Negate is mainly for Aetherworks Marvel players that have suddenly flooded the LGS. also could work well against Mardu/Jeskai Vehicles's planeswalkers and Fumigate post board.
i lowered the curve to avoid situations where i desperately need to develop my board but need to hold Negate mana up. i removed the mana dorks because from experience they get killed outright anyway and are bad topdecks mid to late game. my first Amonkhet Standard deck didn't have mana dorks and it still went fine at FNM.
now i'm thinking if i should get rid of Rogue Refiner and/or Tireless Tracker for Rhonas and Hazoret, which are in successful G/R Aggro decks.
Negate is mainly for Aetherworks Marvel players that have suddenly flooded the LGS. also could work well against Mardu/Jeskai Vehicles's planeswalkers and Fumigate post board.
i lowered the curve to avoid situations where i desperately need to develop my board but need to hold Negate mana up. i removed the mana dorks because from experience they get killed outright anyway and are bad topdecks mid to late game. my first Amonkhet Standard deck didn't have mana dorks and it still went fine at FNM.
now i'm thinking if i should get rid of Rogue Refiner and/or Tireless Tracker for Rhonas and Hazoret, which are in successful G/R Aggro decks.
stick the refiners, move the trackers to the sideboard for those grindy games and add 2 Rhonas in the main board. Don't bother with Hazoret. Yes, doge-god activates Rhonas and is a solid beater but after using a G/R aggro deck that ran both Rhonas and Hazoret in GP Manila, I found that Hazoret doesn't activate easily. I only had one game that had an activated Hazoret, and that was a mull to 4. Most of the time, doge was only there to activate Rhonas, not serve as a threat to the board. Yes, a 5 to the face hurts opponents but what use is a 5/4 that won't do anything unless I ditch card advantage.
stick the refiners, move the trackers to the sideboard for those grindy games and add 2 Rhonas in the main board. Don't bother with Hazoret. Yes, doge-god activates Rhonas and is a solid beater but after using a G/R aggro deck that ran both Rhonas and Hazoret in GP Manila, I found that Hazoret doesn't activate easily. I only had one game that had an activated Hazoret, and that was a mull to 4. Most of the time, doge was only there to activate Rhonas, not serve as a threat to the board. Yes, a 5 to the face hurts opponents but what use is a 5/4 that won't do anything unless I ditch card advantage.
are you Pinoy as well? how did you fare in GP Manila? i wasn't able to join.
A few Changes i would do now are cutting the Heart of Kiran and maybe Rhonas. Sure the trample ability looks good on Paper but beeing the aggressive Deck you rarely have the tim/mana to use him effectivly. Also he is a conditional beater and i want my creature turn sideways nearly all the time. I would Main the 4 Lathnu Hellion's that card is nuts. Sure it get chumped but i usually was able to produce enough energy to at least get 3 attacks with it. As for the SB i would add at least 1 Heroic intervention. Maybe Disposses or Transgress for the Marvel MU but i think we should stay on the aggressive Route. I thought about a 1of Bloodlust Inciter
Any advises? Since this isn't really an expensive Deck and won't face any crucials losses for the next rotation i want to keep playing it for a while.
maybe remove Manglehorn for the SB and replace with Magma Spray against aggro matchups. i have read Cut//Ribbons could be good against BG so if that deck's prevalent in your local meta it's an option.
Played this in Amsterdam at the GP and managed to get my first Day2 on Standard with a 7:2 (2byes) facing 4 Marvel Decks and beating each of them (Day2 went not so good with 1:5 losing to 3 Marvels^^). The Deck felt amazing and the Lathnu Hellion's were my MVPs of Day1. I boarded them in every single Match and i just regretted to not have them Mainboard. Heart of Kiran andRhonas the Indomitable were always boarded out since they are to slow for the Marvel MU and even BG or Mardu. The Hellion is just a solid beefy beater which isn't eays for the Opp to trade off. Against Marvel Deliverance and Marvel also went in of course but it felt that you are better of just pressuring them instead of hoping to stick a Manglehorn + Deliverance. I usually just won because they couldnt handle the hellion Beatdown quick enough. Sweltering Suns sure is a good SB Option i just didnt hit the right MUs to really evaluate it correctly. It got boarded in 1 time against Mardu on D2 and wasnt enough (still was close thanks to it). it should stay in the Board. I'm rarely playing Standard (only GPs if they are close enough i dont like the format) but this Deck just took me by Storm.
A few Changes i would do now are cutting the Heart of Kiran and maybe Rhonas. Sure the trample ability looks good on Paper but beeing the aggressive Deck you rarely have the tim/mana to use him effectivly. Also he is a conditional beater and i want my creature turn sideways nearly all the time. I would Main the 4 Lathnu Hellion's that card is nuts. Sure it get chumped but i usually was able to produce enough energy to at least get 3 attacks with it. As for the SB i would add at least 1 Heroic intervention. Maybe Disposses or Transgress for the Marvel MU but i think we should stay on the aggressive Route. I thought about a 1of Bloodlust Inciter
Any advises? Since this isn't really an expensive Deck and won't face any crucials losses for the next rotation i want to keep playing it for a while.
Could you (or anyone else) give a brief sideboarding plan? I'm looking to pick this deck up. I'd really appreciate it!
are you Pinoy as well? how did you fare in GP Manila? i wasn't able to join.
yep. hahaha. went 5-4, with the loss on round 9, which was a real bummer. my matches were Jeskai Control, Temur Marvel and the rest of the 7 games Mono-B Zombies. all of my 4 losses were all zombies. i feel that deck is the worst match-up for G/R. 2 activated gods and 2 hydras can't do anything against 7 zombie tokens beefed-up by lords and anthems. early game was a total wreck, on the draw or on the play. early creatures get grasped or pushed, and at the late game, the gods get dark salvation-ed or discarded by transgress the mind. by the time a creature successfully survives on the board, there are 4 or more zombies. I went with this deck btw.
I'm satisfied with it's performance overall, especially transforming the deck into R/G Pummeler. My sole Marvel opponent said that the post board was not fair since he did not expect that the deck would transform into a combo-aggro-ish deck. I decided to cut the Hazoret and replace it with a third Magma Spray.
are you Pinoy as well? how did you fare in GP Manila? i wasn't able to join.
yep. hahaha. went 5-4, with the loss on round 9, which was a real bummer. my matches were Jeskai Control, Temur Marvel and the rest of the 7 games Mono-B Zombies. all of my 4 losses were all zombies. i feel that deck is the worst match-up for G/R. 2 activated gods and 2 hydras can't do anything against 7 zombie tokens beefed-up by lords and anthems. early game was a total wreck, on the draw or on the play. early creatures get grasped or pushed, and at the late game, the gods get dark salvation-ed or discarded by transgress the mind. by the time a creature successfully survives on the board, there are 4 or more zombies. I went with this deck btw.
I'm satisfied with it's performance overall, especially transforming the deck into R/G Pummeler. My sole Marvel opponent said that the post board was not fair since he did not expect that the deck would transform into a combo-aggro-ish deck. I decided to cut the Hazoret and replace it with a third Magma Spray.
it can but you have to wait until the combo pieces are in your hand. but before that happens, i have to stall the board and attack little by little.
EDIT:
I went with this deck in two FNMs (afternoon pod and evening pod), it went 4-0 and 3-1 respectively. it can stand toe to toe with zombies, which i feel is my worst match up with the current deck and also with marvel hoping the first spin is a whiff. i feel it can use some improvements.
My teammate keeps on pestering me to mainboard Manglehorn to respect Marvel and Vehicles, which is the meta right now. I find it choking most of the time. Yes, it buys me a turn or two but I feel that a turn 4 or 5 Ulamog from Aetherworks Marvel is practically a game over. With Vehicles, I can out aggro them as long as I survive turn 4 and put a controlling aspect post board. I'm also deciding to change Manglehorn to Dissenter's Deliverance since I can always cycle it when it's useless. What do you guys think?
second, isn't Channeler Initiate a bit redundant because of Attune with Aether and Servant of the Conduit?
third, Manglehorn seems to be better mainboard than Dissenter's Deliverance since it's still a 2/2 body.
last, how did the gods and Heart of Kiran perform for you? some like them in their list, some don't.
went 2-2 with a netdecked Temur Energy list. seems like i've been having a hard time with Temur Energy.
Channeler isn't redundant since i get a 3/4 beater at the end of the day and i get to ramp two turns to a most while holding up for a blossoming defense, a rhonas pump, a hazoret burn or a removal. How many Manglehorns should I maindeck? Is two enough? might remove Heart of Kiran from the deck but the gods will stay. I'm held up on the beatdowns with Heart on the play and my early creatures can't crew it. It's better in a Jund deck with Scrapheap Scrounger.
I have been running temur energy very similar to the one that took first in Baltimore. I have actually been having really good results against most every deck including Marvel. My worst matchup so far has been the Mardu vehicles decks that started playing spell queller. The game is pretty much over if you go second and they turn 2 Heart of Kiran. You have to draw into or have Harnessed Lightning. Has anyone else had trouble in this matchup or any proposed changes? I have considered running a 1 or 2 of Dissenter's Deliverance main board.
I played at a local PPTQ over the weekend, and drew into top 8...I beat mardu vehicles, mono black zombies and blue/white flash to lose first round to zombies.
A lot changes now that Marvel is banned...decks will either go more aggro, or more control. I still think R/G has an excellent chance of beating any deck, due to trample damage. A couple of observations:
With marvel banned, I like Appetite for the Unnatural instead of Manglehorn...instant speed and life gain is good against vehicles and, most importantly, Liliana's Mastery. You also might see more cast out or stasis snare if blue/white flash gains in popularity, and we have nothing to deal with enchantments.
Zombies going wide is a big issue...I suggest at least three sweepers (suns, or radiant flames) sideboard.
I'm always conflicted on Voltaic Brawler...he's a good two drop, but he's pushed easy, he eats energy, and he just seems fragile...Greenbelt Rampager or Lathnu Hellion might be better in that spot, but trample is a good option...just not sure.
I'm thinking maybe two heroic intervention either main or side board...card is really good.
I played the pummler version, and I can tell you, it just wins games...either they have removal in hand, or they just lose...it's super powerful. I hit a player for over 80 trample damage...living the dream.
I've always loved Voltaic Brawler, but I think he requires a saturation of one/two drops to play in a world with Fatal Push, and he works well in a world with Heart of Kiran. It's a deck that goes low to the ground and possibly plays Jund to get their own Fatal Push alongside other black cards.
For those who play the RG Pummler version, do you mind elaborating a little bit on how to side against the most communs matches (Zombie and mardu veichles)?
I've been winning game 1 most of the times, but then I end up loosing game 2 and 3. I have a feeling that i'm over sideboarding and removing too many creatures, I would appreciate some tips and examples.
My thoughts are: Since the opponent will side more kills, Electrostatic Pummeler being the easy target, I've been taking all of them out and putting 4 lathnu hellion in. Then, I usually bring in artificat removal or magma spray (sometimes both when facing mardu veichles and also 2 plummet)becase of Avacyn), heroic intervention for protection, so basically everything...so I end up having to remove creatues and pump spells.
Problem with our deck is it's generally non-interactive with other decks (I play three harness lightning main)...I'd say you want to side in more spot removal (magma spray is your best bet...hits most of zombie's board, and exiles), and as I said, I'm thinking three sweepers sideboard, since it's relevant against both zombies and vehicles, and we can get our creatures beyond 3 toughness (i.e. hydra, cub, etc).
I also am liking Appetite for the Unnatural for vehicles, as its instant speed, and deals with enchantments too.
Private Mod Note
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"I hope to have such a death—lying in triumph upon the broken bodies of those who slew me."
—Radha, Keldon warlord
since Marvel decks are gone, i feel that there is going to be a resurgence of B/G decks and vehicles. do you feel R/G variants should change their mainboard and sideboard plans as well? i mean Ishkana is now back, and so are a lot of grasps and pushes in this meta.
i dropped by my LGS yesterday and got me 4 copies. the players who saw me thought i was joking when i said i'll try to fit the card in my deck for next FNM.
Channeler isn't redundant since i get a 3/4 beater at the end of the day and i get to ramp two turns to a most while holding up for a blossoming defense, a rhonas pump, a hazoret burn or a removal. How many Manglehorns should I maindeck? Is two enough? might remove Heart of Kiran from the deck but the gods will stay. I'm held up on the beatdowns with Heart on the play and my early creatures can't crew it. It's better in a Jund deck with Scrapheap Scrounger.
regarding Channeler, i can certainly see the advantage. regarding Manglehorn, now that Marvel's banned (YES!) maybe no longer needed for maindeck, except perhaps if the meta becomes vehicles heavy. or maybe if Walking Ballista and Gearhulks become more common.
if BG and Vehicles become more common, Cut//Ribbons could be maindeck material, even if not a full set.
since Marvel decks are gone, i feel that there is going to be a resurgence of B/G decks and vehicles. do you feel R/G variants should change their mainboard and sideboard plans as well? i mean Ishkana is now back, and so are a lot of grasps and pushes in this meta.
Splashing will be necessary to deal with a proliferation of snake and vehicles.
since Marvel decks are gone, i feel that there is going to be a resurgence of B/G decks and vehicles. do you feel R/G variants should change their mainboard and sideboard plans as well? i mean Ishkana is now back, and so are a lot of grasps and pushes in this meta.
Splashing will be necessary to deal with a proliferation of snake and vehicles.
splashing Blue for Negate suddenly became unappealing in the face of creature-based decks. could still be good against Vehicles decks that turn to planeswalkers and Fumigate post board.
Do people discuss the Temur Energy, more tempo/mid-range based deck on this thread? I can't find a thread for the Temur Energy list. I'm just getting into the deck and hoping to have some tips on building for which metas and etc. I like Elder deep fiend in the list, it feels like the deck needs at least 1 threat bigger than Glorybringer in those grindy games that stall out. Which deck is it weakest to and which is it strongest against? I'm still testing and contemplating buying the remaining pieces.
joke's on them.
after consideration and goldfishing i ended up with this deck:
3 Bristling Hydra
3 Glorybringer
4 Greenbelt Rampager
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Rogue Refiner
2 Tireless Tracker
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Attune with Aether
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 Magma Spray
3 Negate
Lands 21
4 Aether Hub
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Forest
1 Island
4 Mountain
4 Game Trail
Negate is mainly for Aetherworks Marvel players that have suddenly flooded the LGS. also could work well against Mardu/Jeskai Vehicles's planeswalkers and Fumigate post board.
i lowered the curve to avoid situations where i desperately need to develop my board but need to hold Negate mana up. i removed the mana dorks because from experience they get killed outright anyway and are bad topdecks mid to late game. my first Amonkhet Standard deck didn't have mana dorks and it still went fine at FNM.
now i'm thinking if i should get rid of Rogue Refiner and/or Tireless Tracker for Rhonas and Hazoret, which are in successful G/R Aggro decks.
stick the refiners, move the trackers to the sideboard for those grindy games and add 2 Rhonas in the main board. Don't bother with Hazoret. Yes, doge-god activates Rhonas and is a solid beater but after using a G/R aggro deck that ran both Rhonas and Hazoret in GP Manila, I found that Hazoret doesn't activate easily. I only had one game that had an activated Hazoret, and that was a mull to 4. Most of the time, doge was only there to activate Rhonas, not serve as a threat to the board. Yes, a 5 to the face hurts opponents but what use is a 5/4 that won't do anything unless I ditch card advantage.
are you Pinoy as well? how did you fare in GP Manila? i wasn't able to join.
maybe remove Manglehorn for the SB and replace with Magma Spray against aggro matchups. i have read Cut//Ribbons could be good against BG so if that deck's prevalent in your local meta it's an option.
Could you (or anyone else) give a brief sideboarding plan? I'm looking to pick this deck up. I'd really appreciate it!
Retired
Modern
Burn
Legacy
Burn
yep. hahaha. went 5-4, with the loss on round 9, which was a real bummer. my matches were Jeskai Control, Temur Marvel and the rest of the 7 games Mono-B Zombies. all of my 4 losses were all zombies. i feel that deck is the worst match-up for G/R. 2 activated gods and 2 hydras can't do anything against 7 zombie tokens beefed-up by lords and anthems. early game was a total wreck, on the draw or on the play. early creatures get grasped or pushed, and at the late game, the gods get dark salvation-ed or discarded by transgress the mind. by the time a creature successfully survives on the board, there are 4 or more zombies. I went with this deck btw.
3 Greenbelt Rampager
4 Longtusk Cub
3 Servant of the Conduit
4 Voltaic Brawler
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
1 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Bristling Hydra
2 Glorybringer
3 Heart of Kiran
4 Attune with Aether
2 Magma Spray
4 Harnessed Lightning
3 Blossoming Defense
Lands
4 Aether Hub
4 Cinder Glade
2 Game Trail
2 Sheltered Thicket
6 Forest
3 Mountain
3 Prowling Serpopard
1 Sweltering Suns
2 Heroic Intervention
2 Radiant Flames
3 Electrostatic Pummeler
4 Invigorated Rampage
I'm satisfied with it's performance overall, especially transforming the deck into R/G Pummeler. My sole Marvel opponent said that the post board was not fair since he did not expect that the deck would transform into a combo-aggro-ish deck. I decided to cut the Hazoret and replace it with a third Magma Spray.
—Radha, Keldon warlord
i see. can't the deck combo through Zombies?
it can but you have to wait until the combo pieces are in your hand. but before that happens, i have to stall the board and attack little by little.
EDIT:
I went with this deck in two FNMs (afternoon pod and evening pod), it went 4-0 and 3-1 respectively. it can stand toe to toe with zombies, which i feel is my worst match up with the current deck and also with marvel hoping the first spin is a whiff. i feel it can use some improvements.
3 Greenbelt Rampager
4 Channeler Initiate
4 Servant of the Conduit
3 Heart of Kiran
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
3 Lathnu Hellion
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Bristling Hydra
3 Glorybringer
4 Attune with Aether
4 Harnessed Lightning
3 Blossoming Defense
Lands
4 Aether Hub
4 Cinder Glade
2 Game Trail
2 Sheltered Thicket
6 Forest
3 Mountain
3 Magma Spray
3 Prowling Serpopard
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
2 Arlinn Kord
2 Heroic Intervenion
2 Manglehorn
2 Radiant Flames
My teammate keeps on pestering me to mainboard Manglehorn to respect Marvel and Vehicles, which is the meta right now. I find it choking most of the time. Yes, it buys me a turn or two but I feel that a turn 4 or 5 Ulamog from Aetherworks Marvel is practically a game over. With Vehicles, I can out aggro them as long as I survive turn 4 and put a controlling aspect post board. I'm also deciding to change Manglehorn to Dissenter's Deliverance since I can always cycle it when it's useless. What do you guys think?
what's your deck? mainboard and sideboard?
first, congrats on your good record.
second, isn't Channeler Initiate a bit redundant because of Attune with Aether and Servant of the Conduit?
third, Manglehorn seems to be better mainboard than Dissenter's Deliverance since it's still a 2/2 body.
last, how did the gods and Heart of Kiran perform for you? some like them in their list, some don't.
went 2-2 with a netdecked Temur Energy list. seems like i've been having a hard time with Temur Energy.
Channeler isn't redundant since i get a 3/4 beater at the end of the day and i get to ramp two turns to a most while holding up for a blossoming defense, a rhonas pump, a hazoret burn or a removal. How many Manglehorns should I maindeck? Is two enough? might remove Heart of Kiran from the deck but the gods will stay. I'm held up on the beatdowns with Heart on the play and my early creatures can't crew it. It's better in a Jund deck with Scrapheap Scrounger.
the link isn't working, can you post the whole deck here?
Another weekend.
Another loss to Marvel in the semis.
One of these PPTQs...
In other news, I think these lists are great but here what I'm looking at moving forward.
4x Longtusk Cub
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Lathnu Hellion
3x Khenra Charioteer
1x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
3x Bristling Hydra
3x Glorybringer
3x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4x Harnessed Lightning
2x Magma Spray
4x Game Trail
3x Cinder Glade
4x Blooming Marsh
3x Forest
6x Moutain
1x Swamp
3x Dispossess
3x Unlicensed Disintegration
2x Magma Spray
1x Sweltering Suns
3x Blossoming Defense
2x Tireless Tracker
1x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
A lot changes now that Marvel is banned...decks will either go more aggro, or more control. I still think R/G has an excellent chance of beating any deck, due to trample damage. A couple of observations:
With marvel banned, I like Appetite for the Unnatural instead of Manglehorn...instant speed and life gain is good against vehicles and, most importantly, Liliana's Mastery. You also might see more cast out or stasis snare if blue/white flash gains in popularity, and we have nothing to deal with enchantments.
Zombies going wide is a big issue...I suggest at least three sweepers (suns, or radiant flames) sideboard.
I'm always conflicted on Voltaic Brawler...he's a good two drop, but he's pushed easy, he eats energy, and he just seems fragile...Greenbelt Rampager or Lathnu Hellion might be better in that spot, but trample is a good option...just not sure.
I'm thinking maybe two heroic intervention either main or side board...card is really good.
I played the pummler version, and I can tell you, it just wins games...either they have removal in hand, or they just lose...it's super powerful. I hit a player for over 80 trample damage...living the dream.
—Radha, Keldon warlord
In decks that sometimes ramp with Servant of the Conduit I feel that running the Temur colors with a focus on 3-5 drops is the way to go. A world without Aetherworks Marvel is going to be interesting since I don't feel we will need nearly as many or if at all Negate in the main. Confiscation Coup, Rogue Refiner, and Baral's Expertise may all still be worth it though.
I've been winning game 1 most of the times, but then I end up loosing game 2 and 3. I have a feeling that i'm over sideboarding and removing too many creatures, I would appreciate some tips and examples.
My thoughts are: Since the opponent will side more kills, Electrostatic Pummeler being the easy target, I've been taking all of them out and putting 4 lathnu hellion in. Then, I usually bring in artificat removal or magma spray (sometimes both when facing mardu veichles and also 2 plummet)becase of Avacyn), heroic intervention for protection, so basically everything...so I end up having to remove creatues and pump spells.
main deck pretty close to this, except:https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/669880#paper
-1 Longtusk Cub
-1 Rhonas the Indomitable
+2 Fling
Sideboard:
4 Magma Spray
4 lathnu hellion
1 heroic intervantion
1 sweltering suns
1 Release the Gremlins
2 Dissenter's Deliverance
2 plummet
I'm trying to get 1 or 2 sweltering suns.
I appreciate any comment or suggestions. Thanks
I also am liking Appetite for the Unnatural for vehicles, as its instant speed, and deals with enchantments too.
—Radha, Keldon warlord
i dropped by my LGS yesterday and got me 4 copies. the players who saw me thought i was joking when i said i'll try to fit the card in my deck for next FNM.
regarding Channeler, i can certainly see the advantage. regarding Manglehorn, now that Marvel's banned (YES!) maybe no longer needed for maindeck, except perhaps if the meta becomes vehicles heavy. or maybe if Walking Ballista and Gearhulks become more common.
if BG and Vehicles become more common, Cut//Ribbons could be maindeck material, even if not a full set.
Splashing will be necessary to deal with a proliferation of snake and vehicles.
I'd recommend black for Unlicensed Disintegration -- a catchall that isn't a huge tempo negative.
4x Longtusk Cub
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Lathnu Hellion
2x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
2x Khenra Charioteer
3x Bristling Hydra
3x Glorybringer
4x Attune with Aether
2x Magma Spray
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Cinder Glade
2x Game Trail
1x Evolving Wilds
4x Blooming Marsh
1x Swamp
3x Forest
6x Mountain
3x Unlicensed Disintegration
2x Rhonas the Indomitable
2x Magma Spray
1x Cut // Ribbons
2x Sweltering Suns
2x Tireless Tracker
1x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
2x Blossoming Defense
splashing Blue for Negate suddenly became unappealing in the face of creature-based decks. could still be good against Vehicles decks that turn to planeswalkers and Fumigate post board.
still, Rogue Refiner is a good card and Confiscation Coup is sweet against those creature-based decks.
also, Elder Deep Fiend could be great against those creature-based decks.
GW Death and Taxes WG