk
4 Voltaic Brawler
1 Kari Zev's Expertise
1 Incendiary Flow
3 Lathnu Hellion
1 Tears of Valakut
3 Natural State
1 Root Out
4 Shock
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
Not sure on Goblin Dark-Dwellers. It's one of my favourite cards but I just don't feel like you have enough cards to flashback with it. I certainly would not board it in unless you're also adding Incendiary Flow and the like. Flashbacking Attune with Aether does not seem that appealing to me.
As another commenter said, you want Tireless Tracker. It just works. I would suggest trying to keep to 24 creatures or as close to if you can.
The 20 lands is not as bad as you think it is. I started with 22, kept flooding out, then went down to 21 and... kept flooding out. In playtesting, I have found myself needing to mulligan more, but I'm more often drawing relevant cards over dead-weight lands. I've also added Servant of the Conduit to my list and moved Lathnu Hellion to the sideboard.
Quoting Kevinsera list cos i'm too lazy to make my own, and cos 99% of my list is that. I use Lathnu Hellions, Hanweir Garrison and Rush of Adrenaline but stil woking the numbers.
I agree with what Kevin said BUT i have a question for everyone.
I saw, in many lists, the new card Greenbelt Rampager. Now...i've never been a fan of Longtusk Cub, cos it doesn't add any energy, being it a dead drop middle late game top deck, and i see the same issue with the Rampager. It is NOT a 1-drop, since u cannot play it on T1, and on T2 it cost GG. When you manage to play it, it sucks you 2 Energy giving you a 3/4 body with no abilities in return.
Can anyone explain me the reasoning behind playing it??
And on a side note, why so few play Hanweir Garrison. It is a great middle/late game creature if things don't go as planned and you cant close the game fast enough. Plus it gives your 2 tokens on each attack in case u need blockers later on, or you need creatures to survive opponent removals.
First round of swiss, a very close 3:1.
4x Voltiac Brawler
4x Longtusk Cub
3x Servant of the Conduit
1x Tireless Tracker
3x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4x Bristling Hydra
2x Heart of Kiran
3x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2x Incendiary Flow
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Game Trail
3x Cinder glade
9x Forest
6x Mountain
4x Blossoming Defense
4x Shock
1x Nissa, Vital Force
2x Incendiary Flow
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1x Tireless Tracker
Match 1: 2-0 can't remember my opponent's deck, but I won easily
Match 2: 2-0 vs. Abzan Ajani and Gideon walkers plus Snake. We ground out our first game for quite a while. She plays ajani walker on turn 5 thanks to oath of ajani. I attack it with Heart and a 2 drop. She drops Gideon next turn and the grind commences! It was a very close game. Next game I go first and have way too much steam sticking a turn 2 elephant followed up with Riskar, Peema renegade.
Match 3: 2-1 G/B delirium with Snake! I smartly block his early Grim Flayer with my Voltiac brawler when he attacks on his turn 3, him on the play. Because of this, he can't hit delirium off of Mindwrack Demon and eats 4 to the face for two turns while I sit tight and build my board. I eat Mindwrack with a buffed heart of kiran and take over from there. One game he plays a nasty Walking Ballista with two Winding Constrictors out. He proceeds to pummel me despite my massive board presence.
Match 4: 1-2 vs. Green/White walker tokens He's playing Gideon and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar. I can't wade through the tokens. A couple of very close games. I lost my last game with 9 lands on the field and 4 lands in hand with him at 1 life. Should have won, just bad luck there.
LESSONS:
My greatest strength was taking out all of the Aether Hubs in favor of 3 forest and a cinder glade. Aether hub can't do anything relevant with aether hub out. Being able to consistenly play elephant turn 2 won me many a game.
I don't think the deck needs 4 elephant, 4 brawler, 4 servant AND 4 cub. My deck lacked reach. Upping the count of tireless trackers in favor of a cub and servant seemed like the right move in my next round of swiss.
3 Riskhar mainboard seemed to be too many. We really loose our momentum if we are holding a Rishkar in hand with one on the board.
We are going to want access to both Shock, Harnessed Lightning, and Incendiary Flow (possibly Collective Defiance and Goblin Darkdwellers? We need Incendiary flow to kill the b/g snake counter and to hit planeswalker's directly. Walkers, especially Gideon are bad news for us.
Heart of Kiran was pretty good. It's a little awkward against opponents playing good removal as we may not be able to crew it. Chandra with heart out is pretty nuts!
Round 2 was not as great. 2-2 for matches.
4x Voltiac Brawler
3x Longtusk Cub
3x Servant of the Conduit
2x Tireless Tracker
2x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4x Bristling Hydra
2x Heart of Kiran
3x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2x Incendiary Flow
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Game Trail
3x Cinder glade
9x Forest
6x Mountain
4x Blossoming Defense
4x Shock
1x Nissa, Vital Force
2x Incendiary Flow
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1x Tireless Tracker
Match 1: 1-2 vs. Aetherworks marvel, AND Saheeli Rai Cat 4 color deck. Yes, you read that right. It was quite functional. I snuck in for a win on the play. Lost one game due to a misplay not understanding the combo well enough. We can beat this deck on the play if we side in all of our burn and low cost creatures.
Match 2: 2-0 U/B control. This was perhaps my worst match up of the entire night. He was Grasp of Darknessing everywhere and then flashing back with Torrential Gearhulk. I had been wondering if I really needed 4 Blossoming defense in the 75 up until now. Yes, yes we do. Khalitas killed me quite well also eating up all of my creatures and turning them into zombies with all of the removal.
Match 3 By
Match 4 2-1 r/w human artifacts
I think the deck wants to go a little more midrange to fight control better and have more reach. I find I don't mind having 3 Servant of the Conduit. By playing more basic lands and dual lands, we just don't need to mana fix really. The mana curve was really tight on this. I rarely mulliganed ever. Kept a 1 land winning hand with 2 attune with aether in there as well.
My next list for tomorrow will look something like this:
4x Voltiac Brawler
3x Longtusk Cub
3x Servant of the Conduit
3x Tireless Tracker
2x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
3x Bristling Hydra
2x Heart of Kiran
3x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Nissa, Vital Force
2x Incendiary Flow
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Game Trail
3x Cinder glade
9x Forest
6x Mountain
4x Blossoming Defense
4x Shock
1x Nissa, Vital Force
2x Incendiary Flow
1x Longtusk Cub
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Bristling Hydra
2x Lifecrafter's Beastiary
In Round 1 you said you couldn't get past the opponent tokens. Then i noticed why...you have 0 pump spells. Not even Blossoming defense to defend your own creatures (something that should be 4-of MD not in side.)
Your strategy was to attack your opponent with your creatures and killing theirs with your 6 "removals". That basically leaves you open to every deck who can play your same amount of creatures, or has a high number of removals.
I think that was the main issue you had with your deck.
P.S.
Aether Hub (with Servant of the Conduit) Is also used to get Blue mana on G2, and side in blue cards (negate in my case) to handle control decks.
And spending GG on turn two for a 3/4 is fine anyway. It's even better if you can follow it up with Rishkar, Peema Renegade.
At FNM at last it allowed me to produce some pretty nice nut draws. Going Servant of the Conduit turn two into Rishkar, Peema Renegade -> Greenbelt Rampager turn three was quite nice.
@JaishivaJai:
"I don't think the deck needs 4 elephant, 4 brawler, 4 servant AND 4 cub. My deck lacked reach. Upping the count of tireless trackers in favor of a cub and servant seemed like the right move in my next round of swiss."
-> Yeah the deck needs ways of going into a midrange game. It's difficult to win just on the value of your threats. I play three Tireless Trackers to aid this (it also works with Heart of Kiran). I also would not play four Longtusk Cub. I think three is the most you can play, and two might be correct. When you have energy around, its amazing. Otherwise it's a bear that can't help itself.
"3 Riskhar mainboard seemed to be too many. We really loose our momentum if we are holding a Rishkar in hand with one on the board."
-> Odd. In games where I managed to play a two drop into Rishkar I basically won. It is awkward on its own though.
"I think the deck wants to go a little more midrange to fight control better and have more reach. I find I don't mind having 3 Servant of the Conduit. By playing more basic lands and dual lands, we just don't need to mana fix really. The mana curve was really tight on this. I rarely mulliganed ever. Kept a 1 land winning hand with 2 attune with aether in there as well."
-> I would strongly advice playing 20 lands if you're playing Attune with Aether. This will help prevent you from flooding out (but it will still happen). I mean I had 17 lands out against an opponent yesterday...
For those interested, I went 3-1. I lost to G/B Control but I didn't play the best and I also had 17 lands out game two (I had 30 nonlands all in a bunch from the bottom). I beat two janky decks and Saheeli Control, which really can't handle Shock/Haste.
My list was:
3x Bristling Hydra
4x Greenbelt Rampager
3x Longtusk Cub
3x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4x Servant of the Conduit
3x Tireless Tracker
4x Voltaic Brawler
Sorcery (4)
4x Attune with Aether
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Land (20)
4x Aether Hub
2x Cinder Glade
7x Forest
4x Game Trail
3x Mountain
Instant (8)
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Shock
2x Heart of Kiran
3x Lathnu Hellion
2x Goldnight Castigator
3x Blossoming Defense
2x Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
2x Incendiary Flow
2x Natural State
I was happy with the deck overall. It does flood out and I can find myself just drawing lands -> Servant -> Attune which is no good. Oddly against control if this happens Longtusk Cub can become quite useful (just because we have so much energy).
Not sure about Bristling Hydra in the main. It's good against some decks but it didn't really do anything yesterday. It just made me three mana sometimes and cost four.
So, it should look like this.
I agree. The best green belt turns are t2 guy, t3 Rishkar, tap two drop for Rampager. That's a lot of power in 3 bodies by turn 3.
I think this sample is a bit of an anomaly. With 20 lands and 4 attunes, it's reasonable to hit 4-5 mana, which is what the deck wants to do. Any less than that and your color requirements start getting sketchy. We're a deck trying to cast Greenbelt on t1 forG and Chandra on turn 4 for 2RR.
I like Bristling Hydra. It's quite good against the bevy of spot removal and the inevitable control decks that are built to fight copycat. I'd at least give it another go.
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Of note, I've been fiddling with Energy lists this season, I just don't think red is quite good enough. White has been giving me the power level I need to push through midrange mirrors. Like others have said, lacking evasion is a huge issue for the deck. I've been playing a core green Bant aggro list that gives me Tamiyo and other sources to completely swing the board. Red doesn't really have that. If anything, we need a Stormbreath Dragon, Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, or Thunderbreak Regent style of card. Skyship Stalker isn't the card nor is Freejam Regent, nor Ulrich of the Krallenhorde, or even Mirrorwing Dragon. People have played Skysovereign, Consul Flagship but it's no Thundermaw Hellkite where you can just jam 4x. Right now, the deck is a bit stalled and we need some power level to push us beyond a good and servicable FNM deck.
I do think some of these lists would benefit a lot from a Skysovereign though.
White is indeed a powerful color...if you can afford $120 for a playset of Gideons and $25 per Avacyn etc.. I got lucky and picked up chandra, torch of defiance's in pack openings and some trades. I see red as a no brainer just for her. She is so powerful and has won me many games. With smuggler's copter gone she can shine even more, not to mention brawler, shocks, harnessed lightning, and some of the other new toys in red. I think for an energy build G/R (or G/Rx) is the stronger color combo.
4x Greenbelt Rampager
3x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
4x Voltaic Brawler
3x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
3x Pia Nalaar
2x Fleetwheel Cruiser
2x Skyship Stalker
4x Shock
4x Blossoming Defense
4x Incendiary Flow
4x Game Trail
2x Cinder Glade
8x Forest
7x Mountain
Interesting decklist Lugger. This looks very close to one of my drafts except for the skyship stalker. Never really considered him. No harnessed lightning either? Care to go over the deck a bit, also what would be your take on a bushwhacker based deck? I could use some of the more veteran deckbuilder's on this forums advice. I am thinking of starting with something like this:
4 narnam renegade
4 greenbelt rampager
4 voltaic brawler
4 longtusk cub
4 reckless bushwhacker
3 rishkar, peema renegade
4 lathnu hellion
4 fleetwheel cruiser
Obviously I will have to cut some creatures and tweak numbers.
Your list looks really good. I'd try some Kari Zev though. Her menace is better than you'd think. It can make combat difficult for your opponent.
Bushwhacker is a combo with Rampager that I haven't thought about. That's pretty sweet.
Hellion might be ok here, since you're faster than typical but I'm usually never sold on the card.
Anyway, give it a go and let us know. My list was more of a "here's an idea" spew than anything else. If it inspired someone to work on something unique, that's pretty awesome.
I second Lugger. The list looks solid. The worst thing you can do with a deck is to try and do too many things at once. The deck loses focus and you get inconsistent draws. I do this all the time and it really bugs me. Your list looks very focussed and should be a good starting point for an aggro energy variant. Just be careful not to have any knee-jerk reactions to a few bad rounds/games. They'll happen no matter how good your deck is. Only consider changing if the thing you don't like happens frequently (say, you often draw way more lands than you want etc).
With that list you could probably run 20 lands. Your curve top is low and in a pinch Rishkar, Peema Renegade can generate you mana. I'd be tempted to run in Shock and Incendiary Flow instead of Harnessed Lightning for the simple reason they go to the face. You look like you can put out a lot of damage quickly and they'll aid you finishing the game quickly. You can always sideboard Harnessed Lightning for games where you need it, perhaps to bring in against decks running Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet (as you can't really race it).
Edit: Aethersphere Harvester might be worth considering, either in SB or main as an evasive beater that all your dudes can crew. Heck, Untethered Express could work in your deck. That card was nuts in limited. Infact I think I like it better than Fleetwheel Cruiser for what you have - it even beats Mindwrack Demon when it attacks for the first time!