If in so many matchups you are boarding out a land and into a more aggressive stance would it make sense to just shift the maindeck to be lower to the ground and more aggressive? There's the old adage that if you always side in a card maybe it should be main decked but I think that holds true for larger shifts as well.
I think this "adage" has come up a lot and debunked by many people. Sometimes every postboard game requires something to be added to the maindeck that isn't relevant in game ones. Consider the meta: 1 Affinity, 7 R Burn. You definitely do not want artifact destruction game 1 (it's dead 7/8 the time), but--assuming all of the R Burn decks have Dragon Claw in the SB--you definitely want artifact destruction out of the board.
Hi All
So I last picked up a deck of magic cards in 1994 shortly after the game first came out. I was in high-school, and had some fun with it, but college was on the horizon and I didn't pay terribly much attention to the game. I was focused on grades, the opposite sex, beer, etc.
In the years after college, after coming to grips with the real-world, I began to turn back to gaming. While I still dabbled in fantasy on occasion, I tended to prefer competitive 2-player wargames such as ASL, Paths of Glory, Empire of the Sun etc. Probably no one on these forums plays many historical wargames, but they are something I enjoy quite a bit.
Fast forward to a few months ago. On a lark, because I was getting tired of playing pokemon with my 8 year old, I bought us some planeswalker starter decks at our LGS (Nissa & Chandra Kaledesh).
I was extremely impressed with the design, the art, and the gameplay. Wow, was this really what magic had become? This was intricate! This was complex! And it clearly led to a tight competitive experience.
All three of those things fit me to a T. So I dug into it some more, and I was absolutely blown away by the magic eco-system. The amount of content, the maturity and quality of the content was truly astonishing. This is a pricey game, but it is a premium product, and clearly the economy of the game is very healthy. So down the rabbit hole I went.
Which is all a very long winded way of positing this: I want to play constructed/standard at our LGS, but I have never played anyone over the age of 8 f2f. I bought into a deck that was a pretty good fit for cards I already have, but I have no idea how to pilot this sucker! I guess I could buy the same cards on MTGO but that would be a bit of a blow to the wallet.
Don't suppose someone could take a look at this deck which I believe can be considered R/B Aggro, and give me some piloting and sideboarding tips ??
Welcome back! I am merging this with the relevant thread because Standard Main is not meant to have specific decklists. Hopefully it will also get you more feedback. - hoser2
PS: I also tweaked your decklist above with the intention of helping.
If in so many matchups you are boarding out a land and into a more aggressive stance would it make sense to just shift the maindeck to be lower to the ground and more aggressive? There's the old adage that if you always side in a card maybe it should be main decked but I think that holds true for larger shifts as well.
I did shift the mainboard down to 21 lands in my build before I changed to the one that I took the PPTQ in my last post. The reason I went back up to 22 lands in this case because it curves just a little bit higher with one Skysovereign in the main and 2 ob nixilis in the sideboard.
SO...MARDU VEHICLES AND 4C SAHEELI.
What is everyone having the most success with when it comes to boarding in against these decks? The most trouble I am having right now is how to sideboard against mardu. Game 1 is easy but I'm still not sure whether to try and go over or under game 2.
Honestly that's a super solid list based upon what is currently played. The only feedback I have on the deck is that I think you have 1 too many land at 24. Considering you top out at 4, you could definitely run 23 and maybe even 22 with 1 in the side for when you bring in Ob, Kalitas, etc.
As for Sideboarding, it's all about your matchup. You bring in 3 Transgress and Ob and Goblin for Control. Fatal and Kalitas for aggro, Release for Artifact combos and Mardu (side it out g3 if they go into Mardu Walkers)
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How can we truly be free, if we are held in the bondage of clothing?
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
Find that deck a bit irritating as if they are on the ropes there is always a chance they get a Felidar or Saheeli on the river and it's game over. Played against that deck more than any other on MTGO.
Just happened to me, had a guy down to 1 life, playing that list.
What's a good strategy against 4 color copycat in general!
Shock is an easy solution to the deck. I really like To the Slaughter and run 3 sb. Transgress beats the deck too. Lost Legacy guarantees they can't combo, but I don't think it's good enough to play any more.
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How can we truly be free, if we are held in the bondage of clothing?
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
Still cant lose to Jeskai Saheeli. I feel like you have to monumentally misplay vs that deck to lose that matchup.
The deck continues to perform as I have top 8'd every tournament I have played with this deck including 3 pptqs and like 4-5 fnms.
Only change I have made since this tournament is change 1 mountain to a swamp because since I now mainboard the fatal pushes(btw they were amazing except in the match where I played against ub control). And I plan on tweaking my sideboard to making a mostly 2 deck sideboard plan with a a few catchall cards.
Kalitas is really strong and can take over a game. implement was really good as it prevents saheeli combo completely. Will likely cut the shock since its not that good vs mardu in the post board games. Gonti never came in all day long so he also might get the axe although I like him vs 4c saheeli but unsure currently.
This is an interesting take on the deck and it makes a lot of sense. What does B/R benefit from that Mardu doesn't have? Not much, but going into Colorless as our 3rd "color" could be an interesting direction for the deck for sure.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How can we truly be free, if we are held in the bondage of clothing?
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
I legit have never ever seen that card before but it seems almost decent? I would say that Fleetwheel Cruiser is a stronger card overall ultimately for that slot. I'm not sure it's good enough and definitely not comparative to Thought-Knot but it's a thing to consider.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How can we truly be free, if we are held in the bondage of clothing?
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
Yeah, I'd have to go with Thought Knot too. For one, there are moderately good lists running it. But even f we are in the market for a 5/3 hast, Fleetwheel is just a better option. Dust Stalker had its 15 minutes of fame before Oath was released. Now there are just better options at that cmc.
It could be good depending on how much graveyard play and scroungers we see as the format shifts. It's shame it can't go the dome and be an improved shock. Scarab Feast also looks decent but that could be more modern material. It looks like white is getting some bombs that will be tough on R/B.
hey, guys, i understand you're interested in the upcoming set Amonkhet, but please let us not discuss new cards until the set is fully revealed. forum rule. thanks!
I've only recently come back to the game and haven't been playing this deck long. What's the purpose of Pia Nalaar in so many builds? It looks like a decent card on paper, but in my experience it's never really felt like I'm dropping a threat. I'm attempting to keep this deck on a fast clock, and for every cast to put pressure on the opponent. Pia Nalaar is fairly slow and the utility of stopping a blocker or adding 1-2 damage only seems to be a good use of resources in a situation where you're already winning the game. You might get that win a turn quicker, and you get two small bodies for a 3-drop, but I would almost rather be casting any other card in the deck. So, how are you guys playing Pia that makes it a semi-staple?
I prefer Glint-Sleeve Siphoner for some card draw and fuel rather than a token body. It can usually get a few draws if dropped and backed up with threats that the opponent must deal with first, the menace can get through some decent damage early in the game. I expect it to take Forerunner's slot in rotation, unless Amonkhet brings some goodies. I would possibly introduce a little more energy manipulation to the deck if Siphoner became a choice 2-drop, but that's all food for thought down the road.
I think Yahenni even provides a better 3-drop for the main deck, to be honest.
i agree on the whole pia issue. ive actually replaced her with eternal scourge. i love the synergy with scrapheap. i havent played with glint sleeve yet but i was considering using kari zev when forerunner leaves
I have a set but haven't gave Kari Zev a chance, sort of forgot she existed. If she was a 2/1 instead of a 1/3 she'd be so much more appealing. The Scourge/Scrounger synergy seems like it would be fantastic in a longer game against control matchups. I'll have to play around with that, likely as a sideboard option though. I'm still feeling out the sideboard, the only real staples being Transgress and Release the Gremlins.
my sideboard i run 2 gonti, 2 ob nixiliis, 3 release the gremlins (but considering mb 1), 2 transgress, 2 goblin dark dwellers, 2 lost legacy and 2 harsh scrutiny
If in so many matchups you are boarding out a land and into a more aggressive stance would it make sense to just shift the maindeck to be lower to the ground and more aggressive? There's the old adage that if you always side in a card maybe it should be main decked but I think that holds true for larger shifts as well.
So I last picked up a deck of magic cards in 1994 shortly after the game first came out. I was in high-school, and had some fun with it, but college was on the horizon and I didn't pay terribly much attention to the game. I was focused on grades, the opposite sex, beer, etc.
In the years after college, after coming to grips with the real-world, I began to turn back to gaming. While I still dabbled in fantasy on occasion, I tended to prefer competitive 2-player wargames such as ASL, Paths of Glory, Empire of the Sun etc. Probably no one on these forums plays many historical wargames, but they are something I enjoy quite a bit.
Fast forward to a few months ago. On a lark, because I was getting tired of playing pokemon with my 8 year old, I bought us some planeswalker starter decks at our LGS (Nissa & Chandra Kaledesh).
I was extremely impressed with the design, the art, and the gameplay. Wow, was this really what magic had become? This was intricate! This was complex! And it clearly led to a tight competitive experience.
All three of those things fit me to a T. So I dug into it some more, and I was absolutely blown away by the magic eco-system. The amount of content, the maturity and quality of the content was truly astonishing. This is a pricey game, but it is a premium product, and clearly the economy of the game is very healthy. So down the rabbit hole I went.
Which is all a very long winded way of positing this: I want to play constructed/standard at our LGS, but I have never played anyone over the age of 8 f2f. I bought into a deck that was a pretty good fit for cards I already have, but I have no idea how to pilot this sucker! I guess I could buy the same cards on MTGO but that would be a bit of a blow to the wallet.
Don't suppose someone could take a look at this deck which I believe can be considered R/B Aggro, and give me some piloting and sideboarding tips ??
3 Bomat Courier
4 Forerunner of Slaughter
3 Inventor's Apprentice
2 Pia Nalaar
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Weldfast Engineer
Artifacts
4 Heart of Kiran
2 Fleetwheel Cruiser
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Incendiary Flow
2 Shock
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
Land
4 Foreboding Ruins
10 Mountain
4 Smoldering Marsh
6 Swamp
4 Fatal Push
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Release the Gremlins
3 Transgress the Mind
Welcome back! I am merging this with the relevant thread because Standard Main is not meant to have specific decklists. Hopefully it will also get you more feedback. - hoser2
PS: I also tweaked your decklist above with the intention of helping.
Click here.
4 Metallic Mimic
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Bloodhall Priest
4 Falkenrath Gorger
2 Gifted Aetherborn
3 Hanweir Garrison
3 Heir of Falkenrath
2 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
3 Olivia, Mobilized for War
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Incendiary Flow
Lands (22)
6 Mountain
6 Swamp
4 Foreboding Ruins
2 Hanweir Battlements
4 Smoldering Marsh
2 Fleetwheel Cruiser
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
3 Fatal Push
2 Grasp of Darkness
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Lost Legacy
I did shift the mainboard down to 21 lands in my build before I changed to the one that I took the PPTQ in my last post. The reason I went back up to 22 lands in this case because it curves just a little bit higher with one Skysovereign in the main and 2 ob nixilis in the sideboard.
SO...MARDU VEHICLES AND 4C SAHEELI.
What is everyone having the most success with when it comes to boarding in against these decks? The most trouble I am having right now is how to sideboard against mardu. Game 1 is easy but I'm still not sure whether to try and go over or under game 2.
4 Bomat Courier
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Weldfast Engineer
2 Pia Nalaar
Other Spells:
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Fatal Push
1 Shock
3 Incendiary Flow
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Heart of Kiran
4 Smoldering Marsh
4 Foreboding Ruins
8 Mountain
6 Swamp
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
3 Release the Gremlins
3 Transgress the Mind
2 Fatal Push
2 Shock
1 Swamp
And I'm liking the look of that vampires list. Might have to give it a go.
Honestly that's a super solid list based upon what is currently played. The only feedback I have on the deck is that I think you have 1 too many land at 24. Considering you top out at 4, you could definitely run 23 and maybe even 22 with 1 in the side for when you bring in Ob, Kalitas, etc.
As for Sideboarding, it's all about your matchup. You bring in 3 Transgress and Ob and Goblin for Control. Fatal and Kalitas for aggro, Release for Artifact combos and Mardu (side it out g3 if they go into Mardu Walkers)
Current Decks
Standard / Type 2
BRMidrange
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
What do I board in for 4-color copycat?
Find that deck a bit irritating as if they are on the ropes there is always a chance they get a Felidar or Saheeli on the river and it's game over. Played against that deck more than any other on MTGO.
Just happened to me, had a guy down to 1 life, playing that list.
What's a good strategy against 4 color copycat in general!
-having fun
Current Decks
Standard / Type 2
BRMidrange
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
This is my the list i used at the tournament
4 Bomat Courier
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Forerunner of Slaughter
3 Weldfast Engineer
3 Pia Nalaar
Other Spells:
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fatal Push
3 Incendiary Flow
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
3 Heart of Kiran
1 Fleetwheel Cruiser
4 Smoldering Marsh
4 Foreboding Ruins
10 Mountain
4 Swamp
2 Release the Gremlins
4 Transgress the Mind
2 Kalitas
2 Gonti
1 Incediary Flow
1 Implement of Combustion
1 To the Slaughter
1 Fatal Push
1 Shock
Still cant lose to Jeskai Saheeli. I feel like you have to monumentally misplay vs that deck to lose that matchup.
The deck continues to perform as I have top 8'd every tournament I have played with this deck including 3 pptqs and like 4-5 fnms.
Only change I have made since this tournament is change 1 mountain to a swamp because since I now mainboard the fatal pushes(btw they were amazing except in the match where I played against ub control). And I plan on tweaking my sideboard to making a mostly 2 deck sideboard plan with a a few catchall cards.
Kalitas is really strong and can take over a game. implement was really good as it prevents saheeli combo completely. Will likely cut the shock since its not that good vs mardu in the post board games. Gonti never came in all day long so he also might get the axe although I like him vs 4c saheeli but unsure currently.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Walking Ballista
3 Pia Nalaar
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Fatal Push
1 Shock
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Aethersphere Harvester
Lands:
4 Ruins of Oran-Rief
4 Aether Hub
4 Spire of Industry
1 Blighted Fen
3 Foreboding Ruins
6 Swamp
3 Mountain
1 Shock
1 Foreboding Ruins
3 Release the Gremlins
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Harnessed Lightning
2 Olivia, Mobilized for War
1 Rush of Vitality
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
This is an interesting take on the deck and it makes a lot of sense. What does B/R benefit from that Mardu doesn't have? Not much, but going into Colorless as our 3rd "color" could be an interesting direction for the deck for sure.
Current Decks
Standard / Type 2
BRMidrange
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I legit have never ever seen that card before but it seems almost decent? I would say that Fleetwheel Cruiser is a stronger card overall ultimately for that slot. I'm not sure it's good enough and definitely not comparative to Thought-Knot but it's a thing to consider.
Current Decks
Standard / Type 2
BRMidrange
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I've only recently come back to the game and haven't been playing this deck long. What's the purpose of Pia Nalaar in so many builds? It looks like a decent card on paper, but in my experience it's never really felt like I'm dropping a threat. I'm attempting to keep this deck on a fast clock, and for every cast to put pressure on the opponent. Pia Nalaar is fairly slow and the utility of stopping a blocker or adding 1-2 damage only seems to be a good use of resources in a situation where you're already winning the game. You might get that win a turn quicker, and you get two small bodies for a 3-drop, but I would almost rather be casting any other card in the deck. So, how are you guys playing Pia that makes it a semi-staple?
I prefer Glint-Sleeve Siphoner for some card draw and fuel rather than a token body. It can usually get a few draws if dropped and backed up with threats that the opponent must deal with first, the menace can get through some decent damage early in the game. I expect it to take Forerunner's slot in rotation, unless Amonkhet brings some goodies. I would possibly introduce a little more energy manipulation to the deck if Siphoner became a choice 2-drop, but that's all food for thought down the road.
I think Yahenni even provides a better 3-drop for the main deck, to be honest.