As mentioned above, I think yoiu misunderstand - the point of Pummeler isn't t obe a small aggro - the point is to win with combo or with large evasive creatures.
So I've been playing Pummeler since around the 2nd week after Kaladesh's release. I've piloted the deck to 2nd place finishes at PPTQ's (literally always lost first place to god damn Reflector Mage) and have earned enough tickets with the deck on MTGO to buy myself BG Delirium. I'm mentioning this so you don't think my opinion comes from someone who has no experience playing the deck.
I completely agree with your point that the goal, the objective of Pummeler, is to play Pummeler, play LtL/Rampage, pump it twice and smash for 20. You know how often that actually happens for me? Tops maybe 15% of all my games. Look at most of the creatures this deck runs: Bristling Hydra, Longtusk Cub, Servant of the Conduit, Electrostatic Pummeler, Voltaic Brawler. Of those one one of them has any form of evasion. And it's temporary, not always online evasion. So your statement of "to win or combo with large evasive creatures" is factually incorrect.
The point of Pummeler is to use a large number of low to the ground efficient creatures where you are able to take advantage of insane pumpspells and knock your opponent flat on their face.
I definitely agree with you, Pummeler isn't at all about being a small aggro deck. But including Enerphant doesn't make it small aggro. It makes the deck a more efficient beat down and combo deck because you have access to more efficient creatures to destroy your opponent with.
The elephant is really good, anybody saying the contrary hasn't played with it yet.
Would you mind sharing your combo list? I'll go back to pummeller combo for the first week or so and I'm still on the fence on how many pump spells I should run.
The elephant is really good, anybody saying the contrary hasn't played with it yet.
Would you mind sharing your combo list? I'll go back to pummeller combo for the first week or so and I'm still on the fence on how many pump spells I should run.
I had my list posted above, but I'll post it again:
4x Blossoming Defense - Pretty Obvious. Defense is great. It pumps, it protects, it gives brings you tea when you're feeling ill. Perfect 4 of
4x Invigorated Rampage - 100% a better Larger than Life. The deck never really needed the toughness boost from LtL, so getting rid of the toughness increase to make this spell instant speed is insane. Add to that the fact that you can spread it across two creatures makes it mind-bogglingly great
3x Larger Than Life - Obviously, including Rampage, makes LtL not as good, but it is still a great pump spell. Personally I think LtL is better than Uncaged Fury since it costs less, and gives more stats. While the Double Strike from Fury is great, the pump is mediocre enough where I've never really liked it.
Still working on the sideboard, but so far it looks like so:
Hey guys. The GB tokens deck is sweet but lets keep the discussion to a minimum -- there is a GB counters thread floating around if you're interested.
Presumably, by PT Aether Revolt, there will be some sort of GB counters deck but it probably doesn't look anything like a GRx Energy deck.
People have to get over this "Oh I want to post G/B decklist/talk about G/B counters in the G/R energy forum". This isn't the place for it. Their is a G/B counters forum already on the site, just go talk about it there. People go on "this forum" to talk about about G/r/x energy decks, no matter the version (Midrange,Combo,Gruul,Jund,etc.). Lugger already said to keep the G/B talk to a minimum on this forum, as stated above.
The reasoning behind larger than life is the +4 on toughtness. I still find larger than life usefull, even if it's a sorcery speed.
The reason why the +4 is good in my opinion is that rg aggro is an anormal aggro deck. My list has 23 creatures, while normal lists has 20 creatures; both numbers are low for an aggro deck, so you really want your creatures to stick around and beats as long as possible. Opponent will interact with you in two ways: removals ( you can't do anything about it ) and blockers. So, let's say your opponent use some removals on your creatures, we are now in a situation where he has only creatures interacting with yours and you have a voltaic brawler. Is it better a invigorated rampage or a larger than life in this situation?invigorated means pretty much some damages while you're losing your brawler. Larger than life means the same damages while brawler survives. This is the reason why I play it. In a deck with 25-30 creatures rampage is better, in our deck is not that better. If you lose your creatures, you're left with some useless pump spells in hand. For the same reason, I still like the 1-of of rush adrenaline. Sometimes I've used it as a protection spell, for example against harnessed lightning or grasp.
I'm testing some cards: I think rishkar is definetely in, maybe I could go to 3. It's really good as an aggro creature, and saves us from some situations where we are mana screwed.
Kari zev is good being a small creature but efficient with evasion,giving also one more body while attacking. Don't know if I want to play it in more copies though
I'll start by saying I still think Larger than Life is great for the deck. However with the release of Invigorated Rampage the card has become less useful. A big portion of this does come down to the fact that in a lot of situations, the 4 toughness you get from LtL is useless. I can count on my hands the number of times I have used LtL just to push through for a turn, rather than use it for a turn where my opponent is just straight dead. In these fringe scenarios, sure having the extra toughness to keep your creature alive can matter. However when your opponent dies when they take the damage, you don't care if your entire board will get killed by combat damage. Your opponent just died, the game is over.
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So I've been playing Pummeler since around the 2nd week after Kaladesh's release. I've piloted the deck to 2nd place finishes at PPTQ's (literally always lost first place to god damn Reflector Mage) and have earned enough tickets with the deck on MTGO to buy myself BG Delirium. I'm mentioning this so you don't think my opinion comes from someone who has no experience playing the deck.
I completely agree with your point that the goal, the objective of Pummeler, is to play Pummeler, play LtL/Rampage, pump it twice and smash for 20. You know how often that actually happens for me? Tops maybe 15% of all my games. Look at most of the creatures this deck runs: Bristling Hydra, Longtusk Cub, Servant of the Conduit, Electrostatic Pummeler, Voltaic Brawler. Of those one one of them has any form of evasion. And it's temporary, not always online evasion. So your statement of "to win or combo with large evasive creatures" is factually incorrect.
The point of Pummeler is to use a large number of low to the ground efficient creatures where you are able to take advantage of insane pumpspells and knock your opponent flat on their face.
I definitely agree with you, Pummeler isn't at all about being a small aggro deck. But including Enerphant doesn't make it small aggro. It makes the deck a more efficient beat down and combo deck because you have access to more efficient creatures to destroy your opponent with.
I cannot and don't want to doubt you as a player.
By evasion I mean that there is a lot of trample in the deck - doesn't matter if it is written on creature or pump spells and I run two Key to the City main and another one in SB, so indeed the evasion aspect is more relevant for me.
I played with Emerphant and it felt like waste of energy to me - every other creature is enabler for Pummeler, this isn't - I guess in a similar fashion to Hellion, which I also don't run.
3x Larger Than Life - Obviously, including Rampage, makes LtL not as good, but it is still a great pump spell. Personally I think LtL is better than Uncaged Fury since it costs less, and gives more stats. While the Double Strike from Fury is great, the pump is mediocre enough where I've never really liked it.
Ungaced Fury is clunky and feels kind of expensive, but I think that cutting it in a pure combo list is a yuge mistake. It`s the card that lets us follow the rule of eight; a combo deck, with very few exceptions, must have more than four cards that win, or it won`t find them often enough. That`s why decks play Sneak Attack and Show and Tell and not just one of them, or Goryo`s Vengeance and Through the Breach, or Primeval Titan and Scapeshift. You also have 8-rack (Shrieking Affliction made that deck playable) and 8-whack. Following this tradition, this deck could be called "Pummeler and Fury" or "Uncaged Pummeler", or "8-doubles". Those are some stupid ass names that I do not propose that we ever use, but you get the point; giving a creature pump + double strike is our "other" path to victory after Pummeler.
Then again, a pure combo list probably doesn`t want to play Rampager either, so maybe you`re going hybrid on purpose, what do I know.
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I cannot and don't want to doubt you as a player.
By evasion I mean that there is a lot of trample in the deck - doesn't matter if it is written on creature or pump spells and I run two Key to the City main and another one in SB, so indeed the evasion aspect is more relevant for me.
I played with Emerphant and it felt like waste of energy to me - every other creature is enabler for Pummeler, this isn't - I guess in a similar fashion to Hellion, which I also don't run.
Okay if you're including the pump spells, sure the deck has a lot of trample damage. But....the Enerphant can also be the target of those pump spells, so I don't see the issue. The issue that it uses Energy isn't an issue at all. Before Aether Revolt I ran Hellion and that card was amazing in the deck. Enerphant uses up 2 energy the turn it comes in and that's it. Hellion uses 2 energy every turn. Huge difference!
As for contributing to Pummeler, you need to realize this isn't a combo deck. It's an aggro deck with combo potential. If the deck had access to say 8 or more Pummelers then sure, it can be a combo deck. But as is, there isn't enough consistency for it to be a combo deck.
On a side note, how have the Negates and the Island been working out for you as sideboard options?
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When you talk about Uncaged Fury in this deck, generally it feels like a plan B. I rarely use the fury WITH the pummler itself. Usually I cast Fury on a Voltaic Brawler or Hydra. If they are targeting your Pummler or just don't get one, dealing 10 damage in a single swing from one of the other two pushes their clock quickly.
For that same reason, I only run 2 because it's not main win condition, but second attack approach.
Key to the city doesn't impress me with the now ~14 sources of trample. Between Brawlers, Smash, Larger and Rampage, I'd rather have a way to make my guys bigger.
Tireless tracker is a great card, but seems like it's just a filler and doesn't make the deck better. One clue creator in whole deck means one +1/+1 and draw one card. Harnessed Lightning gives you options atleast to kill something or gain 3 energy which can fuel another Pummeler or Hydra or cub boost.
Yes the +4/+4 is better protection on larger than life than Invigorated rampage. EXCEPT if you are targeting pummeler, instant speed means you can cast Invig after their removal and pump the pummeler afterwards giving in effect +5 health at that point. Very rarely has the +4 backend mattered on larger than life because they target with instant speed removal while its on the stack. Built to smash at +3/+3 as instant is better for saving from removal.
My concern with invig is the mana base. We are heavily green tilted for creatures but now leaning strongly red on pump spells make it harder to effectively use all mana properly.
Yeah I am actually a little confused when I don't see a list running Harnessed Lightning. The card is just straight gasoline in this deck. I only run 3 in my list because I find you can in fact draw too many of them while you most definitely want 1 every game.
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When I played pummeler lists I always felt uncaged fury was a bit meh because it limits your ability to cast other buffs so unless you already have a ton of energy to pour into cub or hydra counters it doesn't tend to outright kill. I mean, realistically you need fury, one of the trample spells (or voltaic brawler), and a decent sized creature on the board (or one you can pump that turn with energy) to fully combo into a one hit kill. You're relying on a lot of things going right and your opponent not reacting to you to pull that off. It's great for the hilarious 96/96 doublestrike pummeler but those occasions are very rare.
It's an aggro deck with combo potential more than a straight up combo deck, it was never a pure combo list because the only realistic combo kill is via pummeler which, as you say, is only a 4-of which is not sufficient to guarantee the combo. The rampager is a great body that you can virtually always put down for G on turn 2 or any later turn. It uses two energy but the deck makes so much energy that's not especially relevant. The power to put down two strong creatures turn 3, say a voltaic brawler and greenbelt rampager. Most of the time they'll have removal for one of them, but not more, then next turn you're casting a couple of buffs on whatever is left and swinging in for massive, ideally trample, damage. At best they make a poor trade and still take trample damage.
We have different approaches to the deck, and that`s completely fine. But I have to object to the bold part. I rarely cast Uncaged Fury on Pummeler, that`s only in a pinch. But Fury plus one of our 6-8 +4 power pump spell on Hydra lets you go in with 18 trample damage protected by hexproof. If you have enough energy to put a counter on Hydra and still protect it, it`s twenty. If it`s not enough, I can easily aggro out the rest of the damage. Hydra is my combo creature 5-8, without it a pure combo list wouldn`t be viable.
Does anyone have ideas about Aethersphere Harvester in the deck? It provides some EE and gives some speudohaste, flying and lifelink. I'm hesitant to put it in though, because between pump spells and other things, I may draw to few creatures.
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Sorry for replying this late, I didn't get a notification... and thank you for your opinions.
As we can see, it is not that simple to distinguish different variants of this deck. I see it primarily as a combo deck, because that is what I want t odo, but you are right that there aren't cards to make it a straight up combo deck. GR Energy benefits from the fact that most of the enablers are good aggro creatures, which give the deck a plan B.
I don't consider Hellion or Emerphant to be enablers for this deck and I also have different experience when it comes to available energy - I guess I spend it more proactively.
I used to run Uncaed Fury, but it was very disappointing in my experience - as said before, you need to have a pump spell as well and you need to target Hydra, because, when you have five lands, your opponent probably has a removal spell.
Negates and Island in sideboard are very good against Marvel, Panharmonicon or any other emerging combo and control decks out there.
Key to the City is not only a source of evasion, but it also provides filtering to find a creature, pump spell or to get rid of unwanted land. Key enabled me to win games by dropping a Cub or Hydra and attack 3-4 times making them unblockable and paying for Key to find pump spells. Key also opens games against BG when they are able to have enough large blockers.
Tireless Tracker is a sideboard swap for Pummelers against decks with Liliana, because we cannot protect them. I like the choice of Tracker because especially against those decks the card advantage is important and it works fine with Key - you just look for lands, grow it and draw cards.
I found Harnessed Lightning to be mostly used just for the energy. There are too few creatures I care to destroy, mostly Gisela I guess and for that I have sideboard. So once I realized I use it just for energy I decided to run a pump spell instead, because it gives me a better chance of winning than adding three energy.
I don't think there is any concern to be had about mana with Rampage - we run 14 red sources t obve ableto play Brawler on turn 2 anyway.
So i think with invigorated rampage we now have enough trample triggers to built to smashes. I'm currently running the lossett 60, and am currently third in our FNM league. I'm thinking of going the less combo route by cutting 2 uncaged fury then maybe like i said the adrenaline rushes into built to smash for the instant speed plus toughness. then that leaves me 2 cards in thinking shock to help trick combat or check a planswalker emblem... What do you guys think? any opinions on harness lighting? Any ways love the thread guys lets keep it goin
So i think with invigorated rampage we now have enough trample triggers to built to smashes. I'm currently running the lossett 60, and am currently third in our FNM league. I'm thinking of going the less combo route by cutting 2 uncaged fury then maybe like i said the adrenaline rushes into built to smash for the instant speed plus toughness. then that leaves me 2 cards in thinking shock to help trick combat or check a planswalker emblem... What do you guys think? any opinions on harness lighting? Any ways love the thread guys lets keep it goin
I think that if you`re running 100% combo, then you should not run Harness Lightning. Lossett`s plan was to ignore the opponent`s creatures and just go through them, which is why he didn`t run them. If that`s your plan, every card in the 60 should push towards pulling a combo kill off.
If you want to go more interactive/chip aggro, it`s certainly a must-have card.
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Here's a list for our deck and some ideas. Would love to hear what you guys think. Thanks everyone that comes here regularly and discuss about this awesome deck we play.
So i think with invigorated rampage we now have enough trample triggers to built to smashes. I'm currently running the lossett 60, and am currently third in our FNM league. I'm thinking of going the less combo route by cutting 2 uncaged fury then maybe like i said the adrenaline rushes into built to smash for the instant speed plus toughness. then that leaves me 2 cards in thinking shock to help trick combat or check a planswalker emblem... What do you guys think? any opinions on harness lighting? Any ways love the thread guys lets keep it goin
I think that if you`re running 100% combo, then you should not run Harness Lightning. Lossett`s plan was to ignore the opponent`s creatures and just go through them, which is why he didn`t run them. If that`s your plan, every card in the 60 should push towards pulling a combo kill off.
If you want to go more interactive/chip aggro, it`s certainly a must-have card.
Even in a pure combo list, I think it's a mistake to cut Harnessed Lightning. A card that reads "1R: Double your Electrostatic Pummeler's power" goes a long way toward helping the combo, although it can be a little win-more at times. In addition, we can't pretend that every game is going to be magical Christmas wonderland, and Lightning buys time to find a Pummeler when things aren't going well.
I think Manfields presumption about not so removal dense format is very wrong as well as his decision to cut some Blossoming Defense from main. Ban of Copter will slow down the format and ban of Emrakul will enable control decks even further, because they don't have t ofear midrange decks with her, not t omention Dark Push. I would eve nargue, that our deck can quickly become unplayable once a good control decklist is established.
About the new cards - Rampage is awesome, but nothing else seems good enough to me.
Chapin mentions in Top Level Podcast combo of Emerphant + Servant + Paradox Engine. That could possibly lead to another combo heavy variant of this deck or can provide some sort of transformational sideboard.
Heart of Kiran should be able to do so work for us, especially in a midrange build playing Chandra. This list is much closer to a "traditional" R/G energy midrange deck. A few modifications should make good use out of Heart of Kiran and Chandra.
This deck has always needed more evasion. Despite playing only 3 walkers, we have plenty of cheap creatures with potential to crew the Heart. A midrange tends to like mainboarding 2-3 Chandra's anyway, so finding a bit of room for 3 copies of Heart isn't asking much, with great potential benefit.
One copy of Arlinn Kord instead of 3 Chandra's for durability and better Heart crew potential. Arlinn seems poised to have her moment in the spot light here. Without Smuggler's copter to smash her in the face, and our giant low cost creatures, we can help keep her alive. Note that her 0 ability also helps crew Heart! Cheap creatures with high power abound, 7 with evasion to take advantage of the +1 haste buff.
Kari Zev's Expertise is included in the sideboard. I mostly play my local FNM and an Aetherworks Marvel deck has been wreaking havoc there. We could put them in the kill zone if it's possible to steal an Ulamog.
I would like to find room for Rush of Adrenaline or possibly Lathnu Hellion somewhere in the 75.
Heart of Kiran and walkers have a natural defense to board wipes, which is nice. Heroic Intervention also negates board wipes. Now that I think about it, we can save our 2 targeted permanents Ulamog tries to exile upon entering the battlefield! That could be game winning with enough creatures on the board.
I've much preferred Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and/or a 3rd Chandra, Torch of Defiance over Arlinn Kord in the past. I didn't give her a shot in testing with the new meta which would certainly improve her, but I don't think her problems go away. She's not always on the flip side you want her to be, which creates situations where you have to delay what you want to do or chase the goal for the next turn. Besides, Heart of Kiran off Chandra's +1 is nuts. Which is why I've had a fantastic time with Heart of Kiran in testing.
Rush of Adrenaline is only for Pummeler builds. I'd rather just have a Shock in it's place. Kari Zev's Expertise has been doing some pretty good work against other Midrange and Marvel builds. I'm haven't quite convinced myself it isn't a win-more combination against Midrange though. I'm still testing it. Lathnu Hellion is definitely a sideboard card now for the Midrange build. Heroic Intervention really only protects us against Fumigate, given most of the real threats can ignore Radiant Flames. Besides, playing a board wipe into a board that has planeswalkers and vehicles is already soft countered. No need to overdo it, I'd rather have something hit the board afterwords to swing the Heart into. The one thing I think you are missing though is Tireless Tracker. It's not an energy card, but it's just too good to pass up. Between Chandra, the Trackers, and sometimes even a Nissa ultimate you can outgrind a lot of the Midrange and Control strategies out there right now.
Honestly, I wouldn't change a thing about my list thus far, but lets go over the match ups I played against today.
Round 1 - Fabricate-Panharnomicon
I found it first hand that there is one situation where Enerphant is compelete trash. When you opponent has an Eldrazi Displacer. Being able to for 3 mana just eat up your energy until the elephant gets bounced to your hand is disgusting. Because of how wide this deck went with it's tokens, I figured it would be a great test for the Dynavolt Tower sideboard shift. And holy cow did it work phenominally. Here is what I initially sideboarded:
After playing the games, I'd have rather taken out the Voltaic Brawlers instead of the Pummelers, and Dynavolt Tower gives you SO MUCH energy it's ridiculous. Game 2 I lethalled my opponent with a Hydra because I was able to just get 24 Energy out of nowhere.
Round 2 - Grixis Control
I felt kind of bad for my friend because he got mana screwed game 2 and game 1 I one-two punched him with a 20 damage pummeler with Blossoming Defense back up. This deck takes no prisoners.
Round 3 - UW Flash
Pummeler. Smash. Opponent. Die. While my victories weren't exactly do to Pummeler (game 2 I hit him with a 12 damage Servant of the Conduit) I did indeed smash. I am reminded of an old raid leader I once saw on the internet...."Hit it very hard!"
Round 4 - UG Aetherworks
So this was brutal. Between the two games we played my opponent was only able to activate Aetherworks Marvel twice, once in each game. In both instances he completely whiffed on the trigger and proceeded to die the next turn. This aggro deck doesn't have time for your silly shenanigans. Also the look on my opponent's face when I used Natural Obsolecence to put Marvel on the bottom of his library in response to him activating it was completely priceless.
So all in all the deck was great. Everything worked as it should, and at the moment I don't see any need to change any cards. I'll try to remember to post these little tournament reports as I play the deck, so hopefully the rest of you can gives your fellow magic players a good pummeling.
NOTE: I do not in fact endorse attacking other players. The world pummeling here is strictly for use as a metaphor
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I'm sort of thinking about something like this. You've got plenty of ways to fight over snek, with lightning and chandra. I foresee this possibly struggling with t2 snek into t3 threat on the draw vs gb. maybe sticking a t2 Rampager could help. I'm not entirely sure.
I'm sort of thinking about something like this. You've got plenty of ways to fight over snek, with lightning and chandra. I foresee this possibly struggling with t2 snek into t3 threat on the draw vs gb. maybe sticking a t2 Rampager could help. I'm not entirely sure.
I like your list. Splashing blue is definitely a valid option as the counter spells can really help in some matchups. Perhaps its the way I do my manabase but I can never get my mana to be consistent for the linear deck I want to play if I splash blue or any third colour.
Only thing I would say is that it appears to me your Game Trail's would often come in tapped. That may not be an issue for you with the deck, mind. How is Aethersphere Harvester been? I have never liked it in my list. It just seems to play a similar role as other creatures except it takes the spot of one.
This is my current decklist. Still tweaking and really need to give it a field test before I tweak it any further:
Not sure if I have enough energy productions, but I'm aiming for "enough" rather than an abundance. Also think I should cut down on the Lathnu Hellion's; they're great in most matchups unless your opponent goes bigger than you (read: G/B Counters). Drawing too many can sometimes be a nuisance.
There was a G/R energy list that got 2nd at Invi Qualifier Newington on January 21. The list seemed pretty good, it reads a full set of Greenbelt Rampager. Also runs a full set of Shock, is a full set needed?
The elephant is really good, anybody saying the contrary hasn't played with it yet.
Would you mind sharing your combo list? I'll go back to pummeller combo for the first week or so and I'm still on the fence on how many pump spells I should run.
I had my list posted above, but I'll post it again:
4x Aether Hub
4x Game Trail
2x Cinder Glade
7x Forest
3x Mountain
4x Greenbelt Rampager
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Electrostatic Pummeler
4x Bristling Hydra
4x Attune with Aether
4x Blossoming Defense
4x Invigorated Rampage
3x Harnessed Lightning
3x Larger Than Life
2x Incendiary Flow
I'll explain my reasoning for the pump spells:
4x Blossoming Defense - Pretty Obvious. Defense is great. It pumps, it protects, it gives brings you tea when you're feeling ill. Perfect 4 of
4x Invigorated Rampage - 100% a better Larger than Life. The deck never really needed the toughness boost from LtL, so getting rid of the toughness increase to make this spell instant speed is insane. Add to that the fact that you can spread it across two creatures makes it mind-bogglingly great
3x Larger Than Life - Obviously, including Rampage, makes LtL not as good, but it is still a great pump spell. Personally I think LtL is better than Uncaged Fury since it costs less, and gives more stats. While the Double Strike from Fury is great, the pump is mediocre enough where I've never really liked it.
Still working on the sideboard, but so far it looks like so:
3x Dynavolt Tower
2x Kari Zev's Expertise
2x Heroic Intervention
1x Incendiary Flow
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People have to get over this "Oh I want to post G/B decklist/talk about G/B counters in the G/R energy forum". This isn't the place for it. Their is a G/B counters forum already on the site, just go talk about it there. People go on "this forum" to talk about about G/r/x energy decks, no matter the version (Midrange,Combo,Gruul,Jund,etc.). Lugger already said to keep the G/B talk to a minimum on this forum, as stated above.
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I'll start by saying I still think Larger than Life is great for the deck. However with the release of Invigorated Rampage the card has become less useful. A big portion of this does come down to the fact that in a lot of situations, the 4 toughness you get from LtL is useless. I can count on my hands the number of times I have used LtL just to push through for a turn, rather than use it for a turn where my opponent is just straight dead. In these fringe scenarios, sure having the extra toughness to keep your creature alive can matter. However when your opponent dies when they take the damage, you don't care if your entire board will get killed by combat damage. Your opponent just died, the game is over.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
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I cannot and don't want to doubt you as a player.
By evasion I mean that there is a lot of trample in the deck - doesn't matter if it is written on creature or pump spells and I run two Key to the City main and another one in SB, so indeed the evasion aspect is more relevant for me.
I played with Emerphant and it felt like waste of energy to me - every other creature is enabler for Pummeler, this isn't - I guess in a similar fashion to Hellion, which I also don't run.
My current list:
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Electrostatic Pummeler
1 Tireless Tracker
4 Bristling Hydra
2 Built to Smash
4 Larger than Life
4 Invigorated Rampage
2 Key to the City
4 Aether Hub
4 Game Trail
9 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Plummet
1 Key to the City
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Nissa, Vital Force
3 Negate
1 Island
Then again, a pure combo list probably doesn`t want to play Rampager either, so maybe you`re going hybrid on purpose, what do I know.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Okay if you're including the pump spells, sure the deck has a lot of trample damage. But....the Enerphant can also be the target of those pump spells, so I don't see the issue. The issue that it uses Energy isn't an issue at all. Before Aether Revolt I ran Hellion and that card was amazing in the deck. Enerphant uses up 2 energy the turn it comes in and that's it. Hellion uses 2 energy every turn. Huge difference!
As for contributing to Pummeler, you need to realize this isn't a combo deck. It's an aggro deck with combo potential. If the deck had access to say 8 or more Pummelers then sure, it can be a combo deck. But as is, there isn't enough consistency for it to be a combo deck.
On a side note, how have the Negates and the Island been working out for you as sideboard options?
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
For that same reason, I only run 2 because it's not main win condition, but second attack approach.
Key to the city doesn't impress me with the now ~14 sources of trample. Between Brawlers, Smash, Larger and Rampage, I'd rather have a way to make my guys bigger.
Tireless tracker is a great card, but seems like it's just a filler and doesn't make the deck better. One clue creator in whole deck means one +1/+1 and draw one card.
Harnessed Lightning gives you options atleast to kill something or gain 3 energy which can fuel another Pummeler or Hydra or cub boost.
Yes the +4/+4 is better protection on larger than life than Invigorated rampage. EXCEPT if you are targeting pummeler, instant speed means you can cast Invig after their removal and pump the pummeler afterwards giving in effect +5 health at that point. Very rarely has the +4 backend mattered on larger than life because they target with instant speed removal while its on the stack. Built to smash at +3/+3 as instant is better for saving from removal.
My concern with invig is the mana base. We are heavily green tilted for creatures but now leaning strongly red on pump spells make it harder to effectively use all mana properly.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
• Call of Cthulhu CCG Servitor for the Netherlands!
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As we can see, it is not that simple to distinguish different variants of this deck. I see it primarily as a combo deck, because that is what I want t odo, but you are right that there aren't cards to make it a straight up combo deck. GR Energy benefits from the fact that most of the enablers are good aggro creatures, which give the deck a plan B.
I don't consider Hellion or Emerphant to be enablers for this deck and I also have different experience when it comes to available energy - I guess I spend it more proactively.
I used to run Uncaed Fury, but it was very disappointing in my experience - as said before, you need to have a pump spell as well and you need to target Hydra, because, when you have five lands, your opponent probably has a removal spell.
Negates and Island in sideboard are very good against Marvel, Panharmonicon or any other emerging combo and control decks out there.
Key to the City is not only a source of evasion, but it also provides filtering to find a creature, pump spell or to get rid of unwanted land. Key enabled me to win games by dropping a Cub or Hydra and attack 3-4 times making them unblockable and paying for Key to find pump spells. Key also opens games against BG when they are able to have enough large blockers.
Tireless Tracker is a sideboard swap for Pummelers against decks with Liliana, because we cannot protect them. I like the choice of Tracker because especially against those decks the card advantage is important and it works fine with Key - you just look for lands, grow it and draw cards.
I found Harnessed Lightning to be mostly used just for the energy. There are too few creatures I care to destroy, mostly Gisela I guess and for that I have sideboard. So once I realized I use it just for energy I decided to run a pump spell instead, because it gives me a better chance of winning than adding three energy.
I don't think there is any concern to be had about mana with Rampage - we run 14 red sources t obve ableto play Brawler on turn 2 anyway.
If you want to go more interactive/chip aggro, it`s certainly a must-have card.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13748&writer=Seth Manfield&articledate=1-20-2017
Three Aether Revolt Standard Decks to Prepare For
Feature Article from Seth Manfield
Even in a pure combo list, I think it's a mistake to cut Harnessed Lightning. A card that reads "1R: Double your Electrostatic Pummeler's power" goes a long way toward helping the combo, although it can be a little win-more at times. In addition, we can't pretend that every game is going to be magical Christmas wonderland, and Lightning buys time to find a Pummeler when things aren't going well.
About the new cards - Rampage is awesome, but nothing else seems good enough to me.
Chapin mentions in Top Level Podcast combo of Emerphant + Servant + Paradox Engine. That could possibly lead to another combo heavy variant of this deck or can provide some sort of transformational sideboard.
4x Voltiac Brawler
4x Longtusk Cub
4x Servant of the Conduit
3x Riksha, Peema Renegade
3x Bristling Hydra
3x Heart of Kiran
1x Arlinn Kord
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Blossoming Defense
1x Incendiary Flow
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Aether Hub
4x Game Trail
2x Cinderglade
7x Forest
5x Mountain
3x Blossoming Defense
3x Heroic Intervention
1x Nissa, Vital Force
3x Incendiary Flow
2x Kari Zev's Expertise
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
This deck has always needed more evasion. Despite playing only 3 walkers, we have plenty of cheap creatures with potential to crew the Heart. A midrange tends to like mainboarding 2-3 Chandra's anyway, so finding a bit of room for 3 copies of Heart isn't asking much, with great potential benefit.
One copy of Arlinn Kord instead of 3 Chandra's for durability and better Heart crew potential. Arlinn seems poised to have her moment in the spot light here. Without Smuggler's copter to smash her in the face, and our giant low cost creatures, we can help keep her alive. Note that her 0 ability also helps crew Heart! Cheap creatures with high power abound, 7 with evasion to take advantage of the +1 haste buff.
Kari Zev's Expertise is included in the sideboard. I mostly play my local FNM and an Aetherworks Marvel deck has been wreaking havoc there. We could put them in the kill zone if it's possible to steal an Ulamog.
I would like to find room for Rush of Adrenaline or possibly Lathnu Hellion somewhere in the 75.
Heart of Kiran and walkers have a natural defense to board wipes, which is nice. Heroic Intervention also negates board wipes. Now that I think about it, we can save our 2 targeted permanents Ulamog tries to exile upon entering the battlefield! That could be game winning with enough creatures on the board.
What do you think?
Rush of Adrenaline is only for Pummeler builds. I'd rather just have a Shock in it's place. Kari Zev's Expertise has been doing some pretty good work against other Midrange and Marvel builds. I'm haven't quite convinced myself it isn't a win-more combination against Midrange though. I'm still testing it. Lathnu Hellion is definitely a sideboard card now for the Midrange build. Heroic Intervention really only protects us against Fumigate, given most of the real threats can ignore Radiant Flames. Besides, playing a board wipe into a board that has planeswalkers and vehicles is already soft countered. No need to overdo it, I'd rather have something hit the board afterwords to swing the Heart into. The one thing I think you are missing though is Tireless Tracker. It's not an energy card, but it's just too good to pass up. Between Chandra, the Trackers, and sometimes even a Nissa ultimate you can outgrind a lot of the Midrange and Control strategies out there right now.
4x Aether Hub
4x Game Trail
2x Cinder Glade
7x Forest
3x Mountain
Creatures - 20
4x Greenbelt Rampager
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Electrostatic Pummeler
4x Bristling Hydra
4x Attune with Aether
4x Blossoming Defense
3x Harnessed Lightning
2x Incendiary Flow
4x Invigorated Rampage
3x Larger than Life
4x Galvanic Blast
3x Dynavolt Tower
3x Natural Obsolescence
2x Heroic Intervention
2x Kari Zev's Expertise
1x Incendiary Flow
Honestly, I wouldn't change a thing about my list thus far, but lets go over the match ups I played against today.
Round 1 - Fabricate-Panharnomicon
I found it first hand that there is one situation where Enerphant is compelete trash. When you opponent has an Eldrazi Displacer. Being able to for 3 mana just eat up your energy until the elephant gets bounced to your hand is disgusting. Because of how wide this deck went with it's tokens, I figured it would be a great test for the Dynavolt Tower sideboard shift. And holy cow did it work phenominally. Here is what I initially sideboarded:
-4 Electrostatic Pummeler, -3 Larger than Life, -4 Greenbelt Rampager
+3 Dynavolt Tower, +4 Galvanic Blast, +1 Incendiary Flow, +3 Natural Obsolescence
After playing the games, I'd have rather taken out the Voltaic Brawlers instead of the Pummelers, and Dynavolt Tower gives you SO MUCH energy it's ridiculous. Game 2 I lethalled my opponent with a Hydra because I was able to just get 24 Energy out of nowhere.
Round 2 - Grixis Control
I felt kind of bad for my friend because he got mana screwed game 2 and game 1 I one-two punched him with a 20 damage pummeler with Blossoming Defense back up. This deck takes no prisoners.
Round 3 - UW Flash
Pummeler. Smash. Opponent. Die. While my victories weren't exactly do to Pummeler (game 2 I hit him with a 12 damage Servant of the Conduit) I did indeed smash. I am reminded of an old raid leader I once saw on the internet...."Hit it very hard!"
Round 4 - UG Aetherworks
So this was brutal. Between the two games we played my opponent was only able to activate Aetherworks Marvel twice, once in each game. In both instances he completely whiffed on the trigger and proceeded to die the next turn. This aggro deck doesn't have time for your silly shenanigans. Also the look on my opponent's face when I used Natural Obsolecence to put Marvel on the bottom of his library in response to him activating it was completely priceless.
So all in all the deck was great. Everything worked as it should, and at the moment I don't see any need to change any cards. I'll try to remember to post these little tournament reports as I play the deck, so hopefully the rest of you can gives your fellow magic players a good pummeling.
NOTE: I do not in fact endorse attacking other players. The world pummeling here is strictly for use as a metaphor
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Dynavolt Tower does the work you'd want Shock for.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
4x Longtusk Cub
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Rogue Refiner
2x Aethersphere Harvester
4x Woodland Wanderer
1x Verdurous Gearhulk
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Attune with Aether
2x Revolutionary Rebuff
4x Botanical Sanctum
4x Spirebluff Canal
1x Blossoming Marsh
4x Game Trail
1x Evolving Wilds
3x Forest
1x Mountain
1x Island
4x Shock
2x Narnam Renegade
2x Goldnight Castigator
3x Negate
1x Natural Obsolence
1x Incendiary Flow
2x Confiscation Coup
I'm sort of thinking about something like this. You've got plenty of ways to fight over snek, with lightning and chandra. I foresee this possibly struggling with t2 snek into t3 threat on the draw vs gb. maybe sticking a t2 Rampager could help. I'm not entirely sure.
I like your list. Splashing blue is definitely a valid option as the counter spells can really help in some matchups. Perhaps its the way I do my manabase but I can never get my mana to be consistent for the linear deck I want to play if I splash blue or any third colour.
Only thing I would say is that it appears to me your Game Trail's would often come in tapped. That may not be an issue for you with the deck, mind. How is Aethersphere Harvester been? I have never liked it in my list. It just seems to play a similar role as other creatures except it takes the spot of one.
This is my current decklist. Still tweaking and really need to give it a field test before I tweak it any further:
4x Bristling Hydra
4x Greenbelt Rampager
3x Lathnu Hellion
3x Longtusk Cub
3x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
3x Tireless Tracker
4x Voltaic Brawler
2x Heart of Kiran
Land (20)
4x Aether Hub
2x Cinder Glade
7x Forest
4x Game Trail
3x Mountain
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Shock
Sorcery (4)
4x Attune with Aether
Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Not sure if I have enough energy productions, but I'm aiming for "enough" rather than an abundance. Also think I should cut down on the Lathnu Hellion's; they're great in most matchups unless your opponent goes bigger than you (read: G/B Counters). Drawing too many can sometimes be a nuisance.
Heart of Kiran might seem odd given my comments about Aethersphere Harvester, but it gets the nod because of the extra power and vigilance. It's also great with Chandra, Torch of Defiance (which makes me think, do I just want more Chandra?).
Lifecrafter's Bestiary could or perhaps should also be a SB card, but it's a card I have liked in the main. It also works well with Rishkar, Peema Renegade.
No sideboard yet, but I'll probably play some Blossoming Defense (control), Natural Obsolescence (Vehicles/Aetherworks etc), Goldnight Castigator (control and/or I'm just faster) and Kari Zev's Expertise (for decks that go big).
Edit: Just had another thought about my deck and the list above I think is what I'm going with.
Link to the G/R energy list:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=111141
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired