The Temur version can counter Emrakul (Ceremonious Rejection) or Aetherworks (Rejection, Negate, etc) and has some ability to beat Emrakul (mostly by bouncing with Jace). Winning before your opponent has a chance to cast Emrakul (in the absence of counters) is definitely harder though.
After taking Aberfoyle's pummeler deck for a spin (4-1 friendly league mtgo) I have to say that it feels like playing the best draft deck ever. Also that having the Bristling Hydra on my side of the board is much more fun than the reverse.
The problem with the Pummeler version is that it trades consistency for explosiveness in my view. That's why you see it 5-0 MTGO events more often, it's very cheap to buy the deck and there are a lot of people playing it, and if you just need to 'have it' for 5 rounds then there will be times where you do manage.
When you're taking the deck to a day-long 7+ round tournament though or even a GP, suddenly you need to 'have it' so much more often that the odds of that happening decrease dramatically.
I don't know, it's not the most inconsistent thing in the world. If you're a little careful with the pump spells it doesn't take much of a stumble by the opponent for you to get them. I think any deck that spits out semi-frequent free wins is worth at least a little attention.
To me one of the big issues is that the curve is clunky. If you look at the RB aggro list you have eight 1-drops (Courier + Apprentice), eight 2-drops (copter and scrounger), four three drops (pia) and four four drops (Bloodhall Priest). The pummeler shell seems to naturally want a bunch of 2-drops (servant, brawler, and cub). I'm not sure it's right to play an aggro deck with no 1-drops but the available choices are underwhelming. Maybe it's worth taking Bomat Courier for a spin. The hand refill threat is nice and it does play well with Built to Smash.
After taking Aberfoyle's pummeler deck for a spin (4-1 friendly league mtgo) I have to say that it feels like playing the best draft deck ever. Also that having the Bristling Hydra on my side of the board is much more fun than the reverse.
Glad to hear you did well with the deck and are happy with your results. Only changes I'd make today is to add in a Rush of Adrenaline or two in there and cut down on Built to Smash. Would like to hear if you've made improvements since then. Cheers!
The problem with the Pummeler version is that it trades consistency for explosiveness in my view. That's why you see it 5-0 MTGO events more often, it's very cheap to buy the deck and there are a lot of people playing it, and if you just need to 'have it' for 5 rounds then there will be times where you do manage.
When you're taking the deck to a day-long 7+ round tournament though or even a GP, suddenly you need to 'have it' so much more often that the odds of that happening decrease dramatically.
This is true but I feel the same logic could be applied to any other deck. One of the big advantages of the Electrostatic Pummeler deck is that it is still able to finish without the combo due to cards that go big and spells that allow up to pump and trample. However, the better argument is the difference of skill level: the combo takes relatively little to no skill to be able to play and run successfully. At larger events we expect that there will be a highly skilled and competitive pool of players running consistently tested decklists and I believe that both these two factors in the equation are reasons why past 5-0 this deck may not be able to top 8.
I like playing the mid-range version because of although it is fun to play the combo version, the strategy is repetitively like any other aggressive deck. So if you are an aggro player, by all means pummeler is the deck for you. If you want some interaction and a skill-based playstyle, then the midrange versions is your better bet dependent on your variation and your local meta/if you play online.
To me one of the big issues is that the curve is clunky. If you look at the RB aggro list you have eight 1-drops (Courier + Apprentice), eight 2-drops (copter and scrounger), four three drops (pia) and four four drops (Bloodhall Priest). The pummeler shell seems to naturally want a bunch of 2-drops (servant, brawler, and cub). I'm not sure it's right to play an aggro deck with no 1-drops but the available choices are underwhelming. Maybe it's worth taking Bomat Courier for a spin. The hand refill threat is nice and it does play well with Built to Smash.
I feel the same way about the 2-drops, it kinda seems that the deck crams way too many that its a bit overkill. My instinct tells me there is something we need in the 1-drop department to make the deck go faster although by running Bomat Courier and Inventor's Apprentice we lose some of our consistency. Also we don't have as many Artifact targets as RB so that is also a potential issue and risk. Maybe the answer is to run Courier in place of a 2-drop as a potential draw engine when we exhaust our hand, but I also feel there's potential to that in the Pummeler combo as well to improve consistency.
So maybe this basic shell here with Courier for more consistency with Smash, sideboard is super rough though:
Question for the R/G Energy Aggro folks: Would Nature's Way be a good card for budget builds? I don't see it pop up on the decks lists very often and I wonder why it gets left at home.
My only loss in standard was Temur Aetherworks and it was pretty close(Chris Anderson). I enjoyed the ability to win out of nowhere and making my opponents make terrible blocks while also just being a decent midrange deck sometimes. Of course sometimes you just win on turn 4 with Pummeler. It was a great choice for that particular tournament. The Arlinn Kord was pretty unnecessary in the main deck and I think maybe I won once with the Uncaged Furys, so I would probably change those three slots to something else. I beat multiple Aetherworks decks, multiple delirium decks, mardu vehicles once and U/W flash once as well.
The problem with the Pummeler version is that it trades consistency for explosiveness in my view. That's why you see it 5-0 MTGO events more often, it's very cheap to buy the deck and there are a lot of people playing it, and if you just need to 'have it' for 5 rounds then there will be times where you do manage.
When you're taking the deck to a day-long 7+ round tournament though or even a GP, suddenly you need to 'have it' so much more often that the odds of that happening decrease dramatically.
After taking Aberfoyle's pummeler deck for a spin (4-1 friendly league mtgo) I have to say that it feels like playing the best draft deck ever. Also that having the Bristling Hydra on my side of the board is much more fun than the reverse.
Glad to hear you did well with the deck and are happy with your results. Only changes I'd make today is to add in a Rush of Adrenaline or two in there and cut down on Built to Smash. Would like to hear if you've made improvements since then. Cheers!
Built to Smash has definitely been underperforming. I've been having decent success with this main board:
I pulled the Servants because I never felt like I wanted to really ramp into stuff. I like having every creature demand an answer. One of the nice things about the Courier is that it's a bit of a lightning rod since most opponents freak out over you potentially drawing 4-5 new cards. My favorite pump target is the Bristling Hydra since it almost always turns them into direct damage against your opponent.
I've felt pretty good about my games against UR control, BG delirium, and RG Marvel. The one that doesn't feel so good is UW Flash. If they play anything into Reflector Mage into Gideon I'm not really sure what to do. Is there a standard sideboard plan against them?
The other deck that styled all over me was the Wescoe Wb Weenie deck. They might have just had crazy good hands in the one match we played. On the other hand, I've noticed pummeler doesn't play defense well so a deck that puts you back on your heels creates problem. I'm not sure if the solution is a midrangey sideboard or somehow going more aggro.
My only loss in standard was Temur Aetherworks and it was pretty close(Chris Anderson). I enjoyed the ability to win out of nowhere and making my opponents make terrible blocks while also just being a decent midrange deck sometimes. Of course sometimes you just win on turn 4 with Pummeler. It was a great choice for that particular tournament. The Arlinn Kord was pretty unnecessary in the main deck and I think maybe I won once with the Uncaged Furys, so I would probably change those three slots to something else. I beat multiple Aetherworks decks, multiple delirium decks, mardu vehicles once and U/W flash once as well.
Pretty similar, look to it in the above post. I prefer to have the walkers in the sb to go bigger in some matchups. I agree that uncaged fury is a win more card ( larger than life is way better ), but I like the two copies. How are doing 19 lands? I had some problems and went to 20
I really didn't have too many problems with 19 lands but I think 20 is completely reasonable if that is your preference. I did mull a bit but this deck mulligans pretty well in my opinion. The blue splash in the SB was def worth it as I can see you never want to lose to Aetherworks as well! I'll be sticking with it until the next set for sure!
After taking Aberfoyle's pummeler deck for a spin (4-1 friendly league mtgo) I have to say that it feels like playing the best draft deck ever. Also that having the Bristling Hydra on my side of the board is much more fun than the reverse.
Glad to hear you did well with the deck and are happy with your results. Only changes I'd make today is to add in a Rush of Adrenaline or two in there and cut down on Built to Smash. Would like to hear if you've made improvements since then. Cheers!
Built to Smash has definitely been underperforming. I've been having decent success with this main board:
I pulled the Servants because I never felt like I wanted to really ramp into stuff. I like having every creature demand an answer. One of the nice things about the Courier is that it's a bit of a lightning rod since most opponents freak out over you potentially drawing 4-5 new cards. My favorite pump target is the Bristling Hydra since it almost always turns them into direct damage against your opponent.
I've felt pretty good about my games against UR control, BG delirium, and RG Marvel. The one that doesn't feel so good is UW Flash. If they play anything into Reflector Mage into Gideon I'm not really sure what to do. Is there a standard sideboard plan against them?
The other deck that styled all over me was the Wescoe Wb Weenie deck. They might have just had crazy good hands in the one match we played. On the other hand, I've noticed pummeler doesn't play defense well so a deck that puts you back on your heels creates problem. I'm not sure if the solution is a midrangey sideboard or somehow going more aggro.
I'm having fun as well drawing off of Courier. Uncaged Fury is doing work I want to run 4 Lathnu Hellion's maindeck now.
I'm having fun as well drawing off of Courier. Uncaged Fury is doing work I want to run 4 Lathnu Hellion's maindeck now.
I'm going to try Smuggler's Copter over the Longtusk Cub. Cub is sweet if it runs unchecked but it's awful against Reflector Mage. I kind of want to fit a Pia Nalaar or two in there too. It's two bodies in one card, the pump plays well with the pummeler, and the falter effect can be useful. OTOH it's much slower than the Hellion.
As far as generic anti-UW sideboard tech goes, these are the cards that spring to mind for me:
Anything else? Radiant Flames maybe? Gideon is a beast but I still feel like playing Devour in Flames is going too deep. Even if you do get to replay an Aether Hub for synergy.
My only loss in standard was Temur Aetherworks and it was pretty close(Chris Anderson). I enjoyed the ability to win out of nowhere and making my opponents make terrible blocks while also just being a decent midrange deck sometimes. Of course sometimes you just win on turn 4 with Pummeler. It was a great choice for that particular tournament. The Arlinn Kord was pretty unnecessary in the main deck and I think maybe I won once with the Uncaged Furys, so I would probably change those three slots to something else. I beat multiple Aetherworks decks, multiple delirium decks, mardu vehicles once and U/W flash once as well.
I'm having fun as well drawing off of Courier. Uncaged Fury is doing work I want to run 4 Lathnu Hellion's maindeck now.
I'm going to try Smuggler's Copter over the Longtusk Cub. Cub is sweet if it runs unchecked but it's awful against Reflector Mage. I kind of want to fit a Pia Nalaar or two in there too. It's two bodies in one card, the pump plays well with the pummeler, and the falter effect can be useful. OTOH it's much slower than the Hellion.
As far as generic anti-UW sideboard tech goes, these are the cards that spring to mind for me:
Anything else? Radiant Flames maybe? Gideon is a beast but I still feel like playing Devour in Flames is going too deep. Even if you do get to replay an Aether Hub for synergy.
the result wasn't what i desired. in 10 games i won 2 times only, and one's because he got land screwed.
notes:
1. Servant of the Conduit became worse because it doesn't ramp up to bigger threats anymore like Verdurous Gearhulk]. it would have been nice if it could crew Copter all the time, but of course the chance of the two being on the field at the same time's not large.
2. Spell Queller became better because it could exile all the spells in the deck.
3. when there's no discard outlet to enable Madness, Fiery Temper was really bad, especially if it's to be used just to kill Selfless Spirit. on a side note, harnessed Lightning was just as bad vs Selfless Spirit, as my opponent could just sacrifice it when i target it and i gain no Energy. no fault of Fiery Temper, i suppose: Selfless Spirit is just an unfairly good card in a very synergistic deck.
4. Smuggler's Copter and Key to the City were ok. didn't particularly impress me. they just were average cards in the deck.
in conclusion, i think if one's going aggro with R/G energy, might as well go for the Pummeler version, as it can win out of nowhere, and Selfless Spirit, Ally tokens and other stuff hardly matter to pumped up trampling creatures.
one could possibly go for an R/G Aggro with more burn (4x Harnessed Lightning, 4x Incendiary Flow, 4x Fiery Temper, 2x Lightning Axe) to get rid of blockers and have reach but i won't have the chance to test that this week anymore.
Playing to the board early is important, as any RW Vehicles deck can tell you. They smash up UW Flash simply because they so efficiently get under them. Because GR Energy Midrange starts the curve at 2, you can often get behind and leave yourself susceptible to Reflector Mage making your game impossible. 2 is not a starting point of the curve in many successful aggro decks so I don't see why it would be now. I sort of feel stupid for never really making this observation before, but that's just the reality of playing 2/2s on the draw.
Anyway, I've been away from the thread for the past 2-3 weeks because I've been either playing a RG Madness brew (Noose Constrictor, Temper, Courier, Nerd Ape, Copter, Incorrigible Youths etc.) or I've been working on or playing Wescoe's GW Humans.
There are synergies in this deck but the games are just too much work to win. You have to squeeze as much value out of your cards as possible while your opponent can play fast and loose but still be favored since they're playing GB or UW. The card quality has got to improve or Gruul midrange/aggro just isn't worth playing.
I'd recommend people play GR Aetherworks, if you wish to continue Gruuling people while having a shot at winning. It barely costs anything to switch your deck over.
I, like all of you, love playing big beatdown decks that curve out at 4 or 5; or sometimes 6 or 7 if that's what the format is about. The Gruul cards just don't currently exist for this to be feasible. Either that or the meta has to shift drastically. Notice that UB spotremoval.dec is picking up steam, so I'd keep Bristling Hydra on the backburner until you see your shop infested with Grasp of Darkness and Spell Shrivel.
Yeah, I think that's right. I had Radiant Flames in there as a holdover from your old list but it's a real nonbo with 1 and 2 drops. Not horrible with copter but everybody else runs copters too. I've been very happy with this list on modo:
Basically I look to race in game one with value creatures. I use pump spells as needed to shorten the clock. If I get some hits in early with the one and two drops then a keyed or larger than life Hydra is a very short clock. Even an uncaged Voltaic Brawler is 10 points of trample that the opponent often doesn't see coming. Key and Copter are also nice for card filtering.
And of course if the opponent leaves themselves open to it, or if there's no other choice, then I can also try and steal the game with an enormous pummeler. It puts them in a bit of a bind. Even when the hulk just stays home and crews copters the opponent has to hold back resources to deal with it that they would otherwise use to win the race. If they tap out and the pummeler survives (via blossoming defense or because they think they have enough blockers) then they can very easily just die.
I love Dispel, btw. It lets you push through counter magic and functions as an extra Blossoming Defense that can hit stuff like Blessed Alliance. It's not quite as terrific as it used to be in a world with Stasis Snare and Spell Queller but it's still sweet in the right matchup.
After boarding the Hulk Smash plan is more of a decoy but the opponent still has to respect it. Even just a Blossoming Defense in hand can represent a quick twelve points of damage very easily if they don't.
Overall the deck has been fun to pilot and I've had solid results so far.
Some very nice posts in the thread. Thanks Lugger for your insight. I know G/R is not tier 1, but it can be fun especially since my LGS there are not a lot of net deckers and people run rogue decks mostly.
Good start:
t1- bomat or apprentice 1dmg (if bomat)
t2- copter 1 dmg from bomat or 2 from apprentice
t3- apprentice + bushwhacker 10 dmg (4 from copter, 3 appren, 3 bush, bomat or apprentice pilots)
t4- cruiser 5 + 3 copter _ whatever else = 8+ total
So we can get a turn 4 win, theoretically.
Everybody knows you can't spell "suicide aggro" without "electrostatic pummeler"! Well, some of the letters anyway.
In all seriousness, I think the pummeler version is competitive. The added bonus is that people get very salty when they lose to it. I ran the version above (-1 pia, -1 uncaged, +2 harnessed main) to 4-1 in a competitive league (losing to UR control and beating Mardu vehicles, Wb humans, Wu humans, and BG delirium).
If you want to bushwhack I think you really want Voltaic Brawler over the cub. He is miles better as an attacker early. I would also play Scrapheap Scrounger over some number of Harnessed Lightning/Bristling Hydra/land. The apprentice needs artifacts and the deck desperately needs low drops so you can surge out the bushwhacker. I'd even try to wedge in some Falkenrath Gorger or Kessig Prowler action just to max out the early beats and bushwhack opportunities.
It would be nice if there were other decent anthem effects but sadly no matter how many draft games it wins for me I don't think Start Your Engines is constructed playable.
Some very nice posts in the thread. Thanks Lugger for your insight. I know G/R is not tier 1, but it can be fun especially since my LGS there are not a lot of net deckers and people run rogue decks mostly.
on Sunday I'll have a PPTQ and probabily I'll play this deck. I've played this deck for a while, I hate UW Flash and don't have 4 Flayers for BG, but I'm not so sure it'll have the consistancy for 5 turns + eventually Top8.
This is the list I'm playing now
I'm working on the sideboard, in particular on the Sideboard. The Cruiser is a great addiction. Comes in with Haste, has trample for little blocker and is resilient to sorcery speed removal.
Postside I change gameplan siding out Plummer and/or some pumping spell for some utilities depending from the MU. Visions is great Vs BG and I'll never renounce to them.
I'm working on the sideboard, in particular on the Sideboard. The Cruiser is a great addiction. Comes in with Haste, has trample for little blocker and is resilient to sorcery speed removal.
Postside I change gameplan siding out Plummer and/or some pumping spell for some utilities depending from the MU. Visions is great Vs BG and I'll never renounce to them.
Key to the City has been pretty amazing for me. In a world with Thraben Inspectors, Ishkanah, Avacyn, and Torrential Gearhulk, it's nice to have the guarantee of punching through. The filtering can be clutch too.
Natural State is good sideboard tech against anybody with copters plus any other target (e.g. Stasis Snare).
I'm working on the sideboard, in particular on the Sideboard. The Cruiser is a great addiction. Comes in with Haste, has trample for little blocker and is resilient to sorcery speed removal.
Postside I change gameplan siding out Plummer and/or some pumping spell for some utilities depending from the MU. Visions is great Vs BG and I'll never renounce to them.
Key to the City has been pretty amazing for me. In a world with Thraben Inspectors, Ishkanah, Avacyn, and Torrential Gearhulk, it's nice to have the guarantee of punching through. The filtering can be clutch too.
[quote from="Darksch81 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/established-standard/757218-rgx-energy-aggro?comment=612"]Natural State is good sideboard tech against anybody with copters plus any other target (e.g. Stasis Snare).
Your 4/3+ with functional hexproof doesn't do anything if it's not killing your opponent. Key lets you do that without actually going down cards and filtering away lands.
I've gone to two main and one in the side. The extra key comes in against any deck running Ishkanah and when I expect a board stall. Drawing multiple keys isn't exciting but they do filter themselves away so it isn't the worst.
I'm pretty sure that Natural State hits Quarantine Field unless they've changed the rules on calculating CMC. In general I think the plan has to be to win before the heavy duty artifacts can swing the game rather than to try to answer them. Neither version of RG (midrange or pummeler) really wants to be answering opposing threats. We want to be presenting bigger or quicker threats. We do need some answers but we don't win with answers, we win with threats. Harnessed Lightning is great because it's so versatile. Natural State is great because it's so cheap: Natural State + Brawler is a much better turn than Appetite.
I'm kind of drifting away from the blue splash sideboard plan for the same reason. I feel like it's better to accept that they will sometimes win a game with a turn 4 or 5 emrakul and just focus on winning the rest of them. Basically try to push their win percentage down to the old "all in" combo decks from the Pro Tour. Their sideboard plan against aggro is to shave Emrakuls, anyway. I don't like trying to get blue mana, hold blue mana open, and spike a ceremonious rejection when I could just be focusing on murdering their face.
The last match I had against RG marvel went like this:
Game one: he taps out on his turn five for vessel + puzzleknot, my turn five a mega-pummeler kills him from 20
Game two: turn six Emrakul
Game three: he dies on turn six from a 9 power double striking hydra
That's not proof of anything but I think if you want to beat Marvel you'd best do it early. If you get to turn eight or nine you're probably losing. Destroying the Marvel after it's had a spin isn't great.
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When you're taking the deck to a day-long 7+ round tournament though or even a GP, suddenly you need to 'have it' so much more often that the odds of that happening decrease dramatically.
To me one of the big issues is that the curve is clunky. If you look at the RB aggro list you have eight 1-drops (Courier + Apprentice), eight 2-drops (copter and scrounger), four three drops (pia) and four four drops (Bloodhall Priest). The pummeler shell seems to naturally want a bunch of 2-drops (servant, brawler, and cub). I'm not sure it's right to play an aggro deck with no 1-drops but the available choices are underwhelming. Maybe it's worth taking Bomat Courier for a spin. The hand refill threat is nice and it does play well with Built to Smash.
This is true but I feel the same logic could be applied to any other deck. One of the big advantages of the Electrostatic Pummeler deck is that it is still able to finish without the combo due to cards that go big and spells that allow up to pump and trample. However, the better argument is the difference of skill level: the combo takes relatively little to no skill to be able to play and run successfully. At larger events we expect that there will be a highly skilled and competitive pool of players running consistently tested decklists and I believe that both these two factors in the equation are reasons why past 5-0 this deck may not be able to top 8.
I like playing the mid-range version because of although it is fun to play the combo version, the strategy is repetitively like any other aggressive deck. So if you are an aggro player, by all means pummeler is the deck for you. If you want some interaction and a skill-based playstyle, then the midrange versions is your better bet dependent on your variation and your local meta/if you play online.
I feel the same way about the 2-drops, it kinda seems that the deck crams way too many that its a bit overkill. My instinct tells me there is something we need in the 1-drop department to make the deck go faster although by running Bomat Courier and Inventor's Apprentice we lose some of our consistency. Also we don't have as many Artifact targets as RB so that is also a potential issue and risk. Maybe the answer is to run Courier in place of a 2-drop as a potential draw engine when we exhaust our hand, but I also feel there's potential to that in the Pummeler combo as well to improve consistency.
So maybe this basic shell here with Courier for more consistency with Smash, sideboard is super rough though:
4 Bomat Courier
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Electrostatic Pummeler
2 Lathnu Hellion
4 Bristling Hydra
Spells (18)
3 Built to Smash
4 Attune with Aether
4 Blossoming Defense
2 Harnessed Lightning
3 Larger than Life
2 Uncaged Fury
4 Aether Hub
4 Game Trail
2 Cinder Glade
6 Forest
4 Mountain
2 Ceremonious Rejection
4 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Lathnu Hellion
1 Arlinn Kord
3 Negate
1 Island
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=110078
My only loss in standard was Temur Aetherworks and it was pretty close(Chris Anderson). I enjoyed the ability to win out of nowhere and making my opponents make terrible blocks while also just being a decent midrange deck sometimes. Of course sometimes you just win on turn 4 with Pummeler. It was a great choice for that particular tournament. The Arlinn Kord was pretty unnecessary in the main deck and I think maybe I won once with the Uncaged Furys, so I would probably change those three slots to something else. I beat multiple Aetherworks decks, multiple delirium decks, mardu vehicles once and U/W flash once as well.
Sorry, above post was meant to quote Cronax.
Built to Smash has definitely been underperforming. I've been having decent success with this main board:
4 Aether Hub
4 Game Trail
2 Cinder Glade
2 Mountain
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Electrostatic Pummeler
4 Bristling Hydra
4 Blossoming Defense
4 Larger than Life
3 Built to Smash
3 Uncaged Fury
2 Key to the City
I pulled the Servants because I never felt like I wanted to really ramp into stuff. I like having every creature demand an answer. One of the nice things about the Courier is that it's a bit of a lightning rod since most opponents freak out over you potentially drawing 4-5 new cards. My favorite pump target is the Bristling Hydra since it almost always turns them into direct damage against your opponent.
I've felt pretty good about my games against UR control, BG delirium, and RG Marvel. The one that doesn't feel so good is UW Flash. If they play anything into Reflector Mage into Gideon I'm not really sure what to do. Is there a standard sideboard plan against them?
The other deck that styled all over me was the Wescoe Wb Weenie deck. They might have just had crazy good hands in the one match we played. On the other hand, I've noticed pummeler doesn't play defense well so a deck that puts you back on your heels creates problem. I'm not sure if the solution is a midrangey sideboard or somehow going more aggro.
I really didn't have too many problems with 19 lands but I think 20 is completely reasonable if that is your preference. I did mull a bit but this deck mulligans pretty well in my opinion. The blue splash in the SB was def worth it as I can see you never want to lose to Aetherworks as well! I'll be sticking with it until the next set for sure!
As far as generic anti-UW sideboard tech goes, these are the cards that spring to mind for me:
Anything else? Radiant Flames maybe? Gideon is a beast but I still feel like playing Devour in Flames is going too deep. Even if you do get to replay an Aether Hub for synergy.
would love to see your sideboard strategies.
4x Longtusk Cub
4x Smuggler's Copter
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Tireless Tracker
4x Bristling Hydra
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Fiery Temper
2x Key to the City
4x Game Trail
2x Cinder Glade
6x Forest
6x Mountain
4x Aether Hub
the result wasn't what i desired. in 10 games i won 2 times only, and one's because he got land screwed.
notes:
1. Servant of the Conduit became worse because it doesn't ramp up to bigger threats anymore like Verdurous Gearhulk]. it would have been nice if it could crew Copter all the time, but of course the chance of the two being on the field at the same time's not large.
2. Spell Queller became better because it could exile all the spells in the deck.
3. when there's no discard outlet to enable Madness, Fiery Temper was really bad, especially if it's to be used just to kill Selfless Spirit. on a side note, harnessed Lightning was just as bad vs Selfless Spirit, as my opponent could just sacrifice it when i target it and i gain no Energy. no fault of Fiery Temper, i suppose: Selfless Spirit is just an unfairly good card in a very synergistic deck.
4. Smuggler's Copter and Key to the City were ok. didn't particularly impress me. they just were average cards in the deck.
in conclusion, i think if one's going aggro with R/G energy, might as well go for the Pummeler version, as it can win out of nowhere, and Selfless Spirit, Ally tokens and other stuff hardly matter to pumped up trampling creatures.
one could possibly go for an R/G Aggro with more burn (4x Harnessed Lightning, 4x Incendiary Flow, 4x Fiery Temper, 2x Lightning Axe) to get rid of blockers and have reach but i won't have the chance to test that this week anymore.
Pia Nalaar would probably be better here.
Playing to the board early is important, as any RW Vehicles deck can tell you. They smash up UW Flash simply because they so efficiently get under them. Because GR Energy Midrange starts the curve at 2, you can often get behind and leave yourself susceptible to Reflector Mage making your game impossible. 2 is not a starting point of the curve in many successful aggro decks so I don't see why it would be now. I sort of feel stupid for never really making this observation before, but that's just the reality of playing 2/2s on the draw.
Anyway, I've been away from the thread for the past 2-3 weeks because I've been either playing a RG Madness brew (Noose Constrictor, Temper, Courier, Nerd Ape, Copter, Incorrigible Youths etc.) or I've been working on or playing Wescoe's GW Humans.
There are synergies in this deck but the games are just too much work to win. You have to squeeze as much value out of your cards as possible while your opponent can play fast and loose but still be favored since they're playing GB or UW. The card quality has got to improve or Gruul midrange/aggro just isn't worth playing.
I'd recommend people play GR Aetherworks, if you wish to continue Gruuling people while having a shot at winning. It barely costs anything to switch your deck over.
I, like all of you, love playing big beatdown decks that curve out at 4 or 5; or sometimes 6 or 7 if that's what the format is about. The Gruul cards just don't currently exist for this to be feasible. Either that or the meta has to shift drastically. Notice that UB spotremoval.dec is picking up steam, so I'd keep Bristling Hydra on the backburner until you see your shop infested with Grasp of Darkness and Spell Shrivel.
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Electrostatic Pummeler
1 Pia Nalaar
4 Bristling Hydra
4 Blossoming Defense
2 Built to Smash
4 Larger than Life
3 Uncaged Fury
2 Key to the City
8 Forest
2 Mountain
4 Game Trail
4 Aether Hub
2 Cinder Glade
1 Island
4 Fevered Visions
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Dispel
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 Natural State
And of course if the opponent leaves themselves open to it, or if there's no other choice, then I can also try and steal the game with an enormous pummeler. It puts them in a bit of a bind. Even when the hulk just stays home and crews copters the opponent has to hold back resources to deal with it that they would otherwise use to win the race. If they tap out and the pummeler survives (via blossoming defense or because they think they have enough blockers) then they can very easily just die.
Post board I will shave pump spells for whatever interaction looks good. I typically pull both Built to Smash and one Uncaged Fury and then take out however many Larger than Life I need to in order to make room. Creature matchups see the Harnessed Lightning come in, most copter matchups see Natural State, Marvel and Panharmonicon see Ceremonious Rejection come in, and control sees Dispel and Fevered Visions.
I love Dispel, btw. It lets you push through counter magic and functions as an extra Blossoming Defense that can hit stuff like Blessed Alliance. It's not quite as terrific as it used to be in a world with Stasis Snare and Spell Queller but it's still sweet in the right matchup.
After boarding the Hulk Smash plan is more of a decoy but the opponent still has to respect it. Even just a Blossoming Defense in hand can represent a quick twelve points of damage very easily if they don't.
Overall the deck has been fun to pilot and I've had solid results so far.
If going low and fast (I will try this, this weekend) What about reckless bushwhacker with a fleetwheel cruiser finisher?
How would you sideboard this glass cannon aggro? Various removal and maybe chandra, torch of defiance?
Maybe something like:
4 inventor's apprentice
4 smuggler's copter
4 longtusk cub
3 reckless bushwhacker
1 pia nalaar
4 bristling hydra
4 fiery temper
2 key to the city
2 fleetwheel cruiser
as a start point?
Good start:
t1- bomat or apprentice 1dmg (if bomat)
t2- copter 1 dmg from bomat or 2 from apprentice
t3- apprentice + bushwhacker 10 dmg (4 from copter, 3 appren, 3 bush, bomat or apprentice pilots)
t4- cruiser 5 + 3 copter _ whatever else = 8+ total
So we can get a turn 4 win, theoretically.
In all seriousness, I think the pummeler version is competitive. The added bonus is that people get very salty when they lose to it. I ran the version above (-1 pia, -1 uncaged, +2 harnessed main) to 4-1 in a competitive league (losing to UR control and beating Mardu vehicles, Wb humans, Wu humans, and BG delirium).
If you want to bushwhack I think you really want Voltaic Brawler over the cub. He is miles better as an attacker early. I would also play Scrapheap Scrounger over some number of Harnessed Lightning/Bristling Hydra/land. The apprentice needs artifacts and the deck desperately needs low drops so you can surge out the bushwhacker. I'd even try to wedge in some Falkenrath Gorger or Kessig Prowler action just to max out the early beats and bushwhack opportunities.
It would be nice if there were other decent anthem effects but sadly no matter how many draft games it wins for me I don't think Start Your Engines is constructed playable.
4 Bomat Courier
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Lathnu Hellion
2 Pia Nalaar
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Spells (11)
3 Built to Smash
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Smuggler's Copter
1 Key to the city
Lands (21)
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Game Trail
1 Cinder Glade
8 Mountain
1 Foreboding Ruins
3 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1 Lightning Axe
2 Lost Legacy
2 Natural State
1 Ruinous Path
3 Transgress the Mind
on Sunday I'll have a PPTQ and probabily I'll play this deck. I've played this deck for a while, I hate UW Flash and don't have 4 Flayers for BG, but I'm not so sure it'll have the consistancy for 5 turns + eventually Top8.
This is the list I'm playing now
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Electrostatic Pummeler
4 Bristling Hydra
2 Longtusk Cub
2 Verdurous Gearhulk
2 Fleetwheel Cruiser
4 Blossoming Defense
3 Larger than Life
2 Built to Smash
2 Uncaged Fury
4 Harnessed Lightning
8 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Game Trail
4 Aether Hub
1 Cinder Glade
2 Botanical Sanctum
1 Island
3 Fevered Visions
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Dispel
2 Hijack
4 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Appetite for Unnatural
I'm working on the sideboard, in particular on the Sideboard. The Cruiser is a great addiction. Comes in with Haste, has trample for little blocker and is resilient to sorcery speed removal.
Postside I change gameplan siding out Plummer and/or some pumping spell for some utilities depending from the MU. Visions is great Vs BG and I'll never renounce to them.
Natural State is good sideboard tech against anybody with copters plus any other target (e.g. Stasis Snare).
Would you try them md or from sideboard?
Natural State is a great card, but I prefer something more versatile. Appetite is good also vs Quarantine Field, Aetherworks Marvel, Skysovereign, Consul Flagship. Otherwise there isn't a single card Vs Marvel
MD.
Your 4/3+ with functional hexproof doesn't do anything if it's not killing your opponent. Key lets you do that without actually going down cards and filtering away lands.
I'm pretty sure that Natural State hits Quarantine Field unless they've changed the rules on calculating CMC. In general I think the plan has to be to win before the heavy duty artifacts can swing the game rather than to try to answer them. Neither version of RG (midrange or pummeler) really wants to be answering opposing threats. We want to be presenting bigger or quicker threats. We do need some answers but we don't win with answers, we win with threats. Harnessed Lightning is great because it's so versatile. Natural State is great because it's so cheap: Natural State + Brawler is a much better turn than Appetite.
I'm kind of drifting away from the blue splash sideboard plan for the same reason. I feel like it's better to accept that they will sometimes win a game with a turn 4 or 5 emrakul and just focus on winning the rest of them. Basically try to push their win percentage down to the old "all in" combo decks from the Pro Tour. Their sideboard plan against aggro is to shave Emrakuls, anyway. I don't like trying to get blue mana, hold blue mana open, and spike a ceremonious rejection when I could just be focusing on murdering their face.
The last match I had against RG marvel went like this: